How do you think losing the AAA rating will effect you on a personal level?

[Deealee]

Yeah, but that's the problem with giving anyone the power to set their own salary - they're never very willing to consider cuts, no matter how necessary.

True dat!

 

[eliza61]

I think its a very good idea for people to have at least 2 weeks worth of emergency supplies even in good times. I live in a place that has 0 natural disasters and I still do this. Most of my inlaws live in Ca (earthquake country) and are so unprepared. I just don't get it. "There motto is don't worry be happy". You never now what can happen anywhere, and with any financial collapse there is a risk of civil unrest and its just good sense to be prepared at all times.

I don't think it's a mindset of "don't worry be happy" more of a mind set of informative preparing.
I lived through pretty much the worst civil unrest in the last century (vietnam and civil right) and even then you didn't need 2 weeks worth of emergency supplies. I think Katrina was about as horrible as it's gotten and that wasn't civil unrest.

I keep maybe 4 days worth of food in the house (not counting the can goods I store up) and maybe 100 bucks around.

I don't think we're going to turn into Somalia even with a "financial collapse".

Look at it this way, we've been hearing all about financial doom all weekend and here in NJ, life is pretty much going on as normal. Ocean city NJ is packed to the gills with tourist and not a one has mentioned the downgrading.

 

[padawans]

I don't think it's a mindset of "don't worry be happy" more of a mind set of informative preparing.
I lived through pretty much the worst civil unrest in the last century (vietnam and civil right) and even then you didn't need 2 weeks worth of emergency supplies. I think Katrina was about as horrible as it's gotten and that wasn't civil unrest.

I keep maybe 4 days worth of food in the house (not counting the can goods I store up) and maybe 100 bucks around.

I don't think we're going to turn into Somalia even with a "financial collapse".

Look at it this way, we've been hearing all about financial doom all weekend and here in NJ, life is pretty much going on as normal. Ocean city NJ is packed to the gills with tourist and not a one has mentioned the downgrading.

No, but this country has never experienced bad times, and it never hurts to be prepared. To go through life thinking nothing bad has ever happened here so it never will is fine I guess. This country has not been around very long. I think you have to take a look at what has happened in other countries that have sufferred a financial collapse such as Argentina .17 years ago Argentina was wealthier than USA. It has been pretty much destroyed. I think you will be surprised at how fast things can go south. Hopefully it never happens here, but it never hurts to be prepared. Btw the civil unrest of vietnam is nothing like the civil unrest that happens when people are hungry. There are many you tube videos of what happened in Argentina when it collapsed.

 

[SaraJayne]

No, but this country has never experienced bad times, and it never hurts to be prepared. To go through life thinking nothing bad has ever happened here so it never will is fine I guess. This country has not been around very long. I think you have to take a look at what has happened in other countries that have sufferred a financial collapse such as Argentina to understand what can happen. I think you will be surprised at how fast things can go south. Hopefully it never happens here, but it never hurts to be prepared. Btw the civil unrest of vietnam is nothing like the civil unrest that happens when people are hungry.

Correction ~ most of us in our lifetimes have never seen this country go through bad times.

They've been there in the past.

 

[ilovemk76]

No, but this country has never experienced bad times, and it never hurts to be prepared. To go through life thinking nothing bad has ever happened here so it never will is fine I guess. This country has not been around very long. I think you have to take a look at what has happened in other countries that have sufferred a financial collapse such as Argentina to understand what can happen. I think you will be surprised at how fast things can go south. Hopefully it never happens here, but it never hurts to be prepared.

Personally I think if that happens to the US the results you describel be worldwide.

Those who are planning for the collapse will be extremely surprised by how easy it will be for the non-prepared to take what they saved for and then all will be equal again. How can a family or two hold off hundreds or even thousands?

Those is cities are at the greatest risk since they cannot grow their own food. Those is the country, where more land is available, will fair far better.

