homeschool ? Please help.

[Mary2e]

For the 3rd time.... The home school regulations vary greatly from state to state. As for that very small sector of religious home schoolers, they would (and many do) form religious private schools if/when homeschooling is not an option.

I got that. There are a few that are reading more into what I am saying and just clarifying.

There is agreement that some of these children are receiving poor educations and if they live in a state with lax regulations or without standardized testing, well, I guess them's the breaks. More dropouts and more people earning barely enough to live. These are the children I am asking about.

And apparently, all HS parents are getting their kickers in a knot because I'm curious about this one group.

 

[Mary2e]

I was just trying to give more info..I wasned feeling insulted or anything

Thank you. I really appreciate it. But it appears my curiosity has ruffled some feathers.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm wondering about those states that are lax about testing too. How does anyone truly know whether students in those states have been given appropriate educations?

 

[Aisling]

I don't home school, but I find it interesting that the champions of the National Spelling and Geography Bees have all been home schooled in recent years.

 

[mandy200587]

My college admitted me with four years of math, my highest being geometry (you did algebra 2 then geometry). I took Chemistry and passed it with about a C. I went to a school that had gateways, that are a form of testing. By the time I left in '05 they had one for Biology, US History, English, Math, and I believe there was talk about one for Chemistry also. You also had the Writing Assessment in 11th grade. I had to take remedial classes my first semester in college because of my ACT scores and that helped me more. There were things that I didn't learn in English class that I learned in Remedial English on campus.

 

[momof2inPA]

Again, you are being overly sensitive. You admit there is a small group doing their children a disservice. I did not say all.

Did someone say that only 28 states have any requirements for home schooling? I know my state wasn't on the list.

I also did not say it should not be allowed. I am asking, for my own education, what provisions, if any, are made for home schooled children to ensure they receive the appropriate education and to protect them from their well meaning parents, who think that teaching a girl to sew is more important than math. That's all.

Like I said, some are certainly very sensitive about this subject.

I'm sorry if my dissecting your argument gave you the impression that I am in some way emotionally attached to this subject. I am not. You seem to be biased against homeschooling. When one of your arguments is refuted, you jump to another.

Jenny said that 28 states have "testing" requirements. That doesn't mean that the remaining states do not have curriculum or portfolio requirements.

If you would like a state by state run-down, you can view one on the HSLDA website, and here's an interesting article about ACT scores from that website:

Once Again Homeschoolers Score High on the ACT Exam

Recently released statistics show the 2006 average ACT composite score for homeschooled students was 22.4, compared to the national average composite of 21.1!

Now homeschoolers have an unbroken record for the last 10 years—since 1996, when testing officials started tracking them—of scoring higher on the ACT than the national average.

For example, the 2005 average ACT composite score for homeschooled students was 22.5, compared to the national average of 20.9.
The 8,075 homeschool graduates who took the ACT in 2005 comprised about 1 percent of all those who took the college entrance exam.

The 1996 ACT results showed that in English, homeschoolers scored 22.5, compared to the national average of 20.3. In math, homeschoolers scored 19.2, compared to the national average of 20.2. In reading, homeschoolers outshone their public school counterparts 24.1 to 21.3. In science, homeschoolers scored 21.9, compared to 21.1.

According to the 1998 ACT High School Profile Report, 2,610 graduating homeschoolers took the ACT and scored an average of 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. This score is slightly higher than the 1997 report released on the results of 1,926 homeschool graduates, which found that homeschoolers maintained an average of 22.5. This is higher than the national average, which was 21.0 in both 1997 and 1998.

In 2003, Iowa State University’s admissions department data showed that homeschoolers had a 26.1 mean ACT composite score, as compared to a 24.6 mean score for all entering freshmen beginning in the fall of that year. The University of Iowa and the University of Northern Iowa (UNI) have also seen higher ACT and SAT averages from homeschoolers in comparison to the total school population. The cumulative admissions data from UNI reveals that the average ACT score for homeschoolers was nearly 2 points higher than that of regular freshmen: 25 versus 23.5.

In 2004, the 7,858 homeschool students taking the ACT scored an average of 22.6, compared to the national average of 20.9.

Since 1985, research consistently shows that homeschoolers on average do better than the national average on standardized achievement tests for the elementary and secondary grade levels.

This academic success continues through college.

The bottom line is: Homeschooling works!

 

[momof2inPA]

There is agreement that some of these children are receiving poor educations and if they live in a state with lax regulations or without standardized testing, well, I guess them's the breaks. More dropouts and more people earning barely enough to live. These are the children I am asking about.

And apparently, all HS parents are getting their kickers in a knot because I'm curious about this one group.

