Here now - MK is packed

[mom2rtk]

That would actually be a really smart way to handle overcrowding at the
parks. :

I could be wrong, but I think that's part of the end game with this. But they have some other kinks to work out before they can move on to that.

We never buy hoppers so would not have taken them up on that offer.

 

[Fire14]

DH is down there today and said they had done everything they wanted in DHS without using FP+ and could I please change their fp+ to epcot this was at around 2:45-3:00p. I had no issues getting them fp+ at epcot and had choice of TT, Soarin or illumations for tier 1 plus whatever tier 2. I was in hurry so I just took whatever Disney suggested and booked it.

 

[beccawes7471]

We are also here now, leaving tomorrow am. MK was crazy today, we planned on going in the afternoon, break for dinner at Ohana and back for a few FP+ rides, but the non fp wait times were so long and my 4 y/o was def not going to wait 70 min for Jungle Cruise or anything else for that matter. We were actually in front of MK about an hr ago ( after dinner at Ohana) and people were swarming in, we checked wait times once more and decided to head back to our resort (POR), I cancelled our Fp+ that i had. This is the only trip we havent rode POTC, it was down on Tuesday when we were there, when it was finally back up it had crazy standby times. We had fp for tonight at 8pm, that was the earliest we could get 2 days ago. Every one of our prev trips, POTC was a walk on. I agree about the crowd calendars, we were at MK on Tuesday, supposed to be a 2 and at DHS on wed, supposed to be a 1, if those were 1 and 2 crowds I have clearly misunderstood how this works This is our 6th trip in 8 years, I'm not sure if/when we'll be back. We loved the magicbands but not the tiering at Epcot, DHS and the new fp+ system. I think we were spoiled by lack of crowds in prev years b/c we thought the crowds this week were crazy, everywhere the sidewalks and buses were packed. We'll see how things look, what if any adjustments are made in the program in the next year or so, we havent given up yet, we are hopeful

 

[JimmyV]

Sorry, you just don't get it. FP+ did not make the lines longer, the number of people did. The standby line should be shorter, if everybody is waiting in those long FP+ line.

The explanation provided by the PPs is correct. Unless you have been on a crowded day, you just won't appreciate how much of a game changer FP+ is. Many people think that it is simply a shiny new version of FP-. It isn't. First, FP+ is taking up a higher percentage of ride capacity. Second, in order to mollify all of these FP+ people, the FP return line is given super priority. It's no longer "let in 20 FP people, then let in 30 SB people." It's "let in 100 FP people, then let in 20 SB people". With the FP lines extending out of the attractions, they have to keep the line moving. The SB lines barely move. So while a SB line might be short in length, it can be very long in time. Finally, FP+ is now booking time slots that were never used before. In the past, the earliest FP returns were around 9:45, and few people grabbed those. As the clock ticked forward, return times disappeared. You can't go back in time. But with FP+, people have 60 days plus an hour or so to fill up all the slots between 9:00-10:30. Whereas those 90 minutes used to be "FP free", they are now fully slotted ( at least on busy days) causing the slow-moving SB line to start to crawl early in the day. And it only gets worse as the day progresses. Remember the strategy of "let's hit that ride before the FP people start to return"? Well, that can't happen any longer because the FP people start to receive priority at 9:05. This is why FP+ is making SB lines longer. Not longer in length, but longer in wait time. All of this anecdotal evidence can't be wrong or imagined.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

Pirates is only a 10 minute wait right now.

Sent from my IPad using DisBoards.

 

[kmc]

I could be wrong, but I think that's part of the end game with this. But they have some other kinks to work out before they can move on to that.

We never buy hoppers so would not have taken them up on that offer.

I definitely agree with that. Im actually excited to try it but hope they have some of the kinks worked out by December when we go. A friend was there last week and was approached by a cm that was asking all sorts of questions regarding the new system and what they thought worked or didn't work for the way they tour the parks. She said the cm commented that they are getting very mixed reviews and there are some definite changes coming from the data collected so far during the initial testing.......but as you know you can get a different answer from every cm you talk to

 

[Love Tink]

