Helpppppp not sitting together? Sort of budget related

[BLAZEY]

That's how I suspect this will end up - everyone will need to pay for assigned seating. And airline costs will go up for those that don't need assigned seating to pay for it.

No, it will return to the way is was only a few short years ago when seat assignment was included in the lowest basic fare, not something that was taken away and now charged extra for.

 

[piccolopat]

After our KCI to LAX flight (which the LAX to HNL really wasn't better as far as the following information) I've decided after watching more than 35 people pre-board (which included family boarding and ANYONE who "felt" they needed more time along with premium fliers and sky zone (both totaled around 20) and then zone one (which my husband had as he had the Delta Skymiles Credit Card) and then zone 2 (which is what I had as I was on a separate reservation due to using reward miles) followed by zone three that I much prefer how SWA does it especially separating pre-boards from family boarding. Seriously there were plenty of able bodied people who were using the pre-board and jeez the entire families boarded rather than just mom,dad, and kids. Of course there are invisible disabilities but there are only so many that require you needing an extra 2 minutes (which is how long they waited before allowing the premium to come on) to walk down the jetway. We bought our tickets 3 months in advance and when we bought there was a lot of seats left.

It's situations like you describe that lead to companies eliminating the courtesy. If people take advantage of pre-boarding when they really don't need to, the airlines will eventually cut that back. Perhaps they will have to limit pre-boarding to parents that need to install a car seat for an infant or those outwardly physically disabled such as in a wheelchair or with a walker. They could allow one companion to assist that person. Then they should load from the back to the front so people aren't held up by others and require that your carryon goes in the compartment above your seat only. This attitude that someone can take advantage of a good thing just because they don't want to wait is the reason why Disney had to change the GAC. Those people should hope that their "pretend" need doesn't someday become a real one.

 

[piccolopat]

I've stayed out of this, but you don't know what you're talking about. Delta already has fares that INCLUDE seat selection. They also offer cheaper fares that don't include seat selection. They do this to attract more customers. As has been noted multiple times, many people only look at the cost, not what they're getting for the cost. The more you pay, the more you get. Whether that's seat selection, seats that recline more, free drinks, etc. If I only want to buy 6 eggs, should I be charged the same price as those getting a dozen? Buy what you want/need, but don't complain later because you didn't get what you thought you were buying.

You are absolutely right. I wonder if these same people would walk into a car dealership and buy the cheapest car for the model they are interested in and then complain when they find out that it has a manual transmission and no A/C.

 

[piccolopat]

No, it will return to the way is was only a few short years ago when seat assignment was included in the lowest basic fare, not something that was taken away and now charged extra for.

The lowest basic fare will go up to go back to advanced seat selection for everyone. You won't see a separate charge for it but you will pay. Of course, some people will still complain that they can't sit next to their kids because they waited too long to buy their tickets and chose to fly at peak times and in peak seasons.

 

[crisi]

No, it will return to the way is was only a few short years ago when seat assignment was included in the lowest basic fare, not something that was taken away and now charged extra for.

But the lowest fare will go up to cover the cost and loss of profit.

 

[NinaBella]

I keep seeing people still make reference that parents should not pay extra to sit with their kid. You folks are still NOT getting it. Parents are not paying extra to sit with their kid. Here are the options that are available to all passengers regardless if you are traveling alone or with others:

1) Pay the price to pick your seat(s)
2) Pay the price to not pick your seat(s)

It is unfair to those who pay the price point to pick their seat to be asked to move for someone who did not pay the price point to pick their seat. There are a few exceptions to this like a last minute plane change where the seating options are different, but I am speaking on general terms.

 

[scard192]

You are absolutely right. I wonder if these same people would walk into a car dealership and buy the cheapest car for the model they are interested in and then complain when they find out that it has a manual transmission and no A/C.

agreed. Like most people I work hard for my money and I chose to be an informed consumer when it comes to buying a service (airfare) or a product. If others do not choose to research what they are buying then they really have no one to blame but themselves.

we prefer to fly JetBlue and be able to choose seats but for this trip we are flying the cheapest airline, Southwest. I know the boarding/seating policy and chose to pay $90 (3 passengers) for EBCI to hopefully make it easier for us to sit together; but know that is no guarantee. and I bought EBCI for all of us. and we will not be moving to accommodate anyone.

