High School:Good Grades vs. Challenging Classes

[agnes!]

Well, it may depend on what state you're in and what schools you are applying to. In CA, for the Cal State stystem, honors/AP course are meaningless.....it;s all staright GPA. However, we have been told (and it seems true, based on acceptances) that kids from our Catholic High School do well being accepted at private schools, where they will look at what school you come from and what classes you take. My son has had some honors course, and gotten B's-he would have been better of with regular colege prep, and getting A's.

DD has applied to high schools and will be taking the challenge exams in about 8 weeks. We have already decided, if she is accepted into Spanish II honors, she won't take it (only will do Spanish II) and that she will do the same with Geometry (won't take honors). She'll just do honors English, Science and history. She's a good student, but I think taking all honors courses is too much, and won't benefit you enough.

Julia

But many school systems give AP classes more weight. If you pull a B+ in an AP class here, it is worth more than an A in a regular class. If you have two kids and they both get Bs in their class, one has AP and one does not, the AP kid will have a higher average. But I agree that AP classes aren't for everybody - the workload can be insane.

We hardly have Honors classes here anymore, the system is going to AP or Pre-AP, but have done away with the 'Honors' designation for the most part.

agnes!

 

[Julia M]

But many school systems give AP classes more weight. If you pull a B+ in an AP class here, it is worth more than an A in a regular class. If you have two kids and they both get Bs in their class, one has AP and one does not, the AP kid will have a higher average. But I agree that AP classes aren't for everybody - the workload can be insane.

We hardly have Honors classes here anymore, the system is going to AP or Pre-AP, but have done away with the 'Honors' designation for the most part.

agnes!

Yes, many systems do, which I said. However, the Cal State system does not. In the UC system, you can only count up to 8 semesters (4 year long classes) of a honors of AP class for an extra grade point.

So, in terms of admission, taking AP and/or honors classes and getting a lower grade definitely penalizes you in the Cal State system and penalizes you if you take more than 4 and/or get more than a grade lower.

Julia

 

[MelanieC]

Our school district pushes for the students to take a more rigorous course load. My DD16 (gee wiz she will be 17 in a month - yikes), is a Junior and has taken all Honor's classes in her major subjects. She has always gotten A's and B's in all classes. Her GPA is 3.5 and 3.9 weighted.

Her school district does 4 classes for 1 semester and another 4 the second semester. She just finished her first semester and one of her classes was Honor's Chemistry. This was her first time doing Chemistry and she had a really tough teacher (and I've been told he wasn't supposed to be teaching honors due to many complaints). He told us at the open house that he teaches students like they were in college. Almost the entire class had c's or below. Just a few B's or A's by the students who were "science kids". There were a lot who failed or got D's. Both marking period's she went down to an F and had to work her way back up. She scraped by both marking periods with C's. The funny thing is, that the first day of class he went around the room and asked why you were taking this class. Almost everyone except her and a friend were going into science. When he asked her she said - because it was the next science class and I thought I had to take it? He asked her what she was going to do and she is going to study Journalism in school. Maybe he should have suggested she not take honor's chemistry. I don't know if he could have talked her out of it, but this has been a real eye opener.

So now we are really looking and trying to figure out what science class she should take as a senior. This C is really going to affect her GPA. In this case, I would have wanted her to take a regular science class.

Luckily next semester will be all easy classes. She will have Journalism, Algebra III, PE & Psychology.

Also - the college she is going to next year does not look at your weighted GPA, only your regular GPA (although I swear that her guidance counselor said what goes on the transcript is only the weighted - but I'm not sure if that is true or not). Luckily - her GPA and her ACT she has already taken is enough to get her into the pre-journalism program at the college she wants to attend. Now she only needs to raise her ACT by 4 points (may send her to sylvan learning center for a 12 week ACT course) to get her directly admitted into the Journalism program.

I still think that as long as they can get A's & B's in honor's program's that they should take them. Its better to have challenging classes.

Her class rank is based on 400 students - she is 79% (so top 21%) - its based on weighted GPA - but that just goes to show you that her school district has a lot of kids making really good grades.

