high school marching band and fall sports?

[Kae]

The one thing about Marching Band is the shows are pretty expensive and might have a year of use clause so if competitions get canceled that's a lot of money that could be lost.

 

[momz]

Our band director sent out an email yesterday concerning band in the classroom. I have very little confidence in this plan, but I expect it won't be an issue as our Governor and Mayor both have press conferences this afternoon. I think the Mayor is going to declare that school must be all online.

Anyway, the director has some rules...what could go wrong:

Students must wear a mask with a hole in it so they can bring the mouthpiece to their mouth.
spit valves: students must empty their spit valves onto a pad on the floor, instead of directly onto the carpet.....
Students will be in a 6X6 space except for trombones who get a 6X9 space.
No sharing of lockers
No hanging out.

Seriously, required to have masks with holes in them.....

 

[monsterkitty]

Our band director sent out an email yesterday concerning band in the classroom. I have very little confidence in this plan, but I expect it won't be an issue as our Governor and Mayor both have press conferences this afternoon. I think the Mayor is going to declare that school must be all online.

Anyway, the director has some rules...what could go wrong:

Students must wear a mask with a hole in it so they can bring the mouthpiece to their mouth.
spit valves: students must empty their spit valves onto a pad on the floor, instead of directly onto the carpet.....
Students will be in a 6X6 space except for trombones who get a 6X9 space.
No sharing of lockers
No hanging out.

Seriously, required to have masks with holes in them.....

These are the guidelines set out in the aerosol study. Every band in the country that is going to play in person is going to follow these guidelines. Watch the videos I posted.

 

[mdsouth]

I watched the various videos. They were interesting to watch. I also saw the Win Definer thing too. Today during practice the flutes put baby socks on the end of their flutes to help. I had already sliced a small slit in the mask for my daughter. There are only six of them in band this year and they were outside. I watched for a bit while they practiced and they were far apart from each other. The band is broken down into sections and the different sections are practicing at different times. Since it is a class I wonder what they will do when they can't practice outside. For our school, I think they could practice in the auditorium and stand in the seats section facing the stage. That way they could spread way out away from each other. The acoustics in there is amazing. The band did this a few times last year when it was raining and they were wanting to practice. Of course, then they stood closer together in the rows. But it is a massive auditorium and would provide lots of room. This is something that could work for my daughter's school. They could just schedule the auditorium each day for their classroom. Of course many schools do not have a separate auditorium to use.

 

[momz]

These are the guidelines set out in the aerosol study. Every band in the country that is going to play in person is going to follow these guidelines. Watch the videos I posted.

This is not good. COVID-19 is extremely contagious. I have patient's all day long with symptoms. We are testing people left and right. Lots of positives. Still more negative than positive, but positives are going up.

I had a patient today who is an ICU nurse. She normally wears hat, goggles, n95 mask, gown, double gloves and shoe covers. Unfortunately, she entered the room ONE TIME without her goggles because the patient summoned her. The patient coughed...she is positive.

I'm serious, playing with a hole in the mask is not in anyone's best interest.

I was commenting on my son's school. I am not too concerned because I'm pretty sure school will be online. But, if this is the plan that is put into action across the country, it's not going to end well.

 

[monsterkitty]

This is not good. COVID-19 is extremely contagious. I have patient's all day long with symptoms. We are testing people left and right. Lots of positives. Still more negative than positive, but positives are going up.

I had a patient today who is an ICU nurse. She normally wears hat, goggles, n95 mask, gown, double gloves and shoe covers. Unfortunately, she entered the room ONE TIME without her goggles because the patient summoned her. The patient coughed...she is positive.

I'm serious, playing with a hole in the mask is not in anyone's best interest.

I was commenting on my son's school. I am not too concerned because I'm pretty sure school will be online. But, if this is the plan that is put into action across the country, it's not going to end well.

I 100% understand your concern. As a retired band teacher I do not feel it is safe to teach band or choir indoors at this time.

Now with the hole in the mask, I should have explained why they have found it safe for all instruments except the flute. When one plays any wind instrument other than flute, 100% of the air is going into that instrument. They found during the studies that using a mask with a hole in it while playing is safe. Other parts of the instruments need to also be covered, such as the bell of the brass instruments or putting a covering over the clarinet or saxophones.

When the students are not playing, they should be wearing a regular mask. The study recommended not letting students talk during rehearsals unless they have a real mask on (like that will happen) and that the directors should use a mic and sound system so they can use a normal speaking voice, instead of the band director talking over 50 kids playing instrument voice.

