Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

Status
Not open for further replies.
Robin, I'm just gently dropping by with a bit of a befuddlement. Why are writers for The National Review (DISUNC's post) as well as The Powerline Blog being quoted here as if they're great sources? Those are both arch-conservative publications, the darlings of the Republicans. Hope it's OK to ask.
I'll check back later. The cupboard is bare, and so it's off to the grocery I go.

:confused3 I did not post it but I think it was just to bring forth that she had a recent speech and this is what came out of it. I am looking for the you tube speech. But my opinion Of Michell was already not that great. So this article did not sway me either way. I do not like her at all. I do like Obama more than her however.
 
You do realize that those same things were said about Hillary as a reason not to vote for Bill, don't you?

Well, Bill made it and there shouldn't be problems with Barack then, right? I just don't like Michelle's speaking style. Her voice grates on my nerves and the whining gets to me. I have no idea what the lady is about without the microphones and such. She's probably less rigid when she's not in the public eye. I just hope I don't have to hear her speak again.

I do agree that Barack has a calmness about his speaking that is wonderful to hear. I just hope that there's not a Michelle lying inside him somewhere waiting to come out when the popularity contest is over.
 
I think this article makes some good points:


--------------------------------
Sarah Churchwell: Hang on in there, Hillary. It's too soon to quit


Thursday, 8 May 2008


Last October, a revelatory Vanity Fair article called "Going After Gore" traced the dubious history of the "toxic coverage" in the US media that irreparably damaged Gore's chances in the 2000 election. The effortless charm of George W Bush was relentlessly contrasted with Gore's inability to turn charm on like a tap.


Gore was seen as too focused on the minutiae of policy, and as someone who wasn't a natural politician, whose lack of ease with the press, and the public, was a liability in a campaign increasingly run on personality and on rhetoric. Bush was the man reporters wanted to have a beer with: a roguish, fun-loving guy who'd be "a different kind of Republican". Meanwhile, a journalist with Time magazine admitted: "It's really easy, and it's fun to disprove Al Gore." And so they went for him, setting him up and then shooting him down.

As the calls for Hillary Clinton, another "unnatural" politician and "charmless" policy wonk who has been excoriated by the press, to concede the primary race for the Democratic nomination to Barack Obama grow louder and more hectoring, it seems worth pausing to consider whether history might have anything to teach.

The most common reason put forward for insisting that Clinton "do the right thing" and "bow out graciously" is that she is doing the Democratic party, and its chances in November, irretrievable harm by prolonging the internecine struggle of the primary contest and taking it to the convention (despite the fact that the chairman of the National Democratic Committee, Howard Dean, has suggested that the nomination should be decided around 1 July).

A similar argument was advanced in 2000, pressuring Gore to concede the presidency to Bush, or risk a "constitutional crisis" – American code for "rip the country apart". He was told he couldn't win, that the people had spoken, that he should concede graciously and let the system work – the one the Republicans were busy rigging. So he conceded. That turned out well, didn't it?

Yes, the general election is different from the primaries. But far from being an especially protracted Democratic primary, this one is right on historical track. June is actually the magic month, in which the Democratic nomination was clinched in 1992 by Bill Clinton; in 1988 by Dukakis (Jesse Jackson didn't withdraw until June); in 1984 by Mondale (who didn't officially gain the nomination until the convention in July); in 1976 by Carter; and in 1972, the first year in which the present primary system operated, by McGovern. The only exception to the June rule was the 1980 election, in which Edward Kennedy fought on against Carter all the way until the convention in August. Only in the last two elections, in other words, has the Democratic nomination been a foregone conclusion this early in the primary process. And neither the results of 2000 or 2004 should send Democrats rushing to foreclose their options.

The other argument for Clinton's summary withdrawal is that using superdelegates would somehow be cheating, subverting the democratic process by asking party mandarins to overrule the popular vote and, while they're at it, refuse the first viable African-American candidate his legitimate shot at the White House. But no one seems to have any compunction about insisting that the first woman with a legitimate chance withdraw from the race. And yes, the superdelegates are a legitimate route: the US primaries are not mini-national elections, they are much closer to the UK system of electing a party leader, who then seeks the popular vote in a general election.

