How do parents & teachers feel about this bill?

[LisaR]

Would this be done during a period at school? if not, what about students that don't have access to the internet at home?

It can be. Right now a student in my district can take online classes from their own home OR they can take an online class right at the high school. I believe this is a statewide option.

I do think making a virtual class mandatory is a good thing. My DD is dual enrolled at the local community college. Most of the class time is used for teaching (novel idea). The teachers do not mention the assignments at all. It is up to the student to access them online. DD is amazed how many 20 y/o don't have a clue how the online system works. These are kids that spend hours in front of a computer but they can't seem to figure out how to get their assignments and grades online. Odd.

 

[daughtersrus]

It can be. Right now a student in my district can take online classes from their own home OR they can take an online class right at the high school. I believe this is a statewide option.

I do think making a virtual class mandatory is a good thing. My DD is dual enrolled at the local community college. Most of the class time is used for teaching (novel idea). The teachers do not mention the assignments at all. It is up to the student to access them online. DD is amazed how many 20 y/o don't have a clue how the online system works. These are kids that spend hours in front of a computer but they can't seem to figure out how to get their assignments and grades online. Odd.

If it's available at school, I'd assume that it would be instead of regular class. If it's not available at school, it can be a huge problem for students that don't have a computer or internet connection at home.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

According to that bill that was posted they are going to start requiring BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY and PHYSICS. It sounds to me like they don't require any science now. There isn't much else in the science field besides these three basics.

There are some lower level sciences posted. (i.e. In Louisiana, I had to take "Physical Science"--not physics...but like pre-pre-physics. Waste of time!)

Did a quick google and this was on the Pasco County site--I think the bill just goes further to declare a specific course verses a generality.

I think the addition of Algebra II is maybe b/c it is needed to do Physics. I don't really remember. However when I took it years ago--you had to have already had Trig or be taking Trig at the same time. But three high schools--I don't know which state required that.

I don't feel these should be on a standard diploma--but I do wonder if it is just a clarification to specify courses on a college prep diploma.


Page 4 of this document list the variations of a Florida diploma...
http://www.gulf.k12.fl.us/Documents/Grad Requirements/dps-2009-159a.pdf

English
4 credits with concentration in composition and literature.


Mathematics
3 Credits: One of these credits must be Algebra I, a series of courses equivalent to Algebra I, or a higher level mathematics course.
The following courses or series of courses satisfy the Algebra I graduation requirement:

Algebra I
Algebra I Honors
Algebra Ia and Algebra IB
Applied Mathematics I and Applied Mathematics II
Integrated Mathematics I and Integrated Mathematics II


Science

3 Credits: 2 credits must be earned in courses with laboratory components.
Agriscience Foundations I is an approved science credit.

Social Studies

1 Credit in American History
and
1 Credit in World History, including a comparative study of the history, doctrines, and objectives of all major political systems
and
1/2 Credit in American Government, including a study of the Constitution of the United States. the study of Florida government, including study of the State Constitution, the three branches of state government,
and municipal and county government, shall be included as part of the required study of American government and
1/2 Credit in Economics, including a comparative study of the history, doctrines, and objectives of all major economic systems.



Physical Education

1/2 Credit (physical education course)
and
1/2 Credit (personal fitness)


Personal Fitness (1501300) or Adaptive Physical Education I.E.P (1500300) will continue to be required to meet one-half credit of this requirement, and any physical education course will meet the other one-half credit.

Participation in an interscholastic sport at the junior varsity or varsity level for two full seasons shall satisfy the physical education graduation requirement if the student passes a district adopted competency test on personal fitness with a score of “C” or better.

All Notes:
Students choosing to meet the physical education requirement by participating in two full seasons of interscholastic sports and passing the competency test meet the physical education graduation requirement but do not receive course credit. The Physical Education requirement will be met but the student will not receive the credit.

Completion of one semester with a grade of “C” or better in a marching band class or in a physical activity class that requires participation in marching band activities as an extracurricular activity shall satisfy a one-half credit requirement in physical education. Completion of one semester with a grade of “C’ or better in an ROTC class that includes a significant component of drills will also satisfy one-half credit in physical education. This one-half credit may not be used to satisfy the personal fitness requirement or the requirement for adaptive physical education under an individual educational plan (IEP) or 504 plan.

Practical Arts/Performing Fine Arts

1 credit in practical arts career education
or 1 credit in performing fine arts
or 1/2 credit each in practical arts career education and 1/2 credit in performing fine arts.


