High School parents,please explain the IB program to me

[tvguy]

The difference is that AP is not a program. In IB, you are in it for the IB diploma. AP is a bit more flexible in that you can choose how many and which AP classes you want to take

No, that is incorrect. You can get credit for an IB diploma.

For the diploma, or the classes?

 

[Hrhpd]

For the diploma, or the classes?

You can get college credit for the classes just like AP classes. And just like AP classes, it depends on the University what their criteria is to give credit.

 

[Northstar]

Forgot to mention about college credit. We're in Canada so maybe it's different, but every university DD looked at offered some kind of credit for IB. Most required at least a 5 (IB gives grades of 1 to 7, 7 being highest) for credit.

The university she's going to will give her credit for up to 4 courses; however, in her major, they really, really don't want them to skip the introductory courses. They are giving her credit as electives.

 

[tvguy]

Forgot to mention about college credit. We're in Canada so maybe it's different, but every university DD looked at offered some kind of credit for IB. Most required at least a 5 (IB gives grades of 1 to 7, 7 being highest) for credit.

The university she's going to will give her credit for up to 4 courses; however, in her major, they really, really don't want them to skip the introductory courses. They are giving her credit as electives.

That is basically what some U.S. Universities do. They want you to take THEIR slate of classes, but will find some way to give you credit.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My two just finished high school so it's been interesting hearing where all of their friends and classmates are going to college, etc. In reading this thread, one young man I know (well, actually two young men) came to mind. He worked very hard in high school, taking as many difficult courses as he could (a combination, I believe). He was often up until late into the wee hours doing homework, and I know it caused him an awful lot of stress, as well as a lot of family stress. Back when he was a freshman his goal, and his parents', was to go to an Ivy League school. Lo and behold, another family I know ran into him at college orientation recently. He was at the same college where this second boy finished with a GPA of well under 3.0. I did find myself wondering if the (first) boy I knew felt all the added stress was worth it. I don't know because I haven't talked to him. I do know the other (second) boy going there really didn't stress much at all in his classes; I don't think he was in any advanced. Point being that, chances are, if you wind up at an average college, it might not be worth the added stress during the high school years. (This particular second boy with the GPA under 3.0 applied to sixteen colleges and got into most of them, and also got money, etc.) In my DD's college program of choice, they looked at her GPA, but SAT scores were the determining factor of whether she got in or not. We also had a lot of people from her school telling us different things, so it really depended who you talked to whether you got correct info or not. That can be frustrating. I think in high school kids should take classes they enjoy, or will likely need for their intended major if they know what it's likely to be, and don't overdo stress loads to the detriment of everything else. Life is not just about the destination, but the ride, IMO. High school shouldn't be straight work - there's enough time for that later in life. They should make time for volunteerism and something else they're interested in, whatever that is. Those are just as important and satisfying to put on a college application as academics.

 

[Kimberle]

I don't know why we bother sending our kids to HS anymore. They should just go from 8th grade right to collage....

 

[tzolkin]

Not a parent (my kids' high schools did not offer IB), but I graduated with an IB diploma.

For me, it was worth it. I felt that I was more prepared for college than others who did not participate in an IB program. Most of the other kids at my university went to expensive private schools, but I only knew one person freshman year for whom paper writing was so effortless (and she was an IB grad from another state). I felt that the value was in learning to think and write in different ways. Taking a few (or many) AP classes is simply not the same thing. AP does not require philosophy classes, oral exams, creative projects, or extended research papers.

I'm a bit curious about those who mention that IB kids cannot participate in sports or extra-curricular activities. In order to receive the diploma you must complete a certain number of hours (1000?) under the headings of Creativity, Action (sports), and Service. So, the students must be participating in some activities-- if not, they would not be eligible for an IB diploma. Many of my friends played multiple varsity sports. It was not a problem. They just had less free time between sports and studying.

