How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[JillianMarie]

People do speak highly about him at his job but I don't think it is fair to say nothing negative has been found. He had 31 traffic violations. Definitely does not justify being shot but that seems very excessive.

I guess I fail to see the connection between traffic violations and getting shot. At some point a black man who has literally never done anything wrong is going to get shot and killed. I can't wait to see the contortions people are going to go through then to justify it. "Well, he volunteered at his local food pantry but he was late on a number of occasions. Not that it justifies it, but it does certainly raise some red flags."

 

[JimMIA]

There's no need to "make a fuss". But if an officer asks you to do something, produce something or say something that violates your rights - it would be stupid to blindly comply without carefully weighing the wisdom or sacrificing your rights.

Only if you have something to hide. If you're clean, let him look and then take the appropriate legal/administrative avenues later.

The officer knows if he's asking for something that he has no right to demand - he's just hoping you willingly offer. If the officer doesn't know our basic constitutional rights, and he has the attitude that "all citizens must comply with anything I ask" - the priority should be to get that guy off the street and don't let him anywhere near the public or his badge until he at least knows the basics.

If you can't do the job while playing by the rules, find another job.

Right...so how do you do that? By going toe to toe with the moron? Or by taking legitimate responsible action?

You will lose toe to toe. Period. You will lose.

You may be successful, and do your community a service, by following the correct avenues. So use your head.

 

[ols386]

I only watched the video. The girlfriend says he was reaching for his pocket but the officers says in the video, "I told him to put his hands up."...

It's really early to say what exactly happened(if we ever find out).

I don't think the cop told him to put his hands up.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

How does Roof leave a church, not a scratch on him. These men killed? explain, discuss? A male who has shot an killed 9 people leaves an area, walking. These men, dead. One for a broken tail light? Possessing a license to carry? Where is the NRA? That means anyone with a license to carry can now be shot if they have a tail light out.

 

[CPanther95]

Only if you have something to hide. If you're clean, let him look and then take the appropriate legal/administrative avenues later.Right...so how do you do that? By going toe to toe with the moron? Or by taking legitimate responsible action?

You will lose toe to toe. Period. You will lose.

You may be successful, and do your community a service, by following the correct avenues. So use your head.

So if a police officer stops you at a roadblock and after you inform him you are legally carrying he requests that you pull the gun out of the holster on your hip and put it on the dash - you would recommend compliance?

(That's straying from the violation of rights, just want to see to what extent you recommend people blindly comply)

 

[asta]

I guess I fail to see the connection between traffic violations and getting shot. At some point a black man who has literally never done anything wrong is going to get shot and killed. I can't wait to see the contortions people are going to go through then to justify it. "Well, he volunteered at his local food pantry but he was late on a number of occasions. Not that it justifies it, but it does certainly raise some red flags."

I agree. I was just responding to the poster who said that no single negative thing had been said. In fact with that many violations you would think the police would know who he was before pulling him over and would have known any risk factor.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Cute.

Okay, I'll make it easy for you. Here are three situations.

• A patrol unit is dispatched to a possible shooting. When he arrives, a male runs up to him, showing his empty hands and says, "Officer, lock me up! I shot the @#$@@&&&@!"
• There is, in fact, a person shot at the scene.
  • Should the officer pat him down, handcuff him, and place him in the back seat of the police car?
  • Should the officer give him his Miranda Rights?
    • If so, why?
    • If not, why not?
  • Bonus question -- Is the man's statement that he shot someone likely to be admissible in court?
• I'm investigating a crime and you are implicated. I invite you to the police station to give your side of the story.
  • Should I give you Miranda Rights? If not, why not? If so, why?
• A uniform officer sees a person loitering in a place where drugs are sold and used. The officer believes the person is a drug dealer and approaches the person. The person says they don't want to be hassled, and starts to leave. The officer stops the person and asks for identification.
  • Should the officer give them Miranda Rights?
  • Is the stop legal?
  • Does the officer have the legal authority to pat the person down?
    • If so, under what circumstances?
    • If not, why not?

Well, since I'm being interviewed here and questioned, I'm going to need to call my lawyer first.

 

[CPanther95]

How does Roof leave a church, not a scratch on him. These men killed? explain, discuss? A male who has shot an killed 9 people leaves an area, walking. These men, dead. One for a broken tail light? Possessing a license to carry? Where is the NRA? That means anyone with a license to carry can now be shot if they have a tail light out.