Meanwhile, that much-vaunted primary "popular vote" that Clinton has lost doesn't take account of the Democrats or independents in Michigan or Florida, both of which will be swing states in November; or that only 60,000 popular votes separate Clinton and Obama if Michigan and Florida are counted; or that the superdelegate rule was created precisely in order to decide primary races in which there was no clear popular mandate. It is by no means definitionally sexist to call for Clinton to resign, but given how gingerly everyone is approaching the question of Obama's (mixed) race, it seems worth letting the country prove the point.

But the most important reason to cease pressuring Clinton to quit is that the media and the blogosphere, delighting in their sportive shredding of Gore's electoral chances in 2000, helped pave the way for the disastrous US administration of the last eight years. If the media enjoyed dismantling Gore, their pursuit of Clinton has been blood-sport. Let's allow history, and democracy, to play out their course – and stop creating self-fulfilling prophecies.

The writer is a senior lecturer in American literature and culture at the University of East Anglia


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...here-hillary-its-too-soon-to-quit-822750.html
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";24994002]I

In addition if he gets the nom there is no reason for me to vote this election because DH will not vote for him he will go back to his REP party and vote McCain or he wont vote at all. So if he votes McCain and I were to vote Obama we again would cancel each others votes. This could be the first time in 30 years that I have not gone to the polls:sad1:[/QUOTE]


Why not have your husband stay home so his vote doesn't cancel at yours? Why should the man get to vote and not the woman?
 

I don't care who posts where. I've never been a fan of shoot the messenger type posts. That goes for links too. Provide a copy of her stump speeches from a different source and we'll discuss them.

Obama's race speech was posted on Drudge first. Drudge was a naughty place for dems in the 2006 race. Now he seems to have a connection to the Obama camp.

Fair Enough. It's kind of a new thing to me to find they are highly thought of by arch-republicans and certain democrats alike.
 
If you really want to know who Michelle Obama is, why not actually get it from the source, instead of posting articles from extreme right-wing nutbars like Powerline and the National Review?

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Michelle+Obama&hl=en&sitesearch=

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?ei=UTF-8&p=Michelle+Obama

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Michelle+Obama&search_type=

Have fun. :thumbsup2

seen them and sorry still dont care for her. OS have no problem with some of her speeches or Rev Wright or Ares or anyone else in his life. Many many others do.
 
Well, Bill made it and there shouldn't be problems with Barack then, right? I just don't like Michelle's speaking style. Her voice grates on my nerves and the whining gets to me. I have no idea what the lady is about without the microphones and such. She's probably less rigid when she's not in the public eye. I just hope I don't have to hear her speak again.

I do agree that Barack has a calmness about his speaking that is wonderful to hear. I just hope that there's not a Michelle lying inside him somewhere waiting to come out when the popularity contest is over.


Yes, and a lot of people didn't like the sound of Hillary's voice, hence the nickname some OS use that is so annoying to many of you (and me also).

I'm just astounded by the irony of attacking a potential first lady when that was what Hillary went through.

And no it will not hurt Obama, it just looks petty and desparate to be attacking the wife especially when Hillary went through that.

I thought then, the attacking of Bill by attacking Hillary was stupid, petty and anti-woman. JMHO.
 
/
Yes, and a lot of people didn't like the sound of Hillary's voice, hence the nickname some OS use that is so annoying to many of you (and me also).

I'm just astounded by the irony of attacking a potential first lady when that was what Hillary went through.

And no it will no hurt Obama, it just looks petty and desparate to be attacking the wife especially when Hillary went through that.

I thought then, the attacking of Bill by attacking Hillary was stupid, petty and anti-woman. JMHO.
I totally agree with you Chobie.
 
Okay...why is it that anytime we post something the OS do not like to read half of you have to come over here and get into our faces about it. Gessh come on already. If we did that every time we read something about Hillary or Bill or anything on those lines we would have to call it the Obama Hillary thread.