 

[KarenAylwood]

Whew! Thanks to those who replied, I was shocked to see there were 11 pages of replies. I actually haven't flown Delta in a long time (like I said I usually fly southwest). When I said I wasn't paying more it was referencing the two or three rows they had saved for "preferred seating" that had extra legroom and whatnot. I finally did get through to Delta and the woman assured me that they'd change it at the gate because a child that young wouldn't be allowed to sit alone per their rules.

We got to the gate almost 2 hours early and when I asked them the guy didn't even blink an eye and switched one of us to be sitting with him. Just handed me the ticket without saying a word and didn't act like it was any kind of inconvenience. At our layover I went to the desk and they immediately sat all of us together without asking. The first leg was the only one that they said we had seats, the rest all said "seats assigned at the gate. "

I honestly had no ill will in booking the cheapest flight and trying to bump someone that paid. I've been flying for years and didn't realize this is how it worked now. A few years ago I booked an international flight with my mom and they couldn't get us sitting together because of timing with booking and flights changing. I paid the $50 per ticket to move to get seats together. I knew it was my fault and not the airlines. In this case I had no idea now that the ownership and evidently cost are now on me to sit with my 3 year old at booking. Like someone else said, I entered our ages at check in, I didn't think they'd sit him alone, especially since they then said it wasn't their policy.

 

[ldo]

so glad it worked out for you. And thanks for reporting back. Every thing is going a la carte. Even water on an 8 hr overseas flight on one airline. Next thing, token for the bathroom? OTOH, if I can pay $25-50 for not having a seat reservation or no luggage, I'd like the option to take it when it works for me. It's hard to mentally tell yourself "that fare is not available for me." Personally, if the fare is a lot more, I might just risk it, as I think the gate agent or a passenger would switch you around. hope you had a great trip. Elaine

 

[crisi]

Whew! Thanks to those who replied, I was shocked to see there were 11 pages of replies. I actually haven't flown Delta in a long time (like I said I usually fly southwest). When I said I wasn't paying more it was referencing the two or three rows they had saved for "preferred seating" that had extra legroom and whatnot. I finally did get through to Delta and the woman assured me that they'd change it at the gate because a child that young wouldn't be allowed to sit alone per their rules.

We got to the gate almost 2 hours early and when I asked them the guy didn't even blink an eye and switched one of us to be sitting with him. Just handed me the ticket without saying a word and didn't act like it was any kind of inconvenience. At our layover I went to the desk and they immediately sat all of us together without asking. The first leg was the only one that they said we had seats, the rest all said "seats assigned at the gate. "

I honestly had no ill will in booking the cheapest flight and trying to bump someone that paid. I've been flying for years and didn't realize this is how it worked now. A few years ago I booked an international flight with my mom and they couldn't get us sitting together because of timing with booking and flights changing. I paid the $50 per ticket to move to get seats together. I knew it was my fault and not the airlines. In this case I had no idea now that the ownership and evidently cost are now on me to sit with my 3 year old at booking. Like someone else said, I entered our ages at check in, I didn't think they'd sit him alone, especially since they then said it wasn't their policy.

It may not be their policy, but I just saw it happen three weeks ago on Delta going to MCO. A kid, about three, seated in a window next to a stranger. The issue - the stranger was sitting next to their own kid. As was everyone in the fare class not in an exit row (where kids can't sit).

The parents had a choice to delay the flight and hope for better luck on a different flight or let their three year old sit next to someone else's six year old sitting next to her Mommy. Sometimes the puzzle just doesn't juggle.

Flights to MCO (and I know you said it wasn't MCO) and out of MCO are the worst for this. I've been taking a Saturday morning flight from MSP to MCO at least once a year for a LONG time - and there are always families with young kids split up. It was a Delta flight out of MCO where I gave up my aisle seat so a little girl didn't sit by herself to end up seated between the "can't take a hint" comedy duo - Overweight and Unshowered (it was honestly hard to tell them apart).

Never have an issue if I fly into San Jose - there are seldom kids on the Sunday at 5:00 flight to San Jose out of Minneapolis.

 

[kamik86]

It may not be their policy, but I just saw it happen three weeks ago on Delta going to MCO. A kid, about three, seated in a window next to a stranger. The issue - the stranger was sitting next to their own kid. As was everyone in the fare class not in an exit row (where kids can't sit).

