How do they get away with charging so much?

[jgmklmhem]

O.k. people, this was not an I hate doctor thread . I did not say that I didn't think dd received quality care from the doctor. The point of my original thread was that I am sick of being over charged by doctors because they can. There are great doctors that yeah they worked hard to get their degrees, but we also work hard to earn our money, and it is hard to justify people saying doctors should be able to overcharge because of this. I really don't mind paying for quality health care, I just don't and should not have to pay more than is necessary. I don't go to the store and when I see that I was over charged say well they worked hard to put this product on the shelf so they deserve to keep what they over charged me for. Doctors seem to forget that they are hired to do a service, some Drs feel the need to take advantage of it. For me to find as many mistakes in doctors billings over the last 8 months that I have is outrageous! The fact of the matter is that it is not just from one doctor, but several, so yes there is a problem!

So what you really have a problem with is incompetant clerical staff because I can gurantee you that the doctors are not the ones really billing you it is the office staff.

 

[Royalbear]

So what you really have a problem with is incompetant clerical staff because I can gurantee you that the doctors are not the ones really billing you it is the office staff

That is the truth. When I see patients I am limited by a series of codes which I have to use which may or may not match the diagnosis exactly. That's how cleaning wax out of the ear will turn into a surgical procedure. Once I fill in my billing tickets, I never see them again and since I am a hospital employee I don't even know how much a patient (or insurance) gets charged. As for complaining as to how much a hospital overcharges for ibuprofen, how much do you think a restaurant overcharges for that cup of tea that you are drinking?

I am glad I have health insurance, I am diligent in reviewing and questioning my bills in order to keep the costs down for my insurance company and you can bet I would question anything that looks like a double charge. I think the program needs revamped, but I don't think doctors are overpaid.

 

[kejoda]

Originally Posted by KelNottAt
I'm just saying thank goodness there was a neonatologist on duty. And, thanks to people like you who let us wake you up. You're worth every penny.

Oh geesh. I did read that completely wrong.

Thank you

LOL don't take this the wrong way but you just proved that everyone has their duh moents.

I hope you get a great nights sleep tonight.

 

[luvdzne]

So what you really have a problem with is incompetant clerical staff because I can gurantee you that the doctors are not the ones really billing you it is the office staff.

No they drs are not the ones actually sending out the bills, but they do fill out the charts. Mistakes come on the part of both parties. Clerical staff do not just make up procedures, the doctor puts them in the chart. Some of the billing errors that I have found are things the dr put in the chart but did not actually do. The sad thing is the insurance companies really don't care. They for the most part do nothing about it except raise our premiums. So basically I have a problem with whomever overbills me. It wastes not only my money, but my time in having their mistakes fixed .

 

[SandrA9810]

That's nothing. Try not having any insurance.

I stepped on a broken bowl and got two stitches in my little toe, and I owe like $600, then I had to go back to get them removed, another few hundred there. If kari wasn't so quezzy and it wasn't in my foot, I would've pulled the stupid stitches out myself.

A week prior to that, Kari got a bite on her leg and got cellulitice (sp??), in any case, she got a shot in her butt and it cost her $200. But it's now gone into collections and they said they'd reduce the bill by 20% if she pays it in full right now.

Maybe you should wait for a deal like that to come along... nothing like a discount!

 

[luvdzne]

That's nothing. Try not having any insurance.

I stepped on a broken bowl and got two stitches in my little toe, and I owe like $600, then I had to go back to get them removed, another few hundred there. If kari wasn't so quezzy and it wasn't in my foot, I would've pulled the stupid stitches out myself.

A week prior to that, Kari got a bite on her leg and got cellulitice (sp??), in any case, she got a shot in her butt and it cost her $200. But it's now gone into collections and they said they'd reduce the bill by 20% if she pays it in full right now.

Maybe you should wait for a deal like that to come along... nothing like a discount!