The explanation provided by the PPs is correct. Unless you have been on a crowded day, you just won't appreciate how much of a game changer FP+ is. Many people think that it is simply a shiny new version of FP-. It isn't. First, FP+ is taking up a higher percentage of ride capacity. Second, in order to mollify all of these FP+ people, the FP return line is given super priority. It's no longer "let in 20 FP people, then let in 30 SB people." It's "let in 100 FP people, then let in 20 SB people". With the FP lines extending out of the attractions, they have to keep the line moving. The SB lines barely move. So while a SB line might be short in length, it can be very long in time. Finally, FP+ is now booking time slots that were never used before. In the past, the earliest FP returns were around 9:45, and few people grabbed those. As the clock ticked forward, return times disappeared. You can't go back in time. But with FP+, people have 60 days plus an hour or so to fill up all the slots between 9:00-10:30. Whereas those 90 minutes used to be "FP free", they are now fully slotted ( at least on busy days) causing the slow-moving SB line to start to crawl early in the day. And it only gets worse as the day progresses. Remember the strategy of "let's hit that ride before the FP people start to return"? Well, that can't happen any longer because the FP people start to receive priority at 9:05. This is why FP+ is making SB lines longer. Not longer in length, but longer in wait time. All of this anecdotal evidence can't be wrong or imagined.

Come on, Jimmy. You keep being the voice of reason on every thread! And that person was having such a great time, rolling their eyes and laughing and laughing and making no effort to understand at all (never a good look).

 

[shaycamp21]

We'll be at MK next Friday. Oh boy!

Us too eek!!

 

[ilovemk76]

The explanation provided by the PPs is correct. Unless you have been on a crowded day, you just won't appreciate how much of a game changer FP+ is. Many people think that it is simply a shiny new version of FP-. It isn't. First, FP+ is taking up a higher percentage of ride capacity. Second, in order to mollify all of these FP+ people, the FP return line is given super priority. It's no longer "let in 20 FP people, then let in 30 SB people." It's "let in 100 FP people, then let in 20 SB people". With the FP lines extending out of the attractions, they have to keep the line moving. The SB lines barely move. So while a SB line might be short in length, it can be very long in time. Finally, FP+ is now booking time slots that were never used before. In the past, the earliest FP returns were around 9:45, and few people grabbed those. As the clock ticked forward, return times disappeared. You can't go back in time. But with FP+, people have 60 days plus an hour or so to fill up all the slots between 9:00-10:30. Whereas those 90 minutes used to be "FP free", they are now fully slotted ( at least on busy days) causing the slow-moving SB line to start to crawl early in the day. And it only gets worse as the day progresses. Remember the strategy of "let's hit that ride before the FP people start to return"? Well, that can't happen any longer because the FP people start to receive priority at 9:05. This is why FP+ is making SB lines longer. Not longer in length, but longer in wait time. All of this anecdotal evidence can't be wrong or imagined.

I have been at WDW during Thanksgiving, Memorial Day and Easter. I know busy. ETA: July 4th too.

Each FP+ is tied to a person. That person could be in the standby line or the FP+ line. The ride capacity IS the same. Unless they are sending off ride vehicles empty, there is no difference if the person is riding with FP+ or SB. With only 3 FP+s per person, most riders are going SB. Sorry, your logic is flawed.

 

[Minischnaumom]

Second, in order to mollify all of these FP+ people, the FP return line is given super priority. It's no longer "let in 20 FP people, then let in 30 SB people." It's "let in 100 FP people, then let in 20 SB people". With the FP lines extending out of the attractions, they have to keep the line moving. The SB lines barely move. So while a SB line might be short in length, it can be very long in time.

This is exactly what happened to us on Tues this week at Winnie the Pooh. Posted SB wait time was 20 min. Great, we can handle that. Just before the last turn and 15 min into our wait our line came to a complete and total stand still for over 15 min. Everyone in SB was getting really irritated. Finally we were able to see that the CM was letting in FP only because the FP line had gotten long. The CM started getting harassed from SB so she finally let maybe 10 people in and returned back to FP. A posted 20 min wait became 40 min. Not happy!

So unless you have experienced this, you would not believe how much FP+ can affect the line. A LOT of it depends on the CM. I think she was freaking out and trying to keep the FP+ people happy. All other CM's that day did a great job managing both lines. This girl just needed some retraining on how to manage the lines. You can let 30 or so FP+ in and then only 3-5 SB, any amt of SB at all as long the line inches up some!

 

[bcrook]

I have been at WDW during Thanksgiving, Memorial Day and Easter. I know busy. ETA: July 4th too.

Each FP+ is tied to a person. That person could be in the standby line or the FP+ line. The ride capacity IS the same. Unless they are sending off ride vehicles empty, there is no difference if the person is riding with FP+ or SB. With only 3 FP+s per person, most riders are going SB. Sorry, your logic is flawed.