The NRA won't be silent on the matter. That I can guarantee.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, since I'm being interviewed here and questioned, I'm going to need to call my lawyer first.

You can call anyone you want, but Miranda does not apply.

 

[JimMIA]

So if a police officer stops you at a roadblock and after you inform him you are legally carrying he requests that you pull the gun out of the holster on your hip and put it on the dash - you would recommend compliance?

You don't really think any police officer would ask you to do that...do you??? If they would, they would be way beyond stupid.

 

[CPanther95]

You don't really think any police officer would ask you to do that...do you??? If they would, they would be way beyond stupid.

Agreed. And yes I do. And yes he did. And no I didn't.

 

[JimMIA]

Answer Key to post #177 above:

• Question 1:
  • Yes
  • No, because it is not a custodial interrogation and Mirandizing the subject could compromise the investigation.
  • Bonus: Yes, res ipsa loquitur
• Question 2:
  • No. At least not at first. It's not a custodial interrogation.
  • If you incriminate yourself during our little chat, then I would Mirandize you.
• Question 3:
  • Yes
  • Yes
  • Yes, limited to ensuring officer safety only. Not to search.

 

[Jdbsfw]

Im disgusted by the shooting of Tamir Rice and that obvious injustice got relatively little attention for some reason.

 

[JillianMarie]

I agree. I was just responding to the poster who said that no single negative thing had been said. In fact with that many violations you would think the police would know who he was before pulling him over and would have known any risk factor.

So, taking into account his awful, awful history of speeding tickets he was known to the police department. The best case scenario is that they knew who he was when they pulled him over, knew he wasn't a threat and killed him anyway. So, that's reassuring.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Answer Key to post #177 above:

• Question 1:
  • Yes
  • No, because it is not a custodial interrogation and Mirandizing the subject could compromise the investigation.
  • Bonus: Yes, res ipsa loquitur
• Question 2:
  • No. At least not at first. It's not a custodial interrogation.
  • If you incriminate yourself during our little chat, then I would Mirandize you.
• Question 3:
  • Yes
  • Yes
  • Yes, limited to ensuring officer safety only. Not to search.

Impossible. I don't believe in little chats without a lawyer. I know in the state in which I reside I'm not even required to provide my name unless arrested.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I couldn't read all the responses... I'm sure someone said it, but this was obviously tragic.
That said, would it have happened if it were a white guy?? We may never know, and we shouldn't assume either way.
So, while obviously being a tragedy, it may have zero to do with race.

MG

 

[JillianMarie]

I couldn't read all the responses... I'm sure someone said it, but this was obviously tragic.
That said, would it have happened if it were a white guy?? We may never know, and we shouldn't assume either way.
So, while obviously being a tragedy, it may have zero to do with race.

MG

No, this would not have happened had it been a white guy. I know there could be a lot of factors at play and we all want really badly to believe that race wasn't the major factor here. But, it was. And, sure, the natural tendency is to step back and deny it because it's uncomfortable and scary but at a certain point we as a society should stop doing that.

 

[mnrose]

I don't think the cop told him to put his hands up.

The girlfriend says that when the office approached the vehicle he asked them BOTH to put their hands up. They did. He then asked for license and registration. Of course the driver had to move his hands to get them, right? So the officer's statement COULD be true, but it is also nonsensical if he asked for license and registration (which seems completely probable as this has been asked of me the two times I have been stopped by the police, and it was ALSO the first thing the officer asked for when I called them for a minor traffic accident).

 

[cornflkgrl]

I guess at that point we should just scrap the court system altogether. If we're to a point where we're saying that a potential crime is worth the death penalty without being convicted of anything then it's time to admit that due process just isn't necessary anymore. I mean, it'll probably saved lot of time and resources in the end if we just stop having trials so I suppose that's something.

It certainly seems as though that is what some people believe. And also that "not complying completely" no matter what gets you the death penalty to be carried out immediately on the spot. And even complying incorrectly(?) -- was he asked to reach for his license? -- can get you the same?!

 

[JimMIA]

Impossible. I don't believe in little chats without a lawyer. I know in the state in which I reside I'm not even required to provide my name unless arrested.

What you believe in is not the question. The questions were whether Miranda warnings were required or advisable, and the answers given are correct.