How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[mnrose]

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you:

911 caller: There's a guy here with a gun!
Dispatch: Is the gun out?
911 caller: No, but I can see it sticking out of his waistband and he's acting in a threating way.
Dispatch: Ok, call us back when the gun is out.

911 caller: There's a guy here with a gun!
Dispatch: Is the gun out?
911 caller: Yes, he took it out and is holding it in his hand and waving it around
Dispatch: Has he shot anyone?
911 caller: Ok, call us back when he shoots someone

Eventually, we are going to get to the point where no police are dispatched until ACTUAL, VIOLENT crime has occurred. And you'll be lucky if shey show up within 45 minutes because there won't be many cops left. I can see fewer and fewer entering the field.

No one said the cops shouldn't respond. But shooting someone while two people have him restrained on the ground hardly seems the appropriate response to someone merely possessing a firearm....for the all the officers knew at that point, perhaps legal possession.

 

[wilkeliza]

I am so sick and tired of hearing these same old stories---

no one ever mentions that if these people werent doing what they werent supposed to be doing in the first place whether it be stealing raping or anything else they feel they have the right to do

at the very least if they just do what their told to do none of this would happen either

I just hate all these videos people are always taking--first off if I see people fighting Im going to call police even if one is an officer Im certainly not going to video it

these videos never show what lead up to the person getting shot--waving a gun at an officer-hitting him with there car and any number of things

where I live we had an mentally ill person sleeping in the park that was kicked out of the his house cause the family couldnt handle him didnt comply with the officer--officer feared for his safety and shot--officer didnt know what was the issue with the guy

then the family was all upset--well why did they kick him out why didnt they get help for him??

on top of all this it happened at a vetrans park that city leaders where actually thinking of changing the name of the park to the guy that was shot there!!!!!!!!!

WTH city hall got so much flak it was dropped give me a flipping break

none of this is going to end until people learn to act like civilized human beings

At least one of these men had a broken tail light that was all the officer knew at the time. A broken light and was a permit holder and carrier who warned the officer of his weapon. He was a civilized human being with a steady job. They haven't been able to find a single negative thing about him.

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you:

911 caller: There's a guy here with a gun!
Dispatch: Is the gun out?
911 caller: No, but I can see it sticking out of his waistband and he's acting in a threating way.
Dispatch: Ok, call us back when the gun is out.

911 caller: There's a guy here with a gun!
Dispatch: Is the gun out?
911 caller: Yes, he took it out and is holding it in his hand and waving it around
Dispatch: Has he shot anyone?
911 caller: Ok, call us back when he shoots someone

Eventually, we are going to get to the point where no police are dispatched until ACTUAL, VIOLENT crime has occurred. And you'll be lucky if shey show up within 45 minutes because there won't be many cops left. I can see fewer and fewer entering the field.

In any of these situaions a police officer should be able to respond, defuse, and detain. There is no reason we should shoot first and ask questions later. Any police officer that is dispatched for such a patrol should have training in how to diffuse a situation. Sure when someone else has a gun out and is brandishing it pull your weapon too but first try to detain instead of shoot to kill.

 

[mnrose]

As a woman said on our news tonight, there are no "buts" in this case. No criminal record. Good person. Apparently, it was his habit to buy lunches for kids who couldn't afford them. Sounds like a terrible person, right? Nope. No buts here. This is just a man killed for a dumb *** reason or worse, no reason at all.

 

[JillianMarie]

I am so sick and tired of hearing these same old stories---

no one ever mentions that if these people werent doing what they werent supposed to be doing in the first place whether it be stealing raping or anything else they feel they have the right to do

at the very least if they just do what their told to do none of this would happen either

I just hate all these videos people are always taking--first off if I see people fighting Im going to call police even if one is an officer Im certainly not going to video it

these videos never show what lead up to the person getting shot--waving a gun at an officer-hitting him with there car and any number of things

where I live we had an mentally ill person sleeping in the park that was kicked out of the his house cause the family couldnt handle him didnt comply with the officer--officer feared for his safety and shot--officer didnt know what was the issue with the guy

then the family was all upset--well why did they kick him out why didnt they get help for him??

on top of all this it happened at a vetrans park that city leaders where actually thinking of changing the name of the park to the guy that was shot there!!!!!!!!!

