High School parents,please explain the IB program to me

[DawnM]

I can read WHAT it is, but I really have some questions:

1. How much extra work is it than taking just AP and honors classes?

2. Is it worth the extra effort? Why?

3. Do college recognize it? I have heard conflicting reports on that.

4. Would you encourage your child to do it?


FYI: My son is transferring to a high school with an IB program. The counselor has mentioned that he should be in the IB program. However, I talked to a neighbor whose son goes to the school and was adamantly opposed to joining because she said it is a lot of busy work, colleges don't really care, and she wanted her kid to have time be a kid.

All of her reasons are valid, but I don't know enough about the IB program to even make a decision.

 

[diznygirl]

I can read WHAT it is, but I really have some questions:

1. How much extra work is it than taking just AP and honors classes?

2. Is it worth the extra effort? Why?

3. Do college recognize it? I have heard conflicting reports on that.

4. Would you encourage your child to do it?


FYI: My son is transferring to a high school with an IB program. The counselor has mentioned that he should be in the IB program. However, I talked to a neighbor whose son goes to the school and was adamantly opposed to joining because she said it is a lot of busy work, colleges don't really care, and she wanted her kid to have time be a kid.

All of her reasons are valid, but I don't know enough about the IB program to even make a decision.

1. It was the same AP classes. He's dropping out of IB for next year, but will still be in classes with IB kids.

2. Depends on what your kid wants to do. Mine wants to be in animation so totally not worth it. He wouldn't be able to take the art electives in the IB program.

3. Not sure.

4. We did encourage him to give it a try, but realized the strictness of the classes required made it impossible to take the electives he wanted to take. And for his potential major he needed those electives.

There are a lot of other requirements to it as well like attendance, community service hours higher than regular, and minimum grade requirements to stay in the program. Having gone through this I'm with your neighbor- it just wasn't worth the extra headaches for us.

 

[THEDISNEYTHREE]

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[Hrhpd]

I can read WHAT it is, but I really have some questions:

1. How much extra work is it than taking just AP and honors classes?

2. Is it worth the extra effort? Why?

3. Do college recognize it? I have heard conflicting reports on that.

4. Would you encourage your child to do it?


FYI: My son is transferring to a high school with an IB program. The counselor has mentioned that he should be in the IB program. However, I talked to a neighbor whose son goes to the school and was adamantly opposed to joining because she said it is a lot of busy work, colleges don't really care, and she wanted her kid to have time be a kid.

All of her reasons are valid, but I don't know enough about the IB program to even make a decision.

In our district, in the two schools that offer the IB program it is a ton of work.

We explored it for one of our children who is the typical DIS gifted child. At the parent meeting, the student representatives all said that they had to give up their sports and extracurriculars to meet the demands of the program. They are all good and very smart kids who loved the program but did say that the only downfall was that they did have to either severely limit or eliminate their extracurriculars.

We have friends that work in several universities and they all told us that the students that come in from the IB programs have a higher percentage of socially stunted members since they just spent 4 years solely focusing on academics with no social life. They tended to be the ones who let go the most freshman year since they could see sunlight again.

Not trying to broad brush the entire IB program students, but it is a tough curriculum. It is a wonderful program (otherwise we would not have explored it,) but, at least in our district, it takes a very specific student to be successful. They have to be great in every discipline; math, science, la, history, etc. If someone is weaker in one subject, that is where the massive hours of studying comes in. It is not like choosing AP classes in your strongest subjects. The whole curriculum is extremely tough. You have to be all in with all subjects. With AP, you have a bit more flexibility in tailoring your AP and Honors classes to your strengths.

In our schools, it is a completely separate program. You cannot take IB classes if you are not in the IB programs. However, our school teaches the material so that the IB students can successfully take the AP tests and get dual credits. That way if a college does not accept one or the other, they have both to offer on their transcripts for admittance consideration.