Say I have two weeks worth of food, what do I do in the third week? I can't grow a cow that fast, certainly can't buy a full grown cow because it will cost too much, or get a chicken from chick to layer in just two weeks. No vegetable garden will be ready in two weeks or even 6 months if the disaster happens in the winter and you live in the north.

I am a planner but to me the preppers are living in fear.

I saw a show where a man had converted his pool into an ecosystem had grew tilapia fish. I loved that idea from a green point of view but how fast could those fish go once the neighbors found out and they were hunger?

 

[padawans]

Correction ~ most of us in our lifetimes have never seen this country go through bad times.

They've been there in the past.

Compared to what other countries have been through. I don't think so. People here think they are going through bad times if they can't afford a vacation.

 

[padawans]

Personally I think if that happens to the US the results you describel be worldwide.

Those who are planning for the collapse will be extremely surprised by how easy it will be for the non-prepared to take what they saved for and then all will be equal again. How can a family or two hold off hundreds or even thousands?

Those is cities are at the greatest risk since they cannot grow their own food. Those is the country, where more land is available, will fair far better.

Say I have two weeks worth of food, what do I do in the third week? I can't grow a cow that fast, certainly can't buy a full grown cow because it will cost too much, or get a chicken from chick to layer in just two weeks. No vegetable garden will be ready in two weeks or even 6 months if the disaster happens in the winter and you live in the north.

I am a planner but to me the preppers are living in fear.

I saw a show where a man had converted his pool into an ecosystem had grew tilapia fish. I loved that idea from a green point of view but how fast could those fish go once the neighbors found out and they were hunger?

I agree with you. I really don't spend much time worrying about the economy. I spend more time worrying about which resort I am going to stay at next year. I think its in important to know what can possibly happen so your not blindsided by things. I definetely don't recommend living in fear. There is only so much you can do. The rest is up to God and fate.

 

[eliza61]

Compared to what other countries have been through. I don't think so. People here think they are going through bad times if they can't afford a vacation.

Sure we have, we just had our fighting for democracy 200 years ago. Now much of whats happening to Africa can be attributed to corruption and terrorist more than any economic collapse.

Egypt, lbyia and other middle east countries are in unrest, not due to financial collapse but for the fight for Independance and democracy. They're sick of the wackadoodles controlling their countries. We've already been there, done that.

Civil war, WWII, depression, Vietnam, Civil rights, the 70's pretty much all tested us one way or another and yet we haven't sunk into anarchy yet. Heck the neo nazis and kkk have been planinng for a race meltdown since I was a little kid (50 years ago ).


Look at it this way. Walmart was still open today and pretty much I'd bet heavy money that they will be doing brisk business in the near future.

Basically my stance has always been the same. Get back to our roots. Live within your means, do not measure wealth by what a person has, save for a rainy day.

 

[disneybound31]

It is frustrating to live within ones means when the government is sooo off the charts when it comes to financial solvency...we spend less than what we earn, save a significant amount and pay all our debts in full...every day, every month, every year.

Why can't our government see fit to lean that way...I realize the financial plan/debt of a country is decidedly more complex than mine, but geez...

we have lived for more than 3 years with NO pay increase and on less than $50k a year for a family of 4. We manage to tithe, pay our mortgage and all bills on time and plan for our college/retirement future all the while budgeting a (not super expensive) vacay each year...we certainly do not live high off the hog and have everything our neighbors have, but we can sleep at night knowing that we are doing our best and being consciencious with what we have been given in this world...

I would like to see the big government officials take no pay raises for the next year (they would never agree to a cut) and get rid of frivolous perks, i.e. gym memberships paid by tax dollars...heck, when DH did not get a pay raise one year and cost of clothing/shoes went up as our children got older we cancelled our gym membership and started walking for exercise since we could no longer afford the gym each month. It's called sacrifice. We cut out restaurants except on special occasions, we drive our cars til they die, we wear our shoes until they actually wear out, we use the library, I CVS (lol), we tell the kids "no" more often...why can't our government say "no" more often? To other countries and to themselves?!

