Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

[DISUNC]

I came over here before (a month or so ago )trying to get along...but was told it was too soon.... like don't try and get together until Hillary leaves the race...
she has not left yet and it confused me....she has not done what most ( I won't say all because I do not know for a fact that all have) politicians do when a race is lost.... so maybe I am not sure how to react yet? ( this does not mean I am celebrating any less for obama or that i want hillarys head on a stick....as someone said OS want )
Do we try and unify...do we leave you all alone...
It seems OS are damned if they do and damned if they don't ...

If we comment ...remarks are made about this board being invaded....
if we don't notes are left for the OS lurkers

Some on both threads have said inflamitory and hurtful things....
but that only makes me think less of them ..not their candidate of choice...

I for one have NOOOOOOOOOOOO problem with anyone posting anywhere.
Personally I just hate when people show up on threads marked "no bashing please" (regardless of what precedes it) and then Bash!

First of all, go back and remember some of Hillary statements from the late winter, early spring -- at a time when Obama was clearly leading the popular vote. Hillary was the person who started saying that the superdelegates should not base their decision on the popular vote. Why isn't her logic good enough for you now (of course, she changed her tune later to suit her own needs)?

Yup she said that! And yes they listened to her!

It was the Obama supporters who said that the SD's MUST go with the popular vote. Somehow the OS are OK with that bit of logic.

Also, the popular vote numbers are flawed. That is because Hillary was the only person on the ballot in Michigan. Hillary also likes to ignore the votes in the caucus states. In reality, all we can say about the popular vote is that it was close to 50/50. And Hillary is the one who argued that superdelegates should make up their own minds. She got just what she asked for.

OIY! How can you say the Popular vote is flawed, yet the caucess aren't?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Go back many pages. The whole Obama took his name OFF the MI ballot, and urged others to do so too, is all explained there. It is all very highly suspect on Obamas part.

"Hillary Clinton Did NOT Win the Popular Vote - Media Needs to Point This Out
by cscmm
Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:15:40 AM PDT
I would like to point out that Hillary Clinton did NOT win the popular vote during the Democratic race for a presidential nominee – according to RealPolitics.com.

Barack Obama without IA, NV, ME, WA caucuses and without Michigan, ended up with 33,916 more votes than Hillary Clinton.

Barack Obama with IA, NV, ME, WA caucuses and without Michigan, ended up with 144,138 more votes than Hillary Clinton.

RealPolitics

cscmm's diary :: ::
Even if you include Michigan and the caucuses of IA, NV, ME and WA (giving Obama the Uncommitted in Michigan – remember, his name wasn’t on the ballot for voters to choose from, Hillary’s was – the State vote wasn’t suppose to be counted), Barack Obama still leads by 53,997 votes. The only way Hillary can CLAIM the popular vote is if she is allowed to count the Michigan primary and nothing from that race is given to Obama.

Voters in Michigan were told their vote would not count, so thousands more might have voted if they knew it would have counted. Barack Obama’s name was not on the ballot. He like the other Democratic candidates, except Hillary, removed their names from the ballot.

Think about Michigan’s primary vote as a sport event. You have two basketball players competing to see who can get the most free throws. During the 'official timing’, player one gets 22 baskets and player two gets 18. During a practice session however, player two gets 12 more and player one gets none.

Player one is announced the winner – player two says, "Whoa wait a minute, I got a total of 30 baskets. I’m the winner!"

Hillary Clinton is of course, player two. She's demanding something that didn't officially count and refuses to give Obama the same sense of entitlement.

I'll give Hillary this -- she did make history during the primary to be the first woman to have come 'so close' to winning and getting almost 18 million votes.

But the fact remains, Barack Obama won 242 more delegates and he won the popular vote"

found this online....

Well we all now how "cscmm's diary :: :: " is so very acurate!!!!!
Please dont quote facts from peoples blogs, with wrong infomation here. Also It would be nice for links.