The "busywork" comments are also a bit odd to me as well. If anything, I think IB classes have far less "busywork". Students are treated more like a adults/college students. There were large projects and exams, but almost none of my classes had "homework" like I traditionally think of it. There were readings and assignments given to help you learn the material, but certainly nothing that would qualify to me as "busywork". For example, our math teachers would assign problems for homework, but you only had to complete them for your own practice/benefit. They were not turned in. If you "got it" after one problem, you were done. If you needed to do 10 problems to grasp the material enough to pass the exam, then you did them all.


In my experience, college credit was the same as with AP-- some students used it and some didn't. I did not wind up using any of my credit (although my school was willing to accept my scores) because I wound up doing two majors and needed the 4 years to complete everything anyway. (I was exempt from a few things like the Foreign Language requirement because of my IB scores.) Many of my high school friends were able to graduate a semester or a year early.

In both my college search and more recently for my daughter it seemed as though most schools accepted IB or AP at the same rate (either they took both or none). If you were really concerned about the credit and your child was planning to attend a school that did not take IB credit, I would think there would be an option to take the corresponding AP exams (although you would likely have to pay for them). I know the exams are different, but if you got a 7 on an IB Chemistry exam I would think you could pass the AP Chem test. When I was in HS, we had the option to take both exams for some classes.

The purpose of the IB program is similar to a liberal arts education. It's to show colleges (employers) that you are a well-rounded student. (You must take IB courses/exams in all areas plus complete the other requirements.) I believe there is some benefit to this approach, but others may not. If you're only interested in science and don't care about growing in other areas, then taking as many science AP courses as your school offers may have more value to you. It's really a personal choice.

 

[Hrhpd]

That is basically what some U.S. Universities do. They want you to take THEIR slate of classes, but will find some way to give you credit.

I agree this seems to be a growing trend. Two children going through the same engineering school at a state University. My older one entered school as an incoming sophomore with all his prereqs done. 2nd child, same school, also started with enough credits to be considered a sophomore. However, his credits are being used as electives. Even if someone took the classes in high school with sufficient AP scores, they are still required to take the core prereqs on campus.

Something parents and students should check out. AP/IB credits may transfer, but check to see if they will actually transfer to their major as eligible prereqs or if the student will need to retake anything needed as a prereq on campus.

That is the reason everyone I know only see AP/IB classes as perks on a transcript, meant only to open doors to schools and scholarship money, not as earning early college credits. Everyone is pretty much resigned to retaking any AP classes at the university.

 

[tzolkin]

About extracurriculars: at least at our school, the IB students have to participate in some kind of organized physical activity, arts, and volunteering or involvement in school organizations in order to complete the Creativity-Action-Service requirement. My DD did allstar cheer, rode at a stable once a week, and volunteered with an animal welfare group while doing the IB.

Their advisors did kind of discourage them from trying to hold down a part-time job of more than a few hours a week. I think it was a little elitist in that way: kids who actually need the money from a part-time job are not able to do the IB. Wish they could be more accommodating, maybe by allowing students an extra year to complete the program.

The CAS hours are a requirement of IB (not just your school) so that's why I was curious about some posting that the kids can't play sports or do any extra-curriculars (since it's mandatory for the diploma).

As for the jobs, do they just "discourage" working or truly not allow it? At my school, the teachers and administrators assumed it would be too difficult to work and complete the schooling plus CAS hours, but several of us worked anyway and did fine. I was also "discouraged" from having a baby when I found out I was pregnant junior year, but I managed to do that and graduate near the top of my class as well.

 

[gwynne]

One of mine did IB, the other AP. Due to a move, different high schools. Both completed their undergrad degrees in 3 years and a summer semester. Was it worth it to them? They both say yes. They avoided most of the freshman "monster" classes and started into subjects that interested them quickly.
The other reason they were happy was that they were well prepared for college. They both knew kids (from their high schools) who left after the first and second semester who needed remediation at the local community college. They were glad they were ready.

