High operating costs will kill FP+

[Ellwood970]

I guarantee you Disney execs wish they could go back in time so they can put the first paperwork laying out the MM+,FP+system through a shredder and anybody who ever mentions it again can go find employment elsewhere.I've used the system enough to know the benefits are not that great,the system works best when the parks are empty and there are too many variables with the way people take their trips so that it makes the system too problematic and stressful.The website is also still awful!!!I recently had family buy AP's online and they're basically clueless on the whole system,they come to me for questions and I'm the one who should know the most and still couldn't answer their questions.For example they asked me about the magicbands,I got mine from hotel stays and when they started sending them to pass holders.I told them there must be a number to link on MDE so they would send them and they could then book FP+ online(which they didn't know they could do),they then told me their first visit will be with daytrippers buying tickets the same day at the gate so FP+ would probably not work until they get there and get them at the kiosks.I told them to call but they're choosing to get their passes at the gate,would that be when they get their magic bands as they're staying off site,can they choose colors.Basically they're coming to me with these questions and since I haven't dealt with these scenarios I just don't know,what should they do?

They cannot do anything until they get there with fastpass+ until they have the tickets. They can make ADR's. This is my scenario too, people in my party buying tickets at the gate. I think they want everyone to pre purchase tickets. .

 

[Ted C]

Let's not forget them having to stay up with the outside user platform softwares changing such as IOS, etc... Its a potential future nightmare. If Apple or anyone else throws them a curve ball downline then the system remains unstable. The good ole FP- machine was immune to such changes. Jay's wrong, they're into it for the long haul.

Also there are a lot of us that won't go nearly as often due to the calamity, and the highly inflated prices currently in place (we're paying for all of this you know...) That will take a while to wash out. My bet is earnings will be down in the next couple of years. But there overhead/maintenance won't....

 

[surferdave]

Suvadoo, I don't think the extra manpower that's bogging the works down is IT professionals; it's just CMs in the parks to help guests deal with MDE.

This is the relevant text that Hipster linked in the other thread, which was the exec defending the still too high overhead that the system is demanding in the parks:

"We are absolutely determined to introduce great product, even if the cost of introducing that product is kind of having your arms around it more than you need to when it's in its steady state. And we've been doing that, we've talked about that on our earnings call, the additional cost we've experienced with the MyMagic+ introduction, whether it was communication about it or the handholding and help that guests get when they're in the park. That will not last forever. Guests will figure it out and we will really start to see the revenue come through. " - Jay Rasulo Goldman Sachs 23rd Annual Communacopia Conference 9-10-2014

 

[Suvadoo]

We just bought APs. Our APs were automatically linked to MDE, so there's nothing I needed to do to activate them to make FP+ when the window opened. When I get to Disney I plan on stopping at Guest Relations to "activate" my AP. You don't get your AP MB until you activate the AP at the parks. At that time, a MB order will show up on MDE and they can then customize their bands. AP bands are only mailed out...you can't get a customized band at the parks. So first time AP holders with no MBs from prior resort stays will do their first trip MB-less.

I would encourage your family to make their FP+ selections when they can, and then ask Guest Relations to copy those FP+ selections to the day guests who are joining them at the park. It will be easier the day of to find FP+ slots for fewer people.

Wow, I'm glad you have all of this tribal knowledge to pass on. It just proves my point, FP+ is way too complicated for the average guest. Maybe Disney should start offering an advanced degree in vacation planning!

 

[Suvadoo]

Suvadoo, I don't think the extra manpower that's bogging the works down is IT professionals; it's just CMs in the parks to help guests deal with MDE.

This is the relevant text that Hipster linked in the other thread, which was the exec defending the still too high overhead that the system is demanding in the parks:

So, do you think the CM's in the park that are handling the FP+ support are basically paid the same wage as the CM's running the concession stands?
Even if this is true, FP+ requires a lot of additional personnel in the parks and this goes against Disney's goal of cost cutting.

 

[wisblue]

I'm glad to see that the OP at least modified the post from the other thread to recognize that FP+ is just one portion of the whole MM+/Next Gen product.

Unless someone can correct me with more reliable information, I have been under the impression that the $1-2 billion dollars that Disney has spent on this covers a lot more than just replacing paper FP with FP+. I have thought that it also covered changes and upgrades to all of the systems that affect the customer experience (resort reservations, dining reservations, ticketing, entrance operations, DVC operations, Magical Express, Photopass, etc, etc) and allowing these systems to communicate with each other so that guests and guest relations representatives could view a guest's entire agenda in one spot, which on the customer end is in the form of My Disney Experience. A significant part of this project is the conversion from magnetic stripe media for things like tickets and room cards to the RFID chip which is by all accounts more secure and durable. But, that conversion, which includes changes to readers on thousands of resort room doors, park entrances, and point of sale locations doesn't come cheap. If it were cheap and easy, credit card issuers in the US would have already converted to RFID but, as it is, that conversion is coming very slowly. This whole thing is nowhere near as simple as Disney deciding whether to spend $1-2 billion dollars on FP+ or adding a few new attractions to the parks.