Here is the link to the REAL Real clear politics website!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Popular Vote (w/MI) Clinton +286,687​

Thanks. I'm really just going on the crowds we saw at their events and rallies. There was a significant difference in the level (and size) of support there.

And yes, more people did vote for her in elections, but we can't discount the states that held caucuses or the people that participated in them. Their voices are not included in that popular vote total.

There lyes the problem with the current DNC primary rules!

DISUNC, you have numbers on this, right? Did Hillary win the popular vote?

YOU DOUBT ME?????????

Hope you don't mind a republican's point of view on this one. If McCain picks Huckabee, the hair on the back of my neck will stand at attention. I do NOT want some bible thumper being a VP. I am a more moderate conservative and while I lean more to the right, I like the way McCain seems to be more in the middle.

Kristine

When there were 20 Primary candidates (both sides) the 2 I found too be the scariest were Obama & Huckabee!!!! I McCain picks Huckabee ....thats it..Im outta here!

 

[Dolce27]

That was rude.... he more than likely would rather be on the 'M' mccain or
'c' conservative thread......

those are the real clinton haters....or did you begin to believe them when they were being nicey nicey to you HS during the primaries????

The Republicans have been leaving us alone on this thread (I guess with the exception of one that’s recently shown up?) You’ll find pages and pages of the OS over here bashing us and Hillary so if someone comes on here making a rude comment, I’ll assume it’s just another OS first before I assume that it is a Republican.

Oh, and trust me, I know the Republicans hold no love for the Clintons. I grew up with two very conservative Republican parents. If the Clinton name was mentioned, a few irate comments were sure to follow.

 

[DISUNC]

But the popular vote is irrelevant

Did you say that to Al Gore supporters in 2000??????

 

[DISUNC]

Boy, go away for a couple of days and this thread is damn near unrecognizable.



SDs were put in place precisely to overcome a stupid popular vote decision and select the person most likely to win in November.

In this case, however, the popular vote got it right and Obama just won the battle (with SD support) only to lose the war.

 

[kaytieeldr]

What other way would act as a true disincentive?

If the voters in MI and FL are unhappy with what happened, they should throw their elected politicians out of office.

Ah, but how does electing other candidates in future elections, allow the Primary votes by Florida and Michigan residents to matter in THIS election?

 

[ammo]

Did you say that to Al Gore supporters in 2000??????

How convenient (for you) that you only quoted part of my sentence. Completely changed its meaning.

That reminds me of a verse from the Bible, which says that "perfect love casts out fear." I heard somebody joke that "perfect love casts out" teenagers that won't behave. That's not really consistent with the original.

 

[LuvDuke]

To be fair in terms of the FL votes, I do believe many did not go out to vote because we were told it wouldn't count anyway. Plus, those who did go may have voted for a candidate only because they didn't want to not vote for someone, but were only really there to vote for our homestead exemption ruling.

Also, since FL is a closed primary, no one registered as anything but Democrat cannot participate, which would keep out any independents wishing to vote for either party.

Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever really know what really could've been the outcome.

Lest we forget, Florida voters alse went to the poll because there was a vote on a constitutional amendment for one of the biggest tax changes in Florida. That always seems to get lost.

The fact is we have no way of knowing what would've happened in FL or in MI. To lay claim to either vote is either delusional or dishonest. At this point, I vote for both.

 

[akhenaten]

Did you say that to Al Gore supporters in 2000??????

I did ..because the electoral college is our system for electing the president.....

 

[ammo]

Ah, but how does electing other candidates in future elections, allow the Primary votes by Florida and Michigan residents to matter in THIS election?

They ended up getting half credit, which is 50% more than Hillary agreed to give them at the beginning of this process.

 

["Got Disney"]

Lest we forget, Florida voters alse went to the poll because there was a vote on a constitutional amendment for one of the biggest tax changes in Florida. That always seems to get lost.

The fact is we have no way of knowing what would've happened in FL or in MI. To lay claim to either vote is either delusional or dishonest. At this point, I vote for both.