More people are now riding rides too. That affects your argument. People who chose not to ride anything in the past are now given three golden FP to use. They don't want to waste them. I saw this first hand in October, I was at food and wine with a very large group. Nobody wanted to waste a single pass, even though I was begging them to let them go so I could enjoy more of the good eats at the Epcot kiosks. My group wore me out rushing all other wdw using up those ride reservations.

Disney said that 90% of customers are using FP+ now (3 per person). They also said only 50% were using FP in the past. And they said the average customer only used two.

Increased percentage of guests using FP for pirates, haunted mansion, pooh, small world leads to longer lines in standby or FP line.

 

[JimmyV]

I have been at WDW during Thanksgiving, Memorial Day and Easter. I know busy. ETA: July 4th too.

Each FP+ is tied to a person. That person could be in the standby line or the FP+ line. The ride capacity IS the same. Unless they are sending off ride vehicles empty, there is no difference if the person is riding with FP+ or SB. With only 3 FP+s per person, most riders are going SB. Sorry, your logic is flawed.

There has yet to be a Thanksgiving, Memorial Day or Easter with FP+, so you haven't yet been on a crowded day with FP+. Until you experience it, you just won't get it. See the post below yours. It is a real world example of how the system is working in practice. Let's reduce it to very small numbers to help you understand. Assume a ride can accommodate 60 people in an hour. (One per minute). Under the old system, between 9:00 and 10:00, 50 people got in the SB line and 10 people got FPs. The ride operator would let 5 SB people in for every 1 FP person with the FP people having priority. In minute 1, a FP person boards. In minutes 2-6, SB people board. In minute 7, another FP person shows up and she boards. In minutes 8-12, SB people board, and so on. No SB person waits more than a couple of minutes at most to board. With FP+, you now have 45 FP showing up and 15 SB people. Sounds great if you are in the SB line. Sure looks short. But in minutes 1-5, only FP people board. In minute 6 and 7, two SB people board. In minutes 8-12, 5 more FP people board. So after 12 minutes under the old system, 10 SB people boarded. Under the new system, only 2 did. Shorter line. Longer wait. So, if that is the problem, just get a FP+ for the ride. Great idea. But you can only get three. For your other rides, you are the person in the SB line watching dozens and dozens of FP people cut you off. Again, re-read the post below yours. People aren't making this stuff up. The next (first) time you ride BTMRR without a FP and you watch 100 FP people pass you by while you don't move for 20 minutes, you'll get it.

 

[disneyerin]

There has yet to be a Thanksgiving, Memorial Day or Easter with FP+, so you haven't yet been on a crowded day with FP+. Until you experience it, you just won't get it. See the post below yours. It is a real world example of how the system is working in practice. Let's reduce it to very small numbers to help you understand. Assume a ride can accommodate 60 people in an hour. (One per minute). Under the old system, between 9:00 and 10:00, 50 people got in the SB line and 10 people got FPs. The ride operator would let 5 SB people in for every 1 FP person with the FP people having priority. In minute 1, a FP person boards. In minutes 2-6, SB people board. In minute 7, another FP person shows up and she boards. In minutes 8-12, SB people board, and so on. No SB person waits more than a couple of minutes at most to board. With FP+, you now have 45 FP showing up and 15 SB people. Sounds great if you are in the SB line. Sure looks short. But in minutes 1-5, only FP people board. In minute 6 and 7, two SB people board. In minutes 8-12, 5 more FP people board. So after 12 minutes under the old system, 10 SB people boarded. Under the new system, only 2 did. Shorter line. Longer wait. So, if that is the problem, just get a FP+ for the ride. Great idea. But you can only get three. For your other rides, you are the person in the SB line watching dozens and dozens of FP people cut you off. Again, re-read the post below yours. People aren't making this stuff up. The next (first) time you ride BTMRR without a FP and you watch 100 FP people pass you by while you don't move for 20 minutes, you'll get it.

I FINALLY get it! Thanks!!

 

[ilovemk76]

More people are now riding rides too. That affects your argument. People who chose not to ride anything in the past are now given three golden FP to use. They don't want to waste them. I saw this first hand in October, I was at food and wine with a very large group. Nobody wanted to waste a single pass, even though I was begging them to let them go so I could enjoy more of the good eats at the Epcot kiosks. My group wore me out rushing all other wdw using up those ride reservations.

Disney said that 90% of customers are using FP+ now (3 per person). They also said only 50% were using FP in the past. And they said the average customer only used two.

Increased percentage of guests using FP for pirates, haunted mansion, pooh, small world leads to longer lines in standby or FP line.