If IB is something your child wants to explore and doesn't want the rigorous demands of the IB diploma, check to see if your school offers a program similar to one in our district. One of our schools offers IB certificates. You can take IB tracks without having to commit to the entire program. This allows students who may not be as proficient in LA but great in Math and Science take the Math and Science IB curriculum, but not have to struggle in the LA IB curriculum. Downfall is that you don't get the IB diploma to transfer. But the certificates still look good on the transcripts which is all anyone I know actually cared about.

Although it was my child's #1 choice, because he had a sport that he was involved in year round both in and out of school, he ultimately changed his mind and chose the high school that offered a ton of AP classes and a partnership with the University he wanted to attend.

Everyone I know never really cared if the University would actually accept AP and IB credit as credits to shorten their stay at the University. It was simply another thing on their transcripts to help them get into a certain University and help them secure academic scholarships. Depending on the major, most students planned to retake the classes on campus anyway.

 

[DawnM]

Thanks guys. This is giving me a better picture.

This may not be the right program for him.

He is starting to look at engineering for his future, but that isn't really set in stone. He is just really good at math. He is good in other subjects, but his math is where he really shines.

But he wants to be in drama, even if it is behind the scenes, he just loves drama and theater. Sounds like he can't spend the hours and hours helping the performances if he is also doing IB.

Although I have to be honest, I hate that the big plays are always in the Spring, right when they need to take testing! I don't get it.

 

[cmarsh31]

Different perspective - I am an IB-trained teacher (it was what I did pre-kids, I've been home for 7 years but still subbing in the IB & AP classes). Very, very rigorous but our kids definitely do sports/extracurriculars (including drama) without an issue - I think that depends on the structure of the program. Out of the 2400 students in the very urban/low-performing HS, there are probably 15-20 IB diploma kids each year and it turns into a very close-knit group. As a parent (we don't have it where my kids go to school), I would encourage my son to try the classes and see if it was something he was interested in (he's very very strong in math - shockingly I'm a math teacher , the same as AP classes.

 

[diznygirl]

Thanks guys. This is giving me a better picture.

This may not be the right program for him.

He is starting to look at engineering for his future, but that isn't really set in stone. He is just really good at math. He is good in other subjects, but his math is where he really shines.

But he wants to be in drama, even if it is behind the scenes, he just loves drama and theater. Sounds like he can't spend the hours and hours helping the performances if he is also doing IB.

Although I have to be honest, I hate that the big plays are always in the Spring, right when they need to take testing! I don't get it.

He would be able to do the drama, and yes there are IB students who do sports. It doesn't effect whether you can do the after-school stuff, just whether you have room in your class schedule for drama class.


My son does band. IB required four years of a language. So with band and language he has no room for art. So he dropped IB.

Of course, after-school stuff does take time out from homework time. But that will depend on your kid and hard the class is, etc.

I agree with what a previous poster said about tailoring classes to strengths. My son is good at math but not science. Algebra is an easy A but AP chemistry kicked butt. Out of the IB program he will satisfy the science class requirement with Natural Science instead of Physics - thank goodness.

 

[PlutoPony]

We looked at the program for our son but ultimately decided against it because it was held at a high school my son really didn't want to attend. The program sounded like it was excellent prep for college - for the right student. Around here it's not a given that you have to give up sports and extra curricular activities.

As far as how colleges view it, around here they like it and accept the credits. One issue I see is if you're trying to get into a competitive university/program (like engineering) the schools want to see you've taken the highest level classes available at your school. So if your school offers IB, you didn't take it and are in "regular" classes that could be viewed as a point against you in this area. IF you could take a few IB classes but not be in the program, that would be good, you can show how you handle the toughest classes at your HS. I am not against "regular" classes at all, just conveying how it would be viewed by colleges in our area. YMMV of course.

 

[aprilchem]

College professor here - if you're interested in IB check and make sure your likely college choices accept the credit. My college accepts dual-enrollment and AP but NOT IB for credit.