Life Management

1/2 credit including consumer education, positive emotional development, marriage and relationship skill-based education, nutrition, prevention of human immunodeficiency virus infection and acquired immune deficiency syndrome and other sexually transmissible diseases, benefits of sexual abstinence and consequences of teenage pregnancy, information and instruction on breast cancer detection and breast self-examination, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, drug education, the hazards of smoking, and parenting skills.


Electives

8-1/2 credits


Total = 24 credits and pass the tenth grade Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test (FCAT) and the achievement of a cumulative grade point average of 2.0000 on a 4.0000 scale (unweighted Grade Point Average/GPA).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I can't for the life of me imagine an employee that would favor being evaluated based on his performance if he had other options. Sadly, every job that I've ever held has based my advancement/increases on my performance (with the exception of an adjunct professor position that I once held part-time).

That being said, while I doubt that the bill is the perfect solution, it does move in the correct direction.

Agreed....

While a FL teacher (or any teacher) is free to clarify how raises occur....

It seems to me that raises are automatic regardless. To lose out on a guarantee is very scary especially in a classroom environment with difficult students that impair a teachers abilities to get the message cross.

But I am having a difficult time believing that every student in the US is out to get the teachers and that no teacher as a result would get a merit raise.

A flip side on teh blueberry story would be a store manager who cannot control inventory loss. He claims he has no control over his clientele b/c anybody is allowed to go--grocery shopping.

So year after year, he loses tons of inventory--then they wish to hold him accountable. He can continue complaining, or he can install security camers, security systems and instill other measures to reduce the liklihood of theft. while it will still occur, he can at least mitigate the losses.

My thoughts are probably naive--so no need to insult my intelligence or anything or the fact that I "just don't get it".

But when the majority of teachers have these complaints--yet year after year, MOST students at large get promoted to the next grade, one has to wonder how much merit there is in such a sweeping generalization of what a teacher can and cannot control.

The doctor comparison is used--and often mentioned, what about his inability to cure patients. Well, doctors are in the business of treating patients. And if a doctor says--you have cancer, you will die and then moves onto the next patient...he's not going to be a doctor for very long, right?

I don't know how one goes about measuring for merit.

What I do know is that it isn't the end of the world and that no profession should have an "auto" raise for just being employed (perhaps outside of a COL increase).

I'm also not a fan of tenure. But not sure how that plays in the public school system. I know at the Universit I graduated from that they had such a thing. I don't know much about it other than it is a more job security.

 

[kimmar067]

I think thank goodness I don't live in Florida. But I'm very curious to see how it plays out.

..yikes! Me too...

 

[LisaR]

If it's available at school, I'd assume that it would be instead of regular class. If it's not available at school, it can be a huge problem for students that don't have a computer or internet connection at home.

Correct. It would replace the regular class. You could opt to take any core class in a regular classroom OR you could skip the classroom and take it online.

Page 4 of this document list the variations of a Florida diploma...
http://www.gulf.k12.fl.us/Documents/Grad Requirements/dps-2009-159a.pdf

The thing that is screwy about FL H.S. graduation requirements are that they do not coincide with the state colleges. If you look at the chart you posted, it only requires 3 years of math and 3 years of science for the advance track, 3 year H.S. program. To get into UF or FSU, they require 4 years of math and 4 years of science as an entering freshman. So while it is possible at the moment to graduate from H.S. in FL with only 3 years of math & science, it wouldn't make sense if you plan to go to college.

It is my understanding that entering freshman for 2010/2011 school year will be required to have four years of math/science to graduate in FL. When this was decided, it was not necessary to have the higher level classes if you weren't college prep. SB 4 would require everyone to have the higher levels.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I can't for the life of me imagine an employee that would favor being evaluated based on his performance if he had other options. Sadly, every job that I've ever held has based my advancement/increases on my performance (with the exception of an adjunct professor position that I once held part-time).

That being said, while I doubt that the bill is the perfect solution, it does move in the correct direction.

Where do you see that they do not want to be evaluated based on their performance?! How do you think teachers are currently evaluated?

 

[moburg]

Me, too. Every year teachers at my school get pink slipped, some due to performance issues.

You need to look into the New York public schools. They put teachers who have been deemed incompetent, violent, or guilty of sexual misconduct into "rubber rooms", paying them instead to read magazines, play cards, and chat, at a cost to New York taxpayers of $20 million a year. All because the unions make it so difficult to fire a teacher.

 

[RitaZ.]

You need to look into the New York public schools. They put teachers who have been deemed incompetent, violent, or guilty of sexual misconduct into "rubber rooms", paying them instead to read magazines, play cards, and chat, at a cost to New York taxpayers of $20 million a year. All because the unions make it so difficult to fire a teacher.