WTH city hall got so much flak it was dropped give me a flipping break

none of this is going to end until people learn to act like civilized human beings

I guess at that point we should just scrap the court system altogether. If we're to a point where we're saying that a potential crime is worth the death penalty without being convicted of anything then it's time to admit that due process just isn't necessary anymore. I mean, it'll probably saved lot of time and resources in the end if we just stop having trials so I suppose that's something.

 

[JimMIA]

It isn't fighting to ask why you are being detained or to refuse an unlawful/unwarranted search of your belongings.

Of course not. But neither is the officer required to give you an answer to those questions. Depending on what the officer is working, they might be dangerously foolish to tell you why they stopped you, and they have absolutely no obligation to tell you.

I would not physically "resist arrest" on purpose,

which begs the question -- is it possible to physically resist arrest NOT on purpose?

If someone is gonna arrest me, my Miranda rights should be read,

Um...no. You might want to Google before posting. Miranda has nothing to do with arrest. There are many non-arrest situations where Miranda is required, and many arrest situations where it is not required. You need to know what Miranda is about before you start talking about it.

If they are just hassling me (not giving me a ticket or anything), I'm going to ask if I'm under arrest and if not I'm going to ask (politely) if we can say our goodbyes.

And they'll say yes or no, but you are well within your rights to ask.

If they ask to search my trunk but don't give me a warrant or a reason, I might say no.

That's fine. They don't need your consent if they have sufficient probable cause. And if they don't, they won't search.

Yeah I might take a ride somewhere so they can finally search it and find I have nothing or we might sit by the road waiting for hours.

You'll sit by the side of the road for 4-6 hours until they get a warrant if they have any sense. No rush, they get paid the same -- probably even make overtime.

But searching without cause should not be made easy for them.

No it absolutely should not be made easy for them. It would be a violation of your rights to search without sufficient probable cause.

And my cellphone and that of my companions is always recording if we are pulled over.

So will their body cams and dash cams. Who cares?

And there is an attorney on speed dial.

Now, that will have them shaking in their boots!!!

 

[asta]

So if they told you to strip naked, would you? If they requested your cell phone for no reason...just so they could see who you called, would you? Where does the compliance stop?

I too am a law-abiding citizen with nothing to hide. So, then, why should I abandon my rights?

I would comply but people aren't usually faced with requests to strip naked when they are stopped for brandishing a gun. The cell phone would be no big deal. I don't have anything to hide on mine so anyone can take a look. I would even let you if you were here. My family laughs at me because I always step up for extra wanding when my artificial joint sets off the metal detectors even when they would let me go by.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Of course not. But neither is the officer required to give you an answer to those questions. Depending on what the officer is working, they might be dangerously foolish to tell you why they stopped you, and they have absolutely no obligation to tell you. which begs the question -- is it possible to physically resist arrest NOT on purpose?

Um...no. You might want to Google before posting. Miranda has nothing to do with arrest. There are many non-arrest situations where Miranda is required, and many arrest situations where it is not required. You need to know what Miranda is about before you start talking about it.

And they'll say yes or no, but you are well within your rights to ask. That's fine. They don't need your consent if they have sufficient probable cause. And if they don't, they won't search.You'll sit by the side of the road for 4-6 hours until they get a warrant if they have any sense. No rush, they get paid the same -- probably even make overtime. No it absolutely should not be made easy for them. It would be a violation of your rights to search without sufficient probable cause. So will their body cams and dash cams. Who cares?Now, that will have them shaking in their boots!!!