 

[Hrhpd]

Different perspective - I am an IB-trained teacher (it was what I did pre-kids, I've been home for 7 years but still subbing in the IB & AP classes). Very, very rigorous but our kids definitely do sports/extracurriculars (including drama) without an issue - I think that depends on the structure of the program. Out of the 2400 students in the very urban/low-performing HS, there are probably 15-20 IB diploma kids each year and it turns into a very close-knit group. As a parent (we don't have it where my kids go to school), I would encourage my son to try the classes and see if it was something he was interested in (he's very very strong in math - shockingly I'm a math teacher , the same as AP classes.

I was coming back to add that everyone should investigate their programs at their schools. Even though one of the strengths of IB is supposed to be unity across the globe, it seems each program is run a bit differently.

The IB program in our district is in the highest achieving school in an already high achieving area. The IB program has been shaped by the Uber Achieving Parents who want even more intense academics than the already rigorous regular high school curriculum in this school. Thus, in our school, it is virtually impossible to do any kind of extracurriculars while involved in the IB program.

One part of our parent meeting was a question and answer with current students. The other focus of this school is that they have a nationally recognized theater program. One parent asked if students could easily integrate the two. The students said it would be very difficult if not impossible. Another parent asked about sports. A few former Varsity players said they had to give up their sports to keep up.

Check your school and visit their program. Ours, it is extremely difficult to do any kind of extra curriculars. Other schools may have more flexibility in their programs. It was not a good fit for our child even though we loved, loved the program.

 

[Hrhpd]

College professor here - if you're interested in IB check and make sure your likely college choices accept the credit. My college accepts dual-enrollment and AP but NOT IB for credit.

When we were first exploring the program, we could go to the IBrg homepage and bring up a long list of exclusive universities who accepted IB credit. I just went there to look at the colleges now and you cannot even pull up a list. It tells you to contact the IB office in Bethesda to see which Universities accept the credit. It makes me wonder if there are fewer and fewer universities that are accepting the IB diploma. Otherwise why wouldn't the IBO want to publicly brag that these prestigious universities accept their diploma?

It was a huge fad when my child was in high school, but with my younger children, I don't hear parents talk about it as much.

 

[clori]

Our public high school only has AP. However we have a public charter high school in the city with an IB program. I know one boy who graduated and didn't do any extra curricular beyond tutoring and helping out at religious school. I also know one girl who graduated and was very very active in city wide girl scouts and theater plus some other activiites. In both cases they are both excellent students. The boy isn't the most social but wouldn't be even if he took all easy classes. The boy was a math geek with very high SAT scores (his mother told me 800 on both) but he got rejected from MIT. The girl got into colleges but even being low income didn't get enough financial aid and is currently taking community college classes. She says the work is too easy and is amazed at what others find hard.

Colleges make their own decisions on acceptance of AP, dual enrollment, and IB credits. It varies from no credit, full credit, or just starting at a different level but still needing a credit for that criteria. I've called several colleges regarding dual enrollment and many mentioned that they treat AP, IB, and dual enrollment to be identical as long as students get the required grades/test scores. Some will not accept any if they are used to meet high school graduation requirements. For instance Boston University said that if dd is taking say Freshman Composition 1 and 2 in place of junior and senior high school English (College prep, honors, AP, or IB level) and gets an A in both they will not count as credit for college since they were needed to graduate high school. Some said that IB looks great to get accepted to college but once in college doesn't count as anything. I have found that college admissions offices for most schools will happily talk to high school parents and explain their policies.

 

[HillPete]

My son's school only does IB curriculum (small, private school). The students have the option of attempting an entire IB diploma, a few certifications in the areas of their choice, or no IB certification at all. They all take the IB classes no matter how they choose to spend the end of their senior year. We have explored the websites of colleges he wants to attend and found that IB requirements don't vary too much from school to school. You are only eligible for college credit (similar to AP) if you score a 4 or higher on the exam and did the higher level coursework (as opposed to standard level which is really not much less work). At this point (summer before junior year), my son is planning to do IB certification in Art, Chemistry and French. Math is still on the table, but it may not pan out for him. Varsity soccer is still on the schedule... Wish us luck!