I know those kinds of cuts don't put a dent in our countrys debt, but it sure would go a long way with me in terms of restoring faith in the system if I heard of a few elected officials making some of the changes that most of us 'regular folk' employ when times get tough.

 

[Princesca]

I think it's wise to prepare for more than just 72 hours, but the Red Cross recommends starting with the 72 hour kit because it's an easier way to get your feet wet, and MOST common disasters, like a power outage, blizzard, etc., can be dealt with by first responders within that time frame.

Once prepared for 72 hours, I would look at two weeks. And once I had two weeks, I would look at a year, but I look at a year more as a guard against price inflation than anything I would probably ever need. As long as you buy what you'll use and use what you buy, I don't see a problem with stockpiling. Don't be that crazy person that has 250 toothbrushes in the closet, but a year's worth of toilet paper? Why not. Worst case scenario, you are covered against having to resort to Kleenex for a year.

 

[Colleen27]

Thanks for the website suggestions. I'll be sure to check those out. I agree about some of those prepping sites - they can be pretty hardcore. I suppose maybe it depends on the individual's personal circumstances but I just don't think it's going to get THAT bad. Then again, we live in an area that some of those hardcore preppers might consider a good place to bug out to - small town where lots of people still hunt, fish, keep a garden, and can their own veggies. I could see where if I were living in a big city, I might feel differently about it.

Btw, our situations are very similar. My DH sells building supplies for a living so I know about those seasonal ups and downs. Fortunately he is in management now but for years I was a SAHM and had to wait each month to see how much the commission check was going to be before I could really plan my budget. Of course, management has it's downside too - DH now has to be the one to tell people that they're being let go and he really hates that part of his job. And, of course, he's been laid off a few times himself over the years - twice just in the last 3 years due to businesses closing their doors.

Our situations are similar - We live in that same kind of town too, though a little too close to Detroit (about an hour away) to be a bug-out destination. It is a small town at the intersection of two rivers, and fishing and farming remain part of the fabric of the community. Even the hardware/sporting goods store has canning and preserving supplies, and walking around town you see a lot of kitchen gardens and some neat ways of using edible plants as landscaping.

I am a SAHM and do a fair bit of gardening and canning, though I also dabble in freelance writing and do a couple craft shows a year with whatever my crafting interest of the moment is to bring in a few extra bucks. DH started his company after a stretch where his employer eliminated health benefits so he'd find a new job that offered them, only to have the same thing happen. After the 3rd company eliminated their health insurance plan we decided that if we were going to be on our own for insurance we may as well be in business for ourselves.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Losing the AAA rating is significant. It is the first time in our history this has happened. While it is true that one of the agencies have downgraded us, there is forecasting that if our issues aren't resolved the other agencies will follow suit. We are in uncharted waters with no resolution on the table. If that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what will.

U.S. borrowing has topped 100% of the GDP.

China is in talks about a new global reserve currency to replace the dollar.

Somethings got to give.

BTW, Countries in economic turmoil include; Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland. And we are tied with them (IMF), bailing them out while we sink.

 

[padawans]

Sure we have, we just had our fighting for democracy 200 years ago. Now much of whats happening to Africa can be attributed to corruption and terrorist more than any economic collapse.

Egypt, lbyia and other middle east countries are in unrest, not due to financial collapse but for the fight for Independance and democracy. They're sick of the wackadoodles controlling their countries. We've already been there, done that.

Civil war, WWII, depression, Vietnam, Civil rights, the 70's pretty much all tested us one way or another and yet we haven't sunk into anarchy yet. Heck the neo nazis and kkk have been planinng for a race meltdown since I was a little kid (50 years ago ).


Look at it this way. Walmart was still open today and pretty much I'd bet heavy money that they will be doing brisk business in the near future.

Basically my stance has always been the same. Get back to our roots. Live within your means, do not measure wealth by what a person has, save for a rainy day.

