Homeschool Thread---you can debate, but BE NICE!!

[pamlet]

But I just think the possibility for abject failure with homeschooling is dangerously, dangerously high, and when you combine that with the "I am the devoted mother I know, I am backed by the love of the Lord, and I homeschool because I am superior to moms who do not" ego trip --- it's nearly impossible for that woman to see when things are going off the cliff.

I always find these kind of comments interesting. There are more and more people homeschooling who are not Christian - heck - I've seen Wiccan homeschoolers on some of the boards that I frequent, as well as agnostic, atheist folks as well. While probably the greatest number of homeschoolers are from Christian backgrounds, more and more are not.

That said - I am a Christian homeschooling mom - no I don't think I'm superior to anyone... either as a wife, mom or person. In fact I don't know any homeschooling families that think or feel this way. Since I'm fairly recent to homeschooling I was on the "other side of the fence" longer than being on this side. I never felt an air of superiority from a homeschooling mom.

I'm just someone who feels that I'm doing the right thing for my son - and yes I do feel that it's the Lord's will that I do this. However - what is the Lord's will for ME is not going to be His will for someone else. Just as my next door neighbor is doing what she feels is His will by going to school full time to be a nurse, as well as working full time to better herself to provide for her family. Her kids are in public school and are doing great. I would never question what she's doing, nor look down on her. We support each other in every way we can.

 

[auntpolly]

It's hard to talk about a topic like this and seem "nice" if you feel very strongly that people are making a big mistake -- but I'm going to give it my best shot!

What path and why did you choose your desired path of education for your child?

DD went to public school K-8 and private school in HS. We have a really wonderful private school in our area and I know it's a luxury but we have only one child and we can afford it.

Do you consider yourself against the other options? If yes, then why?

Someone just talked about homeschooling appealing to them, and I can identify with that. When DD was little I would look at the kids at recess at the school she'd be going to and just shudder. You hear stories, you know how it is, about the school. About certain teachers. About troubled kids. There was that urge to keep her at home and do it myself. But I'm so glad I didn't. I got to know a group of homeschoolers through one of my neighbors and at first, I envied them. But as I continued to watch them, I began to think differently. I would say half of them were doing a pretty good job and the other half were doing some major things wrong - but they all thought they were doing great.

I started to really question their motives for wanting to homeschool - after all we didn't live in a dangerous school district and none of these kids had any special circumstances. They all got together and did plenty of field trips and other stuff together, but on the whole I started having a problem with the way they sheltered their kids. They said they didn't see a problem with keeping kids from the bad stuff as long as they could -- and maybe that's not so terrible, but I started seeing that as "not the point". In keeping the kids from the bad they were also keeping their kids from good stuff that they couldn't even see.

Even people we see as questionable can have a good influence on our kids - maybe there is something about them that we don't approve of, but that doesn't mean they are all bad. I think of myself as a child and some of my best qualities come from people my mom wasn't crazy about.

I understand totally homeschooling if you are in a terrible school district or if your kid has learning problems, but other than that, I think you should "trust the universe" a little more and realize your kids are not as fragile as you think and that other people have things to offer your kids.

Oh, I also don't buy the argument that a kid is too bright or too bored for school. I heard someone once say that bored people are boring people and I believe that. There are always ways to make things exciting and fun unless you just don't want to.

I know this probably sounds mean and I'm ready for the firing squad - but this is how I honestly feel.



Do you support the choice to pick an option? To a certain extent - but I think the requirements should be the same in all states and homeschoolers should be more regulated. The ones I saw didn't have to answer to much, at least when the kids were little.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Aunt Polly I think you were very diplomatic!

Some of us trust the universe, just not our local school system. I was in the school system, first as a teacher, then as a consultant. I am very fond of many of the people there. But if you ask the teachers, inc. my neighbor who is the principal of the high school, there are things that are really messed up. I am a believer in the fundamentals like phonics, spelling, handwriting, history, geography and a very strong math and science program.

What our district is teaching is a very watered down "langage arts" using whole word, "social studies" which focus on the "feelings of the people in different countries", and a science program focussing on tripe, IMO. Oh, and math where they use calculators. But they think they are doing a great job because they send at least an hours homework every night! This is in the elementery grades of course.

This all made me crazy! There is a good Christian School across the river, but they were Waaay to anal for me and waaay too full of self praise.