 

[BearFamily]

I have several friends that are IB certified (in either music or visual arts) or teach in districts with IB programs. I also used to teach in a district that was beginning to implement IB, although not in the school building I was in.

I completely agree with the person who said check into it at your school. Like previous posters, I have heard/seen a couple of types of programs.

One is in an urban district with struggling schools, and offers motivated students the opportunity to "click" with a group of similarly minded kids, take highly challenging coursework, AND get an endorsed diploma that would go much further with admissions departments at competitive colleges than if they had just graduated from "X city school district", even with good grades. I know for certain that some of those students participate in intense extracurricular arts programs. I do not know about sports. The classes they took were much better than anything they would have been offered outside the IB program. If my child were in that district, I would highly encourage the IB program if they wanted to attend ANY college.

The others were all the "pushed by uber-competitive parents" type, in suburban districts with lots of resources and high test scores. Those students were rarely able to participate in arts in or outside of the classroom, other than the prescribed IB arts classes. Students could have instead taken high quality honors or AP classes with more flexibility and less intense work loads. My teacher friends in those districts found that as the district promoted the IB program, they lost highly academic students from their bands, choirs and drama programs. They were very unhappy. Again, I know nothing about sports involvement.

One of my friends is an IB certified visual arts teacher who has taught in an IB international school as well as a very ritzy district in the US. He felt like the program at the international school was a good choice for a lot of reasons, including cultural ones (for example, ideas that the school might have chosen not to expose students to if they weren't part of the IB curriculum). At the ritzy US district - he feels like it's unnecessarily rigid and basically just a money grab for the IB organization.

 

[tvguy]

The College Counselors we talked to when our kids were looking at colleges all agreed, if you can get into an IB or AP program, do it. A lot of schools no longer accept the credit, they want you to take their version of the class, but it shows you took the toughest classes you could so it improves your chances of being accepted.. My son did AP and sports, never was an issue.

 

[BearFamily]

The College Counselors we talked to when our kids were looking at colleges all agreed, if you can get into an IB or AP program, do it. A lot of schools no longer accept the credit, they want you to take their version of the class, but it shows you took the toughest classes you could so it improves your chances of being accepted.. My son did AP and sports, never was an issue.

There are huge differences between IB and AP, though. And those differences are part of why lots of people are saying it is not possible in their district to do IB and sports.

As PP have pointed out, you can pick and choose which AP classes you'd like to do based on your interests and your intended career trajectory. If you are going for an IB diploma, you pretty much do the IB classes in EVERY core subject. Including required arts classes, foreign language, etc. A student interested in a career in visual arts who is also strong in humanities but weak in math/science could take AP Studio Art, AP Art History, AP US History, AP English Literature, etc. but just take the math and science classes that were at the appropriate level and appealed to them without stressing themselves out. A student invested in math and science could max out on multiple APs in math and sciences and not necessarily have to take the highly challenging IB arts or literature courses. If those same two students were in an IB program instead, they would be taking virtually the same course load as one another, with little to no ability to either add more intense coursework in areas of interest, or downshift to less intense courses in areas of struggle or lesser interest. So they wind up doing a lot more work outside of class to keep their head above water in those other areas. (This is in my experience. I have a lot of experience with APs, my IB knowledge is all from my various friends teaching in IB schools.)

There are definitely benefits to IB, but it is very different from a kid just taking a lot of AP classes that they pick from the list offered by their school.

The (private) school I teach at now is actually working hard to keep kids from taking too many APs (often battling the uber-competitive parents!) - trying to help them keep balanced lives and keep broad interests. Many of the science teachers also resent the rigidity of the AP curriculum, when they feel covering or focusing on alternative topics within the courses might be better preparation for college/career. We have 100% college placement including some very prestigious colleges, so it must be working.

