Help!

[kdm31091]

Here's my opinion, and it might seem harsh, BUT, your teacher told you not to use the Spark Notes, and you did. You got caught, you deserve a 0. It doesn't matter that everyone else used them, the rule is the rule, you broke it, you have to suffer the consequences.

That being said, I think you have an opportunity to mitigate the consequences. Meet with the teacher, tell the truth about how you used the notes, and ask if you can re-write the paper. Is it possible to re-write the paper using a different theory or premise? It might be too late, but I would still give it a shot.

Finally, make sure you and your mother are on the same page on this. She needs to have all the information, so she doesn't go into the meeting, guns blazing about how you have been mis-treated, and then feel silly when she hears the truth. I might also suggest you leave your mother out of this all-together, and handle it on your own, if you feel comfortable about it.

Good luck.

Denae

Once again, I didn't use Sparknotes in the way he forbade. He said do not use them to write your report. I didn't do that. Technically, I didn't break the rule.

I have to disagree with "theft of ideas". For example the main character lives in a hotel during some of the book. Well, that's a fact. The author of the Notes didn't conjure it up. It was lifted from the book. Therefore, I'm not stealing the author's idea. We both got it from the same source - the book. It's not an "idea", it's what's printed there.

By a few hints, I meant during the summary section, a few of the words felt "sparknotes-ish" for my mom (other members who read it didn't notice anything); not the analysis which was more then 100% personal, NOTHING from Sparknotes.

 

[Beth76]

Once again, I didn't use Sparknotes in the way he forbade. He said do not use them to write your report. I didn't do that. Technically, I didn't break the rule.

But you did use them to help you write your report, did you not?

 

[kdm31091]

Plagiarism doesn't have to be direct. There are a few things a teacher looks for, not just a few words here and there. You could have inadvertently followed the format of the summary in Sparks notes as well. If your own family found a "few hints," then it's plagiarism, plain and simple. Plagiarism is not only a theft of direct words and phrases but a theft of ideas as well.

Unfortunately, if I did follow the Sparknotes format, it was definetly inadvertent. I had the book and the Sparknotes in front of me during the writing of the report and after reading a few pages, would clarify on Sparknotes the meaning, and sort of write my report based on what I read in the book and the notes. I don't see what's directly 100% wrong with that. We're not all English scholars.

By the way - a little evidence that my teacher may be a little off - I've never gotten less then a B in english in my life. On any paper, essay, etc, and last year's English class was tougher than this year! I'm not a "0/40" English student.

 

[Independent]

(the summary was a little more lifted from Sparknotes), so shouldn't I still get some credit?

Ok, so here you do state that you "lifted" from Sparknotes.

If that is the case, I am sorry, but no you do not deserve partial credit. Unfortunately, even "a little more lifted" from another source without citing them is considered plagiarism.

I would apologize to the teacher, take a deep breath, and chalk it up to one of those learning experiences that are hard to stomach, but necessary. And as the others have pointed out, it is a good thing you learned it as a sophomore instead of in college.

 

[kdm31091]

But you did use them to help you write your report, did you not?

Not "help" in the sense that my report wouldn't have been written without them but help in the sense of clarifying the meanings for me. I truly do not see the issue here.

I realize life isn't fair, but I think if I used Sparknotes even remotely and got a 0 then everyone who used them should get a 0 too. Lo and behold the girl next to me who read her book and did her report the day before it was due, yes she used Sparknotes, got a 40/40.

I really wonder if he picks on me, because this is not the only incident. My last essay I got 10 points off for being a day late, but everyone else got 5. He claims it was two days late, but I clearly remember ONE day late. ONE. I'm not usually off when it comes to due dates. I would never hand in anything two days late.

Also, he thinks this sentence (in a previous essay) doesn't make sense:
Jack has the most sinister implication of all the characters.

By definition that sentence means that the character of Jack implies the most sinister meaning in the book. Don't see how it's an incorrect sentence. My mom and dad who met this guy both thought he was kind of cocky about my grades, so maybe he is truly picking on me.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Unfortunately, if I did follow the Sparknotes format, it was definetly inadvertent. I had the book and the Sparknotes in front of me during the writing of the report and after reading a few pages, would clarify on Sparknotes the meaning, and sort of write my report based on what I read in the book and the notes. I don't see what's directly 100% wrong with that. We're not all English scholars.

By the way - a little evidence that my teacher may be a little off - I've never gotten less then a B in english in my life. On any paper, essay, etc, and last year's English class was tougher than this year! I'm not a "0/40" English student.

I don't think that this is about whether you are a great student or someone that has done this before. This is about teaching you what plagirism really is besides copying word for word. The next time you use the website, read a chapter in your book then read some from the website to break it down if you need help. Don't use the website while writing your paper because it essentially isn't all your ideas. You can word them ten different ways from Sunday but it still in your head what you read on the website.