I'm in S. FL and that's the typical punishment that those teachers get. They're "reassigned" while the investigation takes place.

Our teachers here are unionized. It is a difficult and lengthy process to fire an incompetent teacher. My DD's first K teacher was deemed incompetent. She taught 4th graders, but was moved to K, where she could cause the least damage. The 4th graders that she taught were totally unprepared when they reached 5th grade. This happened for several years before she was moved to K, when a new principal came on board. I know all this because one of our friends worked at the school and had all the inside information. I knew nothing about the teacher. Our friend ran into DH at Publix and told him to get DD out of the teacher's class. I had my children reassigned to another school within the first two weeks of school, but that's another story. The following year, that teacher "left" the school. She wasn't officially fired, but they came up with some CYA excuse. How much damage did she cause? Who was looking out for the students?

Bad teachers give good teachers a bad name. Sadly, bad teachers are the most salient. They are the ones that we hear about most often. It's rare to hear or read about good teachers in the newspapers or TV. Those negative stories overshadow the good ones and thus perpetuate a negative opinion of teachers. Just this week, there have been 3 teachers on our local news (males) that were charged with engaging in sexual acts with students; two were from a private school and the other from a public school. Care to guess how many good teachers have made the local headlines this week? ZERO!

 

[MM27]

Have you ever heard of a teacher being actually FIRED for bad performance? I haven't and don't give me that line about how can they evaluate teachers the good teachers know who the bad teachers are. I had a teacher tell me she knew which students had a particular math teacher the year before because they hadn't learned anything from this teacher and she had to teach them what they should have learned the year before while at the same time teaching her own subject.

I have seen people fired for poor performance.

 

[joviroxx]

I have an honest question... How exactly, are teachers evaluated? Do principals sit in? Is it just from word of mouth of parents? Test scores of the kids? Ive always wondered this. Is there a formal evaluation method? Who decides and how is it decided if a teacher is incompetent or if the teacher is exceptional?

Personally, although I do not favor the method that Florida is going to use, I do feel there needs to be a way to evaluate a teacher and there is no reason why teachers could or could not be paid/bonused/raised, etc based on performance evaluation. This is why I ask the questions. How is it done now?

From what understand, using the FCATs is not a requirements. They can use a baseline test given at the beginning of the year where a test at the end of the year can assess progress. No one is saying schools will be assessed against other kids but against gains made throughout the year. Its not about asking teachers to get these kids to a certain level, but to show that the kids they teach are gaining.

 

[taylor3297]

I have an honest question... How exactly, are teachers evaluated? Do principals sit in? Is it just from word of mouth of parents? Test scores of the kids? Ive always wondered this. Is there a formal evaluation method? Who decides and how is it decided if a teacher is incompetent or if the teacher is exceptional?

Personally, although I do not favor the method that Florida is going to use, I do feel there needs to be a way to evaluate a teacher and there is no reason why teachers could or could not be paid/bonused/raised, etc based on performance evaluation. This is why I ask the questions. How is it done now?

A few pages back I explained how my evaluations where done when I was a still teaching.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I have an honest question... How exactly, are teachers evaluated? Do principals sit in? Is it just from word of mouth of parents? Test scores of the kids? Ive always wondered this. Is there a formal evaluation method? Who decides and how is it decided if a teacher is incompetent or if the teacher is exceptional?

Personally, although I do not favor the method that Florida is going to use, I do feel there needs to be a way to evaluate a teacher and there is no reason why teachers could or could not be paid/bonused/raised, etc based on performance evaluation. This is why I ask the questions. How is it done now?

From what understand, using the FCATs is not a requirements. They can use a baseline test given at the beginning of the year where a test at the end of the year can assess progress. No one is saying schools will be assessed against other kids but against gains made throughout the year. Its not about asking teachers to get these kids to a certain level, but to show that the kids they teach are gaining.

Parents are not involved at all (at least not where I work and not in my sons' schools). Principals visit the rooms quite often for formal and informal evalutions and observations. Lesson plans are submitted. There are other matters, such as attendance, ability to work in a team, etc. Plus, students' scores are submitted to the principal and other administrative staff quite often. If there is not progress in many of the students, that would be a red flag for more observations. This happens throughout the year, not just at the end.

 

[joviroxx]

A few pages back I explained how my evaluations where done when I was a still teaching.