 

[DawnM]

College professor here - if you're interested in IB check and make sure your likely college choices accept the credit. My college accepts dual-enrollment and AP but NOT IB for credit.

Well, right now he has NO CLUE where he would like to go to college. We are just starting to even talk about it. I am not sure he can get into our flagship Engineering school. He has good grades but not the 4.5 and up the average student in the program has.

He will have other options for states schools in Engineering and he is considering a couple of private schools, but we haven't looked into them enough to even have an opinion on what he wants.

 

[tvguy]

There are huge differences between IB and AP, though. And those differences are part of why lots of people are saying it is not possible in their district to do IB and sports.

As PP have pointed out, you can pick and choose which AP classes you'd like to do based on your interests and your intended career trajectory. If you are going for an IB diploma, you pretty much do the IB classes in EVERY core subject. Including required arts classes, foreign language, etc. A student interested in a career in visual arts who is also strong in humanities but weak in math/science could take AP Studio Art, AP Art History, AP US History, AP English Literature, etc. but just take the math and science classes that were at the appropriate level and appealed to them without stressing themselves out. A student invested in math and science could max out on multiple APs in math and sciences and not necessarily have to take the highly challenging IB arts or literature courses. If those same two students were in an IB program instead, they would be taking virtually the same course load as one another, with little to no ability to either add more intense coursework in areas of interest, or downshift to less intense courses in areas of struggle or lesser interest. So they wind up doing a lot more work outside of class to keep their head above water in those other areas. (This is in my experience. I have a lot of experience with APs, my IB knowledge is all from my various friends teaching in IB schools.)

There are definitely benefits to IB, but it is very different from a kid just taking a lot of AP classes that they pick from the list offered by their school.

The (private) school I teach at now is actually working hard to keep kids from taking too many APs (often battling the uber-competitive parents!) - trying to help them keep balanced lives and keep broad interests. Many of the science teachers also resent the rigidity of the AP curriculum, when they feel covering or focusing on alternative topics within the courses might be better preparation for college/career. We have 100% college placement including some very prestigious colleges, so it must be working.

But only AP classes have the potential of getting college credit, correct?

 

[Hrhpd]

The College Counselors we talked to when our kids were looking at colleges all agreed, if you can get into an IB or AP program, do it. A lot of schools no longer accept the credit, they want you to take their version of the class, but it shows you took the toughest classes you could so it improves your chances of being accepted.. My son did AP and sports, never was an issue.

The difference is that AP is not a program. In IB, you are in it for the IB diploma. AP is a bit more flexible in that you can choose how many and which AP classes you want to take

But only AP classes have the potential of getting college credit, correct?

No, that is incorrect. You can get credit for an IB diploma.

 

[Northstar]

My DD is just finishing her IB diploma.... took her exams in May and graduates next week.

It was excellent preparation for university. The coursework was not busywork at all at her school. It was like university in that they had research and projects and papers to do for their internal assessments and for the big Extended Essay ( a research project culminating in a 4000-word paper). The work was pretty rigorous, but except for about a 6-week period in January and February of senior year, when they had major assignments due in all 6 of their subjects, it was no worse than what I went through about a hundred years ago when I had all AP courses in high school.

About extracurriculars: at least at our school, the IB students have to participate in some kind of organized physical activity, arts, and volunteering or involvement in school organizations in order to complete the Creativity-Action-Service requirement. My DD did allstar cheer, rode at a stable once a week, and volunteered with an animal welfare group while doing the IB.

Their advisors did kind of discourage them from trying to hold down a part-time job of more than a few hours a week. I think it was a little elitist in that way: kids who actually need the money from a part-time job are not able to do the IB. Wish they could be more accommodating, maybe by allowing students an extra year to complete the program.