 

[portocall]

I personally found my honors classes a lot easier than my regular classes, granted, my honors classes were in the subjects I liked, however, the way they were taught were done in my style of learning. I work with a former Dean of Admissions so I have picked her brain a lot, and here, where you go to school matters a lot. In fact, a lower GPA in one of "the" schools are weighted much higher than a 4.0 at some others. Not all of "the" schools are private, but it is good to know which ones they are, so now I have to worry about my children once they get to middle school to see if they can get admitted into one of the better schools... pain in the rear if you ask me. But no matter where you go to school or your GPA, the SAT/ACT matters the most...

 

[Sherwin]

When I graduated high school, I left with a 4.3 weighted, and around a 3.85 unweighted. I'm convinced that my class rank would have been higher if I had taken more Advanced Placement classes my junior year.

 

[mamamary]

This is a very interesting post.

My son is only in his first year of middle school but he was put in an advanced math class. So far he has been able to maintain an A thru the first two marking periods but.....it is a ton of work. Meanwhile his friends sail thru "regular" math with very little homework and my son has a ton of homework. I was also wondering if it is worth it - esp. for my son since it's only middle school.

 

[Christine]

I am so sorry, Christine. I remember your posts from way back then. I can only hope things will get better & will keep your DD & you in my prayers.

My DD is going through a very rough patch right now with a particular teacher - too long a story, but I hope we can get it straightened-out before this person ruins her GPA for this year.

agnes!

First off, let me say: Please get this worked out for your daughter. I had this issue with Chemistry, of which my daughter ended up failing, and the teacher would just not work with us in helping my daughter to get through. Amazingly enough, with a different teacher, Chemistry clicked and my DD got a B.

Now, as to what happened to my DD. She has applied for 7 colleges. Her "safe" school rejected her in about 3 weeks. They do not ask for essays or recommendations, nor do they ask for extracurriculars. I won't name the school publicly because of what has recently transpired. So, they are looking at overall GPA, SAT or ACT, and supposed "rigor" of courses. My DD met/exceeded the minimum guidelines to get into this school. My daughter is also enrolled in college prep level courses (except for math this year) and one AP course of which she has had a firm/solid B in this course.

My DD attended public school for her freshman year. Her GPA was a 3.2. In her current school, her GPA is lower; however, that is due to them not accepting one of her public school courses, having to audit the course again, and the school not accepting her "B" in that course (confusing) and then the failure in chemistry (she had a 71 in the course which is failing in this district).

I was told by the counselor that both school's transcripts would be send in together but would not be incorporated into each other. I was told the colleges preferred this. I was told that the colleges would look at each transcript seperately and take this into account.

When DD was rejected from "safe" school, she contacted the admissions office to inquire about what the rejecting factor was and explained the whole transcript thing. They agreed to take a second look, admitted that they did not review the freshman transcript, and now they are admitting her. Some of the other points that were brought up were that she was also carrying an AP course, which they didn't seem to take note of. As I said, other kids who I know are on par with her were accepted yet had no AP courses. There were no essays, etc. The school only cared about the bottom line number.

I can only pray that the other schools are more careful in reviewing the application.

 

[Cindy B]

First off, let me say: Please get this worked out for your daughter. I had this issue with Chemistry, of which my daughter ended up failing, and the teacher would just not work with us in helping my daughter to get through. Amazingly enough, with a different teacher, Chemistry clicked and my DD got a B.

Now, as to what happened to my DD. She has applied for 7 colleges. Her "safe" school rejected her in about 3 weeks. They do not ask for essays or recommendations, nor do they ask for extracurriculars. I won't name the school publicly because of what has recently transpired. So, they are looking at overall GPA, SAT or ACT, and supposed "rigor" of courses. My DD met/exceeded the minimum guidelines to get into this school. My daughter is also enrolled in college prep level courses (except for math this year) and one AP course of which she has had a firm/solid B in this course.

My DD attended public school for her freshman year. Her GPA was a 3.2. In her current school, her GPA is lower; however, that is due to them not accepting one of her public school courses, having to audit the course again, and the school not accepting her "B" in that course (confusing) and then the failure in chemistry (she had a 71 in the course which is failing in this district).