Thats a pretty simplistic way to look at things. No offense, but I don't think you have a good understanding of what were facing. This is something this country has never faced before. The scope of what is going in the world is too complicated to even try to explain on these boards. I'm not trying to be condescending, but if you think whats going on in the global economy is nothing you might wan't todo a little more research. You can save as much as you wan't for a rainy day, but if your dollars are worthless they are worthless. When a currency fails it can happen very quickly.

 

[punkin]

Thats a pretty simplistic way to look at things. No offense, but I don't think you have a good understanding of what were facing. This is something this country has never faced before. The scope of what is going in the world is too complicated to even try to explain on these boards. I'm not trying to be condescending, but if you think whats going on in the global economy is nothing you might wan't todo a little more research. You can save as much as you wan't for a rainy day, but if your dollars are worthless they are worthless. When a currency fails it can happen very quickly.

Did you never hear of the Great Depression? We have gone through worse and we recovered...and we will recover...eventually.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Did you never hear of the Great Depression? We have gone through worse and we recovered...and we will recover...eventually.

"Eventually" is the operative word.



"The ailing US housing market passed a grim milestone in the first quarter of this year, posting a further deterioration that means the fall in house prices is now greater than that suffered during the Great Depression.

The remarkable thing about this downturn is that even though prices have fallen by more than in the Great Depression, the bottom has yet to be reached. We think that prices will fall by at least a further 3% this year, and perhaps even further next year.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28520.html

 

[eliza61]

Thats a pretty simplistic way to look at things. No offense, but I don't think you have a good understanding of what were facing. This is something this country has never faced before. The scope of what is going in the world is too complicated to even try to explain on these boards. I'm not trying to be condescending, but if you think whats going on in the global economy is nothing you might wan't todo a little more research. You can save as much as you wan't for a rainy day, but if your dollars are worthless they are worthless. When a currency fails it can happen very quickly.

But padawan,
Every event is some thing this country never faced before. We never had a civil war that almost DESTROYED the country before or after. We never had a depression before, we never had a world trade bombing before either. All these things were once in a life time occurances that we survived.

I have a deep understanding of what the global market is going through, I daresay as good if not better than most simply for the fact that I've got players in the European markets.


The interest rate on treasury bonds actually went down today, so all the doomsayers who said that uber inflation would take hold were wrong (so far, tomorrow is another day) Translation: inverstors were buying treasury bonds today as opposed to stocks so their faith in the dollar is still there. because t bills are back by the usa
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...tock-market-meltdown-sp-credit-downgrade.html

The Euro fell today way more than the dollar vs the swiss franc. No they dollar can become devalued, in fact it has done so many times in the last century but as a general rule those cycles don't last lifetimes, I think the longest was in the 70's with the gas embargo.
But then the dollar can also become over valued. We saw that recently with the ridiculous growth on the housing market.

So do you know what would need to happen for hte dollar to be "worthless"?

I'm probably one of the few who feel the housing market needed to collapse and reset itself. The exponetal, skyrocketing, double digit rates on increase on housing values was phoney and unsustainable. What happen was totally man made. We (country) got greedy and now when the market tanked and is resetting itselfm hopefully we'll get back to modest steady rates of growth.


Totally agree that we can no longer play "kick the can" on our debt problems.

 

[Colleen27]

"Eventually" is the operative word.



"The ailing US housing market passed a grim milestone in the first quarter of this year, posting a further deterioration that means the fall in house prices is now greater than that suffered during the Great Depression.

The remarkable thing about this downturn is that even though prices have fallen by more than in the Great Depression, the bottom has yet to be reached. We think that prices will fall by at least a further 3% this year, and perhaps even further next year.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28520.html

True enough, but the flip side of that coin is that we didn't have the immense run-up in prices prior to the recession that we saw prior to the housing crash. A 30% drop in prices after a 100% gain in the previous decade is market correction, not the sky falling.