Just because they did not use FP doesn't mean they did not go on the ride. They just went on the ride SB. The only way your argument holds any water is if people never rode rides and now are doing 3.

I was there with a large group in October and we did let some of our FP+s lapse.

There has yet to be a Thanksgiving, Memorial Day or Easter with FP+, so you haven't yet been on a crowded day with FP+. Until you experience it, you just won't get it. See the post below yours. It is a real world example of how the system is working in practice. Let's reduce it to very small numbers to help you understand. I do understand but you do not. Assume a ride can accommodate 60 people in an hour. (One per minute). Under the old system, between 9:00 and 10:00, 50 people got in the SB line and 10 people got FPs. The ride operator would let 5 SB people in for every 1 FP person with the FP people having priority. In minute 1, a FP person boards. In minutes 2-6, SB people board. In minute 7, another FP person shows up and she boards. In minutes 8-12, SB people board, and so on. No SB person waits more than a couple of minutes at most to board. With FP+, you now have 45 FP showing up and 15 SB people. Sounds great if you are in the SB line. Sure looks short. But in minutes 1-5, only FP people board. In minute 6 and 7, two SB people board. In minutes 8-12, 5 more FP people board. So after 12 minutes under the old system, 10 SB people boarded. Under the new system, only 2 did. Shorter line. Longer wait. So, if that is the problem, just get a FP+ for the ride. Great idea. But you can only get three. For your other rides, you are the person in the SB line watching dozens and dozens of FP people cut you off. Again, re-read the post below yours. People aren't making this stuff up. The next (first) time you ride BTMRR without a FP and you watch 100 FP people pass you by while you don't move for 20 minutes, you'll get it. I have seen this and I am smart enough to know what was going on.

Actually you are wrong. November 2013 had FP+ for all resort guests and we were there.

I experienced it but did you? If so, when? I know people who go every year at Christmas time. It was the same this year as the past 6-8 years. BTW, they were with us in October 2013 too.

I have seen many times where the FP- and FP+ line got priority over the SB line. I saw it happen on Buzz many times, including Thanksgiving 2013.

At Thanksgiving, as well as our October trip, POTC line was taking up most of the outside pavilion. You know what. That happened in Memorial Day 2013 and October 2012 too.

 

[Gonzofam]

It's Mardi Gras. People over here all get outta dodge and go to Disney World. LOL

(I'm in southeast Louisiana.)

 

[bcrook]

Just because they did not use FP doesn't mean they did not go on the ride. They just went on the ride SB. The only way your argument holds any water is if people never rode rides and now are doing 3.

I was there with a large group in October and we did let some of our FP+s lapse.

Which was my point. A higher percentage of park guests are getting in rides which would explain longer lines.

 

[anniee882000]

We were at DW President's Day week. Horrific crowds every day at every park. Here's what we learned, for what it's worth...

Plan your strategy and know exactly what you want your fast passes for and what time (we were staying off property so had to get FP each morning. We went in and went straight to the FP kiosk ( at MK there were people giving fast passes while we waited for rope drop).

We scheduled our fast passes for the afternoon when there was no getting on any rides without fast passes. All lines, even the traditionally fast moving ones like Small World, Pirates, etc had huge stand by lines in the afternoon.

Then once we had the fast passes schedules we hurried to where we wanted to get on rides right away. One day at MK we went to Thunder Mountain right away (got on twice in a row with virtually no wait), then went on Pirates (no wait), Jungle Boat (20 minute wait) Haunted Mansion ( 5 minutes wait) and by then the park was pretty crowded. We ate some, shopped, did some 20-30 minute lines and had fast passes for the afternoon.

The next day we went to MK we flipped and headed toward tomorrow land first and got on all those rides with little wait before the park started filling up.

Same type of thing at the other parks. But I have to say, I was surprised at how crowded everything was. Even the day we went to Animal Kingdom was supposed to be a "2" according to Touringplans, but it was wall to wall people. Not a real pleasant time to be honest. I know Touringplans bases their crowds on wait times, but to me, not being able to walk through the streets of Disney without being constantly jostled and bumped, not to mention run over by scooters and strollers takes a lot of the ambiance away.

 

[prudence64]

We were at DW President's Day week. Horrific crowds every day at every park. Here's what we learned, for what it's worth...

Plan your strategy and know exactly what you want your fast passes for and what time (we were staying off property so had to get FP each morning. We went in and went straight to the FP kiosk ( at MK there were people giving fast passes while we waited for rope drop).

We scheduled our fast passes for the afternoon when there was no getting on any rides without fast passes. All lines, even the traditionally fast moving ones like Small World, Pirates, etc had huge stand by lines in the afternoon.