Again, many public school students receive sub-standard educations, but I'm sure you wouldn't propose scrapping the entire public school system.

For the record, I don't homeschool, but I did until my oldest was in third grade. Now, my sons attend private school. Interesting to note: My oldest son's standardized test scores were higher when he was homeschooled.

 

[meandtheguys2]

As mush as I hate the philosphy of HSLDA their map and info is probably the best all in one resourse on what the various state laws are.
http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

It about killed you to put that link in there, didn't it?

 

[meandtheguys2]

I'm wondering about those states that are lax about testing too. How does anyone truly know whether students in those states have been given appropriate educations?

I don't know, honestly. I guess that there is an assumption that no parent wants their child to be stupid. A parent undertaking the task of homeschooling does so for some pretty strong reasons. It isn't an easy job. It is hard, and frustrating, with the underlying stress of fearing I've forgotten something.

Of course there will be an abuse of the system, somewhere. There will be children who receive substandard educations. However, there are a horrific number of children who receive substandard educations within the traditional educational system also. No system is perfect. Most people in both situations are working hard to provide all that is possible for the children in their care.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not a big fan of homeschooling and thought the spelling error in the title was sort of comically unfortunate, but I hardly think one typo and "ance" instead of "ence" disqualifies someone from being a teacher.

OP, I think teens really need to have input into their education and unless there are pretty severe reasons he shouldn't attend school you need to let him.

I agree with all except the "not a big fan" since we do homeschool.

I have seen posted on this very board tales of teachers in the school system who make errors a time or two in spelling, grammar, and even in math problems.

This is a discussion board and not a thesis. Taking stabs at the OP for typos is a bit low IMHO.

As far as your last statement. I absolutely agree. If you cannot get a teen on board to whatever path you have chosen for them, then it is time to evaluate whether the chosen path is suitable for them.

OP--I would suggest in addition to anything else recommended here on both sides, that you contact a local support group with moms of similar aged students. We have high school age students in our group and I have seen those that homeschool willingly and those that would rather not do any school at all of any kind. I do know one parent who homeschooled her oldest, then sent him to a Christian school for one year of high school and then took him out the following year at his request b/c he no longer had a desire to go to a b&m school. He once again is homeschooling, joyfully I might add.

It won't kill your son to go one year in a public school if he wants to test those waters. You can always change your mind next year if you decide it isn't in his best interest to continue. That is always your option as a parent of a teen. You can extend an opportunity and then retract it at any time if it doens't work out.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think at 13 his point of view should hold a lot of weight in where he goes to school. I don't blame him for wanting to go to school. I would think homeschooling for highschool would be very lonely and they would miss out on a lot of the social side of school and learning to deal with a variety of teachers styles and also different people. He may also be craving a bit of independence from Mommy which is natural with a teen and a critical component to growing up. As far as the notes from school, Highschool is very different from elem. or middle, they really don't send any notes! They rely on the students to be mature enough to keep track of things and anything super critical like school fees or medical forms are usually mailed, or on the schools website.

I believe this to be rather subjective.

We are members of an excellent home school community that offers group tutoring, socials, activities, a prom, and a graduation.

If you isolate yourself, what you mention can happen. But as I encouraged in my prior post, it can pay off to do some research of local support groups that extend those types of opportunities.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What grades do you homeschool? Is it possible to safely homeschool AP-level Chemistry?

Brandie

AP Chemistry is not a requirement in ANY state to graduate high school.

To answer in regards to regular chemistry, yes you can safely teach it at home. Lab materials are available for purchase.

I don't recall all the vendors who sell the materials as we are not at that level yet. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Tobin's labs. I know they sell many lab materials. There are others as well that sell more of what you would see in a high school lab. You can even purchase a pig to dissect if you so desire. (ETA before I get told how dissection is not chemistry: For biology of course!)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And what college admits them without these basic courses?

Calculus is not a basic course. It is an advanced course. Many college degrees don't even require it. (From my limited memory of the zillion degrees my university offered...engineering, math, and heavy science degrees required it.)

My degree did not require it in college. (I believe the minimum for my degree was some kind of "fundamental math". For the life of me I have no idea what that is since I did take calculus. I even took Calc 2 "for fun").



And for those worried about Florida--Florida offers dual enrollment. High school kids can take college course work...FOR FREE! And they can have it count as their high school credit and college credit. Many home school families and public school families take advantage of this wonderful opportunity. It is how I took care of my college level composition course work many moons ago.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

*nod* Okee dokee. Thanks for the explanation.

It -kiiiiiiills- me to see parents describe their kids as "not the college type," I have to admit. My mom just finished her Bachelor's the other day, because she found that she needed it to keep a job. The woman has over 20 years of experience in IT, with an Associate's degree from a community college.

