hopper pass-fingerscan or handscan?

Chuck,

Guess my comment about the AP was my referring to the upcoming DVC AP APP discount discussions.

But ...you do have a point:
1 day...1 person...1 ticket....who really does care???
 
Here's a chuckle for all:

Last week on one of the tv news stations that this is spreading in Europe, Asia..
A club in Europe has gone very high tech and people frequenting the club have small chips implanted in their bodies (dont remember where) which identify them, address, credit card #..etc..
 
Edit: Information contained in my original post may have been inaccurate. As a CM, I don't want to spread misinformation, so the text has been removed.
 
Disney never expects or intends for AP passes to be used for the bulk, or even a majority, of the days of the year. Hence its discount pricing (an AP becomes the better option over hoppers, or regular daily admission, once you go past a certain number of days).

A transferable AP pass could be passed around to enough people so as to allow admission for a large number of the 366 days. You can only use a hopper for the days on the hopper, and Disney assumes that the purchaser will actually use all the days on the pass (thus, unused days are good forever). Thus, if Disney were to allow transferability of tickets, transferability of an AP would have a materially greater effect on crowds and ticket profits than allowing people to use all the days in a hopper (since WDW assumed that all the hopper days would be used anyway). That's probably one of the reasons why Disney didn't impose scanning on hoppers, while doing so on APs.

Non-transferability is usually meant to inhibit the black market (scalping, third party sales, etc.), which is probably the reason why Disney's doing it now.

Of course, Disney has a right to scan the hopper users, they own the park. But the fact that a hopper can be used forever loses some of its appeal if you think that you won't be able to give (not sell) your unused hoppers to someone who can really use the days left over when you won't.

I know that when I bought my mom's and sister's, I assumed that I could use any unused days (for bad weather or if we were tired) on another trip with just my sister. It motivated my purchase, I paid the asking price, and the we would definitely pay for extra days, rooms, food, and services.

In a way, Disney enforcement of the policy is raising the prices, and stakes, on your hoppers: you are taking a higher risk of having unplanned and unused days on your hopper that neither you, nor other people, may be able to use. And you paid close to full price for the per day privilege.

On a slightly unrelated note-- of course, if you don't like a policy you don't have to go. Notably, although Disney prints non-transferable language on the back of their ticket, their new scan system allows for people to interchange tickets, even give all unused ones to one person if they were bought/activated at the same time. So, really, it doesn't seem like they really are wed to the one ticket/one person thing. It seems to acknowledge that people plan trips as families and with a budget in mind, not as individual ticket purchasers. The new system closes an avenue for keeping your Disney vacation affordable if they aren't activated at the same time--i.e., families arriving on different dates-- you're out of luck in exchanging, even with the new tracking system.

A WDW hopper is a contract between you and Disney, but our only negotiation tool is..not going. And for some of us, simply not going is not an option. We should be able to at least complain about it and wonder the whys and wherefores...it's pretty much the only thing we can do, really :D
:wave:
 

Wahoo1, is it not possible to just swap your convention passes for the regular passes before they are used for the first time?In that case the regular one would be yours and there would be no problem with the DQ being used by your children's aunt and uncle as it would be their ticket. I do not know whether convention passes are named, in which case this would be impossible of course, just a suggestion. :confused3
 
Plus, if you gave your hopper to your BIL to take the kids to DQ you would not be able to get into Epcot to see CP!
 
Don't know about Wahoo1's passes, but my convention passes are hopper passes...no problem changing parks. Just to weigh in, I agree with Goofiernmost, etc. Why does Disney care who uses the rest of the days on a PH? I agree that an AP is not intended for 365 days of continuous use, so can see the fingerscan here and with the 10/30 day tickets, FL resident, etc. But who cares when X number of days have already been purchased. If people want to cheat and send some party members in, then send someone out with passes for the rest of the party to come in, perhaps a better identification method than fingerscan would be for Disney to enforce their already existing rule...CHECK THE HAND STAMP!! I've NEVER had my handstamp checked when entering a 2nd or 3rd park on the same day with a PH. Besides, don't you think the computer would pick it up if tickets X,Y, and Z were used to enter a park and then used again 20 mins. later to enter the SAME park? Don't you think the computer would flag daily use for an extended period of an AP from someone from 1000 miles away (as in, why didn't they have a FL resident pass instead of an AP)? I think Disney currently has the capability to check multiple PH use, they just don't bother. And as we all know, Disney has a way of squeezing the bucks out of us until we scream!