The parents had a choice to delay the flight and hope for better luck on a different flight or let their three year old sit next to someone else's six year old sitting next to her Mommy. Sometimes the puzzle just doesn't juggle.

Flights to MCO (and I know you said it wasn't MCO) and out of MCO are the worst for this. I've been taking a Saturday morning flight from MSP to MCO at least once a year for a LONG time - and there are always families with young kids split up. It was a Delta flight out of MCO where I gave up my aisle seat so a little girl didn't sit by herself to end up seated between the "can't take a hint" comedy duo - Overweight and Unshowered (it was honestly hard to tell them apart).

Never have an issue if I fly into San Jose - there are seldom kids on the Sunday at 5:00 flight to San Jose out of Minneapolis.

I agree with this. Flights to BWI that I have taken from Albany are filled with single travelers in business suits. Family boarding consists of maybe 2 families. They could let everyone that is flying with a child under 15 board family and it still wouldn't be half the amount of people that a flight to MCO has.

 

[kamik86]

Here is a way to put it in Disney terms.

Its like the single rider line.

Do you think that families with younger kids are being forced to wait longer to be able to sit together?

Or is it that if you don't care who you sit near you can get in faster to fill in the space?

 

[KarenAylwood]

Here is a way to put it in Disney terms.

Its like the single rider line.

Do you think that families with younger kids are being forced to wait longer to be able to sit together?

Or is it that if you don't care who you sit near you can get in faster to fill in the space?

I get it, I really do. Where I struggle is it being obvious when you book. A single rider line very obviously states it is single rider. I went back to expedia it is very clear that there are baggage fees, and it even mentions that you can pick your seats with "budget fare" but it doesn't make it clear that you need to pay "x" amount to set your seat 100%. It let me pick seats but then in small writing it said they were "subject to change by the airline." If paying for an assigned seat is the way they are going, then that's their right as a company but they should make it obvious. Like when they started charging baggage fees. Did I think it was a crappy change? Yes, but I had no problems abiding by it as they were very clear about the charge.

If it was clear that I couldn't sit with my toddler unless I had to pay extra then I'd pay it. I didn't realize that was even an option when I booked. Again it was only clear that you could pay for preferred seating which mean extra leg room and spot in the plane.

It seems a little sketchy to me now that he changed our seats with no hesitation at all. Didn't call anyone up after to tell them they had to move... so what was up with that seat? I would think that if someone paid good money (better than I had) for that window seat, then they wouldn't have changed it so easily.

 

[BLAZEY]

But the lowest fare will go up to cover the cost and loss of profit.

I keep seeing people still make reference that parents should not pay extra to sit with their kid. You folks are still NOT getting it. Parents are not paying extra to sit with their kid. Here are the options that are available to all passengers regardless if you are traveling alone or with others:

1) Pay the price to pick your seat(s)
2) Pay the price to not pick your seat(s)

It is unfair to those who pay the price point to pick their seat to be asked to move for someone who did not pay the price point to pick their seat. There are a few exceptions to this like a last minute plane change where the seating options are different, but I am speaking on general terms.

Prices didn't go down with the removal of services, the airlines just removed them from the basic lowest fare and started charging extra extra for them. You are paying the same prices or higher for less service. Not very long ago the LOWEST price included basic seat selection and 2 checked bags. Now the airline charge for both. The seats were larger and had more leg room. Does it really cost the airline $40 for you to be able to pick your Basic Non preferred seat each way at the time of booking? No it doesn't. People travelling on the SAME reservation were seated all together across a row or in groups together. There should be no option NOT to pick your seat. The airlines only do it so they can oversell the flight. Would people buy 5 tickets if they saw there were only 3 available? No of course not.

 

[BLAZEY]

I'm glad the airline got it sorted and you will be seated with your child!

 

[crisi]

Prices didn't go down with the removal of services, the airlines just removed them from the basic lowest fare and started charging extra extra for them. You are paying the same prices or higher for less service. Not very long ago the LOWEST price included basic seat selection and 2 checked bags. Now the airline charge for both. The seats were larger and had more leg room. Does it really cost the airline $40 for you to be able to pick your Basic Non preferred seat each way at the time of booking? No it doesn't. People travelling on the SAME reservation were seated all together across a row or in groups together. There should be no option NOT to pick your seat. The airlines only do it so they can oversell the flight. Would people buy 5 tickets if they saw there were only 3 available? No of course not.

