High School:Good Grades vs. Challenging Classes

[shelemm]

What is your family's experience with your high schooler getting good grades vs. taking more challenging classes?

For example, I was surprised to find out that my son didn't get into an International Baccalaureate program he was applying for in High School because ho got a coupe of Cs. But he took some very challenging classes. He did math at two levels above grade and took Latin for two years. Other kids who got in had easier courses.

I am wondering if it is better to take an easier courseload and know you will get top grades or go for an AP program in which the grades will probably not be as good.

 

[minniecarousel]

That is a delimma.

I think getting a 4.0 probably shows better than higher-weighted classes at a lower GPA. If a student can ace a regular class, it shows that he/she has the chops to do well. Extra-curricular activities may show more promise too. By junior year in HS, taking AP classes in their strengths would be a great idea, especially if they can make the "A".

 

[starrzone]

Well, I'll weigh in with my experience.

Out of junior high (back then, junior high was 7-9 and high school was 10-12), I went into the full IB diploma program. Not to toot my own horn, but I did very well in junior high; high honors, the works. I thought that I would enjoy the challenge of the IB program, and that it would help me get into top schools.

What I didn't take into account was that I have a nervous personality and don't tell to do well under pressure from others. I felt pressure from my mother to perform, and the teachers in those specialized classes are very involved with their students (I think this is great, but it made me nervous and jumpy!).

I ended up not doing nearly as well as I could have if I had taken regular upper-level high school courses. If I had taken the latter option, my grades would have been much higher, my self-confidence wouldn't have suffered and I think I would have been much better off. I look at my kid brother who just finished his Grade 11 exams, and none of his final marks was below a 90%. He is a smart kid, but not as academically-minded as I was at his age. However, I have no doubt that he will get a great scholarship and be accepted into whichever university program he applies to.

That's my story; hopefully others will chime in as well. When talking with your schild, take into account his personality as well as his academic interests. If it were me, I'd go with the lower-level classes and the higher grades, but that's from my own experience.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

DD13 just picked her freshman courses this week, so it's been a topic of discussion here. She's smart and motivated, but her strengths aren't mine, so I really work at listening to her and making sure I'm not treating her HS years as my "do-over".

She wants to be on the AP track, and will be taking Honors English, Algebra, and Earth Science, as well as Spanish 2. She declined Honors Biology--it wouldn't help her class rank at all, and the head of the science dept. said it would be a lot of work. She also does a number of extracurriculars, including band. Really, it's going to be a tough enough schedule as it is! Struggling through Honors Bio. would hurt her in many ways, IMHO, and there will be chances to add extra science down the road, should she choose.

To me, a child who is getting C's, even in a challenging course, has a problem. not necessarily with their intelligence, but maybe the coursework was too much? Or a problem with organization or something? While it might not technically be considered a struggling grade, I can see why it would raise a flag. It tells me that the class(es) and the child are not a good fit, for whatever reason. You might want to look further into what caused that, if you haven't already.

In the case of my DD, math isn't her strength. It's not likely she'll get A's. It doesn't bother me or her. DS11, OTOH, is a real math whiz, but has terrible problems with organization, laziness, sloppiness, etc. that are reflected in his grades. he may not be put in Advanced Math, despite his abilities, because of his poor performance. And I can't fault the teacher for that--the person to blame is my son. he says he wants AP calculus down the road, which is great--but he has to earn the spot, it won't be handed to him!

 

[powellrj]

DS is now a senior and took AP and honors classes and while he did well, he wasn't in the top 10% of his class.

This year, he has already been accepted into the college he wanted to attend so we let him slack off and take some fun classes. He is taking swimming and 2 choirs. I am amazed at the difference in him. He is much more relaxed and is really enjoying school. He only needs 2 classes to graduate and we let him take regular not honors classes in those too. His grade point has shot up and like I said he is much more relaxed this year.

 

[Christine]

I know the answer to this one in our school district.

Based on my DD's very good grades in middle school, she was put in college prep classes in high school. Some of her peers were placed in general courses.

She has struggled in College Prep but the guidance counselor assured me that the colleges will take into account the rigor of her courses.

