How do you think losing the AAA rating will effect you on a personal level?

[dvcgirl]

It's really funny because my dh and my in laws are Portugese . They have a totally different attitude than we do over here.

They are fully aware that they are in deep debt but rarely will you hear anyone in lisbon & Paris (where we went this summer) decry that the country is going to end or money is going to be wothless. They have a totally different type of living so it's hard to compare apples to apples.
The average citizen seems more involved there than we are here though. Most of the unrest though is because they don't want the austerity measures being forced on them.

So in that we have in common, every body agrees there is a problem but no one wants to be the one to sacrifice. Its going to be interesting to see how we cut the deficiet without cutting medicare, reorganizing social security or ending tax breaks.

Yes, I agree that in many cases the Europeans are definitely more laid back, but this is the first really serious crisis since the Euro was created. And it's one thing when little Greece is defaulting, but with Italy and Spain in trouble....that's a much bigger deal. Germany doesn't have enough money for that project.

But even if they're more laid back in general, and just writing off the protests and rioting as young people with nothing better to do......they're not exempt from the reality facing them.

Totally agree that we're just like them in that we want to hang onto all of our entitlements and not change a thing.

 

[nunzia]

It's really funny because my dh and my in laws are Portugese . They have a totally different attitude than we do over here.

They are fully aware that they are in deep debt but rarely will you hear anyone in lisbon & Paris (where we went this summer) decry that the country is going to end or money is going to be wothless. They have a totally different type of living so it's hard to compare apples to apples.
The average citizen seems more involved there than we are here though. Most of the unrest though is because they don't want the austerity measures being forced on them.

So in that we have in common, every body agrees there is a problem but no one wants to be the one to sacrifice. Its going to be interesting to see how we cut the deficiet without cutting medicare, reorganizing social security or ending tax breaks.

IF they decide to really tackle the deficit all those things will HAVE to be done. I wish they would just start and deal with it already or it will all just continue to get worse. They keep kicking that can down the road hoping they can get out with all their plush perks intact before the crap really hits the fan.

 

[OceanAnnie]

IF they decide to really tackle the deficit all those things will HAVE to be done. I wish they would just start and deal with it already or it will all just continue to get worse. They keep kicking that can down the road hoping they can get out with all their plush perks intact before the crap really hits the fan.

IMO, that's the FIRST thing that should be cut! They have been giving themselves raises for the longest time and those perks should never have been. When those that are elected to serve you make these outrageous salaries and multiple benefits they become out of touch with the everyday man. Two the reasons for the mess we are in; never ending money and no accountability.

 

[bettymae1121]

I don't think it will effect me in the least, to be honest. Our jobs are secure as can be short of being under contract, about 80% of our 401 money is in bonds (I figured the market was over heated for a while, given econonic conditions, so I moved most of our money out of stocks) and other than a small car loan we'll need next year we have no plans of borrowing any money, and what we already owe are all fixed rates.

 

[punkin]

Ack, the stock market is nauseating. Hope to still have some retirement savings when this is all over.

 

[eliza61]

IMO, that's the FIRST thing that should be cut! They have been giving themselves raises for the longest time and those perks should never have been. When those that are elected to serve you make these outrageous salaries and multiple benefits they become out of touch with the everyday man. Two the reasons for the mess we are in; never ending money and no accountability.

Sorry guys, you could cut every single politicians salary to zero, have them work totally free, get absolutely no perks and it would not make a bit of difference to the long term deficiet, but to maybe make us feel better. I totally agree with you OA, it would definitely amke me feel better.

We've got to make cuts in the big expenditures (health care, social security, welfare and the military) and bring in more revenue (get rid of tax cuts) and productivity.

Neither one alone will solve this problem.

The problem is no one wants their stuff cut. No one wants to give up their tax discounts (thanks to everyones various credits & breaks only ~48% of the population pays taxes) and no one wants to give up their entitlements. The military was on tv screaming last night about cuts to its budgets.


So really we all are the problem. We are a nation of 300 million people who feel every one else is the problem.

Truthfully I don't see this problem getting solved any time soon.

 

[padawans]

The problem is easy to solve. It would just be catastrophic on a short term basis , but eventually we will end up their anyway. Unfortunately, nobody has the balls to fix the problem so will just kick the can down the road until it explodes.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Sorry guys, you could cut every single politicians salary to zero, have them work totally free, get absolutely no perks and it would not make a bit of difference to the long term deficiet, but to maybe make us feel better. I totally agree with you OA, it would definitely amke me feel better.