Companies need to recoup the profit that they were getting from these added fees - or their shareholders will not be happy. So even if there is no additional cost to the airline, they would be forgoing profit - they won't do that - they'll up the cost for everyone.

And for some airlines - they haven't made the investment in systems where seats are bookable. So for those airlines, costs will go up because they now need to add functionality.

Read the article I linked to.

 

[kamik86]

I get it, I really do. Where I struggle is it being obvious when you book. A single rider line very obviously states it is single rider. I went back to expedia it is very clear that there are baggage fees, and it even mentions that you can pick your seats with "budget fare" but it doesn't make it clear that you need to pay "x" amount to set your seat 100%. It let me pick seats but then in small writing it said they were "subject to change by the airline." If paying for an assigned seat is the way they are going, then that's their right as a company but they should make it obvious. Like when they started charging baggage fees. Did I think it was a crappy change? Yes, but I had no problems abiding by it as they were very clear about the charge.

If it was clear that I couldn't sit with my toddler unless I had to pay extra then I'd pay it. I didn't realize that was even an option when I booked. Again it was only clear that you could pay for preferred seating which mean extra leg room and spot in the plane.

It seems a little sketchy to me now that he changed our seats with no hesitation at all. Didn't call anyone up after to tell them they had to move... so what was up with that seat? I would think that if someone paid good money (better than I had) for that window seat, then they wouldn't have changed it so easily.

That is true but here I don't blame the airline but expedia. If you go to delta I think this is more clear.

This is what delta's website says on the basic economy fare "If you’re looking for a low fare, your travel plans aren’t likely to change, and you don’t mind where you sit, Basic Economy just may be your ticket. With Basic Economy, you’ll find low fares while still enjoying access to our premier onboard experience, including Wi-Fi, free personal video entertainment with Delta Studio™, complimentary snacks and award-winning service. This fare option includes no ticket changes, Main Cabin seat assignments after check-in, pending availability and limited Medallion® benefits."

 

[Hrhpd]

Also I wanted to vent a little about Southwest under 12 family boarding. I saw a family of about 8 (grandparents included) traveling on vacation and they had one child who maybe was 10-12 years old, yet the entire group of 8 pre-boarded with the child. I think that over-the-top. I think it should be the child and the other two individuals sitting in the row of three with the child. There is really no need for the entire group of 8 to need to pre-board. My complaint is really because they are not paying extra for priority seating when I am paying extra for priority seating. If they want to have this policy for 12 and under, that's fine and dandy but limit the family member number when it's a large extended family.

One of our flights in January I am paying extra for early bird boarding and my friend is not because her daughter is 12, she gets to pre-board anyways. Cheer families travel in groups and normally our gym travels Southwest. So in our group there might be 15 mom/daughter and several are under 12. Since they booked as a group should all 30 get to pre-board if say there are only 2 under 12? Shouldn't it just be those two mom/daughter combos? I think this has been the case in the past for some of our cheer families who pre-board and all sit in one section of the plane together.

Your cheer team is in for quite the disappointment if they think they are going to do family boarding with 12 year olds. Family boarding is only for 6 and under

An adult traveling with a child six years old or younger may board during Family Boarding, which occurs after the “A” group has boarded and before the “B” group begins boarding. If the child and the adult are both holding an ”A” boarding pass, they should board in their assigned boarding position.
​

While kids of 7 or 8 may be able to behave on a plane under normal conditions, the real question is how they will behave if an emergency occurs. Would they function as such mini adults in that situation? Or should they have the direction of a parent they know and trust and pretty much have an instinct to follow blindly telling them what to do? I hate to be morbid, but do you really want to be in a different row from your child in that case? And do you want to be the adult sitting next to a child who is separated from their parent?

Call me a dreamer, but I just don't think some things in life should be monetized. I think we as a society should strive to be better than that.

An airline decides that their window and aisle seats are worth x amount of dollars and offers a cut rate fare with the option to pay a little extra for the aisle and window seats if you want to book those. You can also, as the fare says, you take what you get (most likely a middle seat) for this cut rate fare without having to pay extra for anything.

Is what you are saying is that you expect airlines to give families with children the low cut fare PLUS an extra discount on the seats on either side of the middle seat? That the airline should not only give families the cut rate fare, but also throw in the aisle and window seat at no extra cost, basically another discount?