With respect to the predicted demise of the FP+ component of MM+, I don't think that will happen unless Disney decides to scrap the idea of FP altogether. I certainly don't see them going back to distributing FPs only through machines located at ride entrances that distribute paper tickets for whatever time is currently available. I suppose they could consider eliminating all advance FP reservations and going back to the first come first served system of paper FP (but doing it through magic bands instead of paper spitting machines). But, I'm betting that won't happen.

The fact that a lot of guests seem to be having trouble getting the hang of FP+ doesn't mean that paper FP was any easier for first time or infrequent guests. Paper FP was around for the better part of 15 years, and yet Disney has said (and I have no reason to doubt them) that only 50% of all guests used the system at all, meaning that the other 50% either didn't know they could use it, didn't know how to use it, or had a hard time figuring out how to fit it into their touring plans. That allowed the minority that really knew how to use the system to grab the lion's share of the FPs issued. It's that minority that now seems to have become the most vocal critics of FP+.

I firmly believe that no matter what system is in place, a certain percentage of first time or infrequent guests are going to have a hard time understanding it, especially those who don't do any research or planning in advance (no matter how much information Disney feeds them in advance of their trip). Disney's goal has to be to try to reduce that percentage as much as possible because they are never going to eliminate it.

 

[skier_pete]

It's funny that the OP talks about IT, because MDE/FP+ seems like exactly an IT sales job.

"Oh yeah, we got this GREAT system, and once everyone is TRAINED on the system, it will make everyone's job EASIER."

The problem as Disney is that a large % of guests will NEVER be trained on the system, being one-time only guests. FastPass was around for about 15 years and there were still a large percentage of people that didn't know how to use it. Now they implement a system that's 5 times more complicated and expect there not to be 5 times the problems.

I personally don't have a problem with the change. There's a lot to like about it. I like the handsfree of the MB, the ability to pre-book the FP+, the flexibility of being able to change your FP+ on the fly, the app that you can use to check wait times. The only thing I don't particularly care for is the limitation to 3 FP+ at MK (3 is enough at the other parks) and the tiers at DHS/Epcot, making anything past 1 FP worthless.

There are pieces that they should be using technology to improve guest experience. I should be able to tell when the next bus to AK is going to show up at my hotel, and same thing how long a wait I have before a bus shows up for me to go back to the hotel. Do I have 10 minutes to get from the park entrance to the bus-stop or 2? THAT would make my stay better.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

With the old FP machines, I never saw more than 1-2 cast members available to help with any FP issues.

With the new system, guests need IT help for FP+ when they're making their reservations 30- 60 days out, and then again when they use the Kiosks in the theme parks. When I've been, there have been 2 cast members at every FP+ kiosk.

I don't recall that the CM's at the legacy FP machines had to consult their ipads to assist guests.

Yep. When I was there2 weeks ago. Each kisok was attended by a CM. Sometimes there were extra CM's with tablets and an extra CM to direct traffic.

Also I've never had to call IT before I went on any of my other trips. This time I did. Considering how many MDE glitches we hear about that, has to add up to some extra man hours too.

Think about that statement. I mean, really think about that statement and how he connected two things that I'm not sure can be connected.

I figured out FP+ a long time ago and as a result I spend less time and money in the parks. I think that will be true of others as they "figure it out".

So where does "the revenue come through"? Is it from increased guest turnover in the parks each day? While that might be true on already crowded days, I don't think it can be counted on every day of the year - they aren't having to turn people away from the parks every day.

There are a lot of things they could do to get me to spend more money. FP+ is not one of them.

Let's not forget them having to stay up with the outside user platform softwares changing such as IOS, etc... Its a potential future nightmare. If Apple or anyone else throws them a curve ball downline then the system remains unstable. The good ole FP- machine was immune to such changes. Jay's wrong, they're into it for the long haul.

True. The tech will always need to be maintained and upgraded.

 

[Suvadoo]

I'm glad to see that the OP at least modified the post from the other thread to recognize that FP+ is just one portion of the whole MM+/Next Gen product.