This is a big learning experience for when you get to college, should you choose to go. They have a no patience for this and I have seen kids dismissed from a class for it. For the record, the summary is also part of the paper and very important. The teacher wants to know that you get the idea of the book and can output it into your own words.

 

[kdm31091]

Ok, so here you do state that you "lifted" from Sparknotes.

If that is the case, I am sorry, but no you do not deserve partial credit. Unfortunately, even "a little more lifted" from another source without citing them is considered plagiarism.

I would apologize to the teacher, take a deep breath, and chalk it up to one of those learning experiences that are to stomach, but necessary. And as the others have pointed out, it is a good thing you learned it as a sophomore instead of in college.

Well, my word choice isn't the best. I didn't take the summary from Sparknotes and just copy it. I took 90% from the book and used the sparknotes' summaries to just change my writing, make it sound better, etc.

I realize it probably wasn't the best thing to do - I recognize that - however, considering the circumstances - the stress at the time, the fact that I DID read the book unlike most Sparknotes users, etc - I should really get some form of credit.

 

[kdm31091]

So should I just have the conference cancelled and save my breath?

 

[MushyMushy]

Unfortunately, if I did follow the Sparknotes format, it was definetly inadvertent. I had the book and the Sparknotes in front of me during the writing of the report and after reading a few pages, would clarify on Sparknotes the meaning, and sort of write my report based on what I read in the book and the notes. I don't see what's directly 100% wrong with that. We're not all English scholars.

By the way - a little evidence that my teacher may be a little off - I've never gotten less then a B in english in my life. On any paper, essay, etc, and last year's English class was tougher than this year! I'm not a "0/40" English student.

No, you're not an English scholar, but I am, and your teacher is. I'm not sure about anyone else in this thread, but it sounds like a few of us know our stuff.

Personally, I do think you should talk to your teacher, but not with mama as backup, and not with the "you're a butthole" attitude. You seem like a nice kid, but with everything you've said here, it sounds as if you did indeed plagiarize whether it was on purpose or not. Don't go in all defensive, but explain your position and if the teacher doesn't back down, take your lumps and move on from there.

 

[kdm31091]

So should I talk to him myself after school one day and attempt to explain the situation, perhaps ask if there's some way to make up some of the points?

This is where I really get mad at myself. I should have kept my mouth shut, but I was so upset from being given a 0, I nearly cried, I came home and ranted to my mom and now it will be tough to get her to forget it.

The first person I told was my dad. they're divorced, so I just called him and explained. Despite my upset and ranting state, he did say I should pursue it. So I told my mom, and now I wish I had just shut up and kept my 0 since I'm gonna be keeping it ANYWAY.

 

[MushyMushy]

So should I talk to him myself after school one day and attempt to explain the situation, perhaps ask if there's some way to make up some of the points?

This is where I really get mad at myself. I should have kept my mouth shut, but I was so upset from being given a 0, I nearly cried, I came home and ranted to my mom and now it will be tough to get her to forget it.

Yes, I think you should. I have a son your age, and this is what I'd have him do. If only he cared as much about his grades as you do!

 

[JR6ooo4]

School is for teaching one how to think. Not how to copy others ideas. I believe that is the reason the decision was made to "not allow" sparknotes.

Maybe you could ask to do another report for a different book, after apologizing for misunderstanding the teachers request.

Mikeee

 

[kdm31091]

Yes, I think you should. I have a son your age, and this is what I'd have him do. If only he cared as much about his grades as you do!

I especially care about english because it's the one subject I never fail at. Math, maybe, but not english. I really am not doing well this year. Luckily, I switched math teachers and that helped, so I'm hoping this english teacher is just a bad fit and next year will be back to my usual A's and B's in english.

I know I'm going to pass the class anyway, but that's not really what's upsetting me. I know I should've done the report correctly, with no help, but first of all, there's no way I would have gotten all the theme right, and plus, I was worried about other things. Sometimes life gets in the way!

Well, I think the least stressful thing is to tell my mom to cancel the conference and just go to my teacher after school and give it my best shot. At the worst I'll just be where I am now, without any embarassing parental misunderstandings.

 

[taximomfor4]

Maybe I am harsh mom. But I would not back my child in this. My 13yo dd...if she sought "help" in writing a paper from sparknotes, and ended up with a zero because of it, I wouldn't step foot in the school about it. In fact, I think a zero is a very appropriate consequence. Taking even half a sentence directly from Sparknotes is plagiarism. ANY plagiarism, turned in as your own work, deserves zero credit.