No, parents should book the regular fare that enables them to choose the seats they need.

Children should be automatically seated with their parents without parents having to pay for this. should be a basic service. It's a safety issue and also better for the comfort of other passengers as well

Do the airlines have several tiers of fares? The normal fare where children are sat together and then a cut rate fare to sell unpopular middle seats that clearly advertises that you have no control where you sit?

This!

This is exactly how it works in the UK, families are automatically seated together as long as they are on one ticket and young children must by law be seated next to a parent. I don't under stand why it isn't the law everywhere. The airlines don't need the distraction of a child separated from parents in an emergency situation. What is it on a crash landing you have 90 seconds to empty the plane. In that scenario those toddlers need to be with parents.

To me an airline sitting young children away from parents or charging parents to sit beside their young child is nothing short of irresponsible. Sam applies to the handicapped sitting next to carers.

The US airlines have this too. They have regular fares where parents can choose seats and be together. The fares just aren't the discounted fares that have terms that need to be met to get the discount.

It is not like the airlines are forcing parents to sit away from their children. They have the regular fares that allow them to make all their choices. As the fares get lower, your choices get limited. Nobody should expect to get the lowest fare yet get all the choices of the regular fare. That is crazy.

If planes in the UK can meet young children's needs to be with their families I don't get why it is so difficult for planes in the USA

I find this question quite silly planes are large and accomodate several people with varying needs and can be done by juggling seating by operations managers. Two needs then two solutions are required. 10 need 10 solutions. It's up to the airlines to manage it

All I am saying is it should t be decided by mr rich who flys 10 times a week gets what he really wants at the expense of the person with a real need

The airlines are managing it. Again, they have the regular, normal fares where people can pick and choose and families are sat together. I am not understanding why people think they are entitled to the discounted fares but then don't have to abide by the terms of the discount.

It is also hard to believe that most people will do more research before they buy a washing machine than they will before they buy a plane ticket. If a fare said that seats would be chosen for me, the first thing I would do is pick up the phone and ask if they keep children together with parents or if it was truly random.

OP, glad it worked out for you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's situations like you describe that lead to companies eliminating the courtesy. If people take advantage of pre-boarding when they really don't need to, the airlines will eventually cut that back. Perhaps they will have to limit pre-boarding to parents that need to install a car seat for an infant or those outwardly physically disabled such as in a wheelchair or with a walker. They could allow one companion to assist that person. Then they should load from the back to the front so people aren't held up by others and require that your carryon goes in the compartment above your seat only. This attitude that someone can take advantage of a good thing just because they don't want to wait is the reason why Disney had to change the GAC. Those people should hope that their "pretend" need doesn't someday become a real one.

Yeah I agree on that. Even with SWA people do take advantage of the pre-board and family boarding but it just seems way more easy with Delta, at least that was my experience, and maybe that's because even with my husband having zone one nearly half the plane (which seated 132 total so around 55 or so people before zone one and was a full flight; half the plane is 66) boarded before zone one was called.

The Sky Cab and Premium make sense no problem with that. At least when we were at the gate there was no pre-board authorization going on like at SWA which I could see being the real issue-no need to actually explain why you need to pre-board. They just said "anyone who feels like they need a little extra time boarding" Last time we flew Delta it was in April 2013 and I don't remember it being all that bad back then.

And I completely understand why Disney had to adjust how they handle things. It's terrible what people will do just in general to get on a ride/attraction/show faster.

 

[NinaBella]

Prices didn't go down with the removal of services, the airlines just removed them from the basic lowest fare and started charging extra extra for them. You are paying the same prices or higher for less service. Not very long ago the LOWEST price included basic seat selection and 2 checked bags. Now the airline charge for both. The seats were larger and had more leg room. Does it really cost the airline $40 for you to be able to pick your Basic Non preferred seat each way at the time of booking? No it doesn't. People travelling on the SAME reservation were seated all together across a row or in groups together. There should be no option NOT to pick your seat. The airlines only do it so they can oversell the flight. Would people buy 5 tickets if they saw there were only 3 available? No of course not.

Your reply to my post is not on topic with mine. Your post indicates your thoughts and issues with how the airlines have come to their price points. I am speaking on what the options currently are. My post was what current options are, not the history of how prices became what they are. Petition your concern to the airlines if you are seeking a change to current price points. Have a great day!