I'm not looking for a deal, I am looking to not be overcharged . I've been on that side of it too. It took me 3 years to pay the bill off. Actually Kari should be able to do a payment plan. I don't know how it differs from state to state, but as long as she is paying something on it, I don't believe they can put it in collections. Now that was a few years ago, and it may have changed a bit, but she should be able to negotiate some kind of payment plan in the least. And yes, I know this is why some dr have to charge more to other pts, but some people just cannot afford it. Yes I am lucky to have insurance, but it still doesn't make it OK.

 

[torinsmom]

I'm not looking for a deal, I am looking to not be overcharged . I've been on that side of it too. It took me 3 years to pay the bill off. Actually Kari should be able to do a payment plan. I don't know how it differs from state to state, but as long as she is paying something on it, I don't believe they can put it in collections. Now that was a few years ago, and it may have changed a bit, but she should be able to negotiate some kind of payment plan in the least. And yes, I know this is why some dr have to charge more to other pts, but some people just cannot afford it. Yes I am lucky to have insurance, but it still doesn't make it OK.

I was told by Duke Hospital after my surgery that if I didn't pay at least $100 per month, it would go to collections. I guess it depends on the hospital. You'd think they would give you a break if you were at least paying something.

I definitely don't blame doctors for the problems I have had with the medical establishment. My doctors and my son's doctors have been great! I just think the billing procedures can be crazy sometimes and they vary so much. I would like to know what to expect and not get blindsided by a huge bill. Insurance is a big part of that for me. You have to be a rocket scientist to understand all the fine print. For instance, why will they only cover one physical every 2 years for my 11 year old? Adults are covered for one per year.

Marsha

 

[Disney Ella]

I would like to know what to expect and not get blindsided by a huge bill.

Marsha

I think that is the key. As consumers, we should have the right to know the cost (at least a ballpark figure) of each procedure. There is no other industry that can get away with these kind of billing practices. I know it is complicated, but surely there is a way for people to have a realistic idea of the costs they are incurring.

 

[RachelEllen]

Originally Posted by KelNottAt
I'm just saying thank goodness there was a neonatologist on duty. And, thanks to people like you who let us wake you up. You're worth every penny.




LOL don't take this the wrong way but you just proved that everyone has their duh moents.

I hope you get a great nights sleep tonight.

Trust me, I have plenty As we speak, I am sitting here in hospital socks and borrowed clogs, 'cause I left my sneakers at home!

 

[Free4Life11]

I think that is the key. As consumers, we should have the right to know the cost (at least a ballpark figure) of each procedure. There is no other industry that can get away with these kind of billing practices. I know it is complicated, but surely there is a way for people to have a realistic idea of the costs they are incurring.

I was JUST going to post this same thing!

I had surgery last summer and they didn't even give an estimate. They made me sign a form saying I would pay. Now I didn't bother to even ask because I knew my parents would pay, but I was still surprised that they don't even give you an estimate.

Also why do I as a patient get charged if I miss an appointment but my doctor can be late or even cancel on me at the last minute? I had a doctor cancel my appointment two weeks in a row, yet if I had cancelled less than 24 hours before (like he did) I would have been charged $45.

 

[pigget74]

Know what? I love my job. (neonatologist) And I'm also doing it for the money. Sorry, if I didn't get paid, I wouldn't be doing this. I don't know what that has to do with wanting to help people or not.

I'm going to go into a night shift tonight and very likely be paid $50/hr to spend the night sleeping. That might seem silly, but the whole point is that once a month or so, a desperately ill baby is born, and I'm the only one in that hospital that can get their heart going and get them breathing and stabalize them for transport. It might take me four hours or so, but I bet its worth more than that $200 to that family.

Same thing with most doctors. You're not paying them for just the time to diagnosis a broken bone and put a splint on. You're paying them for that time when they diagnosis a bone cancer at the site of fracture. Or when they discover that that broken bone was caused by child abuse.

You're not paying your family doc to tell you you have a virus and to take some Tylenol. You're also paying for those times when the chest cold is lung cancer or the sore throat would have become acute rhuematic fever.

I know people have bad experiences with hospitals and medicine. I've had some myself. But, there's a lot of doctor bashing out there, and I have to say it makes me pretty sad.