Personally, I like traveling with my husband. We all took care of my father as he died. the hardest thing we as a family ever had to do. I don't focus on busy work, or count making cookies as Daily Living Skills. My boys are math whizzes (Jack's genes not mine) and they have been able to flourish. My son's speech delay would have landed him in LD, but he can read and does math two grade levels above. For us, all of this works.

Per the state regs., in OH I am required to have them tested or a portfolio review by a licensed teacher every year.

 

[pamlet]

They all got together and did plenty of field trips and other stuff together, but on the whole I started having a problem with the way they sheltered their kids. They said they didn't see a problem with keeping kids from the bad stuff as long as they could -- and maybe that's not so terrible, but I started seeing that as "not the point". In keeping the kids from the bad they were also keeping their kids from good stuff that they couldn't even see.

... snip...

I understand totally homeschooling if you are in a terrible school district or if your kid has learning problems, but other than that, I think you should "trust the universe" a little more and realize your kids are not as fragile as you think and that other people have things to offer your kids.

Oh, I also don't buy the argument that a kid is too bright or too bored for school. I heard someone once say that bored people are boring people and I believe that. There are always ways to make things exciting and fun unless you just don't want to.

Do you support the choice to pick an option? To a certain extent - but I think the requirements should be the same in all states and homeschoolers should be more regulated. The ones I saw didn't have to answer to much, at least when the kids were little.

Actually the "sheltered" argument is a very old one. My mother worked in the Chicago public schools when I was growing up.. EONS ago.. laugh.. I'm 46. I attended public school through 8th grade, then my parents chose to send me to a Christian school. (This was NOT due to them being some sort of "religious nuts".. they exposed us to many religions.. tho' both were from Christian backgrounds, Mom various protestant denominations, Dad was raised Catholic.) I was sent there as it was the least expensive private school they could find and I wanted to go. They also were accused by neighbors and relatives as "sheltering" me.

What "good things" do you think your friends kids missed out on? And why would it be so bad to shelter from "bad things"? I really think that kids today feel such pressure to act "grown up" and lose the joy of youth. My son is 15 years old ... is not as innocent as I'd like to think But I'll tell you, since I started staying home he and his neighborhood buddies spend MUCH more time outside... they're currently "digging a stream" in our yard... They have grand plans for a stream and water feature. They crack me up with their plans - next is a tree house... on the "island" in our yard. My first reaction was ABSOLUTELY NOT... then I realized these "cool kids" get off the bus and head over here to plan, dig, argue, laugh .. and drink about a gallon of kool-aid. These other kids seem to enjoy the "freedom" of being sheltered - they can be kids without feeling the pressure of "being cool". I suppose it's hard put in words. It doesn't relate specifically to homeschooling, but it does to "sheltering".

As to standard requirements in all states for homeschooling - there are no standard requirements for public schools, private schools... why should there be for homeschoolers?

I think it's interesting - a lot of people are all for standardized testing for homeschoolers - but yet there is so much controversy surrounding standardized testing for public schools, and holding teachers accountable.

 

[auntpolly]

Thanks for understanding my "non-evil" motive Michelle - but let me just ask you one thing. Don't you think that you could have supplemented with out completely replacing the kids' education?

One of the reasons I was a SAHM was that I wanted to teach DD stuff too. I taught her to read before she went to Kindergarten. We read everything together. We had a little "science projects" going all the time. I felt is was the best of both worlds and I don't think you'd even need to be a SAHM to do this.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow--and here I thought my poor thread was neglected...it will take me a while to catch up--we were at Peking Acrobats this morning What a fun show!!! Think the show at EPCOT times 50!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This is just a question and not meant to inflame anyone ok.....

Now from what I have seen in this thread most of you have young kids. If you plan to HS all the way to say college (or if others are in the process). Do you think you have the expertise in all of these subjects to really give your child a good foundation in all of the subjects out there. I understand at the elementary school level it may be easier....but as you get higher up can a home school mom/dad provide the depth needed at the say high-school level. I myself am a PHD chemist and could most definately do a great job on science and maybe even math but I would seriously be lacking in my ability to teach literature really well or European History. Again I understand some of the reasons for home schooling especially at young ages but there is a reason most teachers (hopefully) teach a certain subject and are "experts" in said field as I am in Chemistry. How can you as a parent be an "expert" at everything? I am not trying to be snide just honestly asking. Again at the younger levels it isn't as important but in high-school and even middle school having more expertise I would think is definately important.

