How do people pay for medical school?

[westjones]

I realize that dental school admissions and medical admissions aren't the same, but they do share similarities.

In my son's experience, schools are looking for a well-rounded student. Over and over the question was, "How do you spend your time?" DS had a GPA of 3.6 (good, but not stellar,) worked in a very prestigious lab and held a leadership position in his fraternity. But what did 3 out of his 4 interviews focus on? The fact that he became a Penn State cheerleader on a dare and followed it through for two years. Why did they focus on that? Because it set him apart and showed his ability to manage his time.

Also, never underestimate good interview skills!

Edie

Wow....your son sounds like he did an amazing job in college. Hopefully this boy will have some good things to add to his resume. But since he has to pay for 20% of his tuition, all of his books, and if he moves out (and he wants to) his living expenses....he will most likely be working so much he won't have all of those 'extras' to add to his resume. Right now he basically goes to work, goes to school, studies, and then spends time with my DD. No time for anything else. And right now he is living at home, if he does move out and has to work more hours I really don't know how he will fit it all in.

But I wish he would do more 'extra' stuff. I wish my DD would do more 'extra' stuff. My other DD seems to "get it" that it isn't just the degree it is the "what else' that gets you hired or whatever. So she is getting involved with things and has some 'interesting' jobs to add to her resume. I am hoping my other DD matures a bit more SOON and picks it up in her Sophomore year.

As for the boy, I think he WOULD get involved in more things IF he didn't have to make so much money to cover expenses. But you do what you have to do.

 

[tomthebarncat]

I have been embedded in a military community for 25 years. If he joins the military with the hope that they will send him to medical school he is dreaming. Most the military doctors are here because they could not find residency positions. My ex is a doctor (research pathologist) he joined after medical school as he could not find a 4 year residency, the army was the only one. He paid for medical school himself with alot of loans and I am sure that he is still paying them off. They do have programs that will send promising young officers to medical school but it is usually only 1 position with hundreds of officers applying for it. This is not going to work out in his favor and he will probably be miserable on active duty and make all around him suffer too!!

 

[Bilberry]

Well, if I was to guess medical schooling costs will be coming down in the future. And overall, many Universities are looking into ways to cut costs for all their students. White collar professions are coming under pressure largely due to automation. It is similar to what happened to blue collar jobs in the 1950s and 60s.

Thought this a nice article on what we probably can expect in the health care field. Medical costs have become overly expensive, difficult to afford. The result is there will be rationing or ways will be found to lower costs. I'm guessing most will want lower costs.

"Time To Change Course on Health Care Reform"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/02/04/time-to-change-course-on-health-care-reform/

snippet:

...The federal governments tax revenue has only rarely gone as high as 20 percent of GDP; barring enormous tax increases by 2032 roughly half the governments tax revenue would go to Medicare alone and by 2082 Medicare would consume virtually every penny the government takes in  without very large tax increases or massive sustained deficits.This is just the cost of Medicarehealth care for those older than 65.
Back when I was a hopeful young sprout in Pundit School, they taught us to be careful about making predictions. But Im willing to go out on a limb here: this wont happen. Come 2032, Medicare will not be eating up 9 percent of GDP, and health care overall will not be costing 30 percent of the countrys total income. The American people will not be paying over one of every three dollars they make to buy health care.
Something will happen. Either we will ration health care much more aggressively than we do now, or we will find much more efficient ways to provide health care. I vote for the latter, and I think most Americans agree.
This means that change, not stability has to be the number one goal of serious health care reform. This isnt about propping up the current system for a few more years, or even about getting more people under the tent. Its not even about bending the cost curve; its about whether the system will break down before todays college students hit middle age. We have to learn to do health care in fundamentally new ways in the next twenty years. The changes needed are much more radical and sweeping than anything envisioned in the current legislation  and it will take a very different mindset to make them happen. The current bill is a classic example of steady state, blue social model thinking: it is more interested in keeping the status quo going by pumping more money into it than it is in the basic restructuring needed to build a system that will work in the future.
The health care of the day after tomorrow isnt going to look much like the system we have today. Futurist Ray Kurzweil and a lot of other people believe that thirty years from now computers more powerful than the most powerful supercomputers that exist in todays world are going to cost less than $1000 and fit in a device smaller than one of todays laptops....

