How Bad are the Crowds, Really?

[Remy is Up]

That's reasonable but only to a certain point. When WDW reduces operation hours and staff, there are in essence manipulating a more crowded experience for guests. That's where I'm starting to feel defensive. The more we are paying, the easier it is to become dissatisfied. I'm willing to pay more; I'm not willing to pay more and have an incrementally worse trip each year.

It's kind of like having their cake and eating it too. You can't raise prices near 50% over 5 years and explain the intention is to ease congestion while you also cut back opex significantly making crowds and park flow worse. Just doesn't fly.

And I do get that. But that brings us to the "value" to the individual part what is value to one may not be to another. If the crowds were keeping us from enjoying our trips. We would stop going. As it stands it has value for us because we go in understanding what to expect and work around it. Obviously there will be a point of diminishing returns for everyone. And at that point you wash your hands of it because reality is it wont change unless the company starts seeing a decline in profit and isnt pleasing the investors or guests. It is like I tell people about others. Know what to expect from someone and when that's all they provide you arent surprised because you expected it. I expect disney to be crowded for a myriad of reasons. But I'm still riding what I want, enjoying the things I enjoy, and seeing value. I havent lowered my expectations. I just realize crowds are part of the equation due to varying factors and work around it rather than incessantly complaining and acting surprised when I know better and should plan for it accordingly

 

[disneysteve]

Obviously there will be a point of diminishing returns for everyone. And at that point you wash your hands of it because reality is it wont change unless the company starts seeing a decline in profit

Exactly. Last year, they reported lower attendance but higher revenue. That's great for stockholders and not so great for guests. That formula only works for so long, though. Eventually, it hits a breaking point when enough guests say, "No more" and stop coming.

Disney has absolutely done things to boost crowds and squeeze more money out of guests, and it's a business so that's kind of their job, but that doesn't mean we all have to like it. We need to vote with our wallets. That might mean going less often or for shorter visits or not going at all. It might mean staying offsite instead of onsite. It might mean driving down and eating more meals offsite even when staying onsite. I can tell you that we spend less time and money on property than we used to because prices have gone up so much. For example, there are a number of Disney snacks that I love and just don't buy anymore because I think the cost has gotten ridiculous. We go to the supermarket when we get down there and stock up on snacks I can carry with me in the parks rather than buying Disney snacks.

 

[ISUamanda]

They don’t need a fifth WDW park. They need a third US Castle park, somewhere in like Iowa or Ohio or whatever.

Didn't Walt originally scout Missouri for WDW? Maybe time to revive that plan

 

[Remy is Up]

Exactly. Last year, they reported lower attendance but higher revenue. That's great for stockholders and not so great for guests. That formula only works for so long, though. Eventually, it hits a breaking point when enough guests say, "No more" and stop coming.

Disney has absolutely done things to boost crowds and squeeze more money out of guests, and it's a business so that's kind of their job, but that doesn't mean we all have to like it. We need to vote with our wallets. That might mean going less often or for shorter visits or not going at all. It might mean staying offsite instead of onsite. It might mean driving down and eating more meals offsite even when staying onsite. I can tell you that we spend less time and money on property than we used to because prices have gone up so much. For example, there are a number of Disney snacks that I love and just don't buy anymore because I think the cost has gotten ridiculous. We go to the supermarket when we get down there and stock up on snacks I can carry with me in the parks rather than buying Disney snacks.

Exactly. You are only spending on what you believe is valuable to you. I think a lot of us are on the same page. Everyone has their limitation and will go until that limitation is met. We live here so staying on site isnt something we do as much due to day trips on weekends. But, we are looking at Memorial day for a staycation. We initially looked at a couple of the deluxe resorts and decided Coronado was a better value for us, so this time it will be Coronado for a couple of nights. Saves us money to use on nice meals and having TIW helps with that as well. We all adjust as we deem necessary and in the way that we feel serves us best. We can all dislike the choices or business decisions but it doesnt have to have an adverse effect if you adjust. And if the effect is that bad, you make a value judgement and stop going completely.
It remains to be seen how they adjust their business plan or what moves they make. I still feel there will be another ticket increase in July or so and then another next Jan/Feb. And at some point you hit the tipping point where prices/ gross revenue/profit are at balance and they cant go higher with prices for fear of seeing the opposite side of the books start to decline.