'Does that make sense?
Brandie

Do you want to hear something funny?


My sister just lost her job from a lay off BECAUSE OF HER COLLEGE DEGREE!

The person who made the decision is about 2 fries short of a Happy Meal. The logic imposed was that since she was the only one with a degree, she would have the easier time of finding a job.

As true as that MIGHT be it is a bit screwed up, don't you think?

 

[meandtheguys2]

Ohio allows double dipping, too. I would much rather my kids take college courses than AP courses.

My sons are engineers at heart, and will be taking a full math schedule. Where my abilities slack, their father will take over. And if they make it past his, they will be taking courses at MC (free because I work there when I choose), OU (free because DH works there) or, if necessary, the community college (also free.)

Biology will be co-op, Anatomy and Zoology will be mine, and they will probably take chemistry and physics at the college also.

The funny thing is, that these are all available in a small OH city. I envy those who live in large cities with even more options!

 

[Crankyshank]

Well, then I would say more than 50% of the kids graduating from school right now are not getting an appropriate education because that's about the percentage that doesn't take calculus

I go to a fairly prestigous private college now and have had no difficulties because I have never taken any sort of calculus. I don't even need calc to graduate from this college. I would ask anyone who feels my education is lacking to spend one night in school with me. My friends don't call me Hermione for nothing

 

[CraftyMouse]

Thank you. I really appreciate it. But it appears my curiosity has ruffled some feathers.

I don't think you've ruffled any feathers. You keep saying that people are sensitive but all I see are posters trying to answer your questions. I don't think anyone is being sensitive.

I did want to say, however, that I think assumptions are being made. We have to be very careful not to over-generalize. Not all homeschoolers who are religious are zealots or idiots...and they have a right to their opinions. Not all homeschoolers are lacking in upper level science or math. There are many, many shades of gray here, just as with traditionally-schooled kids.

And while some homeschoolers certainly don't get a complete education the same can be said for some children in regular school. Let's talk about the drop-out rate and the fact that those kids don't get what they need, or kids who finish school having taken the bare minimum of courses. It's a problem that affects all children, homeschooled or not, and I would look to the parents. Yes, some homeschooled parents are not "doing right" by their kids, but the same is true for parents in every sector of society.

 

[CraftyMouse]

I also wanted to add something about Calculus. DD15 is planning on becoming an engineer. Most engineering schools require Pre-Calc for admittance, not Calculus. It is rare, these days, for kids to take calculus in high school. Most take Geometry, Algebra II, Trig and pre-Calc in high school, assuming they took Algebra I in middle school. Calculus is usually taught at the college level which was also true when I went to school. I had no math courses after Geometry and took Calc. when I went to college.

As far as high school requirements, most colleges expect 4 years of english, 4 years of history, 3 years of science (at least 2 with a lab), 3 years of math (Alg. I, Geometry & Alg. II), 2 years of foreign language and electives. Anything above that definitely looks good but is not required. DD will finish high school with all of these requirements met plus an extra year of foreign language, an extra year of science with a lab and two extra years of math (Trig & Pre-Calc).

 

[Crankyshank]

I don't home school, but I find it interesting that the champions of the National Spelling and Geography Bees have all been home schooled in recent years.

I actually don't find it too far fetched. I don't think it indicates homeschooling is superior (not saying that's what you are implying, but others have in the past both here and in RL)

When you homeschool, you can alter your schedule and allow for more creative learning processes. You're at an advantage with bees when you homeschool because you can change your schedule around to account for devoted studying for it. You also are not tied down to a 6 hour day that has to encompass X number of subjects.

 

[Mary2e]

I'm sorry if my dissecting your argument gave you the impression that I am in some way emotionally attached to this subject. I am not. You seem to be biased against homeschooling. When one of your arguments is refuted, you jump to another.

Jenny said that 28 states have "testing" requirements. That doesn't mean that the remaining states do not have curriculum or portfolio requirements.

<....snip?

The bottom line is: Homeschooling works!

I'm not arguing for or against. I asked a question regarding a small subset of students. What I get are statistics regarding the GOOD students and indignant parents trying to make it seem I'm saying something I am not. Who is changing the argument now?

I never said homeschooling is a bad idea, nor that those students did not do as well or better. Just that I became curious when one earlier poster commented about his reglious relative and the fact that those children were receiving poor homeschooling.

It appears that some homeschooling parents have a major chip on their shoulders. The good ones are the ones who are suffering from those who aren't qualified to housebreak a dog, much less educate a child. It's up to those parents to make sure this does not happen or the good HSers are the ones to suffer.

But don't cover up for them. Expose them. Ensure there is testing of all students, and not just a review or standard curriculum. Anything can be faked... test results cannot.