Well, they haven't. The kids in my daughter's school who are in general courses have a tad bit higher GPA than my daughter. They are getting in places where she is getting denied. I am beyond pissed.

 

[powellrj]

I know the answer to this one in our school district.

Based on my DD's very good grades in middle school, she was put in college prep classes in high school. Some of her peers were placed in general courses.

She has struggled in College Prep but the guidance counselor assured me that the colleges will take into account the rigor of her courses.

Well, they haven't. The kids in my daughter's school who are in general courses have a tad bit higher GPA than my daughter. They are getting in places where she is getting denied. I am beyond pissed.

I always wondered about this. They always give you the weighed grades song and dance, but when we started visiting schools, many said they don't take weighted grades into play.

DS only wanted to attend one school and applied early and got in. We found that was the key. He works in the counselor's office and she told him the earlier he applied the better his chance. She was right. He applied in august and was accepted in October. Now kids with better SATs and GPA are getting denied.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

We took the challenging course route. But DS was able to pull A's and B's.

That said, his scholarship in college was based 100% on the 34 he got on the ACT. So the grades made no difference whatsoever..... but I believe the coursework helped him score higher on the the standardized test.

 

[Green Tea]

What is your family's experience with your high schooler getting good grades vs. taking more challenging classes?

For example, I was surprised to find out that my son didn't get into an International Baccalaureate program he was applying for in High School because ho got a coupe of Cs. But he took some very challenging classes. He did math at two levels above grade and took Latin for two years. Other kids who got in had easier courses.

I am wondering if it is better to take an easier courseload and know you will get top grades or go for an AP program in which the grades will probably not be as good.

If the kid is planning to go to a good college, hands down, no question; he has to take the most challenging curriculum the high school offers.

 

[Nohal]

I think getting an A in a college prep course is better than getting a B in an honors course. It looks better on the report card and is less stressful and gives time for other activities than the honors course.

 

[MontanaZoo]

Please don't take this as bragging but just answering your question...I took a lot of honors classes all through school. I would say, if your student is going on to a school that gives a lot of weight to the GPA and that can't be maintained in an honors class, go mainstream classes. I think the honors classes prepared me more for college and a difficult curriculum plus I would have been SO bored in the mainstream classes. I think it also accelerates your learning to be surrounded by people who have a level of understanding of the material and want to learn more.

 

[Rora]

From personal experience, I've found it's better to get a 'B' in an Advance Placement classes vs. an 'A' in an regular or even an honors class.

 

[jsmith]

actually colleges look at a combination of things-good grades, ACT and SAT scores, AP classes, jobs, community involvement.
IB is over hyped-most US universities dont know what to do with the credits and dont weight it when admitting students. They will come out of an AP track with more credit-if they can do well on the tests. Otherwise the only thing the weighted grade point average will do is affect their class standing. And-scholarships are driven by a lot of factors -including-unforunately sex and race-not just grade point.

 

[SorcererDonald16]

To answer the question, it depends on how badly the student is struggling with the challenging classes. If they're getting B's instead of A's, it's better to be in the challenging classes. If they're getting a C when they could get an A or high B in regular classes, it's better to be in the regular classes. I went to a top university myself, and returned for grad school. In grad school, someone from admissions came and spoke to us about what they look for in undergrads. She said a variation of the same thing: If you have a 4.0 and took a bunch of easy classes, you are less likely to get in than someone with, say, a 3.8 who took a lot of hard classes.

I know the answer to this one in our school district.

Based on my DD's very good grades in middle school, she was put in college prep classes in high school. Some of her peers were placed in general courses.

She has struggled in College Prep but the guidance counselor assured me that the colleges will take into account the rigor of her courses.

Well, they haven't. The kids in my daughter's school who are in general courses have a tad bit higher GPA than my daughter. They are getting in places where she is getting denied. I am beyond pissed.

I can definitely understand you being upset. I'm sure your daughter is disappointed as well.