I wanted to add they were both active in extra curricular activities. Most of their friends in the IB or AP programs were as well. Not sure where the idea began that there isn't time. There is.

 

[DawnM]

Thanks for all your input. We have time to decide and go in and talk to the counselor.

Honestly, I am leaning towards just letting him do some AP classes and enjoy being a teen.

 

[JimMIA]

I have seen two common threads here, and I think they are both correct:

• Every school system has different programs and IB in one may not be anything like IB in another.
• It's great for some kids, not so much for others...even very bright kids.

Here's my experience in Miami.

I have one granddaughter who graduated IB, loved it, and went to college (Florida State -- a very good school, very tough admissions standards) with almost two full years of college credits. It was fantastic for her and she's kicking butt at FSU.

Her sister chose not to go IB, went to the same very good high school, and will graduate this year with excellent grades and a great experience for her. Also a super-bright young lady -- just not interested in IB.

My youngest daughter has two "Ice Sisters" (figure skating divas) who are currently getting ready to enter their Junior years in the same IB program my granddaughter attended. These are both serious competitive figure skaters who spend at least 20 hours a week (probably more like 30 in one case) in intense training. They are in the same program as my granddaughter, and it is VERY intense. REALLY a lot of work, although I can't say it's busy work because it really doesn't seem like that. If you want to look at this program, Google Coral Reef Senior High School IB Program.

My own daughter (National Jr. Honor Society throughout, Magna Cum Laude graduate) starts high school this year. She turned down that same IB program and is going to a different school with a very strong Biomedical Research magnet program. (Google TERRA Environmental Research Institute) Many of the students at her school actually do their senior year as high school in the morning and in college classes in the afternoon.

I should also add that she, and many of her classmates, are moving to outstanding public schools from mediocre Catholic schools because they wanted a better education. That's quite a turnaround from a few years ago.

One of the young men at the skating rink is in a very intense public schools Cambridge program, which is not IB, but is also very rigorous.

So I go back to what I said above -- different school systems have different programs, and what applies in one city may be vastly different from another city, and it also depends greatly on the kid.

A couple of years ago, we attended a US Figure Skating camp that has a parallel track for parents. Just so you know, figure skating parents can be some of the most intense, obsessive, stone-cold-crazy parents on the planet. In the parents classes, there was a block moderated by the moms of Merle Davis and Charlie White -- the 2014 Olympic Gold Medalists.

At one point, Charlie's mom shared a startling truth: "You are NOT raising a figure skater. You are raising your child!"

I think it's well that we all remember that concept. This is not about us. This is about what is best for the young person we love so much.

 

[tvguy]

I agree this seems to be a growing trend. Two children going through the same engineering school at a state University. My older one entered school as an incoming sophomore with all his prereqs done. 2nd child, same school, also started with enough credits to be considered a sophomore. However, his credits are being used as electives. Even if someone took the classes in high school with sufficient AP scores, they are still required to take the core prereqs on campus.

Something parents and students should check out. AP/IB credits may transfer, but check to see if they will actually transfer to their major as eligible prereqs or if the student will need to retake anything needed as a prereq on campus.

That is the reason everyone I know only see AP/IB classes as perks on a transcript, meant only to open doors to schools and scholarship money, not as earning early college credits. Everyone is pretty much resigned to retaking any AP classes at the university.

I don't think students should chose IB or AP based on the potential credit in college anyway. They should chose those classes because it shows they took more challenging courses in High School.

 

[gwynne]

I don't think students should chose IB or AP based on the potential credit in college anyway. They should chose those classes because it shows they took more challenging courses in High School.

Mine liked the classes because they had interesting teachers and small class sizes.

 

[RangerPooh]

Here's my take as having worked as an Academic Advisor for two large public universities.

If your child is considering the program do it. Is it better than the AP program, I don't know, but have noticed that the equivalent options are fewer in comparison. This said, be sure to take the exams at the end. Every year I see incoming freshman who took the classes but bever took the AP or IB exams. You don't receive college credit at that point.