Honest question! Well written thank you--as the mom of a 4yo I cannot speak from personal experience what we have done--but in our homeschool group, they have a co-op that offers lab classes and other course work as an option for parents who dont' feel they can teach some subjects. There is also internet courses and LOTS of curriculum out there (I read Rainbow Resource Catalogue religiously!) available to parents to go it alone if they feel that is best.

In most any subject you can learn along side your child and tackle the material together.

ETA: After reading some posts--forgot that students can duel enroll at community college to receive high school level and college level credit simultaneously for course work.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Aaah, Lisa you sucked me into a new one!!

Haven't finished the thread yet--but if we can play nice---it will be enjoyable to has around the pros/cons and what not!


Regarding requiremets for a BS or a teacher's certification....why should these be required...there are many smart/successful people who don't have Bachelor's degrees. Parents do not need certification to be parents....homeschooling is just an extension of that parenting.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Although my oldest is only 3, I think we have decided to homeschool. At this point, our plan (which of course may change over time) is to homeschool through 5th grade and then probably send them to public middle school.

I see middle school as a good transition point. In middle school, they will be grouped with other students that are at a similar ability level they are. If we decide to continue homeschooling into middle school, there are 2 different "schools" like disneymom talks about above. They would attend "traditional school" for things like math and science.

I love the idea of being able to include topics my kids are interested in to their daily lessons. I think homeschooling will be a great learning experience for both me and my kids.

Lisa~Thanks for the overview of homeschooling in Florida.

Christy

Do not take me as the expert--I just have the bare minimums down--make sure to check. I still have lots to learn

On the middle school note--I met several parents at convention last year (you should go--www.fpea.com...it isn't too early to get information and they are have LOTS of it there)....who were STARTING to homeschool in middle school...that's the time with the raging hormones as our babies transition from tweens to teens--cycles, facial hair, chests and all. Lots have done what you have done...but just a caution that middle school isn't necessarily the best time to introduce them into mainstream school. I met one family that was homeschooling middle school exclusively. That's when my eyes went .

 

[jrmasm]

I guess I homeschooled my kids for awhile up until Kindergarten, given the number of Homeschooled Preschoolers I see on the DIS. I must admit I don't get it. Around here I don't know of anybody who would consider my 2 year old Homeschooled. We just call it "coloring with Mommy."

and because I'm still laughing...

 

[pearlieq]

Oh, I also don't buy the argument that a kid is too bright or too bored for school. I heard someone once say that bored people are boring people and I believe that. There are always ways to make things exciting and fun unless you just don't want to.

This cracked me up! What exactly do you suggest I should have done when in my 6th grade honors math class the teacher spent an entire hour explaining the concept of fractions?

Worksheet oragami? Desk yoga?

I guess I'm a boring person because I was bored to tears most of the time in my classes--and like I said, I went to top-tier public schools.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hi,
I'm reading these threads for future reference as I've always thought about homeschooling my kids in the future. One quick question, would one of you please explain what "tumbling" is when you refer to it as a socialisation activity? I've never heard of it before, maybe we call it something different in the UK? Thanks!

Tumbling is gymnastics for little kids....they don't learn any flips or maneuvers as their small bodies are just not ready for it and their cognitive skills aren't there to learn it just yet.

They learn somersaults, jumping, balance beam, and do back bends with apparatus that let them feel and get used to being inverted but the teacher rolls them over--kind of like rolling backward off of the sofa. They also learn "cartwheels"--but it looks nothing like a cart wheel LOL.

 

[Kermit]

We're going to homeschool when our children are old enough. I don't think that it's the best choice or even a good choice for everybody. I think that every type of education has advantages and disadvantages, so everyone has to pick the one that works best for their family.

I do think that a homeschooling parent needs to be able to fairly judge their own limitations and those of their children. Parents who think they know everything and their kids know everything can't make good teachers. You have to be able to identify weaknesses and correct them.

