How do you feel about Sea World, ethically? Is AK better?

[mshanson3121]

I think the dolphins at Epcot would be better off at Seaworld or DC. At least they could have fresh air and sun.

I'm wondering why they keep them in Epcot, and why they don't try to incorporate them into Animal Kingdom. Surely they could add in an aquatic section?

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm wondering why they keep them in Epcot, and why they don't try to incorporate them into Animal Kingdom. Surely they could add in an aquatic section?

That would be a good idea.

It's interesting, the whole Living Seas pavilion at Epcot was built to keep people on property and not go to SW. Ditto for AK and BG Tampa. Sometimes I wonder if Disney regrets getting into the zoo/aquarium business.

 

[bcla]

That would be a good idea.

It's interesting, the whole Living Seas pavilion at Epcot was built to keep people on property and not go to SW. Ditto for AK and BG Tampa. Sometimes I wonder if Disney regrets getting into the zoo/aquarium business.

SeaWorld and Disneyland basically make up bulk of Southern California CityPASS. You can even throw in the San Diego Zoo and/or Safari Park as an add-on. However, we're not quite dealing with short distances and in any case Walt always regretted not being able to buy more land around Anaheim to both expand and control the experience. When he planned on expansion to the East Coast, one would think that a more populous area like NYC would have made more sense, but he was thinking big. He did great business at the World's Fair in NYC, but apparently the failure of one theme park in the Bronx made him hesitant to set up shop in such a population dense area.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Why does AK breed their captive animals?

The endangered species, or the species that are quarry for poachers?

 

[CPT Tripss]

I dont really see this ever being addressed by those that care about nothing but taking the whole company down. Sure, Seaworld is a for-profit company, but a lot of money is put into conservation and rescue efforts. Where is this money going to come from if there is no more Seaworld?

Maybe from all the people that visited one of the parks and who have allegedly been educated by the captive animals?

My statement is not rubbish thank you.
The first poster stated that nothing had changed and I stated that it in fact had changed, the motives behind the change don't change the fact that it has changed.

Your comment was not meant to defend them as I inferred from the context?

 

[Kbee]

The endangered species, or the species that are quarry for poachers?

How about the ones that aren't on the endangered list? AK has 250 species of animals, I believe I read that they have bred 30 species on the list. That leaves 220 to choose from.

 

[mummabear]

Your comment was not meant to defend them as I inferred from the context?

Nope a simple statement of fact

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My favorite show at Seaworld is the ones with cats and dogs and other rescued domestic animals.

I don't have objections to Sea World. Apparently I am just not into all the other shows. So I prefer AK because I can see the animals at my leisure.

 

[larryz]

For one, their animals aren't expected to perform

Perform is very subjective. Ask an AK trainer about the "enrichment experiences" they set up for the animals, especially the big cats...

And what do you call feeding time at the zoo, if not a performance...

 

[mummabear]

I said the animals at Animal Kingdom are not expected to perform. I said nothing of the dolphins at Epcot, whether they performed or not. I did not know if they did or not.

But all the animals at AK do, all captive animals are somewhat trained, for the purpose of care etc, at AK specifically when they are called in for the night, I am not personally sure if they are called in just for feeding or if they are housed somehow for the night.

IMO it is hypocritical to say you can't support SeaWorld but don't apply the same logic to Disney and AK

 

[cjbcam]

Animals have always been used by humans for a lot of things food, work, entertainment ect. I see no problem with it nowadays. Sure in times where they would whip the animals or what not. Now they have cameras and photos of everything that I'm sure the animal lovers that take care of these animals would tape any wrong doings and there would be a major outcry.
Most animals (I know orcas aren't one) that are kept in captivity live longer. They also allow people to study them and learn about them. I truly believe that these places are helping animals.

 

[mshanson3121]

I dont really see this ever being addressed by those that care about nothing but taking the whole company down. Sure, Seaworld is a for-profit company, but a lot of money is put into conservation and rescue efforts. Where is this money going to come from if there is no more Seaworld?

Actually, no they DON'T put a lot of money into conservation and rescue efforts. Sea World makes on average 800,000,000 to close to 1 billion dollars per year. Their non-profit portion donates a mere $1,000,000 to conservation. And guess how much of that Sea World Corp. themselves physically donates? $100,000. IMO that's pathetic, and in no way even comes close to excusing how they're treating their animals. The rest of the money they donate comes from outside donations from fundraising events, merchandise sales etc... But Sea World Corp. finds the money to pay their CEO a many, many, multi-million dollar salary - and hey, did you know that his house is actually 7000 square feet larger than the entire orca stadium? So, IMO, the "conservation" part, is a joke. Don't get me wrong - it's nice that they do anything, yes. But, to me, it's more of a publicity thing. They could be doing FAR more than they are - and instead of working on saving all these other animals, why don't they start by putting the money into taking care of the ones they have properly?