SIX DAYS TO DISNEY!!
 
leebee,Some things to think about. I had an AP last year and I was a FL resident. I bought the pass before I moved here from PA and went 86 times last year. According to your theory that would be a red flag to Disney.

They have the black light positioned to see the hand stamp on most people. I have seen people stopped that didn't have the hand stamp just like I have seen people at the turnstile with a handstamp and no ticket.
 
ok, ok.. you all have me nervous/anxious here about our upcoming trip.

We are getting ready to leave (2 days) and are bringing ds friend with us. His family has AP's so he is going to be bringing his AP with him. Will I have to do anything special with him? Make sure he scans his hand/finger or something??

I am an overplanner so now that there's something I don't know about I... AGH!!!!

Thanks all for the info
 
Good Ol Gal said:
We are getting ready to leave (2 days) and are bringing ds friend with us. His family has AP's so he is going to be bringing his AP with him. Will I have to do anything special with him? Make sure he scans his hand/finger or something??

Annual Passholders ages 10+ must use the biometric finger scanner at the turnstyle as they enter the park. If your son's friend has used his AP before, he'll be used to this, and will already know to do this. If not, the CM at the turnstyle will remind him.
 
I remember the days of photo passes. For a brief time, all park hopper passes had photo ID on them, but the delays and lines were so incredibly bad that the practice was abandoned pretty quickly.

I also understand Disney's long-term search for a way to make absolutely sure that nobody can ever trade, sell, or give partially-used tickets to someone else. It is, as several people pointed out, simple greed, though it's a short-sighted and self-defeating type of greed. The reasoning behind it is that if I buy a 7-day hopper and only use 5 days of it, that's 2 days of park admission that I paid for and didn't use. It's money in the bank to Disney. Of course, I could come back later and use those 2 days, but since 2 days is not enough for most people's vacations, I would also have to purchase yet another ticket for the later trip... and again, multi-day hoppers start at 4 days, except for specialty tickets that most people don't know about (except on boards like this), so there's a chance that I'd still wind up not using all the days I bought.

Cha-ching.

The short-sighted portion of this is that Disney does not make the bulk of thier profits from ticket sales. They make the vast majority of thier money from concession sales within the parks and resorts - and I can't buy an overpriced Coke or a $12 roll of film if I'm NOT THERE.

Transferrable tickets are a good thing for Disney. By making it easier for those unused days to get used, whether by the original purchaser or one of thier cousins, Disney is encouraging higher attendance in the parks. And higher attendance translates to higher concession sales, which translates to far higher profits than those from ticket days that are bought but never used. By making it harder for those days to get used, Disney ultimately reduces thier profits; sure, they made $50 or so from an unused hopper day, but they missed out on the $200 worth of food and souveniers they might have made if that day was used by somebody.

Annual passes have always been something special, however. APs don't just give you admission into the parks, they also give you substantial discounts on resort stays and discounts on dining, merchandise, and tours. Passing an AP around would not be in Disney's best interest, because discounts are supposed to be incentives that encourage people to come back again and again. Sure you may save $400 on your resort on this stay, but if that encourages you to come back later and spend $1500 that you would not have spent without the AP, then Disney is still ahead of the curve. That's why I don't mind the fingerscans for APs, but I think the fingerscans for regular passes are a mistake.

Your milage may vary.
 
Edit: Information contained in my original post may have been inaccurate. As a CM, I don't want to spread misinformation, so the text has been removed.
 
SyracuseWolvrine said:
With the introduction of the new Magic Your Way tickets (which will now expire, unless you pay more to have them never expire), the reasoning behind Disney exploring biometrics on all tickets is starting to become clear. My thinking is that Disney isn't really all that worried about people passing off their old park hoppers that don't expire, but is more concerned with a situation like the hypothetical described in the next paragraph.