Unless someone can correct me with more reliable information, I have been under the impression that the $1-2 billion dollars that Disney has spent on this covers a lot more than just replacing paper FP with FP+. I have thought that it also covered changes and upgrades to all of the systems that affect the customer experience (resort reservations, dining reservations, ticketing, entrance operations, DVC operations, Magical Express, Photopass, etc, etc) and allowing these systems to communicate with each other so that guests and guest relations representatives could view a guest's entire agenda in one spot, which on the customer end is in the form of My Disney Experience. A significant part of this project is the conversion from magnetic stripe media for things like tickets and room cards to the RFID chip which is by all accounts more secure and durable. But, that conversion, which includes changes to readers on thousands of resort room doors, park entrances, and point of sale locations doesn't come cheap. If it were cheap and easy, credit card issuers in the US would have already converted to RFID but, as it is, that conversion is coming very slowly. This whole thing is nowhere near as simple as Disney deciding whether to spend $1-2 billion dollars on FP+ or adding a few new attractions to the parks.

With respect to the predicted demise of the FP+ component of MM+, I don't think that will happen unless Disney decides to scrap the idea of FP altogether. I certainly don't see them going back to distributing FPs only through machines located at ride entrances that distribute paper tickets for whatever time is currently available. I suppose they could consider eliminating all advance FP reservations and going back to the first come first served system of paper FP (but doing it through magic bands instead of paper spitting machines). But, I'm betting that won't happen.

The fact that a lot of guests seem to be having trouble getting the hang of FP+ doesn't mean that paper FP was any easier for first time or infrequent guests. Paper FP was around for the better part of 15 years, and yet Disney has said (and I have no reason to doubt them) that only 50% of all guests used the system at all, meaning that the other 50% either didn't know they could use it, didn't know how to use it, or had a hard time figuring out how to fit it into their touring plans. That allowed the minority that really knew how to use the system to grab the lion's share of the FPs issued. It's that minority that now seems to have become the most vocal critics of FP+.

I firmly believe that no matter what system is in place, a certain percentage of first time or infrequent guests are going to have a hard time understanding it, especially those who don't do any research or planning in advance (no matter how much information Disney feeds them in advance of their trip). Disney's goal has to be to try to reduce that percentage as much as possible because they are never going to eliminate it.

I agree that the initial expense was for the whole Next Gen project.
But now, I am saying that majority of the problems and increased support are caused by the FP+ component of Next Gen. I am also saying that I don't believe Disney will ever be able to reduce the support for the FP+ component of next gen. Therefore, Disney will be required to pour a lot of additional money into supporting FP+. IMO, FP+ costs will outweigh the benefits. I don't think they will dump all of next gen, just FP+.

 

[Ted C]

Which likely means your IOS will likely not work while they're trying to figure out how to integrate it, hence "buggy" is here to stay. The thing that concerns me the most is the feeling of the parks changing due to the CM's being beat down by the masses who are confused, overwhelmed, and mad because they don't understand the new system. You darn near have to have a college degree to use the thing properly. I've been dozens of times for many days each time and its just flat hard to figure out where you're going be on a 10-day stretch. People don't like that.

 

[Ted C]

Yes, instead of those CM's providing an enhanced guest experience they are, and will always be, doing damage control from here on out.

 

[BigMommaMouse]

Which likely means your IOS will likely not work while they're trying to figure out how to integrate it, hence "buggy" is here to stay. The thing that concerns me the most is the feeling of the parks changing due to the CM's being beat down by the masses who are confused, overwhelmed, and mad because they don't understand the new system. You darn near have to have a college degree to use the thing properly. I've been dozens of times for many days each time and its just flat hard to figure out where you're going be on a 10-day stretch. People don't like that.

I would guess having unhappy employees leave and then retaining new ones would be expensive too. Also if the the IT team is under a lot for strain (the team on the back of the system) replacing them, if they leave would be another setback.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Here's the problem as I see it - if the goal was actually to reduce the time spend in line, the system has failed. Wait times are up, not down. And even 3rd tier rides like Goofys Barnstormer are holding ridiculously long lines. So, the cost issue is one of guests being stuck in line while not spending money.


But, I'm not sure Disney cares. I believe the goal long term is to get guests to spend no more than 1/2 a day at a park. You ride your 3 reserved rides, have a meal, then retire to your resort. In order to ride more rides, you'll need to spend more days in the resort.

It ties in perfectly with the goal behind the current ticket pricing structure. Stay longer so Disney can make more $$$$ at the resorts, which means more $$$$ overall.

 

[flicx]

"

"So the guest satisfaction ratings, which are the ultimate driver of our future success and our future business, are also incredibly high with like 90% of the people rating the experience in the top two boxes, which doesn't happen very often."

I think this is where the "are they asking skewed questions" comes in.

Okay 90% The most devoted Disney fans would be a split at best. The newbies I am quite sure by what has been stated are lost in a lot of it. So the satisfaction rating is that high? To answer to OP's question. I think they will be doing a lot of modifying in the future. It has cost too much and will continue to. Measures will need to be taken so I see it evolving into something way different. Maybe it will still be named fastpass plus maybe not.