 

[disneysteve]

It remains to be seen how they adjust their business plan or what moves they make. I still feel there will be another ticket increase in July or so and then another next Jan/Feb. And at some point you hit the tipping point where prices/ gross revenue/profit are at balance and they cant go higher with prices for fear of seeing the opposite side of the books start to decline.

I think the next recession is going to hit Disney hard. If you think there have been cutbacks now, just wait.

 

[Remy is Up]

I think the next recession is going to hit Disney hard. If you think there have been cutbacks now, just wait.

Im not so sure. I think this is a company that learned from the last one and that is why the diversified the business so much. I think in a recession everyone gets hit so noone is going to not feel it. But, Disney has created a cash chest and can likely prop up the parks side a bit easier this time with cash from other ends of the business. Sure they will use the downturn to do "cuts" but, I have a feeling they are one company that can ride things out a while. There are a few companies like that and they get by.

 

[Princess2R]

It is absolutely getting more crowded. I was there on weekdays in feb that were not holiday weekends and i was shocked by the thickness of the crowds and the wait times. The last time i went was when it was 90 degrees in the summer and i feel like the melting weather thinned the crowds ever so slightly.

 

[OhMickeyUrSoFine]

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to expect a straight up ban on strollers. Restrictions on size? Sure, but a limit on how many can enter the park, or a ban? No way. And I say that as a non parent who wouldn't be affected either way by a ban or a limit. I do believe another gate would help disperse crowds. But there's also the thought that a 5th gate would just bring more people so who knows? Certainly not me. Our 2020 trip is going to determine whether or not we bother coming again in the future.
We plan on doing what we can to keep it as leisurely as possible. What are some tips? A lot of videos I see recommend going early mornings and staying later, since the parks see their peak numbers late morning and mid day.
Is there any truth to that?

Agree. As a local to WDW, rope drop and out before 9:30 AM and 1.5 hours before closing is the only enjoyable time to go now. Anything else is just too understaffed and crowded with upset/tired guests for very valid reasons.

 

[Remy is Up]

As a local we also do the morning thing and then after doing what we want generally hop to epcot or ak because we find it easier to relax there and have drinks or whatever. We only do evenings on staycations, after hours, or someone is in town who wants to see a nighttime show.

 

[sghokie]

I just got back from a week long trip last week, one thing is for sure, if I had never been there before I would never go back. They really need to put back the longer hours. HS closing at 8pm is ridiculous when they have installed 2 new massive areas, MK closing at 9 when the place is packed all day long is lame. I didn't even make it to AK because when that place is crowded there is no where to walk.

 

[Boopuff]

Reading some of this makes me sad and angry. Disney knows what's going on. I'm not sure why they don't lengthen hours at some of the parks to take the heat off of HS. All of us armchair quarterbacks all have great ideas. I'm sure in a boardroom somewhere......

 

[sghokie]

Reading some of this makes me sad and angry. Disney knows what's going on. I'm not sure why they don't lengthen hours at some of the parks to take the heat off of HS. All of us armchair quarterbacks all have great ideas. I'm sure in a boardroom somewhere......

I think they are looking at pure dollars earned per day or per hour. Likely they tally up the costs and see 8-10PM as earning them less money per hour.

 

[disneysteve]

I just got back from a week long trip last week, one thing is for sure, if I had never been there before I would never go back. They really need to put back the longer hours. HS closing at 8pm is ridiculous when they have installed 2 new massive areas, MK closing at 9 when the place is packed all day long is lame.

I think part of the reason they close early is because it reduces maintenance costs. If attractions operate 3 or 4 more hours per day they wear out and need repairs more often. And of course they are charging the same price for a shorter day so they rake in more money that way. They don’t care about guest experience anymore sadly.