Now to be fair - Disney makes billions of dollars every year - and that's just on ticket sales. And their conservation fund only donates $1.8 million each year, also largely from donations. So they could be doing better, too. But the difference is - Disney is at least giving better treatment and care for their animals, and they're not using their fund to off-set negative publicity.

 

[mshanson3121]

But all the animals at AK do, all captive animals are somewhat trained, for the purpose of care etc, at AK specifically when they are called in for the night, I am not personally sure if they are called in just for feeding or if they are housed somehow for the night.

IMO it is hypocritical to say you can't support SeaWorld but don't apply the same logic to Disney and AK

No it doesn't. I've said all along - my issue isn't so much with the animals being there, as much as how they're cared for. Animal Kingdom has excellent records, has NO safety citations, no deaths or injuries to trainers, much better housing and doesn't drug their animals to perform - perform in the sense that Sea World does, which let's stop nit-picking shall we, you know that by perform I don't mean walk to the trainer to get fed and go into their housing at night, which is not done as a "show". By perform I mean shows in which the animals are expected to do a certain series of tricks while a stadium full of people are sitting to watch, many of whom they've made money off of by selling preferred seating etc.... Animal Kingdom does NOT do any performances like that. (The bird thing is a private company.)

I wouldn't have such an issue with Sea World if they a) were providing better living conditions for the orcas b) were actually consistently meeting safety standards instead of getting repeated violations c) weren't drugging their animals. I won't list the other things they've been accused of in recent lawsuits, since there's no "proof", yet. However, the fact that they even dared to bring an orca into their park that had already killed two people is pathetic. My God - what if that accident had happened in front of a stadium full of kids?! And the fact that even after it happened, they tried to deny responsibility, they tried to fight/appeal the court decisions, the fact that they still tried to keep the trainers in the water with the animals, even though this was not the first time an orca had attacked one of their trainers? Doesn't make them look all that "nice". Money hungry? Yes. Responsible and caring? No.

I have no doubt that the people that work there, do care for their animals. But they can only care as much as Sea World Corp. says they can. I think there is a lot of potential there, I do. It's just a matter of are they going to shell out the money they need to, to get there? With revenue down and stocks down 50%... somehow I doubt it. And maybe in a sense, the people boycotting it are only hurting their own efforts - because the less money, the less likely those animals are going to see any improvements. But... on the flip side, if SW went ahead and put the money into doing what they need to, I bet they'd see revenue and stocks go back up. It'd be great PR.

 

[Jennasis]

Dawn Brancheau (the trainer who was killed by Tillikum), her family spoke out AGAINST Blackfish.

And anyone who poo-poo's donations of $1 Million dollars...well all I have to say is how much are YOU donating? As I have already said, the killer whale habitats are scheduled for a major overhaul (meant to mimic their natural habitat and dramatically increase the size of their living space). So rather than being happy that all this publicity/attention etc has created a national dialog and generated actual change that will directly benefit the whales, we have people complaining "it isn't enough".

 

[mshanson3121]

Dawn Brancheau (the trainer who was killed by Tillikum), her family spoke out AGAINST Blackfish.

And anyone who poo-poo's donations of $1 Million dollars...well all I have to say is how much are YOU donating? As I have already said, the killer whale habitats are scheduled for a major overhaul (meant to mimic their natural habitat and dramatically increase the size of their living space). So rather than being happy that all this publicity/attention etc has created a national dialog and generated actual change that will directly benefit the whales, we have people complaining "it isn't enough".

We give 1% of our income to charity each year. Sea World gives 0.000125%.
And just when are the overhauls going to happen? Have they even remotely set a date? It's one thing to "say" they're going to get an overhaul when they're being pressured from the public. It's another to actually do it. Sea World has had complaints and pressure for over 50 years, and they've done nothing yet. They've had multiple citations for the same safety issues that they didn't fix. So... I think it's safe to say most people have a "we'll believe it when we see it" attitude, especially given their track record.

 

[Jennasis]

We give 1% of our income to charity each year. Sea World gives 0.000125%.
And just when are the overhauls going to happen? Have they even remotely set a date? It's one thing to "say" they're going to get an overhaul when they're being pressured from the public. It's another to actually do it.

http://blueworldproject.seaworld.com/

The first one of the three parks (San Diego) is expected to open in 2018 with the others following.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Just curious--for those of you that are so against having animals in zoos and such, do you have pets at home???

 

[ArwenMarie]

I would be willing to bet that some of the animals at AK are "drugged" meaning given anti-anxiety meds, as well as the Dolphins at Epcot. The Dolphins are shown on tours so they are performing too.

 

[JanaDee]

Wild animals need to stay wild.

That didn't work so well for all the animals that are now extinct or on the verge of extinction.

 

[JanaDee]

But all the animals at AK do, all captive animals are somewhat trained, for the purpose of care etc, at AK specifically when they are called in for the night, I am not personally sure if they are called in just for feeding or if they are housed somehow for the night.

IMO it is hypocritical to say you can't support SeaWorld but don't apply the same logic to Disney and AK

If you take the safari train to Conservation Station, you see all the cages the animals are housed in when not on display.