 

[Pugdog007]

Just want to reiterate that you CAN do it without taking out a single loan, if willing to do research & teach your way through. Hubby did undergrad on a track scholarship, Phd on a research scholarship & MD on a teaching scholarship. The teaching scholarship from the med school included living expenses (a stipend). It can be done - and primary care docs are in high demand so check into it!

 

[westjones]

I have been embedded in a military community for 25 years. If he joins the military with the hope that they will send him to medical school he is dreaming. Most the military doctors are here because they could not find residency positions. My ex is a doctor (research pathologist) he joined after medical school as he could not find a 4 year residency, the army was the only one. He paid for medical school himself with alot of loans and I am sure that he is still paying them off. They do have programs that will send promising young officers to medical school but it is usually only 1 position with hundreds of officers applying for it. This is not going to work out in his favor and he will probably be miserable on active duty and make all around him suffer too!!

Oh my! It really sounds like he needs to do a lot of research. I am so hoping his current university give good counseling to their students on what they options are before they make any decision. It seems like if you don't have someone in your life (a family member or close friend of the family) who has gone through medical school, it is hard to know the ins and outs!

 

[westjones]

Just want to reiterate that you CAN do it without taking out a single loan, if willing to do research & teach your way through. Hubby did undergrad on a track scholarship, Phd on a research scholarship & MD on a teaching scholarship. The teaching scholarship from the med school included living expenses (a stipend). It can be done - and primary care docs are in high demand so check into it!

That would be a wonderful option. I will try to google some information. Of course, I am sure it is hard to get something like that. I have a feeling he will be a 'good' student, but not outstanding, and so I think finding options like this will be harder for him.

 

[Snowysmom]

My DS took out alot of loans. He also got some scholarships in 3rd and 4th years. He worked in a lab between 1st and 2nd years. He couldn't do that between 2nd and 3rd years or 3rd and 4th years since he only had June off and then started up with hospital rotations in July. We helped out a little bit but not alot. His school was around 60K per year. A few students in his class went the military route but not very many. He considers it worthwhile to him since this is the career he wants and has worked hard for.

 

[badblackpug]

I have been embedded in a military community for 25 years. If he joins the military with the hope that they will send him to medical school he is dreaming. Most the military doctors are here because they could not find residency positions. My ex is a doctor (research pathologist) he joined after medical school as he could not find a 4 year residency, the army was the only one. He paid for medical school himself with alot of loans and I am sure that he is still paying them off. They do have programs that will send promising young officers to medical school but it is usually only 1 position with hundreds of officers applying for it. This is not going to work out in his favor and he will probably be miserable on active duty and make all around him suffer too!!

This is interesting to know. The only 2 docs I know that did the military route 1njoined after he completed residency, because they offered to repay some loans, and 1 went to med school after leaving the military using the GI bill.

Most docs I know either took out a ton of loans or had parents who were able to afford to foot the bill.

Med school, residency, and fellowship (if need be) can be a very long program based on your choice of specialty. Matching for a residency is very dependent on your med school showing, and I will say that students from a more prestigious med school are given higher consideration. That's not to say that other med schools don't turn out good docs, but seeing Harvard, U of Penn, Johns Hopkins, or Stanford on your application does give a certain impresssion. Also, residency programs can be quite competitive based on specialty.

Also remember that everyone has this idea that docs make tons of money. That is also based on specialty. A family practioner devotes a ton of time, but in the scheme of things as for as.physicians salaries go, doesn't make a fortune.

One more word about about practices that offer loan repayment. These practices are almost always in "areas of need." Meaning communities that are underserved in that specialty. These are usually poor either rural or inner city communities. Who need certain types of specialties.

OP, I would have him talk to a counselor and some current or former med students so that he can see how it's done. It is not impossible, but med school is competitive. As another PP said, I'm not sure what the acceptance rates are, but I know the matriculation rates are about 40%.

 

[westjones]

My DS took out alot of loans. He also got some scholarships in 3rd and 4th years. He worked in a lab between 1st and 2nd years. He couldn't do that between 2nd and 3rd years or 3rd and 4th years since he only had June off and then started up with hospital rotations in July. We helped out a little bit but not alot. His school was around 60K per year. A few students in his class went the military route but not very many. He considers it worthwhile to him since this is the career he wants and has worked hard for.

Well this is really what he wants to do. I guess he has wanted it for a long time. So he will have to figure out if the 'cost' is worth it.

