How do you feel about Sea World, ethically? Is AK better?

[mshanson3121]

Wow, that was rude and unnecessary. My original question was to someone who mentioned several types of animals. You obviously only want to argue and stir the pot, not have a rational discussion, so carry on.

LOL. Yes, because your post was meant to be perfectly polite and had no sarcasm at all... Hypocrisy is so fun though isn't it? Have a great night.

 

[mshanson3121]

I'll say this though since others have brought up dogs etc... You need to read up on the actual history and science of domestic dogs, before you can begin to compare them to trying to capture orcas etc... Much study has been done through many areas of archaeology, there's some great articles through National Geographic and other scientific magazines. Domestic dogs are thought to date back to 30,000 years or so, and is largely attributed to a genetic split. Also, it in part was thought to come through the fact that they were pack animals who were great hunters, and the early tribes of Asia (where the domestic dog is thought to have come from) were hunters. So, their relationship was built gradually, over many, many thousands of years, though shared cohabitation. Not forced removal from the waters and being thrown into a tank.

 

[nugov2]

I would love to go to Discovery Cove, and I do think the kids would enjoy it, and they'll probably be disappointed. I am really disappointed about it. I really am. But, almost every single one of you said we had too much planned, and when DH read the thread he agreed.... so. What do you do? Something needed to go, and out of the two, I figured they would rather miss DC than SW. Myself, I would rather drop HS. But, when deciding what to drop, I had to factor in cost, and DC is FAR more expensive than SW. And out of all the parks - DC is the biggest gamble - my son has really big water sensory issues. Now, chances are he'd go and be fine, but it's doubtful either child would last all day. And... I guess when I actually sat down and was realistic about it... $500-600 is a lot of money for a half day.

But no, I didn't know about any of those. I don't pay much attention to news. And certainly not about a place I had no intention of going, and I'm also in Canada, so we don't hear as much American stuff. I'd heard some vague rumors but it was in one ear and out the other. So, I was pretty well floored. The only reason I found out was because DH was trying to get the Sea World website to work (still wont here) and the news articles came up in a search. I'm not comfortable in going, but DH still wants to. So... we'll go. I mean, I hate to saying it - but yes, of course the kids will love it. I just HATE giving my money to a place that has a known reputation for this

I am truly curious when I ask if you are equally uncomfortable about AK and EP and hate giving Disney your money now that you know they too are guilty of the exact same offenses??

 

[Ceila]

LOL. Yes, because your post was meant to be perfectly polite and had no sarcasm at all... Hypocrisy is so fun though isn't it? Have a great night.

No, I didn't attack your ability to reason as you did mine. Hope your kids have a good trip.

 

[mshanson3121]

No, I didn't attack your ability to reason as you did mine. Hope your kids have a good trip.

Does this ring a bell?
"Or did you think that animals just chose to become inbred and taken from their packs, etc.?"
Insinuation, sarcasm. I'd say we're even. Truce.

 

[Ceila]

Does this ring a bell?
"Or did you think that animals just chose to become inbred and taken from their packs, etc.?"
Insinuation, sarcasm. I'd say we're even. Truce.

I stand by what I said, and sarcasm is not the same as insulting someone's intelligence. I won't respond to any further posts of yours. Good day.

 

[mshanson3121]

I am truly curious when I ask if you are equally uncomfortable about AK and EP and hate giving Disney your money now that you know they too are guilty of the exact same offenses??

Well from what I've heard on here I sure don't like the sounds of the Epcot tanks!

But I've read VERY different things about AK. For one, their animals aren't expected to perform, two, while no, they're not in their natural habitat, they have far more relative space than the orcas do, three 90% of their animals are rescued from other zoos, the rest are wild capture that were endangered in some way. Also, there are no negative reports on them, they've met all safety standards etc. I know someone threw out that top-10 list, but again, when you actually research that - it had nothing to do with how the animals were cared for, treated, or maintained on Disney property - the animals were transferred from Disney property to another property. They died elsewhere. Disney was just the one blamed since they chose to transfer them.