Now to receive college credit you do have to receive specific scores. The institution that your child plans to attend should have this posted on their website. If you can't find it, contact the central advising office to be pointed in that direction. Credit can be granted as general elective (for not getting the required score) to specific classes.

I don't see students coming with IB credit as often as I do AP credit, but I think it ultimately depends on what the school/district offers.

 

[JimMIA]

Not a parent (my kids' high schools did not offer IB), but I graduated with an IB diploma.

For me, it was worth it. I felt that I was more prepared for college than others who did not participate in an IB program. Most of the other kids at my university went to expensive private schools, but I only knew one person freshman year for whom paper writing was so effortless (and she was an IB grad from another state). I felt that the value was in learning to think and write in different ways. Taking a few (or many) AP classes is simply not the same thing. AP does not require philosophy classes, oral exams, creative projects, or extended research papers.

I'm a bit curious about those who mention that IB kids cannot participate in sports or extra-curricular activities. In order to receive the diploma you must complete a certain number of hours (1000?) under the headings of Creativity, Action (sports), and Service. So, the students must be participating in some activities-- if not, they would not be eligible for an IB diploma. Many of my friends played multiple varsity sports. It was not a problem. They just had less free time between sports and studying.

The "busywork" comments are also a bit odd to me as well. If anything, I think IB classes have far less "busywork". Students are treated more like a adults/college students. There were large projects and exams, but almost none of my classes had "homework" like I traditionally think of it. There were readings and assignments given to help you learn the material, but certainly nothing that would qualify to me as "busywork". For example, our math teachers would assign problems for homework, but you only had to complete them for your own practice/benefit. They were not turned in. If you "got it" after one problem, you were done. If you needed to do 10 problems to grasp the material enough to pass the exam, then you did them all.


In my experience, college credit was the same as with AP-- some students used it and some didn't. I did not wind up using any of my credit (although my school was willing to accept my scores) because I wound up doing two majors and needed the 4 years to complete everything anyway. (I was exempt from a few things like the Foreign Language requirement because of my IB scores.) Many of my high school friends were able to graduate a semester or a year early.

In both my college search and more recently for my daughter it seemed as though most schools accepted IB or AP at the same rate (either they took both or none). If you were really concerned about the credit and your child was planning to attend a school that did not take IB credit, I would think there would be an option to take the corresponding AP exams (although you would likely have to pay for them). I know the exams are different, but if you got a 7 on an IB Chemistry exam I would think you could pass the AP Chem test. When I was in HS, we had the option to take both exams for some classes.

The purpose of the IB program is similar to a liberal arts education. It's to show colleges (employers) that you are a well-rounded student. (You must take IB courses/exams in all areas plus complete the other requirements.) I believe there is some benefit to this approach, but others may not. If you're only interested in science and don't care about growing in other areas, then taking as many science AP courses as your school offers may have more value to you. It's really a personal choice.

Great post, because it talks about what IB was like for one particular student.

They found it very rewarding -- not in a quarter-hours, AP credit way, but in a human way -- "...I felt I was more prepared for college..." And they were talking about skills and confidence...not credits.

 

[JimMIA]

Every year I see incoming freshman who took the classes but never took the AP or IB exams.

If I were in Admissions, that would tell me more than anything else on that student's transcript...and it wouldn't be helpful to the applicant.

That makes me wonder if the applicant will follow through enough to graduate from my school. And if not, why should I even consider admitting them?

 

[cvjw]

My oldest son went to a Magnet high school, not an IB school. Our district offered multiple Magnet programs, but only one IB program - in an area he wasn't interested in. He was admitted to a Math, Science and Technology magnet school. You had to apply and once accepted, you followed their curriculum, which consisted of Magnet classes and AP classes. When you graduated, you were awarded a Magnet degree. Most kids who graduated from this magnet school had taken 10-16 different AP classes.