Parents are not involved at all (at least not where I work and not in my sons' schools). Principals visit the rooms quite often for formal and informal evalutions and observations. Lesson plans are submitted. There are other matters, such as attendance, ability to work in a team, etc. Plus, students' scores are submitted to the principal and other administrative staff quite often. If there is not progress in many of the students, that would be a red flag for more observations. This happens throughout the year, not just at the end.

Thank you both for your replies. I should have been more specific. I was wondering about Florida. My sister has been a Dade County public school teacher here in FL for 17 years. My kids go to private school so Im not up with public school policies. Id been trying to get a hold of her since yesterday to discuss all of this and she actually called as I was hitting the post button. She is actually very much for this new legislation and I see her points.

With the union down here, it is very difficult to make a case against poor performance. She thinks this is a step in the right direction.

 

[LisaR]

Thank you both for your replies. I should have been more specific. I was wondering about Florida. My sister has been a Dade County public school teacher here in FL for 17 years. My kids go to private school so Im not up with public school policies. Id been trying to get a hold of her since yesterday to discuss all of this and she actually called as I was hitting the post button. She is actually very much for this new legislation and I see her points.

With the union down here, it is very difficult to make a case against poor performance. She thinks this is a step in the right direction.

Wow! I have been on many of the local (FL) message boards and I think she is the only teacher in the state that is in favor of this. The teachers are lambasting both SB4 & SB6.

 

[MM27]

I have an honest question... How exactly, are teachers evaluated? Do principals sit in? Is it just from word of mouth of parents? Test scores of the kids? Ive always wondered this. Is there a formal evaluation method? Who decides and how is it decided if a teacher is incompetent or if the teacher is exceptional?

I explained my evaluations a few pages back too. Principals do formal and informal observations. Parents? What would they have to do with evaluations?

Our evaluations are broken down into several categories and we can get Needs Improvement, Basic, Proficient and Distinguished on each section. There also is a spot on the final evaluation of the year where the supervisor checks off whether we are recommended for our increment or not. Before anyone receives tenure in my district, you have to be observed by the director of Elementary or Secondary Education each year (3 years). They have a final say in that along with the principals (we have 3 in my school). Superintendent also does observations when he feels like it. We have a set number of formal observations each year but the Superintendent and Director ones are not counted as part of that number.

 

[NotAmused]

Well, since it looks like this thing will become reality, I'm hoping that they make adjustments and tweak it to actually make sense. I have no problem being evaluated on my performance, but evaluate me on things I can control.

I can teach a lesson 10 different ways to help a child understand and even bribe them, but there is always one child every year who either has no motivation/interest to learn OR a child with poor attendance. I always try everything I can to motivate that child and never give up, but if some of the parents don't place an importance on school to motivate the child or even get them to school, how is the child supposed to learn? How can a child receive a quality education and make gains when his/her parents allow them to be absent 1-3 days a week? These situations need to also be addressed by the state as it is not just the teachers' fault.

 

[joviroxx]

Wow! I have been on many of the local (FL) message boards and I think she is the only teacher in the state that is in favor of this. The teachers are lambasting both SB4 & SB6.

Yeah, my sis is one of a kind LOL.. She's also not a union member and she tells me her principal isn't unhappy with it either.

 

[joviroxx]

I explained my evaluations a few pages back too. Principals do formal and informal observations. Parents? What would they have to do with evaluations?
.

I only mentioned parents as I didnt know if there were any formal observations. In lieu of formal observations, I was , at the time, wondering how they got their input. I was just throwing out questions as to what ways principals or administrators got their evaluation criteria. From reading, I see, many districts, do in fact, have formal observations.

 

[taylor1293]

Thank you both for your replies. I should have been more specific. I was wondering about Florida. My sister has been a Dade County public school teacher here in FL for 17 years. My kids go to private school so Im not up with public school policies. Id been trying to get a hold of her since yesterday to discuss all of this and she actually called as I was hitting the post button. She is actually very much for this new legislation and I see her points.

With the union down here, it is very difficult to make a case against poor performance. She thinks this is a step in the right direction.

As a teacher in the state of Florida, so far, I'd say your sister is the lone teacher supporter.

Anyway, as a teacher in Florida, we are assessed by all the methods you have already read about from the other teachers who have posted here. In addition, at my school we are required attend a minimum of 2 hours of meetings a week and attend trainings in our content area on Saturday's/evenings throughout the school year.

We also must participate in all family nights, attend student functions, etc. It's all part of being a team player. And no, they can't truly "require" those additional after hours activities, but our principal does note them on our formal evaluations. .

As for this bill being good because it's impossible to make a case against poor performance (which I disagree with). They are punishing the whole, for the sins of a handful.