Hypothetical: Five members of Family Z are on vacation, and have purchased 7 day MYW tickets that will expire 14 days after first use. 3 days into the trip, a family emergency comes up, and Family Z has to abort their trip. With the old park hoppers, Family Z could have held onto their tickets and used them for a future vacation. With the new MYW tickets having an expiration date, Family Z will have no use for the leftover days on their tickets, and will be faced with 3 options ... either 1) tossing the tickets, 2) trying to "scalp" the tickets to attempt to recover some of their money, or 3) trying to give away the tickets to another family that needs tickets. Disney has no problem with the first option, but they want to make sure the 2nd and 3rd options don't happen, and the biometric scans are a pretty good way to prevent this.

Now, is going all biometrics a perfect solution? Of course not. BUT, from Disney's standpoint, it's a pretty good option. They will have to add new turnstyles, but they're not going to have to add new equipment on the turnstyles, they're not going to have to develop a new way of identifying people to the ticket, and they're not going to have to train CMs on any new methods.

Won't Disney have to have a secondary way to tie a ticket to an individual? If my biometric-scan doesn't work with my AP - I pull out my ID and the CM verifies the name on the tickets matches the ID, right? Does this mean that all new ticket media will be imprinted with the guests name for verification purposes?

- Sharon
 
Edit: Information contained in my original post may have been inaccurate. As a CM, I don't want to spread misinformation, so the text has been removed.
 
Hmmm...interesting. :scratchin I'm not sure what I think yet.
 
I can't believe all the nonsense about "who cares how a ticket is used once it's paid for".

-- Obviously WDW cares. What else do you need to know?
-- IF there were nothing but one-day tickets, probably nobody would care. Then some of the arguments would make sense. But if you're using the last day of a 7-day hopper, how much did that day cost? Up to now, it only cost about $30. With the new ticket scheme, it may cost a lot less, apparently as little as $3! What have you done to deserve the reduced price associated with the last day on a ticket? Disney has every right to insist that you paid for and used the first six days! If you call it "greed" that they don't care to give you a $3 or $30 admission unless you've followed the rules, I can only laugh.
 
erikthewise said:
I can't believe all the nonsense about "who cares how a ticket is used once it's paid for".

-- Obviously WDW cares. What else do you need to know?
-- IF there were nothing but one-day tickets, probably nobody would care. Then some of the arguments would make sense. But if you're using the last day of a 7-day hopper, how much did that day cost? Up to now, it only cost about $30. With the new ticket scheme, it may cost a lot less, apparently as little as $3! What have you done to deserve the reduced price associated with the last day on a ticket? Disney has every right to insist that you paid for and used the first six days! If you call it "greed" that they don't care to give you a $3 or $30 admission unless you've followed the rules, I can only laugh.


This makes a lot of sense with the new tickets. I have been trying to figure out this new ticket system all afternoon. I will only need 5 days, but 7 days is only about $3 more. If they didn't have the scan, a person in my situation could buy the 7 day even though they didn't need the days (its only a few dollars more), then scalp them to someone coming into to park thus getting some of their money back. This could be a HUGE loss for WDW! It makes a lot of sense to have the scan in this senario!
 
Golly, Beav, looks like I opened up a whole can of worms!!

I think I may take Tarzan's idea of swapping the tickets before first use. Oh, and Muffy--they are Hopper tickets, so we would still be able to get into Epcot and see the CP.

I guess I can justify this in that had my BIL and SIL not "rushed the gun" and bought their tickets so fast, we all would have bought the convention tickets and ALL of us would have been able to use DQ and PI.

I hope my pastor doesn't read this, but I know the tickets are not transferrable, but we're only talking for 2-3 hours so we can go out and celebrate our anniversary. No harm in that is there . . . ?

Thanks for your help and sorry for all the mess I've caused.
Beth
 
I guess the stock prices will reflect if this was A brainchild or bonehead idea. Eisner should worry about the MILLIONS he wasted hiring people who he doesn't get along with. Messing up the Pixar deal also. I guess this is one way to make the bottom line look better. Their only concern!!!
 

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