We've got to make cuts in the big expenditures (health care, social security, welfare and the military) and bring in more revenue (get rid of tax cuts) and productivity.

Neither one alone will solve this problem.

The problem is no one wants their stuff cut. No one wants to give up their tax discounts (thanks to everyones various credits & breaks only ~48% of the population pays taxes) and no one wants to give up their entitlements. The military was on tv screaming last night about cuts to its budgets.


So really we all are the problem. We are a nation of 300 million people who feel every one else is the problem.

Truthfully I don't see this problem getting solved any time soon.

Hi Eliza!

I respectfully disagree. It would make a difference both in fiscal responsibility and mindset. Wasteful spending is wasteful spending, IMO. Cuts should be made wherever there is waste. It does add up and it does make a difference.

Senate Hair Care Revolving Fund- For fiscal year 2010, $33,387 was used to outlay this expense.

Senate Restaurant Fund- The Senators tapped this fund for $72,370.12 for fiscal year 2010.

Senate Health And Fitness Facility, Architect Of The Capitol- The taxpayers also paid $123,856.74 towards that.

Official Mail Costs, Senate- $115,546.71 of this money was actually used for mail.

Senate Gift Shop Revolving Fund-What this taxpayer money is used for is unclear, but these guys managed to spend $166,673.26 over fiscal year 2010.

Senate Photographic Studio Revolving Fund- spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Senate Recording Studio Revolving Fund-spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Contingent Expenses, Stationery (paper), Revolving Fund- spent $298,821.41.

Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account- The report states that $422,000,000 was appropriated for use in the personal expense accounts of these 100 Senators.

Of that $422 million, $400,590,512.37 was used (outlay) for the personal and office expenses of these Senators.

That represents an average of about $4,005,900 per Senator for “personal” and “office” expenses. Tax free. Spent on anything they want.

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/the-senate-how-much-does-it-cost/
---------------------------------------------------------

IMO we can't afford to carry these perks any longer. YMMV.

 

[nunzia]

Hi Eliza!

I respectfully disagree. It would make a difference both in fiscal responsibility and mindset. Wasteful spending is wasteful spending, IMO. Cuts should be made wherever there is waste. It does add up and it does make a difference.

Senate Hair Care Revolving Fund- For fiscal year 2010, $33,387 was used to outlay this expense.

Senate Restaurant Fund- The Senators tapped this fund for $72,370.12 for fiscal year 2010.

Senate Health And Fitness Facility, Architect Of The Capitol- The taxpayers also paid $123,856.74 towards that.

Official Mail Costs, Senate- $115,546.71 of this money was actually used for mail.

Senate Gift Shop Revolving Fund-What this taxpayer money is used for is unclear, but these guys managed to spend $166,673.26 over fiscal year 2010.

Senate Photographic Studio Revolving Fund- spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Senate Recording Studio Revolving Fund-spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Contingent Expenses, Stationery (paper), Revolving Fund- spent $298,821.41.

Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account- The report states that $422,000,000 was appropriated for use in the personal expense accounts of these 100 Senators.

Of that $422 million, $400,590,512.37 was used (outlay) for the personal and office expenses of these Senators.

That represents an average of about $4,005,900 per Senator for “personal” and “office” expenses. Tax free. Spent on anything they want.

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/the-senate-how-much-does-it-cost/
---------------------------------------------------------

IMO we can't afford to carry these perks any longer. YMMV.

that is just disgusting.

 

[maggiew]

Hi Eliza!

Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account- The report states that $422,000,000 was appropriated for use in the personal expense accounts of these 100 Senators.

Of that $422 million, $400,590,512.37 was used (outlay) for the personal and office expenses of these Senators.

That represents an average of about $4,005,900 per Senator for “personal” and “office” expenses. Tax free. Spent on anything they want.

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/the-senate-how-much-does-it-cost/
---------------------------------------------------------

IMO we can't afford to carry these perks any longer. YMMV.

Is that personnel or personal? You use them both here. To me that makes a big difference.

Maggie

 

[OceanAnnie]

Is that personnel or personal? You use them both here. To me that makes a big difference.

Maggie

I think it was a typo. It seems to be. I don't know.

ETA- I think you may be right. From what was quoted, the Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account, it seems like the two (Personnel and personal expenses) are not broken out. I looked it up and it does say Personnel but I *think* it also covers personal and office expenses. I just looked at the headers.

 

[dvcgirl]

Hi Eliza!