Are you a cop or a prosecutor?

Yes, it is possible to physically resist someone involuntarily. If you are triggered by touch and someone touches you in a very aggressive manner, this will of course cause a physical reaction that one is not entirely in control of.

And I know exactly what Miranda rights are. I don't need google. Miranda has everything to do with arrest and what happens after. If there are conversations going on. I suppose if the entire arrest is a violent scene where someone gets shot, stuff like that no longer matters.

I also know that all of these things vary by jurisdiction and that where I live they are required to tell you why they are placing you under arrest (there are some exceptions to this ....but in general, it is under our state code).

As for search, you restated what I already stated. Probable cause: (pipe on the dashboard, driving a lab....thought I mentioned that).

Dash cams? Not present A LOT of places and seem to be broken in the most inconvenient times. I prefer to have a backup.

And I know cops don't care about lawyers. I wasn't mentioning that regarding police officers. I was stating what I do to protect ME. Because I feel that having a good attorney keeps me much safer than some of the police officers out there.

 

[JimMIA]

The fact is, it will be weeks before we have a halfway clear picture of what happened in either one of these situations. Weeks of painstaking investigations and lab work, working with real evidence -- not politicians blathering, media personalities trying to improve their ratings, activist groups fund-raising, or Internet gurus speculating about things we know nothing about. Eventually we'll see what the evidence says happened -- and it probably won't be nearly as dramatic as some of the above hyperventilating.

 

[CPanther95]

I would comply but people aren't usually faced with requests to strip naked when they are stopped for brandishing a gun. The cell phone would be no big deal. I don't have anything to hide on mine so anyone can take a look. I would even let you if you were here. My family laughs at me because I always step up for extra wanding when my artificial joint sets off the metal detectors even when they would let me go by.

I've got no problem with you willingly stripping naked or handing your cell phone over for someone to search for any potential illegal activity. My only problem is if you then expect others to do the same and if they don't, you believe it's fair to judge them as likely guilty just because they weren't willing to sacrifice as many of their rights as you were.

That would be no different than saying because you don't follow any particular religion, it's OK to deny anybody the right to worship.

 

[JimMIA]

Are you a cop or a prosecutor?

Retired cop, which is why I know some of this stuff.

Yes, it is possible to physically resist someone involuntarily. If you are triggered by touch and someone touches you in a very aggressive manner, this will of course cause a physical reaction that one is not entirely in control of.

That argument is a loser in court.

And I know exactly what Miranda rights are. I don't need google. Miranda has everything to do with arrest and what happens after. If there are conversations going on. I suppose if the entire arrest is a violent scene where someone gets shot, stuff like that no longer matters.

OK, I'll bite...when is Miranda required? That's a rhetorical question. I already know you don't know.

I also know that all of these things vary by jurisdiction and that where I live they are required to tell you why they are placing you under arrest (there are some exceptions to this ....but in general, it is under our state code).

Things don't vary that much. Miranda, for example, is named after a very famous US Supreme Court decision and is the law nationwide. As far as saying the magic words, yes, generally the officer has to say the magic words to affect an arrest or to support a charge of resisting arrest. But saying the words has nothing to do with use of force, if any is necessary.

And I know cops don't care about lawyers. I wasn't mentioning that regarding police officers. I was stating what I do to protect ME. Because I feel that having a good attorney keeps me much safer than some of the police officers out there.

The best way to protect yourself is to use common sense, and if you're in an interaction with a police officer, just do what they say.

 

[CPanther95]

The best way to protect yourself is to use common sense, and if you're in an interaction with a police officer, just do what they say.

Unless you have the right not to, of course.

I'm sure you wouldn't suggest otherwise.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Unless you have the right not to, of course.

 

[MickeySP]

What about the 86 officers shot & killed this year - you outraged by that

 

[JimMIA]

Unless you have the right not to, of course.

I'm sure you wouldn't suggest otherwise.