I will say, I am glad my girls are not wanting to go into something like this...and well they probably wouldn't have the ability/drive/commitment. It just seems like a big mess to try to figure this out.

 

[westjones]

OP, I would have him talk to a counselor and some current or former med students so that he can see how it's done. It is not impossible, but med school is competitive. As another PP said, I'm not sure what the acceptance rates are, but I know the matriculation rates are about 40%.

If I get the chance, I will mention this to him. I really think it helps to talk to people who have been in it and find out all you can. He needs to understand what he is facing. And he needs to know all of his options. There are lots of paths to take in the medical field that will not require so much commitment in terms of time and money. But if it is truly what he wants to do, I hope it works out for him.

 

[MrsDuck]

Our good friend is currently in his 2nd year of medical school. He has taken out loans.

 

[westjones]

Our good friend is currently in his 2nd year of medical school. He has taken out loans.

Thanks!

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

If I get the chance, I will mention this to him. I really think it helps to talk to people who have been in it and find out all you can. He needs to understand what he is facing. And he needs to know all of his options. There are lots of paths to take in the medical field that will not require so much commitment in terms of time and money. But if it is truly what he wants to do, I hope it works out for him.

OP, you obviously know this young man and none of us do, but you keep making statements along the lines of how "he needs to figure it out" and "he needs to think about it" and "he needs to understand what he is facing", as if to imply that he hasn't, won't and doesn't.

Do you think that is the case, or are you just naturally a worrier? The reason I ask is that it seems like you either don't hold him in particularly high regard or don't share his passion for this dream (which makes sense since it is not your life or dream) but either way you need to keep in mind that tens of thousands of college graduates navigate the medical school admissions process every year and for those who are drawn to medicine, they usually find a way to make it work. It's not like he's stating that he intends to win a Nobel prize, he just wants to be a doctor.

 

[westjones]

OP, you obviously know this young man and none of us do, but you keep making statements along the lines of how "he needs to figure it out" and "he needs to think about it" and "he needs to understand what he is facing", as if to imply that he hasn't, won't and doesn't.

Do you think that is the case, or are you just naturally a worrier? The reason I ask is that it seems like you either don't hold him in particularly high regard or don't share his passion for this dream (which makes sense since it is not your life or dream) but either way you need to keep in mind that tens of thousands of college graduates navigate the medical school admissions process every year and for those who are drawn to medicine, they usually find a way to make it work. It's not like he's stating that he intends to win a Nobel prize, he just wants to be a doctor.

Oh I guess I am trying to say that I know it is up to him and he needs to figure it out what is best for him. I know he wants to be a doctor and I wish him the best. But what bothers me, is my DD told me he is now planning to join the military to pay for medical school BUT he does NOT want to do this. And I am hoping he has other options and I hope the school works with students to give him advice. I do not know enough about this field to be able to give good advice. If he wanted a PhD or masters degree in something like business or social sciences.....that my DH and I understand. But medical school is something we do not know about.....and how the military works in regards to helping you get that degree....we do not know, but what I do know is that if you are only joining to get the medical degree and you do not want to be in the military, it seems like you will not be a happy person during those years. For some, they want to do this. I have a friend whose son was very excited to join the Navy and is in it now and loves it. And for him, I am very happy. But for this boy, who says he doesn't want to be in the military but sees it as his only option to get a medical degree...I hope he has other options.

 

[badblackpug]

Reading what a PP said about the military and med school I have to agree that that doesn't seem like the best route.

I'm not sure why he is so dead set against loans, because, really, that is pretty much the.norm in med school. He would be smart to stay home in undergrad andnminimize his expenses. It is beery possible to work and still do very well in undergrad. Once he gets into med school that changes.

Yes, there are other paths in the medical field but they are not the same, or even similar. I strongly suggest he talk to a academic and a financial counselor at the school so he can figure out what he needs to do academically and find out what his financial options are.

Medical education takes a lot of commitment in all areas, but if it is really what he wants to do then he should go for it. I'm not terribly familiar with immunology, but it is a subspecialty of internal medicine. In that once he completes his residency in internal medicine he will need to do a fellowship in allergy/immunology. (2 yrs) I amnnot sure how competitive it is for the fellowship positions. Also, bear in mind that matching for residency may require a move. Sometimes across the country.

My husband is a hematologst/oncologist. His path through residency is a long story, his fellowship was 3 years. We were fortunate in that he practices in an "area of need" and jobs were plentiful, but sometimes to find that big salary you need to move.