 

[Princesca]

I agree with Eliza about the housing market needing to collapse. I felt that way about the bailouts, too. Bailing out banks that took unacceptable risks creates a moral hazard, disadvantages banks that played it safe, and merely kicks the can down the road.

Yes, America is in rough economic waters, but...

Countries are now far far far far far more intrinsically linked than they were during the Depression. All of our economies have been inextricably intertwined, by design. Just like we developed a policy of "mutually-assured destruction" with nuclear weapons, so we have with our economies. If America falls, so does the rest of the developed world, with obviously disastrous consequences. So countries are not going to let America fall. They may kick us when we're down, throw a little mud in our eyes, or snicker behind our back, but China has no vested interest in seeing the US fail. If we go, so does a vast majority of their export market.

But I still argue that we need to right our ship and get our economic house in order. One day, China will conquer its burgeoning unemployment problems and its own people will be in a financial position to consume more of the goods China produces. When the Chinese people are lifted up en masse out of the general poverty they're now in, THEN we become a lot less important. That's essentially what Peter Schiff, an economist who predicted the mortgage market collapse, has been warning about.

 

[padawans]

But padawan,
Every event is some thing this country never faced before. We never had a civil war that almost DESTROYED the country before or after. We never had a depression before, we never had a world trade bombing before either. All these things were once in a life time occurances that we survived.

I have a deep understanding of what the global market is going through, I daresay as good if not better than most simply for the fact that I've got players in the European markets.


The interest rate on treasury bonds actually went down today, so all the doomsayers who said that uber inflation would take hold were wrong (so far, tomorrow is another day) Translation: inverstors were buying treasury bonds today as opposed to stocks so their faith in the dollar is still there. because t bills are back by the usa
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...tock-market-meltdown-sp-credit-downgrade.html

The Euro fell today way more than the dollar vs the swiss franc. No they dollar can become devalued, in fact it has done so many times in the last century but as a general rule those cycles don't last lifetimes, I think the longest was in the 70's with the gas embargo.
But then the dollar can also become over valued. We saw that recently with the ridiculous growth on the housing market.

So do you know what would need to happen for hte dollar to be "worthless"?

I'm probably one of the few who feel the housing market needed to collapse and reset itself. The exponetal, skyrocketing, double digit rates on increase on housing values was phoney and unsustainable. What happen was totally man made. We (country) got greedy and now when the market tanked and is resetting itselfm hopefully we'll get back to modest steady rates of growth.


Totally agree that we can no longer play "kick the can" on our debt problems.

I am no mood to argue so I will leave it at that. They created the housing bubble. They will also devalue all currencies. I can't wait to revisit this thread in a few years and see who was right on this.

 

[fakereadhed]

Personally I think if that happens to the US the results you describel be worldwide.

Those who are planning for the collapse will be extremely surprised by how easy it will be for the non-prepared to take what they saved for and then all will be equal again. How can a family or two hold off hundreds or even thousands?

Those is cities are at the greatest risk since they cannot grow their own food. Those is the country, where more land is available, will fair far better.

Say I have two weeks worth of food, what do I do in the third week? I can't grow a cow that fast, certainly can't buy a full grown cow because it will cost too much, or get a chicken from chick to layer in just two weeks. No vegetable garden will be ready in two weeks or even 6 months if the disaster happens in the winter and you live in the north.

I am a planner but to me the preppers are living in fear.

I saw a show where a man had converted his pool into an ecosystem had grew tilapia fish. I loved that idea from a green point of view but how fast could those fish go once the neighbors found out and they were hunger?

Do you really think the preppers haven't thought of this? Pretty sure they stocked up on ammo too. I certainly wouldn't try to mess with a prepper!

While I wouldn't get carried away by fear, I think it isn't out of the realm of possibility that hyperinflation could occur in this country, especially if they do another QE. If you look at historical situations with hyperinflation the conditions here could lead into that direction if we're not careful.