Here's my humble opinion...

[Johnnie Fedora]

Many DVCers have reported that they actually would prefer a pass style that better suits "non-commando" park guests. We actually do not like to stay all day in the parks, but would rather the 1/2 day pass style or maybe the Tokyo pass types. The arguement that we already got our discount by buying into DVC may very well be true. However, a lot could change over forty years. If one or more of the parks were to close, the vacation value of our purchase wouldn't look as "discounted" as it does now. As far as discounts go, I'm not sure what will work for Disney, but I do know what would work for me. And at some small level that should matter, even to a large company (Polyanna view...maybe).

By the way, for something to be an official whine on the boards, it needs to be worded like this:

[FRAN] I wannnnnnt a DDDVVVCCC parrrrrkkkk pppppaaaaassss diiiiiiisssscounnnntttt [Dresher]

 

[mikek]

Anyone remember if there was ever a pol of which passes DVC memebers buy? I thought there was but when I searched, I couldn't find it.

I think that would answer pretty quickly if discounting would be a smart business decision. Assuming most people have enough points to hit the world more than 8 days a year you could make a few generalizations...

I f people mostly buy AP's then the discount is already there (every day after the 8th is FREE)- so Disney gets the intended effect- people probably going to the parks more.
If most buy hoppers, then I suppose it would make sense to offer a better discount, as it would seem that people are paying attention to the number of days they use.
And I suppose if MOST buy LOS that means either people dont care about price and are willing to pay a little premium to do whatever they want, or Disney has hit the mark with the discount they offer and provided a big enough break to coax people away from hoppers.

Those are of course generalizations so wouldnt apply to all cases, but i think would be accurate in the big picture sense.

 

[PamOKW]

Mike, I started just such a poll the other day. It also has a link to an older poll that was done.

Link to Poll

I have to say the "free" pass we received early on spoiled me. I need to have the flexibility to come and go as a I please throughout WDW (with the exception of water parks) or it isn't "vacation". They've got me trained so that an AP or PAP is my best bet.

 

[raidermatt]

Johnnie- While I would consider a few of the "I should have a park pass discount" crowd to be Fran wannabes, I agree that the majority are just stating their opinions.

I also understand your individual need, and I don't mean to dismiss it. Its just that as we know, if Disney is going to give-up some revenue, they need to be sure it will be made up elsewhere. I know that not all DVC'ers do the commando thing, but a park pass discount would apply to everyone. So while Disney may get more money in the long run from you, they would get less from me, because I would have bought the passes anyway. Neither of us have access to the numbers they look at, but they really do have to base most of their decisions on these numbers.

Also, before granting a discount, be sure that they try to determine exactly what affect a certain discount level will have. For instance, you stated the Florida resident discount would work for you, but would it really result in enough of an increase in purchases to offset the lost revenue from the discount? Not saying the answer is always no, but its still a question they must ask.

MikeK- Good idea, but I'm not sure the survey answers the question of whether discounts would be more profitable for Disney. It definitely lets us know what types of discounts would be appreciated by the most members, but it doesn't mean it will result in more passes sold, or more to the point, enough of an increase to offset the lost revenue from the discounts.

 

[mikek]

Pam thanks for the link- I knew i just saw it somewhere (i searched every variety of 'pass' and didnt see it)

I was rather surprised that so many buy hoppers. I assumed (I know, I know) that most buy AP's or PAP's. While the majority do that, quite a large percentage buy the hoppers.

Raider- I think it's relevant because-
If the vast majority buy AP's of one kind or another, than they have little need to give a discount, as most already come and go as they please, so theres not much more you need to do to entice them into the parks.
On the other hand if the vast majority buy hoppers, than i think a discount or something like the tokyo system makes sense- you would entice people into the parks to spend more off setting any ptotential drop in AP sales.
When its in the middle, then your right on, its a bean counter game. How many less AP's get sold because of the discount. They need to make sure they dont cannabilize one income source for another (at least not to the point of net loss).

I think they have done the math and it doesnt pay YET. I wonder if in years to come more 'convert' from AP's to hoppers. Reading the posts on Pam's poll, it seems some actually have had their fill of disney and dont go to the parks everyday. (seriously never considered that so many thought that- we dont commando from open to close, but its a very rare day indeed that we dont at least go a few hours) If the hopper percentages go up and the AP's go down, I think your more likely to see discounts.

Maybe, they never new how many have had their fill and now Pam has brought it to their attention. (we can all keep our fingers crossed).

I bet too that those most upset about discounts buy hoppers and those who are calmest about it already buy AP's.

 

[Granny]

Originally posted by mikek
I was rather surprised that so many buy hoppers. I assumed (I know, I know) that most buy AP's or PAP's. While the majority do that, quite a large percentage buy the hoppers.

mikek....AP's only work if you plan on spending at least 9 days at WDW parks per 12 month period.