 

[surferdave]

Disney may or may not care about customer satisfaction, ease of use compared to FP-, or time spent in lines; they may have no compelling reason to care about those things. They do care about operating costs.

 

[Angel Ariel]

There are pieces that they should be using technology to improve guest experience. I should be able to tell when the next bus to AK is going to show up at my hotel, and same thing how long a wait I have before a bus shows up for me to go back to the hotel. Do I have 10 minutes to get from the park entrance to the bus-stop or 2? THAT would make my stay better.

ITA with this as well...the technology exists to have boards w/the appx time the next vehicle will arrive all over the place...metro stations, bus lines, across the country. It really is a bit unbelievable that Disney doesn't have something similar in place.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Which likely means your IOS will likely not work while they're trying to figure out how to integrate it, hence "buggy" is here to stay. The thing that concerns me the most is the feeling of the parks changing due to the CM's being beat down by the masses who are confused, overwhelmed, and mad because they don't understand the new system. You darn near have to have a college degree to use the thing properly. I've been dozens of times for many days each time and its just flat hard to figure out where you're going be on a 10-day stretch. People don't like that.

I sooo agree. I made my FP+s for December last night. This will be our 6th Disney trip in 4 years, and the third trip using FP+. I was even having a hard time figuring out when to book FP+s...when will we be where? When will the FP+ be "worth it" vs. going SB. Which FP+s should be booked ahead, and which of our favorite rides can we pass on pre-booking a FP+ for because there will be plentiful day-of availability? I had to create a new spreadsheet, which I HATE having to do.

But I was thinking...how many people really go into that level of detail and analysis? How many people just take Option A and move on with their lives, consider those FP+s to be appointments that they do, or do not, have to keep. While 50% of guests may be using FP+ before their trips, I'd be really interested in knowing what the uptake is in the parks. How many of those are being used? But I don't think Disney really cares, other than to determine the number of FP+s that they can allow for pre-booking. I don't think they care that you actually use even one of your FP+s...they just want you to make them so you feel obligated to go into a park that day.

 

[wisblue]

ITA with this as well...the technology exists to have boards w/the appx time the next vehicle will arrive all over the place...metro stations, bus lines, across the country. It really is a bit unbelievable that Disney doesn't have something similar in place.

I thought I heard that they had put things like this in place at some resorts. I haven't seen it myself, but our most recent visit was at a value resort (courtesy of a CM discount) and I'm sure they would be the last ones to get it.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

I sooo agree. I made my FP+s for December last night. This will be our 6th Disney trip in 4 years, and the third trip using FP+. I was even having a hard time figuring out when to book FP+s...when will we be where? When will the FP+ be "worth it" vs. going SB. Which FP+s should be booked ahead, and which of our favorite rides can we pass on pre-booking a FP+ for because there will be plentiful day-of availability? I had to create a new spreadsheet, which I HATE having to do.

But I was thinking...how many people really go into that level of detail and analysis? How many people just take Option A and move on with their lives, consider those FP+s to be appointments that they do, or do not, have to keep. While 50% of guests may be using FP+ before their trips, I'd be really interested in knowing what the uptake is in the parks. How many of those are being used? But I don't think Disney really cares, other than to determine the number of FP+s that they can allow for pre-booking. I don't think they care that you actually use even one of your FP+s...they just want you to make them so you feel obligated to go into a park that day.

Wasn't there a quick option that let Disney pick all of you FP for you?

I thought I heard that they had put things like this in place at some resorts. I haven't seen it myself, but our most recent visit was at a value resort (courtesy of a CM discount) and I'm sure they would be the last ones to get it.

I saw a board like this at the main stop at POR, but we didn't have one at POFQ and neither did any of the other POR stops.

 

[wisblue]

I agree that the initial expense was for the whole Next Gen project.
But now, I am saying that majority of the problems and increased support are caused by the FP+ component of Next Gen. I am also saying that I don't believe Disney will ever be able to reduce the support for the FP+ component of next gen. Therefore, Disney will be required to pour a lot of additional money into supporting FP+. IMO, FP+ costs will outweigh the benefits. I don't think they will dump all of next gen, just FP+.

As long we can avoid the statement that "all of this could have been avoided by just spending the money on a few new attractions". I have never seen those as either/or.

Sometimes I think people forget what a massive and complex operation WDW is, and just providing and updating the systems to run it is going to cost a lot of money.

I think Disney decided that the paper FP system wasn't providing a benefit to a high enough percentage of their guests and they are trying something else. If they decide that that something else is too expensive to run on an ongoing basis, I have no doubt that they will replace it. But I don't think it's ever going back to something that works like paper FP did.