We're talking about going home in one piece at the end of the day. The best way to protect yourself is to comply.

If your rights are violated, then by all means make a fuss.

But do it in court, or through some complaint procedure, not on the street. Police departments and local governments don't want their officers trampling on citizens rights. Neither do the other officers. You will get more accomplished by using legal avenues than by strutting your machismo. Use your head.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Retired cop, which is why I know some of this stuff.That argument is a loser in court.

OK, I'll bite...when is Miranda required?

Sorry ill have to call my lawyer. I can't answer any questions.

 

[asta]

At least one of these men had a broken tail light that was all the officer knew at the time. A broken light and was a permit holder and carrier who warned the officer of his weapon. He was a civilized human being with a steady job. They haven't been able to find a single negative thing about him.

People do speak highly about him at his job but I don't think it is fair to say nothing negative has been found. He had 31 traffic violations. Definitely does not justify being shot but that seems very excessive.

 

[JimMIA]

Sorry ill have to call my lawyer. I can't answer any questions.

Cute.

Okay, I'll make it easy for you. Here are three situations.

• A patrol unit is dispatched to a possible shooting. When he arrives, a male runs up to him, showing his empty hands and says, "Officer, lock me up! I shot the @#$@@&&&@!"
• There is, in fact, a person shot at the scene.
  • Should the officer pat him down, handcuff him, and place him in the back seat of the police car?
  • Should the officer give him his Miranda Rights?
    • If so, why?
    • If not, why not?
  • Bonus question -- Is the man's statement that he shot someone likely to be admissible in court?
• I'm investigating a crime and you are implicated. I invite you to the police station to give your side of the story.
  • Should I give you Miranda Rights? If not, why not? If so, why?
• A uniform officer sees a person loitering in a place where drugs are sold and used. The officer believes the person is a drug dealer and approaches the person. The person says they don't want to be hassled, and starts to leave. The officer stops the person and asks for identification.
  • Should the officer give them Miranda Rights?
  • Is the stop legal?
  • Does the officer have the legal authority to pat the person down?
    • If so, under what circumstances?
    • If not, why not?

 

[CPanther95]

We're talking about going home in one piece at the end of the day. The best way to protect yourself is to comply.

If your rights are violated, then by all means make a fuss.

But do it in court, or through some complaint procedure, not on the street. Police departments and local governments don't want their officers trampling on citizens rights. Neither do the other officers. You will get more accomplished by using legal avenues than by strutting your machismo. Use your head.

There's no need to "make a fuss". But if an officer asks you to do something, produce something or say something that violates your rights - it would be stupid to blindly comply without carefully weighing the wisdom or sacrificing your rights. The officer knows if he's asking for something that he has no right to demand - he's just hoping you willingly offer. If the officer doesn't know our basic constitutional rights, and he has the attitude that "all citizens must comply with anything I ask" - the priority should be to get that guy off the street and don't let him anywhere near the public or his badge until he at least knows the basics.

If you can't do the job while playing by the rules, find another job.

 

[mnrose]

People do speak highly about him at his job but I don't think it is fair to say nothing negative has been found. He had 31 traffic violations. Definitely does not justify being shot but that seems very excessive.

All of them TRAFFIC violations. That doesn't make him a criminal. Good grief. I get so tired of people plowing through the lives of the people who are shot in an effort to paint them in a bad light. I don't care if had 3000 traffic tickets. It makes him a bad driver (at best) not a bad person.

 

[ols386]

That's not the way it's being reported in the accounts I've read this morning. Everything I've read says he disclosed he had a weapon and concealed carry permit and was complying with the officer's instructions as to how he was to retrieve his license. So there are conflicting stories about what happened (shock - not)

Hoping the officer had a camera that shows what happened from his perspective.

Yes, that's the report I heard. That the officer asked him to get his license, and that's when the police shot him. If this is the case, that cop is in a world of trouble.