Then once we had the fast passes schedules we hurried to where we wanted to get on rides right away. One day at MK we went to Thunder Mountain right away (got on twice in a row with virtually no wait), then went on Pirates (no wait), Jungle Boat (20 minute wait) Haunted Mansion ( 5 minutes wait) and by then the park was pretty crowded. We ate some, shopped, did some 20-30 minute lines and had fast passes for the afternoon.

The next day we went to MK we flipped and headed toward tomorrow land first and got on all those rides with little wait before the park started filling up.

Same type of thing at the other parks. But I have to say, I was surprised at how crowded everything was. Even the day we went to Animal Kingdom was supposed to be a "2" according to Touringplans, but it was wall to wall people. Not a real pleasant time to be honest. I know Touringplans bases their crowds on wait times, but to me, not being able to walk through the streets of Disney without being constantly jostled and bumped, not to mention run over by scooters and strollers takes a lot of the ambiance away.

I can't imagine that any park would be a 2 during that week

 

[Angel Ariel]

There has yet to be a Thanksgiving, Memorial Day or Easter with FP+, so you haven't yet been on a crowded day with FP+. Until you experience it, you just won't get it. See the post below yours. It is a real world example of how the system is working in practice. Let's reduce it to very small numbers to help you understand. Assume a ride can accommodate 60 people in an hour. (One per minute). Under the old system, between 9:00 and 10:00, 50 people got in the SB line and 10 people got FPs. The ride operator would let 5 SB people in for every 1 FP person with the FP people having priority. In minute 1, a FP person boards. In minutes 2-6, SB people board. In minute 7, another FP person shows up and she boards. In minutes 8-12, SB people board, and so on. No SB person waits more than a couple of minutes at most to board. With FP+, you now have 45 FP showing up and 15 SB people. Sounds great if you are in the SB line. Sure looks short. But in minutes 1-5, only FP people board. In minute 6 and 7, two SB people board. In minutes 8-12, 5 more FP people board. So after 12 minutes under the old system, 10 SB people boarded. Under the new system, only 2 did. Shorter line. Longer wait. So, if that is the problem, just get a FP+ for the ride. Great idea. But you can only get three. For your other rides, you are the person in the SB line watching dozens and dozens of FP people cut you off. Again, re-read the post below yours. People aren't making this stuff up. The next (first) time you ride BTMRR without a FP and you watch 100 FP people pass you by while you don't move for 20 minutes, you'll get it.

Great explanation, jimmy, and definitely spot on.

Yes, ride capacity is constant. But *which line* that capacity comes from is not, and the amount of time (not physical length) of the sb line is greatly affected by the ratio of fp+ guests to sb riders.

Like jimmy said...if, under fp-, 75 SB riders were boarding each hour, to only 25 FP riders, then sb will move very quickly. Flip the ratio to it being 75 FP+ riders per hour, and only 25 Sb riders and the posted SB wait time will be much longer.

In both instances the ride capacity is the same, 100 people, but *where* those people come from is vastly different and *that* is what affects the sb loading rate.

 

[Ariel on Land]

The explanation provided by the PPs is correct. Unless you have been on a crowded day, you just won't appreciate how much of a game changer FP+ is. Many people think that it is simply a shiny new version of FP-. It isn't. First, FP+ is taking up a higher percentage of ride capacity. Second, in order to mollify all of these FP+ people, the FP return line is given super priority. It's no longer "let in 20 FP people, then let in 30 SB people." It's "let in 100 FP people, then let in 20 SB people". With the FP lines extending out of the attractions, they have to keep the line moving. The SB lines barely move. So while a SB line might be short in length, it can be very long in time. Finally, FP+ is now booking time slots that were never used before. In the past, the earliest FP returns were around 9:45, and few people grabbed those. As the clock ticked forward, return times disappeared. You can't go back in time. But with FP+, people have 60 days plus an hour or so to fill up all the slots between 9:00-10:30. Whereas those 90 minutes used to be "FP free", they are now fully slotted ( at least on busy days) causing the slow-moving SB line to start to crawl early in the day. And it only gets worse as the day progresses. Remember the strategy of "let's hit that ride before the FP people start to return"? Well, that can't happen any longer because the FP people start to receive priority at 9:05. This is why FP+ is making SB lines longer. Not longer in length, but longer in wait time. All of this anecdotal evidence can't be wrong or imagined.

Excellent explanation!!!!!!!! (and exactly why I hate the FP+!!!)