I respectfully disagree. It would make a difference both in fiscal responsibility and mindset. Wasteful spending is wasteful spending, IMO. Cuts should be made wherever there is waste. It does add up and it does make a difference.

Senate Hair Care Revolving Fund- For fiscal year 2010, $33,387 was used to outlay this expense.

Senate Restaurant Fund- The Senators tapped this fund for $72,370.12 for fiscal year 2010.

Senate Health And Fitness Facility, Architect Of The Capitol- The taxpayers also paid $123,856.74 towards that.

Official Mail Costs, Senate- $115,546.71 of this money was actually used for mail.

Senate Gift Shop Revolving Fund-What this taxpayer money is used for is unclear, but these guys managed to spend $166,673.26 over fiscal year 2010.

Senate Photographic Studio Revolving Fund- spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Senate Recording Studio Revolving Fund-spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Contingent Expenses, Stationery (paper), Revolving Fund- spent $298,821.41.

Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account- The report states that $422,000,000 was appropriated for use in the personal expense accounts of these 100 Senators.

Of that $422 million, $400,590,512.37 was used (outlay) for the personal and office expenses of these Senators.

That represents an average of about $4,005,900 per Senator for “personal” and “office” expenses. Tax free. Spent on anything they want.

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/the-senate-how-much-does-it-cost/
---------------------------------------------------------

IMO we can't afford to carry these perks any longer. YMMV.

Well, I would think that there could be some cuts here, but like another poster said, I'm betting that this is "personnel" and not "personal".

Even still, when you look at the percentage of what this number makes up of our 3.8 Trillion dollar federal budget ( I think that's roughly what we're spending in 2011...with a 1.1 trillion deficit).......the number is infinitesimal.

I'm with Eliza....we need to tackle the big issues.....SS, Medicare and the Military.

 

[eliza61]

Hi Eliza!

I respectfully disagree. It would make a difference both in fiscal responsibility and mindset. Wasteful spending is wasteful spending, IMO. Cuts should be made wherever there is waste. It does add up and it does make a difference.

Senate Hair Care Revolving Fund- For fiscal year 2010, $33,387 was used to outlay this expense.

Senate Restaurant Fund- The Senators tapped this fund for $72,370.12 for fiscal year 2010.

Senate Health And Fitness Facility, Architect Of The Capitol- The taxpayers also paid $123,856.74 towards that.

Official Mail Costs, Senate- $115,546.71 of this money was actually used for mail.

Senate Gift Shop Revolving Fund-What this taxpayer money is used for is unclear, but these guys managed to spend $166,673.26 over fiscal year 2010.

Senate Photographic Studio Revolving Fund- spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Senate Recording Studio Revolving Fund-spent $65,915.24 for the year.

Contingent Expenses, Stationery (paper), Revolving Fund- spent $298,821.41.

Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account- The report states that $422,000,000 was appropriated for use in the personal expense accounts of these 100 Senators.
---------------------------------------------------------

IMO we can't afford to carry these perks any longer. YMMV.

Oh no, don't get me wrong I totally agree with you. These are definitely cut every thing to the bone times. My problem and I think we see this with this deficiet deal is that what tends to happen is our lovely leaders say:

"Hey, we cut out our perks, aren't you so proud of us" but we're not touching the stuff that is really getting us in debt. You can't say I didn't do my job"

I look at it like this, lets say your 200K in credit card debt and you say, well I'm goging to give up my morning starbucks and try to pay off my debt but I'm totally keeping my biannual disney vacations.

So I worry that we get side tracked on the "cup of coffeee"

Look at it another way (and these numbers are from 2008 so they are probably a little off).
Lets say you make a 1000 week. That's what Uncle sam says is a median income (52k a year)
Out of that $1000 bucks, comes these bills.

~$219.40 for medicare & medicaid
$206.60 for social security (getting higher because the pool is getting smaller)
$197.00 for military (not including the cost of the wars. this is basically salaries and expend)
$180.00 for interest paid on our loans (including interest payments to ourselves for T-bonds)

So already we're at 800 bucks on the biggies that are getting bigger.