Help him find a mentor. Someone that has "been there, done that." They can give him real world advice. It's. A lot of work, but it's doable.

 

[westjones]

Reading what a PP said about the military and med school I have to agree that that doesn't seem like the best route.

I'm not sure why he is so dead set against loans, because, really, that is pretty much the.norm in med school. He would be smart to stay home in undergrad andnminimize his expenses. It is beery possible to work and still do very well in undergrad. Once he gets into med school that changes.

Yes, there are other paths in the medical field but they are not the same, or even similar. I strongly suggest he talk to a academic and a financial counselor at the school so he can figure out what he needs to do academically and find out what his financial options are.

Medical education takes a lot of commitment in all areas, but if it is really what he wants to do then he should go for it. I'm not terribly familiar with immunology, but it is a subspecialty of internal medicine. In that once he completes his residency in internal medicine he will need to do a fellowship in allergy/immunology. (2 yrs) I amnnot sure how competitive it is for the fellowship positions. Also, bear in mind that matching for residency may require a move. Sometimes across the country.

My husband is a hematologst/oncologist. His path through residency is a long story, his fellowship was 3 years. We were fortunate in that he practices in an "area of need" and jobs were plentiful, but sometimes to find that big salary you need to move.

Help him find a mentor. Someone that has "been there, done that." They can give him real world advice. It's. A lot of work, but it's doable.

Once in a while, he will join my DD and I for lunch and I sometimes have the chance to talk to him about things. I am going to suggest to him to talk to people at his college about options with regards to medical school and all the financial stuff that comes with it.

I really do think talking to someone who knows this stuff would help him figure things out. When/if I get the chance I will try to bring this up.

 

[NotUrsula]

Immunology isn't normally a clinical specialty; it is primarily a research field. Most immunologists have a Ph.D. rather than an MD, though some have both. With a Ph.D. you don't need to do a residency; you do PostDoc jobs instead.

It is really not a great idea to take out a lot of loans for a Ph.D. in a medical field; research doesn't pay nearly as well as clinical practice.

 

[westjones]

Immunology isn't normally a clinical specialty; it is primarily a research field. Most immunologists have a Ph.D. rather than an MD, though some have both. With a Ph.D. you don't need to do a residency; you do PostDoc jobs instead.

It is really not a great idea to take out a lot of loans for a Ph.D. in a medical field; research doesn't pay nearly as well as clinical practice.

Oh, I didn't know that (but like I said, I don't know much about the medical field). I assumed this would be like allergy doctors.

 

[dsneprincess]

The doctors I know all took out oodles of loans. Most of them regret the choice to become doctors now (not because of the loans, but because of how the medical environment has changed in recent years).

This appears to be right on from what I have seen as well.

 

[badblackpug]

Oh, I didn't know that (but like I said, I don't know much about the medical field). I assumed this would be like allergy doctors. But he didn't say that, it was my assumption. I just asked him once what kind of doctor he wanted to be and he said immunologist and I just remember thinking that was a new one to me (and later I thought maybe that was what allergy doctors study).

I don't think he thinks this is going to be a PhD field. He specifically mentioned medical school. So I wonder if he really understands all of this.

Honestly.....I do like the boy, I don't want it to come across that I don't.....but I have found that I can have a conversation with him one time and then another later one and will hear different information from him, and it doesn't always make sense (not just about medical school, but about many things).

Like he said he got this job on the spot at the university, I questioned it because they don't usually hire right on the spot the call you later (a few years ago I worked in Human Resources at the university). But he assured me he did get it.....then later admitted that no he didn't get the job only that they said they would call him for an interview, but they never did (since then he did get a better job at the university so it all worked out).

But he speaks in very 'exact' statements as if he 'knows' what he is talking about, but then things are wrong or he changes what he says and will say he didn't say the first thing if that makes sense.....don't mean to say he lies, he just seems to talk faster than he thinks and seems to want to appear to 'know it all' and never admit he isn't sure of things.....anyway......this is very interesting to know, if that field really is a PhD field that would be a whole new direction. And then you can be a grad assistant and that pays for school---which is what my DH did for 4 years to get his PhD.

Allergy and immunology is most definitely a medical field. It is a subspecialty of internal medicine. He would do a residency in internal med then a 2 year fellowship in allergy/immunology.