So... AK no I don't feel the same way. I don't agree with the Epcot tanks, no. It'd be nice if they removed them though. Will I go to Epcot? Yes. Will I go to the dolphins there? No. Does that make me hypocritical? I don't know. But, again, you're comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a park whose main source of income is based on their animals etc... and who has had repeated safety violations, complaints, law suits, deaths, injuries to workers... to a park whose single dolphin exhibit probably doesn't make up 1% of it's income, who meets safety regulations etc.. (speaking to Epcot) to another park whose income is based on their animals yes, but who provides better living conditions, meets all safety regulations, has no reports of injuries etc...

 

[mshanson3121]

I stand by what I said, and sarcasm is not the same as insulting someone's intelligence. I won't respond to any further posts of yours. Good day.

Nice try. Sarcasm my dear, is equally as insulting when used in the way you did. And yes, you were insulting my intelligence. Nice try though, A for effort

 

[Jennasis]

This is why the SW threads always close.

 

[nugov2]

Well from what I've heard on here I sure don't like the sounds of the Epcot tanks!

But I've read VERY different things about AK. For one, their animals aren't expected to perform, two, while no, they're not in their natural habitat, they have far more relative space than the orcas do, three 90% of their animals are rescued from other zoos, the rest are wild capture that were endangered in some way. Also, there are no negative reports on them, they've met all safety standards etc. I know someone threw out that top-10 list, but again, when you actually research that - it had nothing to do with how the animals were cared for, treated, or maintained on Disney property - the animals were transferred from Disney property to another property. They died elsewhere. Disney was just the one blamed since they chose to transfer them.

So... AK no I don't feel the same way. I don't agree with the Epcot tanks, no. It'd be nice if they removed them though. Will I go to Epcot? Yes. Will I go to the dolphins there? No. Does that make me hypocritical? I don't know. But, again, you're comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a park whose main source of income is based on their animals etc... and who has had repeated safety violations, complaints, law suits, deaths, injuries to workers... to a park whose single dolphin exhibit probably doesn't make up 1% of it's income, who meets safety regulations etc.. (speaking to Epcot) to another park whose income is based on their animals yes, but who provides better living conditions, meets all safety regulations, has no reports of injuries etc...

But the reality of it is the habitat for giraffes and elephants are exactly the same as what the orcas are facing At SW. They are forced to live on an acre of land vs 80-150 miles . That is a not even a small percent of their natural habitat, but for some reason people can justify it as fair treatment because it appears larger, but the reality is it is not.

Animals have died at AK because of negligence. Animals were poisoned. 31 animals died the year the park opened due to negligence and animals fighting. More recently the death of an elephant being transferred while pregnant. I don't know but that seems like a bad idea to transfer an animal already under a great amount of stress to a new habitat. Common sense didn't seem to be prevailing in that decision. There are other incidents as I said before a Google search away. I will visit all the parks, but still can't understand how others can easily rationalize the mistreatment of one species but not another. If you looked into it you would see giraffes and elephants both suffer tremendously from being in captivity and you are putting on blinders if you think disney is keeping elephants in captivity to protect them. Again there is an elephant preserve on hundreds of miles of protected land where they could live much happier and healthier lives. Disney could transport them there if they cared so much.

 

[ICF]

If I thought Sea World was worth the $$'s our family would spend to go there for the day then we would go.

 

[eliza61]

DH just saw this morning that two more major lawsuits have been filed against Sea World. Basically claims about inadequate space for the orcas, drugging them, etc... Among other things. He isn't sure how he feels about giving them money to support such practices. I know there's been a lot of really negative claims. What are your thoughts?

On the flip side, is Animal Kingdom any different- I mean they're still holding animals in captivity. Or are their facilities better?

I don't do sea world. simply too much evidence that Orcas do not do well in this environment and sea world has had so many issues around it.
that being said, I don't have any issue with other's going. If dh doesn't want to support them, there is way to much other stuff in Orlando to do.

 

[Xennia]

Why do you see a difference between dogs and the other animals you listed?

Wild animals need to stay wild.