I was told by the counselor that both school's transcripts would be send in together but would not be incorporated into each other. I was told the colleges preferred this. I was told that the colleges would look at each transcript seperately and take this into account.

When DD was rejected from "safe" school, she contacted the admissions office to inquire about what the rejecting factor was and explained the whole transcript thing. They agreed to take a second look, admitted that they did not review the freshman transcript, and now they are admitting her. Some of the other points that were brought up were that she was also carrying an AP course, which they didn't seem to take note of. As I said, other kids who I know are on par with her were accepted yet had no AP courses. There were no essays, etc. The school only cared about the bottom line number.

I can only pray that the other schools are more careful in reviewing the application.

I'm sorry that you had to go through with this. Those applications are not reviewed well sometimes.

I had a heck of a time at my local university as well. I applied for one teaching program. I came in as a transfer with an associates and a 3.48 GPA (one C dug me down) I had transcripts from my maiden name and my married name. The university never matched my maiden name transcripts to the application and i was denied entry due to not having enough credits ---which I did have!

So I had to appeal the application and point out the mistake. The application office actually had the nerve to say "We were wondering why we had this transcript."

By the time I get the denied letter, the application deadline had come and gone. So I had to write the vice president of admissions and explain the situation. THey ultimately entered me into the College of Education but not the correct program. Then after I got the acceptance letter, I had to change the program.

 

[PlutoPony]

Lately, I've been hearing of more schools (colleges) asking for unweighted GPA's in addition to the weighted ones - is anyone else? Also more reports of students with "regular" course loads and A's being admitted over those with AP's / IB / Cambridge curriculums (the more rigorous curriculums) and A/B grades. When it takes a 3.8+ to be assured admission to a decent state u these decisions about course selection are crucial. More and more parents I talk to are really torn over what track to recommend for their kids....

 

[java]

Around here they do weight the grades relative to difficulty. Generally one grade point higher than what you get so if you get a B you get averaged in at an A - for transcript purposes- NOT report cards. Report cards come AS IS.

My son actually just decided to not take honest math next year. He is in it this year along with honors physics and Latin. The math is the toughest one for him so he is opting to go back to college prep next year(he'll be a sophmore) He will be in the higher course available but still just cp. They offer 5 levels of classes for math.

 

[laurabelle]

I feel your pain. Dd will be a junior in the fall and we are in the process of choosing recommendations for classes. I had her email her guidance counselor a couple of weeks ago for some input and bottom line she said in 11th grade you want a balanced schedule with more A's than B's on your report card to up your GPA. I am still not 100% sure of her choices, but for now she has a mix of AP/GT and honors. If she struggles too much before the year is over, I will talk to the GC about doing all honors.

 

[PatsMom]

I've talked to a few guidance counselors and the general consensus I got was "it depends on the school". DD's high school offers very few AP courses. We live in a poor area and they are opting to target the kids who will not go on to college. The Career and Tech Center gets much more funding than the more rigorous academic courses. And that is probably the way it should be since more students are in Career and Tech.

DD opted to take the more difficult classes where she could. I'm sure the C she got in AP Biology hasn't helped her transcript and it surely didn't help her class rank. But she has done well in her other courses. A C is average so I don't get why it is such a big deal, but evidently it is.

DD got accepted by her safety school very quickly. And given a Dean's Scholar Award which is a small four year academic scholarship. So in her case, not having a ton of AP courses evidently didn't hurt her. And I doubt they can take into consideration that the courses just aren't offered. I'm sure having good SAT's and writing a good essay helped her but it is my understanding that her scholarship is based soley on her GPA and class rank. So in that case, having good grades in less challenging courses probably put her ahead of someone from a school district that had a more difficult curriculum.

It wouldn't hurt to call the admissions office of the colleges you are considering to see what they look for. We are still waiting to hear from the two private colleges DD applied to. Both public colleges accepted her.

 

[Holly]

From personal experience, I've found it's better to get a 'B' in an Advance Placement classes vs. an 'A' in an regular or even an honors class.

This is the advice that I was given from an entrance counselor at the college my son hopes to attend.