I also would say, you can't go through life comparing what happens to your peers. Life isn't fair...nobody promises it is. If you lost 10 points for a late paper, and others only lost 5, so what. I don't have sympathy -- I think getting ANY credit for a late paper is generous. I make my dd do late work and turn it in, even if she'll get no credit for it.

Most of us have probably been in situations like this. So we really do get it, trust me. However that doesn't change the fact that the teacher said not to use Sparknotes. To be safe, perhaps you should have not used Sparknotes AT ALL. It didn't exist when we were in school, and we still wrote book reports.

I think if talking with the teacher will make you feel better, go for it (without mom). But talking with the teacher to explain your situation should NOT include other kids' grades at all. Also, talking with the teacher should not include arguing for credit.

Good luck! really try to be assertive and apologetic. At the very least, you will clear the air.

 

[kdm31091]

Maybe I am harsh mom. But I would not back my child in this. My 13yo dd...if she sought "help" in writing a paper from sparknotes, and ended up with a zero because of it, I wouldn't step foot in the school about it. In fact, I think a zero is a very appropriate consequence. Taking even half a sentence directly from Sparknotes is plagiarism. ANY plagiarism, turned in as your own work, deserves zero credit.

I also would say, you can't go through life comparing what happens to your peers. Life isn't fair...nobody promises it is. If you lost 10 points for a late paper, and others only lost 5, so what. I don't have sympathy -- I think getting ANY credit for a late paper is generous. I make my dd do late work and turn it in, even if she'll get no credit for it.

Most of us have probably been in situations like this. So we really do get it, trust me. However that doesn't change the fact that the teacher said not to use Sparknotes. To be safe, perhaps you should have not used Sparknotes AT ALL. It didn't exist when we were in school, and we still wrote book reports.

I think if talking with the teacher will make you feel better, go for it (without mom). But talking with the teacher to explain your situation should NOT include other kids' grades at all. Also, talking with the teacher should not include arguing for credit.

Good luck! really try to be assertive and apologetic. At the very least, you will clear the air.

Well, that's good. I really don't want to be tense and nervous around him for the rest of the year.

In a way, I'm sort of glad, I guess, considering that at least I got nabbed and got the consequence and it's over now, instead of like the kids who got away with it, they have to wait to be hit with karma now.

We did an essay today for midterms, and I paintstankingly checked every single sentence of that essay, made sure it was as perfect as I could, made sure the main supports were refrenced in the introduction and conclusion, etc. If I did well on that it could push me towards a B, even with the 0, so I guess the world won't end with the 0.

I know life isn't fair, but I just hate how the potheads and slackers can get 40/40 for doing almost zero work, I do 90% of the work myself and 10% from sparknotes, and get a 0. It's just ridiculous. I can't wait for karma to smack them super super hard.

Karma WILL get them, right?

 

[taximomfor4]

Well, that's good. I really don't want to be tense and nervous around him for the rest of the year.

In a way, I'm sort of glad, I guess, considering that at least I got nabbed and got the consequence and it's over now, instead of like the kids who got away with it, they have to wait to be hit with karma now.

We did an essay today for midterms, and I paintstankingly checked every single sentence of that essay, made sure it was as perfect as I could, made sure the main supports were refrenced in the introduction and conclusion, etc. If I did well on that it could push me towards a B, even with the 0, so I guess the world won't end with the 0.

I know life isn't fair, but I just hate how the potheads and slackers can get 40/40 for doing almost zero work, I do 90% of the work myself and 10% from sparknotes, and get a 0. It's just ridiculous. I can't wait for karma to smack them super super hard.

Karma WILL get them, right?

I think you have a wonderful attitude, considering everything! Your mom should be very proud of you and your strong interest in your own education!!

Beth

 

[kdm31091]

Glad you like my attitude. There's one roadblock though.

I don't think my mom is going to budge about cancelling the meeting. How do I keep the humiliation low and help the meeting go smoothly?

 

[taximomfor4]

Glad you like my attitude. There's one roadblock though.

I don't think my mom is going to budge about cancelling the meeting. How do I keep the humiliation low and help the meeting go smoothly?

Just be completely honest with your mom...painfully honest, actually. And then let her know that you are coming completely clean with her, and would like to try and take your lumps yourself. I would be really, really proud of my dd if she came to me like this, and I think any parent wants their older child to begin learning to advocate for themselves.

And you are soooo right -- this was a great time to learn this lesson. Those "others" who used sparknotes might wait till the stakes are greater,before the lesson catches up with them. Actually, maybe pity them because the consequences might be much greater!!

Good luck!
Beth

 

[Serena]

Just talk to her. Tell her you realized you made a mistake, and realize the teacher is right.

(if you do) She'll know either way.

 

[kdm31091]

Well it's true. Hope she doesn't explode at me, but I'll try my best to word it so that nobody gets hurt.

Then I'll go to him myself and see what I get.