Cant you just not do that :confused3 Lily thanks for coming in and tippy toeing and asking your question :flower3:

All of a sudden again we are being bombarded and finding that we have to defend our statements. We have our opinions and of course some of you say well they are not the FACTS.....well there is plenty on the OT that we disagree with as being FACTS....but we don't run over there all the time and tell you that.
 
Yes, and a lot of people didn't like the sound of Hillary's voice, hence the nickname some OS use that is so annoying to many of you (and me also).

I'm just astounded by the irony of attacking a potential first lady when that was what Hillary went through.

And no it will not hurt Obama, it just looks petty and desparate to be attacking the wife especially when Hillary went through that.

I thought then, the attacking of Bill by attacking Hillary was stupid, petty and anti-woman. JMHO.

I'm not "attacking" the potential 1st lady but she chose to make a public speech and that has put her in the spotlight. I don't know much about her.. what she said in that speech raises a few questions with me. I'm not going to ignore it or her since she chose to put it out there. But what I am doing is putting out what I'm learning and trying to learn more about her to be able to seperate fact from fiction.
 
I'm not "attacking" the potential 1st lady but she chose to make a public speech and that has put her in the spotlight. I don't know much about her.. what she said in that speech raises a few questions with me. I'm not going to ignore it or her since she chose to put it out there. But what I am doing is putting out what I'm learning and trying to learn more about her to be able to seperate fact from fiction.


Actually, I wasn't quoting you. I was more referring to Kinntj and GotDisney using the same exact attacks on Michelle that were used on Hillary back then.
 
If you really want to know who Michelle Obama is, why not actually get it from the source, instead of posting articles from extreme right-wing nutbars like Powerline and the National Review?

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Michelle+Obama&hl=en&sitesearch=

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?ei=UTF-8&p=Michelle+Obama

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Michelle+Obama&search_type=

Have fun. :thumbsup2

I knew I could count on your to provide links to her talking.

The first one was good. Afraid...I'm not afraid...Isn't the fact that the Obama campaign has said no more GW fear speading politics? Very interesting.

I really want to watch some of the clips from the day time shows, since I don't have t.v. on during the day to watch them. Those shows, I'm sure she lets her hair and her guard down a bit.
 
So let me get this straight? What Bill said in SC was beyond belief and should be an acceptable reason HC lost the black vote. But Obama shouldn't be held accountable for the words of his wife who's campaigning for him.
 
Actually, I wasn't quoting you. I was more referring to Kinntj and GotDisney using the same exact attacks on Michelle that were used on Hillary back then.

first of all I was not attacking her...I DONT LIKE HER...is there anyone that you don't like :confused3 I have always felt a racist edge and elitist attitude from her from the start. Even before the word Elitist came out at Obama.

I did not call her any attack names or anything like that. I was merely pointing out why I feel this way. So please don't say I am attacking her ...it is not so.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";24995014]first of all I was not attacking her...I DONT LIKE HER...is there anyone that you don't like :confused3 I have always felt a racist edge and elitist attitude from her from the start. Even before the word Elitist came out at Obama.

I did not call her any attack names or anything like that. I was merely pointing out why I feel this way. So please don't say I am attacking her ...it is not so.[/QUOTE]

Okay you are not attacking her, but that does now seem to be a trend in the Hillary camp to take digs out Michelle. That's all fine and well and part of the game, I just can't get past the irony.
 
I'm already a little behind in posting this response as this thread is moving a bit quickly right now.. but do defend myself:

You know, I'm the one who posted the article now in controversy (because of its source). News is news and everything is bias. You should read everything, conservative or liberal, and try to find the truth. I'm not saying, nor did I say, that the article I posted is the absolute above all truth but it was a viewpoint that I found when searching for news articles about the topic and I found it interesting.

In the 2004 election an older gentleman at work came up to me and cracked a joke about Kerry. At the end of the joke he said that that he knew that I was Democrat (actually, I was Republican but voting for Kerry because I wanted Bush OUT… but I didn’t explain that to him) and that’s why he told me the joke.

We wound up in a political debate and everything I said he’d accuse me of being wrong. I was listening to all the liberal news media, ect.. ect..and they are biased and are all wrong ect.. ect..