So when they wer out there voting on that why didnt they vote for Obama???? or did just the Hillary supporters come out to vote on the constitutional amendment

 

[Dolce27]

I for one have NOOOOOOOOOOOO problem with anyone posting anywhere.
Personally I just hate when people show up on threads marked "no bashing please" (regardless of what precedes it) and then Bash!

That's my issue too. Anyone that has come over here and was nice, I've been fine with. It's the rude, bashing ones that I tell to go home.

Yup she said that! And yes they listened to her!

It was the Obama supporters who said that the SD's MUST go with the popular vote. Somehow the OS are OK with that bit of logic.

Oh yeah.. I forgot about the 2nd part there. Eh, just another double standard - huh?


Oh, and DISUNC, since you're around - I have another article to follow-up that first article that I sent to you. Did you have a chance to read it yet? Since these people were brought up on this thread a few pages ago, I'll just post this here:
(I think that this is just the tip of the iceburg of what the GOP can get ahold of on this man)

Obama, We Are Smarter; We Follow the Money, and It Links You to Bill Ayers in the 1980s

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/0...-and-it-links-you-to-bill-ayers-in-the-1980s/

 

[Dolce27]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";25528004]So when they wer out there voting on that why didnt they vote for Obama???? or did just the Hillary supporters come out to vote on the constitutional amendment [/QUOTE]

That's been my question. People just went to vote for something else and skipped over the presidential candidate part on the ballot?

Doesn’t make sense to me. Even if I didn’t think my vote would ‘count’ if I’m already there I’d still mark it along with everything else I was voting for that day.

 

[punkin]

That's been my question. People just went to vote for something else and skipped over the presidential candidate part on the ballot?

Doesn’t make sense to me. Even if I didn’t think my vote would ‘count’ if I’m already there I’d still mark it along with everything else I was voting for that day.

Particularly since Obama was the only candidate running ads in Florida. You would think people would know to vote for him.

 

[akhenaten]

That's been my question. People just went to vote for something else but just skipped over the presidential candidate part on the ballot?

Doesn’t make sense to me. Even if I didn’t think my vote would ‘count’ if I’m already there I’d still mark it along with everything else I was voting for that day.

It makes perfect sense...
I just voted in a primary and did not vote for any candidate for senator....because I had not researched the candidates...

since they were not campaigning in Florida...I could easily see folks not vote for the same reason....

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

They ended up getting half credit, which is 50% more than Hillary agreed to give them at the beginning of this process.

And the same for Obama. Last week both candidates had people for them stating both places should be seated. It was just a discussion on how many delegates for which candidate. Which part of this equation do some people conveniently forget?

 

[Dolce27]

It makes perfect sense...
I just voted in a primary and did not vote for any candidate for senator....because I had not researched the candidates...

since they were not campaigning in Florida...I could easily see folks not vote for the same reason....

The presidential candidates are much higher profile than your state senator candidates are. Even if the candidates weren't campaigning in the state, the majority of people knew who they were from the news and the internet. There were press events and all going on from other state primaries that was being covered by all news media.

Besides, Obama did find a loophole and campaign in Florida.

 

[DISUNC]

Polls are not votes!! Therefore it is ridiculous to claim to have won something that can not even be counted!! to act like something was taken away from hillary is silly...it was extremly close and she lost.....

It is a spin !!!
.

TELL THAT TO THE 17,822,145 people who actually went to the polls and clicked on her name. The most ever Primary votes in the history of this country!
Amazing how the OS supporters want to discount 17,822,145 voters but somehow count the caucases as fair & accurate!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ballot in MI is a fact, old or not. Hillary originally agreed that MI's early primary should not count -- that is a fact. .

FACT..if you didnt sign the paper YOU COULD NOT RUN FOR PRESIDENT!
FACT.. Obama was perfectly OK with NOT counting Fl & MI votes and fought NOT to do a revote! He was perfectly happy with NOT counting the will of the People!