If the school is taking these precautions then it is as safe as it can be. However, if the school is not taking these precautions, I would definitely pull my child from band.

 

[sam_gordon]

I 100% understand your concern. As a retired band teacher I do not feel it is safe to teach band or choir indoors at this time.

Now with the hole in the mask, I should have explained why they have found it safe for all instruments except the flute. When one plays any wind instrument other than flute, 100% of the air is going into that instrument. They found during the studies that using a mask with a hole in it while playing is safe. Other parts of the instruments need to also be covered, such as the bell of the brass instruments or putting a covering over the clarinet or saxophones.

When the students are not playing, they should be wearing a regular mask. The study recommended not letting students talk during rehearsals unless they have a real mask on (like that will happen) and that the directors should use a mic and sound system so they can use a normal speaking voice, instead of the band director talking over 50 kids playing instrument voice.

If the school is taking these precautions then it is as safe as it can be. However, if the school is not taking these precautions, I would definitely pull my child from band.

I was talking to my mom (not about band), but a cool solution would be to sew a "flap" in the mask. Lift the flap up and you can blow your instrument/take a drink, and then when you're done, the flap goes back down.

 

[mdsouth]

This is not good. COVID-19 is extremely contagious. I have patient's all day long with symptoms. We are testing people left and right. Lots of positives. Still more negative than positive, but positives are going up.

I had a patient today who is an ICU nurse. She normally wears hat, goggles, n95 mask, gown, double gloves and shoe covers. Unfortunately, she entered the room ONE TIME without her goggles because the patient summoned her. The patient coughed...she is positive.

I'm serious, playing with a hole in the mask is not in anyone's best interest.

I was commenting on my son's school. I am not too concerned because I'm pretty sure school will be online. But, if this is the plan that is put into action across the country, it's not going to end well.

Thank you for your feedback based on your profession and what you are seeing. I appreciate it and will give your thoughts serious consideration on what we will do moving forward.

I was talking to my mom (not about band), but a cool solution would be to sew a "flap" in the mask. Lift the flap up and you can blow your instrument/take a drink, and then when you're done, the flap goes back down.

This might work. I can see the need for a the flap to have a velcro tab so it can stay up when needed. I think the mask used along with a clear face shield might be more effective than just a mask alone.

 

[NotUrsula]

This is not good. COVID-19 is extremely contagious. I have patient's all day long with symptoms. We are testing people left and right. Lots of positives. Still more negative than positive, but positives are going up.

I had a patient today who is an ICU nurse. She normally wears hat, goggles, n95 mask, gown, double gloves and shoe covers. Unfortunately, she entered the room ONE TIME without her goggles because the patient summoned her. The patient coughed...she is positive.

I'm serious, playing with a hole in the mask is not in anyone's best interest.

I was commenting on my son's school. I am not too concerned because I'm pretty sure school will be online. But, if this is the plan that is put into action across the country, it's not going to end well.

It's not really a hole, exactly; it's an overlap with tension. The recommended mask is a stretch model, with an overlap of about 2 inches in the center. The overlap is made essentially the same way that a nursing top is, so that it falls back shut whenever the object placed through the center is removed. Certainly it isn't perfect, but the part directly in front of the mouth is 4 layers when not actively in use. Coupled with a bell cover (or a bag for some instruments), it should be fairly effective as long as all other protocols are followed. EDITED TO ADD LINK TO RECOMMENDED MASK PATTERN: http://www.unitedsound.org/s/Mask-Pattern-Flat.pdf

Measures like these won't eliminate transmission, but my understanding is that the actual goal is to reduce the transmission rate to somewhere in the ballpark of the flu's normal level of transfer, the risk of which we already accept in a school setting most of the time.

The NYTimes published a nice overview with links to research a couple of weeks ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
The main key is that schools have to really commit to managing as many of the other factors as possible, and health departments have to exercise their right to close schools when positivity rates remain high.

 

[momz]

It's not really a hole, exactly; it's an overlap with tension. The recommended mask is a stretch model, with an overlap of about 2 inches in the center. The overlap is made essentially the same way that a nursing top is, so that it falls back shut whenever the object placed through the center is removed. Certainly it isn't perfect, but the part directly in front of the mouth is 4 layers when not actively in use. Coupled with a bell cover (or a bag for some instruments), it should be fairly effective as long as all other protocols are followed.