However, what the counselor said was correct. Colleges do take into account whether the classes were easy or hard. Now, if she told you Cs and Ds were okay in the advanced courses because they were advanced courses, she was wrong. But the general idea that most colleges look at the classes you took and not just GPA is exactly correct. The slightly lower GPA might not be the difference; it could be recommendation letter quality, admissions essays, extracurriculars, etc. You just never know. I knew a girl in HS who had a much higher GPA than a guy I also knew. She had a decent amount of extracurriculars and job experience as well. He was in most of her classes, got much lower grades, had the same amount of job experience, but wasn't involved in anything except one sport that he was not going to pursue in college. They had about the same SAT scores. She got denied, he got a full four year free ride. Made no sense to me then, and still doesn't now looking back on it. Different colleges place priority on different things. I really hope your daughter gets into a school she really loves. Hang in there, I know this time is stressful.

From personal experience, I've found it's better to get a 'B' in an Advance Placement classes vs. an 'A' in an regular or even an honors class.

Exactly.

 

[agnes!]

I know the answer to this one in our school district.

Based on my DD's very good grades in middle school, she was put in college prep classes in high school. Some of her peers were placed in general courses.

She has struggled in College Prep but the guidance counselor assured me that the colleges will take into account the rigor of her courses.

Well, they haven't. The kids in my daughter's school who are in general courses have a tad bit higher GPA than my daughter. They are getting in places where she is getting denied. I am beyond pissed.

I am so sorry, Christine. I remember your posts from way back then. I can only hope things will get better & will keep your DD & you in my prayers.

My DD is going through a very rough patch right now with a particular teacher - too long a story, but I hope we can get it straightened-out before this person ruins her GPA for this year.

agnes!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

It helped my dd with her GPA. She got A/B's in AP classes. So it boosted her rank which helped her get into college.

The colleges we applied for based it on class rank and SAT score.

She also enjoyed the AP classes over the reg. classes.

It depends on the kind of student your child is.

 

[shelemm]

I want to thank you all so much for responding. Hearing these answers is a great help. I found each of your responses compellling, and I hope to take something important away from all of them.

What a great bunch you are!

The problem with my son is that he wants to bite off more than he can chew. He doesn't really want to do all the work necessary. Though he is intellectually stimulated by all the things that he could take. Last year, for example, he wanted to sign up for Latin AND Chinese until I explained to him that, although it is POSSIBLE to take the Chinese, it is taught at the local Community College at night with college students.

He has applied to a special countywide AP program for high school. I am hoping that he will be able to limit the number of AP courses he takes at any one time. He has a problem with organization that will not correct itself overnight. I think there is something to say for getting good grades in regular classes first, and then reaching higher step by step for greater intellectual stimulation. I am positive there are many situations in which students are unfairly punished for taking tougher classes if they can't maintain top grades.

 

[Pin Wizard]

DS' English teacher told her class that they are better off with a "C" in an AP class than with an "A" or a "B" in an Honors class. I have to disagree with that!

We will find an AP course geared towards DS' interests. I can tell you...there's no way he'll ever take AP English.

 

[agnes!]

DS' English teacher told her class that they are better off with a "C" in an AP class than with an "A" or a "B" in an Honors class. I have to disagree with that!

We will find an AP course geared towards DS' interests. I can tell you...there's no way he'll ever take AP English.

Are you KIDDING ME?!? I agree with you. And that teacher is INSANE. Unbelievable. I think someone should talk to the school counselors or guidance/career center at their high school, I'm sure these professionals would have a slightly different opinion .

agnes!

 

[Julia M]

Well, it may depend on what state you're in and what schools you are applying to. In CA, for the Cal State stystem, honors/AP course are meaningless.....it;s all staright GPA. However, we have been told (and it seems true, based on acceptances) that kids from our Catholic High School do well being accepted at private schools, where they will look at what school you come from and what classes you take. My son has had some honors course, and gotten B's-he would have been better of with regular colege prep, and getting A's.

DD has applied to high schools and will be taking the challenge exams in about 8 weeks. We have already decided, if she is accepted into Spanish II honors, she won't take it (only will do Spanish II) and that she will do the same with Geometry (won't take honors). She'll just do honors English, Science and history. She's a good student, but I think taking all honors courses is too much, and won't benefit you enough.

Julia