Once a parent does realize what he/she can't do, there are ways to work around those limitations without sending the kids to school. There are so many choices available when homeschooling. You can watch teachers teaching over satellite or with DVDs. You can take classes online. You can get together with other homeschoolers and have a degreed teacher or another homeschooling parent teach certain classes. You can send your kids to a private school (or even public school in some states) for certain subjects. And once children reach a certain age, they should really be able to teach themselves some things and be responsible for finding help when they need it. Not every child reaches that capability, but it's one of my main goals as a homeschooler to raise children who know how to learn and who want to do it.

Several people have mentioned regulations and testing. All states have regulations, and I think almost all of them require standardized testing. I know that South Carolina does.

There are reasons for some people to homeschool that go beyond poor schools or special circumstances for their families. We have the ability to move to go to better schools (I honestly don't know what the schools here are like, but I'm guessing they're about middle of the road) or to pay for private school, but that's just not what we want to do. We're planning on DH being able to travel for a few months out of the year when our kids are older, so it will be great to be able to travel and learn. I also want to give my children the opportunity to learn from living books rather than text books. When we learn about plants, I want to buy books about plants rather than text books with a few chapters about plants. Of course, they'll move to more traditional text books as they approach high school, but by then they'll have learned that learning is fun and exciting.

It's hard to really describe all the reasons we want to homeschool without comparing it to other school choices, but that always causes somebody to have hurt feelings or say that homeschoolers think they're better than everybody. I don't think that homeschooling is best for everybody, and I don't think that I'm being a better parent than anyone because I am a homeschooler. I think that as a person matures, it becomes more obvious that there's never a perfect solution to any problem in life (or else there wouldn't be any other choices beside the perfect one), so we just have to choose what works best for us. In our situation, the advantages of homeschooling are more significant than the advantages of other types of schools, so that's what we're going with.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I guess I'm just shocked this one hasn't turned into a fight yet


I guess I homeschooled my kids for awhile up until Kindergarten, given the number of Homeschooled Preschoolers I see on the DIS. I must admit I don't get it. Around here I don't know of anybody who would consider my 2 year old Homeschooled. We just call it "coloring with Mommy."

My other kids have been in mixtures of Private and Public schools. They are both in Private schools right now (5th and 9th grades). When my youngest reachest Preschool age I will most likely sign him up for a Montessori type Preschool and then enroll him in Private Elementary School.

Right now I wouldn't send either of my older kids to our local Public School. Especially my 5th grader who would have a 20% chance of ending up in the 5th Grade classroom that has been relegated to a windowless room that used to be a storage closet off of the cafeteria. The classrooms are overcrowded, discipline is non-existent, and the teachers in that building are mostly the ones who were unable to get jobs in other schools. Test scores are plummeting. In all honesty I would Homeschool him before I would send him there. Thankfully, I got him onto the waitlist at the local Private School early last year and a spot opened up for him.

Do you consider yourself against the other options? If yes, then why?

I'm not against other options, but I do know of some people that I don't feel are doing their kids any favors. In all fairness though I also know of a few Homeschoolers who are succeeding quite well.

Do you support the choice to pick an option?

Partially. I would like to see States do more to require testing to ensure that kids are progressing at acceptable rates. My son's Private school allows Homeschooled kids to come in and take the Terra Novas during the testing week. My personal opinion is that most reasonable Teaching parents should participate in some kind of benchmark check, just to insure that their children are on the right track.

As far as a degree. I think that most people with a High School education can probably teach their kids in younger elementary school fairly decently. Beyond that, I guess everybody has the right to do make the decision for their own children, but I would never allow anybody without a college degree the responsibility of teaching my kids.

Well first off--I appreciate that everyone has respected my request to play nice.

And in Florida my daughter is PK4...so this was our practice homeschool year. We have been in a homeschool group since she was 3...so while we've not done anything formal--it is my responsibility to provide for her in such a way so that she isn't missing out per se. So she is homeschooled.

Florida does have an annual benchmark for homeschool families. Requirements vary from state to state. And if you are in violation of law, you can have your homeschooling privileges taken away. On the flip side, you cannot have your rights stripped and if anyone is facing this situation--they should contact HSLDA for further assistance. If you are doing everything you are legally required to do--then the state can do nothing to take away your rights...unless the law changes out of your favor (but that wouldn't happen suddenly).

 

[auntpolly]

This cracked me up! What exactly do you suggest I should have done when in my 6th grade honors math class the teacher spent an entire hour explaining the concept of fractions?