I was amused throughout his rant – and it turned into a rant- and finally he quieted down and I asked him one question:

So, what news media do you listen to?

He began sputtering and going off about how his news media wasn’t biased and his news media….

My point is – there are conservative takes and liberal takes on everything out there and the conservatives think the liberals are wrong and vise versa.

Just because an article comes from what a liberal would describe as an ‘extreme right-wing nutbar’ doesn’t mean that there’s not a valid point to the article or that there isn’t any truth to it. Just remember… the Republicans think that the liberal media is full of ‘extreme left-wing nutbars’.
 
I knew I could count on your to provide links to her talking.

Glad I could oblige. ;)

The first one was good. Afraid...I'm not afraid...Isn't the fact that the Obama campaign has said no more GW fear speading politics? Very interesting.

I think I may be misinterpreting what you meant by your post, but I don't think there is any comparison between what she was saying there and GWB's fear tactics he uses to get people to support him. I saw it much more as Michelle saying that there is nothing to be afraid of, despite what you may be hearing from other sources.

I really want to watch some of the clips from the day time shows, since I don't have t.v. on during the day to watch them. Those shows, I'm sure she lets her hair and her guard down a bit.

She does, but she's pretty informal when she's "on the stump" too, for that matter. Michelle is a woman that tells it like she sees it, and I admire that in her.
 
Actually, I wasn't quoting you. I was more referring to Kinntj and GotDisney using the same exact attacks on Michelle that were used on Hillary back then.

I voted for Bill and the only thing I can't stand about Hillary is her cackling laugh. I do love her though and her speeches, but please Hillary...don't laugh...it drives me crazy. It's just an opinion of mine. Just like what I say about Michelle is an opinion. I did say that the first link to Michelle's speech that revy posted as a good speech. Better than what I've seen recently.

I don't think it's anti-woman with what I'm saying. At least I don't think it is. :confused3

I didn't know that what was being posted was articles from far right wing websites. I just happen to agree with the one that was posted. It doesn't make me a right winged Republican, it's just I have opinions and I stated them. I WILL still vote for Barack, but I hope critics (even if they come from the other side of the aisle) can get her to ease up a bit.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Glad I could oblige. ;)


I think I may be misinterpreting what you meant by your post, but I don't think there is any comparison between what she was saying there and GWB's fear tactics he uses to get people to support him. I saw it much more as Michelle saying that there is nothing to be afraid of, despite what you may be hearing from other sources.

No, you're not misinterpreting things. I got it! Thanks.

She does, but she's pretty informal when she's "on the stump" too, for that matter. Michelle is a woman that tells it like she sees it, and I admire that in her.

I might warm up to it too, but I guess since I'm for the other candidate, I never thought much about it, then from an outside perspective. As you can tell, I'm no speech writer myself. Thank Goodness, I'm not in politics.

:)
 
I voted for Bill and the only thing I can't stand about Hillary is her cackling laugh. I do love her though and her speeches, but please Hillary...don't laugh...it drives me crazy. It's just an opinion of mine. Just like what I say about Michelle is an opinion. I did say that the first link to Michelle's speech that revy posted as a good speech. Better than what I've seen recently.

I don't think it's anti-woman with what I'm saying. At least I don't think it is. :confused3

I didn't know that what was being posted was articles from far right wing websites. I just happen to agree with the one that was posted. It doesn't make me a right winged Republican, it's just I have opinions and I stated them. I WILL still vote for Barack, but I hope critics (even if they come from the other side of the aisle) can get her to ease up a bit.

That's all I'm saying.



You almost never hear comments saying that someone can't stand a man because of the sound of his voice. Villifying women by how they talk (shrill, chiding, scolding) is a time honored tradition. Women who are outspoken, such as Hillary, will get nasty comments made about the sound of their voice, when really its the fact that they dare to have an opinion that offends people. When a woman talks forcably about a subject she is being strident, *****y, shrill etc. When a man talks that way he is being strong.


The best way a woman can avoid being ridiculed for the sound of her voice is too keep her mouth shut, then she will be admired like Cindy McCain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.













Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE














DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top