Now look what happen, we make cuts in education. Well education only makes up $45 dollars of every thousand. Cutting that isn't going to make a big difference. I laugh when people scream about the pensions on federal workers. That only eats about $30 bucks on that thousand. Same thing with foreign aid. Yes it should be cut but be realistic and realize that out of every $1000 tax dollars only 7 dollars goes to foreign aid. If you had a 1000 credit card bill with zero interest and only chipped away at it at 7 bucks a month, it would take you almost 12 years to pay it off.

see what I mean, we get fixated (sp) on the little stuff when the things that are pulling us down are not addressed.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Oh no, don't get me wrong I totally agree with you. My problem and I think we see this with this deficiet deal is that what tends to happen is our lovely leaders say:

"Hey, we cut out our perks, aren't you so proud of us" but we're not touching the stuff that is really getting us in debt. You can't say I didn't do my job"

I look at it like this, lets say your 200K in credit card debt and you say, well I'm goging to give up my morning starbucks and try to pay off my debt but I'm totally keeping my biannual disney vacations.

So I worry that we get side tracked on the "cup of coffeee"

I see it as it takes a lot of beans to make a "cup of coffee".

 

[maggiew]

The blogger who wrote that article just made a mistake by not understanding the difference between "personnel" and "personal". I looked at the original source document (the Financial Report) and it is "personnel". So the argument is not quite as dramatic as saying each Senator was spending $4 million on "personal" expenses.

Maggie

 

[OceanAnnie]

Well, I would think that there could be some cuts here, but like another poster said, I'm betting that this is "personnel" and not "personal".

Even still, when you look at the percentage of what this number makes up of our 3.8 Trillion dollar federal budget ( I think that's roughly what we're spending in 2011...with a 1.1 trillion deficit).......the number is infinitesimal.

I'm with Eliza....we need to tackle the big issues.....SS, Medicare and the Military.

It does not take, $4,005,900 per Senator to run an office. So even if "personnel" is in that figure, it's ludicrous.

Wasteful spending is a big issue. It does add up. I think they are ALL big issues. They all need to be tackled. Everything should be on the table. It effects us all.

 

[OceanAnnie]

The blogger who wrote that article just made a mistake by not understanding the difference between "personnel" and "personal". I looked at the original source document (the Financial Report) and it is "personnel". So the argument is not quite as dramatic as saying each Senator was spending $4 million on "personal" expenses.

Maggie

IMO the blogger did not made a mistake in understanding. The heading, Contingent Expenses, Senator’s Official Personnel And Office Expense Account the underlined does fall under "personal".

ETA- There was no break out so yes, it isn't all personal. I still maintain it doesn't take $4,000,000 per Senator to run an office. That is a dramatic figure no matter how you look at it.

 

[natenapril]

Well, I would think that there could be some cuts here, but like another poster said, I'm betting that this is "personnel" and not "personal".

Even still, when you look at the percentage of what this number makes up of our 3.8 Trillion dollar federal budget ( I think that's roughly what we're spending in 2011...with a 1.1 trillion deficit).......the number is infinitesimal.

I'm with Eliza....we need to tackle the big issues.....SS, Medicare and the Military.

You know what bothers me about this? I've been a military spouse for 15 years. My Dh will retire in 5. And now we are facing losing the retirement he has sacrificed for because the average citizen always wants to cut military pays first. The govt is not going to just pull out of Iraq overnight. They are planning on taking away retirements and starting 401Ks that are not nearly what was promised. And it saddens me to see so many people agree that the military needs to take the cuts. It's like a slap in the face. Nope, don't cut congress's pay. Cut the military members benefits whose average salary is 35,000. Brilliant.

 

[Free4Life11]

The problem is no one wants their stuff cut. No one wants to give up their tax discounts (thanks to everyones various credits & breaks only ~48% of the population pays taxes) and no one wants to give up their entitlements. The military was on tv screaming last night about cuts to its budgets.

I agree with everything you said, but just to be clear it's federal income taxes which so many people don't pay. That statistic is generally used to incite outrage and imply that these people are not contributing, but that's not always true. Many of those 48% have jobs and payroll taxes are just as important as income taxes. In 2010 payroll taxes brought in about $865B and individual income taxes brought in about $899B.

 

[maggiew]

I'm not arguing about it. I just wanted clarification.

I also think its a stretch to now say that "office expenses" is "personal expenses". I mean, look at what the blogger goes on to say: "I’m sure much of it was spent on wining and dining corporate lobbyists, purchasing fancy suits, and personal grooming and care. But these expense accounts can be used for just about anything. Condos in Tahiti, vacations to Australia, second home purchases for “business purposes”, you name it. All tax exempt!" So they are clealy not equating the "office expenses" part to the "personal expenses" but the "personnel" part of the title to "personal expenses". But whatever. Its not a big deal.

I agree that $4 million per Senator is a lot to run their office whether it be personnel, personal or office expenses.

Maggie