.

Well I'm glad I cracked you up! In the spirit of trying to keep this upbeat I'm going to just say that not all students are entertained (or should need to be) at all times of the day and some kids are better than others at things and some kids will be bored when they are teaching the things you aren't so good at and that's just part of life's lessons. If you can learn this, it's just as good as anything you learn in school.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Children can pick up curse words and naughty phrases from lots of other places other than school. I picked up choice ones from the kids at the Y.
I have never heard a teacher use inappropriate language in front of a child. Not in my experience, nor has it happened to any of my friends or family members, so please do not state that it is a common occurrence as your statement implies.

I've never heard of teachers using inappropriate langauge in the form of curse words--but I do know what things I learned in public school and I went to 10 of them. My child wouldn't be going to places if I feel that children who behave inappropriately will be there.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Thanks for understanding my "non-evil" motive Michelle - but let me just ask you one thing. Don't you think that you could have supplemented with out completely replacing the kids' education?

One of the reasons I was a SAHM was that I wanted to teach DD stuff too. I taught her to read before she went to Kindergarten. We read everything together. We had a little "science projects" going all the time. I felt is was the best of both worlds and I don't think you'd even need to be a SAHM to do this.

Most definitely! There are ample opportunities to encourage children to use their brains!

My mental block, though is all of the busy work the kids in school do. Worksheet after worksheet whether you know the info or not. a waste of good time in my book. I never meant to have my kids above grade level in anything because it really messes things up if you want re-enter the school system, but when I got rid of the busy stuff, this is what happened. I know that repetition is needed in some cases and for some kids.

I know that teachers have a very difficult job trying to teach all levels of a subject to a large class. I just think my way is more efficient! I like teaching, and I think I am pretty good at it. <<flame suit on!!!>> My kids are involved with neighbor kids, scouts, sunday school, swim lessons, and our local homeschool group (even though they kicked me out!). They are blessed by these interactions. And we have a ball!

Anyway, I know that someone is going to jump me for saying I am good at this, but so be it. I am also a good college instructor, counselor, and camp counselor in the summer!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's hard to talk about a topic like this and seem "nice" if you feel very strongly that people are making a big mistake -- but I'm going to give it my best shot!
...
Do you support the choice to pick an option? To a certain extent - but I think the requirements should be the same in all states and homeschoolers should be more regulated. The ones I saw didn't have to answer to much, at least when the kids were little.

Aunt Polly--your response was very well written.

Regarding the requirements--if homeschool requirements need to be the same then all schools would have to be the same. And like several other elements of running a state--education is left to the state to decide on how to run it. Homeschooling falls under this umbrella as it is just another way to have your child educated.

 

[pamlet]

Well I'm glad I cracked you up! In the spirit of trying to keep this upbeat I'm going to just say that not all students are entertained (or should need to be) at all times of the day and some kids are better than others at things and some kids will be bored when they are teaching the things you aren't so good at and that's just part of life's lessons. If you can learn this, it's just as good as anything you learn in school.

You make a good point ... no matter what type of schooling we have there are going to be times that you are "bored". It happens in homeschooling just as it does traditional schooling.

I think that homeschooling gets more scrutiny because it is NOT traditional. Just as there are people who should not be homeschooling, there are teachers who should not be teachers.

All types of education have pros and cons... One of the biggest "Cons" in any type of traditional schooling for my son was the fact that his physical limitations kept him from learning ANYTHING in the morning... when we first started homeschooling I had gaps to fill with him. Thankfully we're caught up now, but had he stayed in school the gaps would have just gotten larger. Beyond that all of us have different learning styles, and in a traditional school environment the teacher cannot meet all those styles, some children may get short changed. Those are the ones that I think benefit most from homeschooling.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Well I'm glad I cracked you up! In the spirit of trying to keep this upbeat I'm going to just say that not all students are entertained (or should need to be) at all times of the day and some kids are better than others at things and some kids will be bored when they are teaching the things you aren't so good at and that's just part of life's lessons. If you can learn this, it's just as good as anything you learn in school.

Just to say that I can be as boring as any classroom teacher! You just ask my son who thinks I am evilness incarnate right now for making him do so many story problems AND giving the lecture that all math problems in "real life" are story problems so he had best just suckitup and do them!