 

[ClapYourHands]

I just got back from a week long trip last week, one thing is for sure, if I had never been there before I would never go back. They really need to put back the longer hours. HS closing at 8pm is ridiculous when they have installed 2 new massive areas, MK closing at 9 when the place is packed all day long is lame. I didn't even make it to AK because when that place is crowded there is no where to walk.

Sorry you had such a hard time with the crowds during your trip. I agree that extending park hours would go a long way towards a better experience. I think first time visitors are going to be turned off by the issues we see, and not knowing enough to have good work-arounds to deal with them.

Interestingly, I think AK is a great place to be when there are large crowds. If the lines are ridiculous, I can always go look at gorillas, and FOTLK and Nemo are great air-conditioned places that accommodate lots of guests.

 

[TomicalJM]

They really just need to increase the hours. I was at Disneyland last month and between DCA and DL their closing times were 11pm and midnight respectively. It’s crazy that 9pm is the normal at WDW when the crowds here are even larger.

 

[sam1998]

My first trip was in 2013 when my son was 4. We went in September, a very slow time, and it often felt like we were the only people in the park. And yet, the hours were often later than they are now. It makes zero sense to me. I remember going in October of 2015, also low crowds, and having MK stay open very late (not an extra paid ticket, just regular hours). And yet it seems like that is a rarity nowadays.

 

[Remy is Up]

I believe they will adjust the hours now that we are heading into F&G and Spring Break season. This has been a perfect storm since Mid January. Im not convinced extending hours wouldve done much good, as the crowds are the crowds regardless of hours open. The only one I agree with completely si that the move to 8AM at Studios rather than 7AM changed the game in that park. For those of us who can work the FP+ there was little effect, but for others it had an effect. We shall see how they do things moving forward.

 

[wareagle57]

They don’t need a fifth WDW park. They need a third US Castle park, somewhere in like Iowa or Ohio or whatever.

Heck they could even build it in North Florida or South Georgia/Alabama/Louisiana. Keep the year round warm weather. People would still go because it would be a new park like visiting Disneyland or Tokyo. But people that normally drive would make disneyland north fl their usual trip like west coast people do DL instead, whereas international and people who have to fly anyway like the Midwest and New England will continue to choose WDW.

 

[livingthedream]

I have a somewhat different opinion to what I've been seeing here recently. I believe WDW was watching the crowd levels, and was trying to adapt their opening hours somewhat in the first couple of months after RotR opened. They were changing/increasing/experimenting/tinkering with their hours a little bit at first, albeit not to the extent that anyone wanted. I think they were trying to figure out what the long-term demand would be for RotR after the Christmas crowds in theory left within the context of what they experienced with Smugglers Run last year.

Then they had to shut down their parks in Asia in reaction to the coronavirus, which I'm sure has been a huge hit to their company's bottom line globally, which yes, will actually impact their budgets at WDW. This has significantly reduced their ability to respond to larger crowds at WDW, and obviously adds another layer of complexity for the decision-makers about park hours.

I really want to believe they wanted to be a bit more flexible than they currently are (maybe not as much as we would all like, but still better than what everyone is currently experiencing). But whatever opportunity for flexibility they may have had in January has now been erased because of the financial impacts of the closure of their parks in Asia because of the coronavirus.

[Mods, please don't close this thread if your search sees the word coronavirus. I just add this as an element that is influencing current financial decisions at WDW. I believe this to be a viable option as to why hours have not been expanded at DHS]

 

[DisLiss]

And more frightening they indicate that they may adjust their numbering to make some of these 10s into 9s and 8s (lending credence to the “that’s just how it is now” crowd).

I feel like they should just let their scales go up to 11 & 12. I figure people already know what a 9 or 10 feels like and if you change what it means, then it's not as helpful. If you tell me the park is a 12 that definitely catches my attention after years of 10 being the "worst".

Kind of like places being warmer than used to be. We say this location used to average 105 degrees and now it averages 107 degrees. We don't change what 105 degrees means.