On our two trips next year we will be staying at our DVC home for 13 nights. But we do not exclusively go to WDW parks. We also visit Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc. We will probably spend 5-6 days in the WDW parks, so the hoppers work fine for us. Plus the "never expire" part gives us the flexibility where we don't have to know exactly how many days we will spend in the parks.

 

[raidermatt]

Mike- It appears we are in agreement. No discounts yet, probably for good reason. But if enough DVC'ers are balking at the passes, it could change at some point. I'm certainly not predicting there will never be a change. DVC is a relatively new group, and has seen tremendous growth in recent years. Certainly changes could occur based on customer trends.

 

[Muushka]

. However, I'm also pretty sure that they don't just base this on somebody's opinion, but they actually track such things.

Oh yeah, I am sure they track these things (don't know for a fact, but sure seems probable). Everytime you make a PS they ask where you are staying and your room number. I am sure they like it when you put all of your charges on the room key, much easier to track. For us (and I said this on another post that I killed a few days ago ) we were at WDW last week and were there for 8 days. We made 3 PS (because of time/restaurant difficulties), but all other meals eaten there were walk-in. We paid cash for everything.

I know I sound paranoid, but I really hate that they can know my spending habits while there. In addition, I want them to be able to see a DVC member not spend any money there (that they can track anyway). That way, I am complaining with my pocketbook. We really have cut down spending money there. Even if I were not a DVC member, I would complain and cut down on spending and going into the parks.

I cannot blindly pay any price for anything, not even Disney!

 

[raidermatt]

Thinking about this from Disney's point of view, I would think it would be better if they saw minimal purchases on your room charge than no purchases. If you have no charges, they probably assume you are in the group that uses other methods to pay. Therefore, your spending habits have no impact on their decision making process. The only way this would impact their decisions would be if there were large numbers of people who stopped using room charges. But even then, the question would be did they really stop spending on-site, or did they change payment methods. Also, its not likely that large numbers will change their payment method just to make Disney think they are spending less on-site.

However, if you use if for minimal purchases, then your data is used along with the rest of the room-chargers. If there is a decrease in on-site spending among this group, Disney will see it right away, and they are more likely to respond to it if they see changes.

Going from $1000 on-site to $0 on-site tells me you have probably changed payment methods. At least this is more likely than you not visiting a single on-site establishment.

Going from $1000 on-site to $100 on-site tells me you probably have not changed payment methods, but are spending less on-site. If I were a Disney bean counter or marketing guru, I'd be concerned.

 

[Muushka]

Good point raidermatt. I guess they could have tracked the 3 PS we made, but from now on we will charge the minimal PS meals.

 

[PamOKW]

I'm not sure whether not using charge privileges makes that big a difference. Many visitors to WDW use cash, direct credit cards or traveler's checks. I don't think it's worth inconveniencing yourself from using the room charge privilege. After all, DVC really doesn't care what you spend at the restaurants etc. and I'm not sure whether Disney would be bothered checking so closely.

 

[mikek]

Pam I agree, i dont think DVC cares at all what you charge to your room. But whenever you charge to your key it goes through some sort of authorization and i'm sure the restaurants, stores, parks, etc could grab those stats if they cared (I'm sure they do at least cursory every night when they close out the books for each merchant- x spent in cash, y in visa/mc, z in room charge, etc.., but not sure if they trend it or pay particular attention to details like what resort etc)

Not to upset all of you, but the credit card companies know everything about your spending habits and dont flinch to tell the world (for a fee). Have a relative who is a VP at one of the larger CC's that basically runs their data mining operations.

Ever wonder how upromise, idine, transmedia, etc work? These are all things you sign up for and let them know your credit card numbers, if you charge with the card at a particular merchant, they give you points or rebates, or credits, etc.

Ever wonder why food stores (and everyone else now-a-days) gives you those little bar codes on your key chain and gives you discounts just for showing it? THey aren't just being swell here- they get the money to give you the discounts by selling info on EVERY purchase you make to others. Many of them are connected to the credit card databases.

So for example disney could call MBNA and say " hey how many people stayed at our hotels last year, spend more then 20$ a day in meals, prefer coke over pepsi, shop at staples on a regular basis, use eukenuba dfog food, and fly on delta airlines?" Tell you what- MBNA knows exactly how many.

Sure they dont know what you spent in cash on meals at disney, but they have models that can figure it based on the answer to the eukenuba question..., and certainly they can spot trends. Not sure if disney tracks all that and to what extanet, but i wouldnt be surprised if they know a good amount about their demographics...

 

[raidermatt]

Pam- DVC SHOULD care what we spend on-site. They could use this data in negotiations with the other Disney units to obtain the very discounts many are seeking. For instance, if DVC'ers really are starting to spend less on-site as some suggest, DVC could show this data to the theme parks/restaurants. Perhaps they could convince them that a discount program targeted at this growing group could be beneficial to them. If DVC were to obtain these discounts, it gives them another selling point for prospective buyers.

Also, knowing where DVC'ers are spending their money can help DVC with their own marketing. Let's say they find that DVC'ers spend 50% more money at MGM Studios than other guests. DVC could then emphasize MGM in their marketing materials.