 

[Kbee]

The thing is Disney would be breeding their dolphins if they had their way, but they were blocked. I find it funny the free pass AK/EP are given while SW is the bad one. They both have the same practices in place. They both place animals in captivity in areas that are not even close to adequate for the animals living in them. They both cause IMO mental and physical harm (not b/c the caregivers abuse them) from the conditions they live in. What is the size of AK. I think it is a couple of miles maybe less in size total. Elephants typically roam 80 miles..so that small couple of acres they live in at AK is ok? Again it is relatively the same as putting an Orca in a small tank it is just the tank appears smaller to our eyes than the couple of acres the elephant has, but I am sure the elephants feel just as cramped as the Orca.

The argument is that elephants are endangered, but if Disney cared about them they would move them to an elephant rescue where they have hundreds of miles that are safe to roam...right? Again, If you have an objection against all animals in captivity I get it, but trying to make SW the devil while rationalizing all the reasons why it is ok for Disney to do the exact same thing is IMO laughable. You can spin the story anyway you want, but by supporting AK and EP you are supporting the same thing as if you went to SW.

Well somebody earlier in the thread did say the animals at AK are very happy. Obviously that is because its a Disney Park and Seaworld is not.

 

[Planogirl]

It would be fabulous if wild animals could stay wild but poachers and loss of habitat are making sure that many cannot or else they will disappear. There doesn't seem to be a good solution.

I was much like others here at one time when it came to animals. But then I met some people that actually work with them and learned more about survival problems both on land and in the sea. Now I also subscribe to the ambassador viewpoint and believe that some animals need to be protected. Maybe they should just be allowed to go extinct but the very idea bothers me.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I loved it when I went there 20 years ago. However, I have more info now. I would not return. I recently went to the national zoo and realized I do feel the same about zoos. Unless they are breeding animals to release in the wild to increase population, or they have animals that have been wounded and are unable to be re-released, or perhaps because there really is no wild habitat left I am not comfortable with wild animals in cages for our entertainment.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Well from what I've heard on here I sure don't like the sounds of the Epcot tanks!

But I've read VERY different things about AK. For one, their animals aren't expected to perform, two, while no, they're not in their natural habitat, they have far more relative space than the orcas do, three 90% of their animals are rescued from other zoos, the rest are wild capture that were endangered in some way. Also, there are no negative reports on them, they've met all safety standards etc. I know someone threw out that top-10 list, but again, when you actually research that - it had nothing to do with how the animals were cared for, treated, or maintained on Disney property - the animals were transferred from Disney property to another property. They died elsewhere. Disney was just the one blamed since they chose to transfer them.

So... AK no I don't feel the same way. I don't agree with the Epcot tanks, no. It'd be nice if they removed them though. Will I go to Epcot? Yes. Will I go to the dolphins there? No. Does that make me hypocritical? I don't know. But, again, you're comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing a park whose main source of income is based on their animals etc... and who has had repeated safety violations, complaints, law suits, deaths, injuries to workers... to a park whose single dolphin exhibit probably doesn't make up 1% of it's income, who meets safety regulations etc.. (speaking to Epcot) to another park whose income is based on their animals yes, but who provides better living conditions, meets all safety regulations, has no reports of injuries etc...

The dolphins actually perform multiple times a day. I've seen it many, many times either just starting, in the process or ending. I can assure you they certainly do perform for humans just as some of the animals at Sea World do.

 

[mshanson3121]

The dolphins actually perform multiple times a day. I've seen it many, many times either just starting, in the process or ending. I can assure you they certainly do perform for humans just as some of the animals at Sea World do.

I said the animals at Animal Kingdom are not expected to perform. I said nothing of the dolphins at Epcot, whether they performed or not. I did not know if they did or not.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think the dolphins at Epcot would be better off at Seaworld or DC. At least they could have fresh air and sun.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I said the animals at Animal Kingdom are not expected to perform. I said nothing of the dolphins at Epcot, whether they performed or not. I did not know if they did or not.

WDW sells 3-hour dolphin encounters for $199 each. Not sure how many they sell in a day though