I will tell you my take on what he went thru. He was a very smart, hard-working kid, but was no match for some of the magnet kids. They were freaky smart - like making 100's on AP calculus tests without opening a book. That was the kid that this program was meant for. My kid studied like nobody's business, had multiple tutors, totally stressed himself out and made lots of B's. And was miserable.

We finally decided it wasn't for him and dropped him out of the magnet program. He stayed at the same high school and just took AP classes in areas where he was gifted and did a dual enrollment program his senior year. He was so much happier.

He was accepted into UGA - one of the top choices here in Georgia because tuition is free for if qualifying graduates who stay in state. He was one of only around 35 kids out of his graduating Magnet class of 550 who were accepted. He went in with 42 total hours already completed between AP and dual enrollment credits.

All of his AP and dual enrollment credits counted. He will finish an undergraduate Accounting degree and a Masters degree in 4 years thanks to all the early credit he received.

Lots of kids in his magnet program could not get into UGA because their GPA's were too low because of all the super hard magnet classes and required AP classes in areas they weren't good in. I think lots would have if they had not gone the magnet route and just took AP classes in their strength areas - their GPA's would have been much higher when they graduated.

The Magnet degree did not help you get into college if your GPA was too low from all the hard magnet/AP classes that were required. Just my 2 cents

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't think students should chose IB or AP based on the potential credit in college anyway. They should chose those classes because it shows they took more challenging courses in High School.

Many colleges, though, don't seem to care much if they took more challenging courses in high school.

 

[tcufrog]

Before I became a SAHM I was a college librarian. As a college librarian I encountered many visiting high school students and often would discuss with them what they were doing to prepare for college. When it came to AP and IB I recommended first checking with the local university what they will and won't accept. That means finding out:

• what scores they will accept
• how many AP classes they will accept
• and what they will count towards.

Your student should also ask:

• how many credits have to be taken at the university campus
• do study abroad/internship credits count as on campus credits (Note: some schools distinguish between internships/study abroad offered through the university and those that aren't)
• how many major credits have to be on campus
• and how many credits at the end of the junior/senior year have to be on campus credits. Some schools require that your last x # of credits be on campus.

The reason why I mention that is because your may assume that because your child has earned 18 AP hours that his college is counting that he or she can then graduate in 3 1/2 years, thus saving you lots of money. If your child though wishes to do a program at another college, an internship and/or study abroad though, he or she may not meet the on campus credit requirement for core classes and/or their major. One way the extra credits could come in handy though is making it possible for your child to complete a double major or major and minor in less time than it normally takes. Be on the lookout for overlapping majors and minors. My dh was an engineering major who ended up also getting a math major and physics minor because he didn't have to take very many extra classes to get the extra major and minor.

After checking with the Admissions department I then recommended your child contacting the department for the major you child has chosen and have your child ask if he or she could get in contact with an academic adviser for her major via phone or email. I highly recommend your child calling because it shows that your child is mature enough to take charge of his or her educational future. Your child should ask the adviser what classes he or she recommends she take to be prepared for classes in that major. The student should also ask if AP/IB are adequate substitutes for intro classes in that major.

Many moons ago when I was in high school IB wasn't offered where I lived. AP was the only game in town. I graduated with 12 AP credit hours. I was a history and religion double major who ended up graduating in 4 years without taking more than 15 credit hours at a time or going to summer school. That was extremely rare at my university. It was because I was disciplined about what I took and I had those 12 credit hours. I had an advantage the second semester of my freshman year because the registrar computer system considered me a sophomore. That meant I registered before my fellow freshman. I skipped the first semesters of Intro to European history and Intro to US History. I felt well prepared and found the classes to be fairly easy after taking the AP versions. I even recycled some content from AP history papers.

My friends who were in programs like engineering and premed though chose to retake the intro classes. They were concerned that the content would be different from what they learned in AP classes, wanted to get to know the professors, wanted to get in on the ground floor of major study groups that were forming, and were hoping that the classes would be GPA boosters.