 

[LargoLori]

This thread has come at a very good time as we are in the process of looking at high schools for DD. She currently is in 7th grade taking advanced level math and science. The math is a lot of work and is giving her high school credit but she is getting b's as opposed to a's in her other classes. We have IB program's available but several other good high schools with AP classes and magnet programs. We are actually going to an information fair this evening to check out all the programs available. My biggest concern for her is college. I want her to be able to get in the college of her choice but wonder if a difficult program like IB is the best route or just a good magnet program with AP courses. It is so much to think about. Also, could someone please explain weighted GPA vs regular GPA. Thanks in advance.

Lori

 

[Christine]

This thread has come at a very good time as we are in the process of looking at high schools for DD. She currently is in 7th grade taking advanced level math and science. The math is a lot of work and is giving her high school credit but she is getting b's as opposed to a's in her other classes. We have IB program's available but several other good high schools with AP classes and magnet programs. We are actually going to an information fair this evening to check out all the programs available. My biggest concern for her is college. I want her to be able to get in the college of her choice but wonder if a difficult program like IB is the best route or just a good magnet program with AP courses. It is so much to think about. Also, could someone please explain weighted GPA vs regular GPA. Thanks in advance.

Lori

From what I am reading, colleges don't really know what to do with an IB program. They certainly are good programs and prepare a student well for college, but the colleges in the U.S. are really on board with AP. I've read a lot on the net that IB programs didn't really help with college admissions.

Weight GPAs are given when a student takes AP courses. Those courses are "worth" more than regular courses. Generally, they are rated at 5.0 versus 4.0. For instance, I know a student who has a weighted 4.5 GPA on a 5.0 scale. I know another that has a 3.5 on a 5.0 scale. If a college looks at these, it gives them an indication that the student has taken harder courses and allows a student who is an AP courses to have a higher average than had that student taken regular courses.

Some schools weight their GPAs and others don't. Some colleges ask for unweighted GPAs regardless of what your high school is providing.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Also, could someone please explain weighted GPA vs regular GPA. Thanks in advance.

Lori

It should be in the handbook/coursebook at your school. Basically, the multiplier is different when calculating your grade.

So if you are getting an A in an AP class your GPA is higher than if you are in a reg. class.

Here in MO they base admissions on RANK and SAT/ACT score. So my dd taking the AP classes and getting good grades boosted her rank.

Now when we were in TX, it did nothing because the school was so competitive. Her rank here in MO was a 22%. In TX it was a 46%.

But in the end my dd wanted to take AP so it didn't matter to her. She really clicked with that type of class.
Plus she took a ton of history AP, which is her love and still misses her favorite teacher.

She always took reg. math, and needed a tutor. It is not her strong suit.

Ultimately it will come down to your ACT/SAT score. If you don't nail that, you are hosed.

 

[PlutoPony]

Some colleges ask for unweighted GPAs regardless of what your high school is providing.

See, this is what I'm hearing more and more.... which goes against the conventional wisdom that you're better off with a B in an AP than an A in a regular one.

Christine - sounds like you're hearing the same thing about IB that I am (and I believe we're in the same school system). We're trying to decide now whether DS goes to a very crowded "regular" HS or the IB route at another school. While I think the IB program would do a much better job of preparing him for college, not as sure his grades will be as good .... again, the fact that it takes a 3.8 or better to get into the good schools around here AND that unweighted GPA seem to be becoming the new measuring stick gives me pause....

 

[punkin]

How depressing. My DD is a Junior and taking some APs (1 last year and 2 this year). She is getting As and Bs. She did well on her SATs, but not exceptionally so. Yet, she is terrified of applying to college.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

How depressing. My DD is a Junior and taking some APs (1 last year and 2 this year). She is getting As and Bs. She did well on her SATs, but not exceptionally so. Yet, she is terrified of applying to college.

Have her take a prep course. It does help alot. My dd took a prep course (free) at her HS and it really taught her how to take tests, AP & SAT.

She boosted her score by 600 from that class.

 

[laurabelle]

Have her take a prep course. It does help alot. My dd took a prep course (free) at her HS and it really taught her how to take tests, AP & SAT.

She boosted her score by 600 from that class.

That's great! She is taking the SAT prep course (free in HS) in the fall. I heard you can expect at least a 200 point increase.