Measures like these won't eliminate transmission, but my understanding is that the actual goal is to reduce the transmission rate to somewhere in the ballpark of the flu's normal level of transfer, the risk of which we already accept in a school setting most of the time.

The NYTimes published a nice overview with links to research a couple of weeks ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
The main key is that schools have to really commit to managing as many of the other factors as possible, and health departments have to exercise their right to close schools when positivity rates remain high.

Yes, I can see compliance being a major factor in these measures working.

Unfortunately, the mask you are describing is not what our band director is referring to. Also, he is not requiring bell covers or bags for the instruments.

His exact words are "students are encouraged to wear a mask with a slit in it or a face shield". That's it. no further guidance regarding the mask.

Regarding face shields, for short duration interaction i think this is fine. But, the air in the face shield is constantly mixing with the room air. So, now that COVID has been determined to be airborne, a face shield for any length of time is not going to protect you and it certainly is not going to protect others from your germs.

I can see the bell cover and instrument covers perhaps being a viable solution, as the player's breath coming through those ports of exit will contain aerosolized microbes.

I appreciate the links to studies. I am concerned and it's good to know that this is being taken seriously be somebody

 

[monsterkitty]

Yes, I can see compliance being a major factor in these measures working.

Unfortunately, the mask you are describing is not what our band director is referring to. Also, he is not requiring bell covers or bags for the instruments.

His exact words are "students are encouraged to wear a mask with a slit in it or a face shield". That's it. no further guidance regarding the mask.

Regarding face shields, for short duration interaction i think this is fine. But, the air in the face shield is constantly mixing with the room air. So, now that COVID has been determined to be airborne, a face shield for any length of time is not going to protect you and it certainly is not going to protect others from your germs.

I can see the bell cover and instrument covers perhaps being a viable solution, as the player's breath coming through those ports of exit will contain aerosolized microbes.

I appreciate the links to studies. I am concerned and it's good to know that this is being taken seriously be somebody

I agree with you, the face shield will do nothing without a mask. If it was a normal class and short interaction the shield would probably be good enough. However, the amount of force you use when playing a wind instrument a face shield will not cut it.

When we are sent the rest of the study I will let you know what it says.

 

[NotUrsula]

Yes, I can see compliance being a major factor in these measures working.

Unfortunately, the mask you are describing is not what our band director is referring to. Also, he is not requiring bell covers or bags for the instruments.

His exact words are "students are encouraged to wear a mask with a slit in it or a face shield". That's it. no further guidance regarding the mask.

Regarding face shields, for short duration interaction i think this is fine. But, the air in the face shield is constantly mixing with the room air. So, now that COVID has been determined to be airborne, a face shield for any length of time is not going to protect you and it certainly is not going to protect others from your germs.

I can see the bell cover and instrument covers perhaps being a viable solution, as the player's breath coming through those ports of exit will contain aerosolized microbes.

I appreciate the links to studies. I am concerned and it's good to know that this is being taken seriously be somebody

I've edited my above post to include a link to the pattern for the recommended overlap stretch face mask. It would probably be a good idea to go to your band boosters to see if they can arrange to have them made and provided for music students. Our boosters will be paying to have them made for our band students (the travel money won't be used this year, and getting the masks made by volunteer labor with purchased fabric won't use all that much of the money.)

The same website also has links for patterns for instrument bags and bell covers, though affordable plain bell covers are already available commercially (lots of marching bands have them made with logos added; they are really common on tubas, but much less so for the smaller horns.)

 

[momz]

Help me out! The band director is now saying that kids must put pantyhose covers on their instruments. I cannot find a study for this. The only thing I can find is a study that says to put a pantyhose wrap on the outside of your mask to make it fit tighter. Then I see articles that screwed up that recommendation by publishing pictures of people wearing the pantyhose inside the mask which doesn’t have the same affect.

it also says nothing about a single layer of pantyhose on a musical instrument. Plus, this study was from April. And I can’t find anything that I have faith in on this.

I am very skeptical of pantyhose being the solution. I could be wrong. But this iabout children. My gut says this is all theater and not legit science.

help me out with your thoughts and share what you can find about this. Please, school starts tomorrow.

 

[mdsouth]

Help me out! The band director is now saying that kids must put pantyhose covers on their instruments. I cannot find a study for this. The only thing I can find is a study that says to put a pantyhose wrap on the outside of your mask to make it fit tighter. Then I see articles that screwed up that recommendation by publishing pictures of people wearing the pantyhose inside the mask which doesn’t have the same affect.

it also says nothing about a single layer of pantyhose on a musical instrument. Plus, this study was from April. And I can’t find anything that I have faith in on this.