We do differ on our views on the caucus states. I don't believe caucuses reflect the will of the people. Too many people don't attend caucuses.

They reflect the will of the people who have hours of time, and can strongarm others!

That still excludes those 4 caucus states. There are no numbers for them. This popular vote argument is specious.

Not as specious as Obama won the will of the people in the caucas states.

To be fair in terms of the FL votes, I do believe many did not go out to vote because we were told it wouldn't count anyway. Plus, those who did go may have voted for a candidate only because they didn't want to not vote for someone, but were only really there to vote for our homestead exemption ruling.

Also, since FL is a closed primary, no one registered as anything but Democrat cannot participate, which would keep out any independents wishing to vote for either party.

Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever really know what really could've been the outcome.

That is all "obama spin", which is not holding up well with Fl Democrats.

We will never really know of ANY election ever, what the outcomes would have been, "if that" happened. "If this" happened...."iF MY UNCLE DIDNT MARRY MY AUNT I WOULDNT HAVE A COUSIN" scenarios etc.
We dont even know if FL voters were compelled to vote because of the Homestead act.

THE FACT IS We do know that 870,986 Democrats voted for Hillary that day!!!!!! No matter how it is sliced , diced, argued or foolishly interpeted.........the Fl Democrats voted for HER!

I read an article a couple of weeks ago that referenced another article on this topic that was published in the Des Moines Register late last year. I went through the archives of the Des Moines Register to read the actual article, I may have found it, but I'd have to pay money to even view it to see if it really is the article I'm looking for and I decided that I'm not paying money just to prove a point. I did happen across this on wikipeida:



http://www.michigandems.com/121007prs.html


This at least backs my point that the people of MI were told to vote uncommitted for Obama by the MI Democratic Party.

OH YES THEY WERE!!!!!!!!!! Obama himself said so!

Bad guess about my party affiliation. I just choose to apply the same standards to people that I support as I do to people in the other party.

You honestly believe that everyone around the Clintons during their political careers has been squeaky clean? Don't you even remember the Marc Rich pardon (that was less than 12 years ago) around the time of a major Rich family contribution to Hillary's first Senate campaign?

Or are you using a double standard?

No double standard!

How many Clinton Supporters have continuosly said 'GD America" , and spoke violently against white people while the Clintons sat there for 20 years, and applauded this, and financially supported this individual?

How many Clinton supporters have been known to blow up federal buildings?

And if you find any, please answer how Many times have the Clintons denied ever knowing what these people did?

 

[akhenaten]

The presidential candidates are much higher profile than your state senator candidates are. Even if the candidates weren't campaigning in the state, the majority of people knew who they were from the news and the internet. There were press events and all going on from other state primaries that was being covered by all news media.

Besides, Obama did find a loophole and campaign in Florida.

I know who they are.... but i did not know enough about them.... ( and one has been a senator in the past and is VERY well known!)

It really is silly and kind of sour grapes to keep poking at obama...

Read his platform....read mccains.... read any independants ...and vote for who you choose to....

I believe that the Senator who came from nowhere to defeat the clinton "machine" will be able to win in november.....
HIs campaign is not in debt and he convinced the supers he is electable.....and he won the majority of the delegates according to DNC rules

He also got the DNC to agree to not accept $$ from lobbyests today.....

 

[DISUNC]

How convenient (for you) that you only quoted part of my sentence. Completely changed its meaning.

That reminds me of a verse from the Bible, which says that "perfect love casts out fear." I heard somebody joke that "perfect love casts out" teenagers that won't behave. That's not really consistent with the original.

You wrote it!!!!!!!!!

How then can votes be counted sometimes & Not others? When it is in favor of your candidate?

 

[chobie]

Not as specious as Obama won the will of the people in the caucas states.
QUOTE]


Glad to see that you realize that the "popular vote" argument is specious. You just hold on to all that anger so when you go to pull the lever fro McCain out of spite you can really enjoy that moment. I really hope that moment is all that you hope for.