I'd be extremely surprised if Disney did not track this themselves, however. If it were me, DVC would be one of the many sub-categories I could pull data on. I'd want to know the spending habits of guests from each resort, both DVC and non-DVC. Also based on size of group, number of children, size of accomodation, length of stay, etc, etc, etc. I'd be looking for opportunities among these groups, as well as trends in either a positive or negative direction.

But that's just me...

 

[PamOKW]

Oh I don't doubt this info is out there and could be use for many purposes. I also agree that IF DVC wanted to work on getting members a better discount, they could probably track down this info and use it in their sales pitch. So far, they just ain't interested. Maybe if sales slow down, they'll start to look for other incentives. Having a more substantial discount program might be a help.

That just made me think....first time purchasers of DVC probably stay at WDW resorts and purchase UMPs. To them, a promise of 10% off an UMP sounds pretty good. It's only AFTER we become DVC members do we start coming more often and switch over to APs (not all but I'm guessing a majority turn AP after joining not before). We're already in....DVC doesn't need to entice us.

Maybe if WDW notices that the resort occupancy and the park attendance are out of whack then they'll look into and discover DVC'ers want more. But, although we are growing, we are still a pretty small group in the total WDW park attendance.

 

[Granny]

PamOKW....your last sentence is exactly the point I was going to make. DVC membership is 60,000 (I think I read that), and not all members visit WDW every year.

That number as a percentage of all park attendees is pretty small. So I don't really see Disney as spending a lot of time trying to entice more $$ out of us....we just don't have the numbers, IMHO.

On the other hand, if DVC sales slow down, I could see the perks picking up (at least for new buyers). That would be a cost-justified reason for Disney to add more perks to DVC members, just as it was in the beginning with the free passes.

 

[BIERMUGG]

Question. If DVC Has 60,000 members, is that people listed on the contract or family members ? My wife and i are listed on our contracts but not our three kids, So if every DVC Member brings on the average of one extra person with them on each visit then
DVC could bring 120,000 persons to the parks a year. Add in members who make multiple visits and the numbers of Guests
DVC brings in is hugh.

 

[Richyams]

That number includes owners of HH and VB.

I think the way to look at it is the percentage of on site rooms that are DVC and occupied by DVC members.

One large resort(OKW), a pretty substantial resort(BWV), 1/4-1/3 of a resort??(VWL), 1/3 of a resort(BCV), 1 1/2 resorts out of ????? What do we guess, 10% of on site rooms DVC???

Even if the number is 5%, or even 2%, I think that represents a decent enough size to care about. I wonder what the actual figures are on our group's spending capacity. Are DVC members generally bigger spenders? Do they have a gigher then average income? I think that the answers to these questions would indicate that DVC members would be a good group to try to ensure daily park attendence.

 

[RobDoc]

Good point, Biermugg.

The 60,000 figure is actually contracts sold- without regard to the number of names on the contract. There are many who own multiple contracts. DVC estimates the number of unique owners (contracts) at more like 48,000. You can still apply the number of guests as before and arrive at a significant number.

The DVC resorts (and all other WDW resorts) track statistical information like average length of stay and uses that info in the overall demographic for WDW. As DVC members, if we go for 8 days, but pay cash on the weekend or switch resorts- the average may be much less than 8 days and could skew the figures for the DVC resorts.

If I check in on Thurs and stay 10 nites- but pay cash for the 4 weekend nites- the "average" would be figured as a 1 nite stay (Thurs on points), a 2 nite stay (Fri/Sat-cash), a 5 nite stay (Sun- Thurs-points) and a 2 nite stay (Fri/Sat-cash)- an "average" of four- 2.5 nite stays.

 

[PamOKW]

In the scheme of park attendance we are still fairly small. As Rich stated we are equivalent to let's say two resorts. Figure that as a percentage of all the resorts on and offsite and we are not that large. I'm not saying we should be ignored or that we don't provide revenue but we aren't going to make or break WDW.

 

[BIERMUGG]

As a whole group DVC is nothing to sneeze at. Our vacation guide in July told us DVC is the number 1 money maker for disney. I believe this to be true, if not you would not see the kiosks with the free give aways and advertisment everywhere at WDW. If there are 60,000 contracts and lets say each contract is a average of 100 points and the average cost for points is lets say $ 65 thats a total of $ 390,000,00. which probabbly paid for the Building of the resorts. Add in the annual dues, the rooms rented out of inventory and money spent at DVC. It is a big money maker and its almost guaranteed every year. DVC does not support WDW it supports itself. A strong, loyal and growing customer base is what any business dreams of and will usually bend over backwards to keep. There is an old saying in business
" If you do not keep your customers happy, someone else will"

Hope i do not come off as a complainer that is not my intention,
I love my DVC membership thats why we have 900 points.
it would be a nice pat on the back and a way of saying thank you if a better pass program was offered to us.