I am very skeptical of pantyhose being the solution. I could be wrong. But this iabout children. My gut says this is all theater and not legit science.

help me out with your thoughts and share what you can find about this. Please, school starts tomorrow.

I do not know about the pantyhose thing but I expect the director is trying to use that as a cover for the wind instruments. Go back through this thread and share the pattern/link to the bell thing that goes on the end of most of the instruments. There are lots of videos about the use of the bell cover that you can share with the director and they are made of fabric like a face mask so they would be better than just pantyhose. For the flutes, there is not a lot to go with, but the flutes in my daughter's band put baby socks at the end of the flute and are trying to play with shields, etc.

 

[momz]

I do not know about the pantyhose thing but I expect the director is trying to use that as a cover for the wind instruments. Go back through this thread and share the pattern/link to the bell thing that goes on the end of most of the instruments. There are lots of videos about the use of the bell cover that you can share with the director and they are made of fabric like a face mask so they would be better than just pantyhose. For the flutes, there is not a lot to go with, but the flutes in my daughter's band put baby socks at the end of the flute and are trying to play with shields, etc.

these are good suggestions. I have also requested that my child sit out on the days that band cannot be outside. The band room is going to become a hot spot in short order. But, I also expect school to be online only in short order too.

Today is actually the first day of school...but it’s an online day for all students. Tomorrow starts hybrid. My son doesn’t attend until Friday. It could all change by then.

 

[monsterkitty]

these are good suggestions. I have also requested that my child sit out on the days that band cannot be outside. The band room is going to become a hot spot in short order. But, I also expect school to be online only in short order too.

Today is actually the first day of school...but it’s an online day for all students. Tomorrow starts hybrid. My son doesn’t attend until Friday. It could all change by then.

A portion of the aerosol study was released to directors on Monday. In 15 minutes the band and choir rooms are full of aerosol particles. Many schools have since said that students can only play inside for 15 minutes even with any type of cover.

If I were still teaching this year, my kids would NOT be playing. Yes it would suck, but the ventilation in the room and probably 90% of the schools in our country, is horrible. It's not worth the risk.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

Help me out! The band director is now saying that kids must put pantyhose covers on their instruments. I cannot find a study for this. The only thing I can find is a study that says to put a pantyhose wrap on the outside of your mask to make it fit tighter. Then I see articles that screwed up that recommendation by publishing pictures of people wearing the pantyhose inside the mask which doesn’t have the same affect.

it also says nothing about a single layer of pantyhose on a musical instrument. Plus, this study was from April. And I can’t find anything that I have faith in on this.

I am very skeptical of pantyhose being the solution. I could be wrong. But this iabout children. My gut says this is all theater and not legit science.

help me out with your thoughts and share what you can find about this. Please, school starts tomorrow.

I had a link a couple pages back to a Facebook video (search for college marching on Facebook) - Clemson did a lab study with different fabrics to contain aerosols. They found the most effective was 2 layers of pantyhose. This brought the aerosol down to a "safe" level during lab tests.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

After the speculation swirling around today that the Big10 would cancel football season, we had a previously scheduled parent meeting with the band director. I thought for sure we would hear, "Sorry folks, we tried." But no, college band is marching on!! I thought I would be nervous, but I was satisfied with their safety plan that was approved by the Governor's office.

Edited to add - any student who wants to sit out the season is guaranteed a spot in the band and does not have to reaudition. No harm, no foul.

 

[NotUrsula]

A home sewist will really not be able to handle making covers out of pantyhose; it runs when cut and pulled on, which would be necessary to get it through a machine. You *could* try using queen-sized knee highs over the smaller horn bells; they are a bit larger around than regular ones, so a bit less likely to tear when you try to stretch them over the bell. I have a feeling that small snags will cause them to run easily, and that will create large holes. I suspect a better working solution would be two layers of raschel spandex tricot. You can buy that by the yard from a fabric store, but I suggest ordering the yardage wholesale so as to have plenty for multiple covers to wash.

 

[soccerdad72]

Ohio's Governor has just lifted the ban on contact sports, giving fall sports (including marching band) the go ahead to start the season on time.

Football is doing a modified season, shortening the regular season to 6 games (down from 10) and having all teams in the playoffs. Only home marching bands are permitted and attendance is going to be limited to family, essentially (those details haven't been fully clarified yet).

Now, we all hold our breathe (literally and figuratively) in hopes that the season goes off without issues.