I do agree with you---what I do not agree with is being charged for something that was not done. That is why I think everyone should get an itemized account of when they go to a hospital. I am very thankful that there are DR's like you--my friend had a baby 3 weeks ago at 24 weeks. So far she is doing ok--as well as is expected for still being alive.

Please do not think that I am bashing you or other doctors--I am not. I just don't always agree with the way that hospitals bill sometimes. I know that is to help cover people who do not have insurance--been there done that- hopefully will not be there again. I also understand that it covers what some insurance companies refuse to cover--like mine. I am beginning to ramble so I will stop.

 

[RachelEllen]

I do agree with you---what I do not agree with is being charged for something that was not done. That is why I think everyone should get an itemized account of when they go to a hospital. I am very thankful that there are DR's like you--my friend had a baby 3 weeks ago at 24 weeks. So far she is doing ok--as well as is expected for still being alive.

Please do not think that I am bashing you or other doctors--I am not. I just don't always agree with the way that hospitals bill sometimes. I know that is to help cover people who do not have insurance--been there done that- hopefully will not be there again. I also understand that it covers what some insurance companies refuse to cover--like mine. I am beginning to ramble so I will stop.

No, it doesn't sound like you are bashing doctors at all. And I agree, there shouldn't be mistakes on hospital bills, and there are way too many.

It seems like this thread contains at least three different complaints:
1) Hospital bills shouldn't have errors in them
2) We pay too much for healthcare
3) We pay too much for healthcare because doctors charge too much for what they do

It's only 3 that my post was addressing. I think a lot of people don't realize that most doctors have very little to do with how much things cost. I also work for a hospital. I have a salary. I fill out billing paperwork according to very strict criteria. It goes to an administrative office where all those codes I fill out get turned into a bill.

I don't think the prices are even set to offer value for what the individual patient gets. If that makes sense. It's more like, it costs X amount of money to run the hospital, get the tests, pay the employees, etc. If your coded procedure uses up a certain percent of those resources, that's what you will pay. So, even though, nine times out of ten when I get called to a delivery, I end up drying a screaming baby, we still charge a hefty sum for that. Because you are paying not for the fact that you baby was dried off by a person with 11 years of postgraduate education , but because you are taking part in a system that allows you to have access to that person if they need to do more. If I then go into another room and save a baby's life, they are maybe charged 4-5 times as much. Even though the service provided could be thought to be worth much more than that.

Point 1 is a totally reasonable complaint. Point 2 is a really complex complaint. We're paying for people without insurance, expensive infrastructure, a culture of malpractice...and I'm sure many other things that I don't understand well myself.

 

[RachelEllen]

RachelEllen - Thank you so much for everything you and your colleagues do to help babies. I still get teary thinking about the two weeks we spent in the ICN almost 7 years ago. I hate to think how much it cost every time I cornered the doctors to ask dumb questions. But I gladly spent it (through my insurance, that is), and was grateful that some special people had dedicated their lives and gained the knowledge and experience that allowed my baby to live.

Denae

btw, questions are free, it's part of the job and we don't bill extra for it.

 

[llp479]

You can blame the insurance industry for the high price of medical care. Prior to "managed care" hospital and doctor fees were not outrageous. Then came "managed care." To show cost savings to employers, they negotiated a percentage discount from "list" price. So, what does the hospital and doctor do, raise their fees so that they are still getting the $85 for the office visit, but the bill now shows $100 and the insurance company can show the insured a 15% savings.

The only people who get stuck paying "list" price are the uninsured. Congress investigated this last year. What's ironic, is under the Medicare laws, providers are not allowed to offer "discounts" to individuals. By Medicare law, every one must be billed the SAME list price. When the hospital exec explained this to the senator who asked the question, his jaw dropped. That's why once it's turned over to a collections agency, it's OK for the agency to negotiate the discount as the hospital has already written this off to bad debt.

My daughter broke her arm two years ago and required surgery to fix it. Total bill from the hospital was over $10,000. The amount my insurance paid was under $3,000 due to the "negotiated discount." Looks like a great deal for me - right?

 

[RoyalCanadian]

I'm constantly amazed at how much my American counterparts have to pay to access medical care. I am so thankful for univesal health care in Canada.