Help with son who spends more than he makes

[paulaccc]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

 

[ICF]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

IMO -- and my kids are younger than yours so it's easy for me to say now -- but it seems like it's time to tell him to move out. If he's quit paying rent ( which you were good to try and charge him) let him see how that would fly in the real world.

I'd also long have quit paying for his phone. He wants a phone, let him pay for it. I get he needs it for his job -- but why do you as the parents need to pay for it?

It seems like it's time he gets a better view of the real world.

 

[paulaccc]

Well in a way he pays for the phone with his "rent". He is supposed to give us $400 a month. He was good about it for a while but then, well, not so much because he had some car repairs to pay for. He has only been full time since June and was really not making much at all in the beginning. He got a 50% raise a couple of months ago which put him at the edge of poverty lol!

 

[Disneytam]

I'm so sorry to hear that you have this problem with your son. I think it is great that you are trying to get things straightened out now but I think you will have to be a whole lot tougher than you are right now. I have a brother that is now in his 40's and still his not learned how to stay within his means. I watched my parents spoil him and make all kinds of excuse for him but they didn't get tough love. They are both gone now and even though my brother always has a job he still spends double what he makes. He has been bankrupt twice, had his home foreclosed, and always owes money to everyone. Yet he still drives brand new car's and takes luxury vacations that he can't afford and "borrows" money from everyone. I don't want to scare you but this is what you have to look forward to if you can't get his mind set changed now.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Now is the time to learn these hard lessons. I'd reduce the "rent" and make him get his own phone and car insurance. It's nice to say he pays for it "in a way" but actually writing the check will make it a lot more real. If he needs it for work he'll figure out how to pay for it or he won't have a job...and at this age that still wouldn't be a terrible way to learn a lesson.

Since he won't sit down to discuss this I think you need to consider going beyond "making him a little less comfortable."

ETA: I'm not sure what "poverty" level is in your definition but even if he's making minimum wage working full time...he lives at home and has minimal expenses. He should be able to make that work. If he's not working full time then maybe he should consider a second job.

 

[MillauFr]

I really wouldn't worry about having his bills go to collections. It happens all the time. I assume he is in his late teens or early twenties. I think your son's overspending is extremely common. I would stop paying any bills even if that means they go to collections. The lessons that sunk in the most for me is when I crashed and burned. Having people give you advice helps but nothing replaces making mistakes and learning from them.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I really wouldn't worry about having his bills go to collections. It happens all the time. I assume he is in his late teens or early twenties. I think your son's overspending is extremely common. I would stop paying any bills even if that means they go to collections. The lessons that sunk in the most for me is when I crashed and burned. Having people give you advice helps but nothing replaces making mistakes and learning from them.

Totally agree

also @paulaccc you say your family is very good with money. Maybe this is part of the problem. Its very normal for children to rebel even subconsciously against the way things are done by their parents. You cant understand his over spending because to you thats not something thats normal. He is trying to find his own way, yet he is still living at home. Whats not normal to you is actually very common like @MillauFr said.

The more you nag and try to get him to do things your way, the more he will continue on the way he is. Back off, let the collectors come for him, let him , stop paying for his phone, stop paying for his car, dont buy food only he eats, dont buy groceries only he uses. Treat him like a flat mate, an adult, not a child.

 

[paulaccc]

So here's the thing. The letters come saying his bill is overdue but he won't even open them. Totally ignores them. I feel compelled to pay them because how will he ever get an apartment or car or whatever on his own someday if things go to collection? Aside from turning off his phone I'm not sure what else I can do to compel him to be better with his money. Also just to give you an idea, the bill we know about is from Game Stop and it has compiled with late charges to be about $400. So we're not talking about thousands of dollars. He probably has some sort of PayPal balance but I have no idea because that is all online stuff. Thankfully he has no checks so he can't write anything. I keep his credit card in a safe and to be honest I'm the one who uses it and pays it so he can establish some credit. I only give it to him on very very rare occasions-- A while ago (a year or more) he used to be in the negative in his bank account because he allowed himself the capability to overdraw (banks love him) but I don't think he is doing that now which is a good thing. He is 21 and not all that mature but is a totally sweet person, helpful and in every other way a great kid. No drugs or anything like that and his friends are great.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

I know that you want to protect him from having bad credit and a lot of debt, but he is now at the age that he has to start making his own way. That includes learning how to manage on the money that you actually make.

I agree that you should stop paying any of his bills, including the phone and insurance. Even if things are going to go into collections, you need to step away and stop rescuing him. Continue to charge him rent and treat it like any other bill. If he doesn't pay you by a due date, then charge a late fee and interest. Make it clear that if he continues to miss payments, then he will be "evicted" after X number of months, just like any other landlord would do.

These are lessons that he needs to learn now or else it will not get better. And if he won't talk with you, maybe you should make some conditions for him to continue living at home, such as meeting with a financial counselor and setting up a budget in Mint.com or another budgeting software. Tough love, but this will hopefully help him in the long run.

 

[BadPinkTink]

So here's the thing. The letters come saying his bill is overdue but he won't even open them. Totally ignores them. I feel compelled to pay them because how will he ever get an apartment or car or whatever on his own someday if things go to collection? Aside from turning off his phone I'm not sure what else I can do to compel him to be better with his money. Also just to give you an idea, the bill we know about is from Game Stop and it has compiled with late charges to be about $400. So we're not talking about thousands of dollars. He probably has some sort of PayPal balance but I have no idea because that is all online stuff. Thankfully he has no checks so he can't write anything. I keep his credit card in a safe and to be honest I'm the one who uses it and pays it so he can establish some credit. I only give it to him on very very rare occasions-- A while ago (a year or more) he used to be in the negative in his bank account because he allowed himself the capability to overdraw (banks love him) but I don't think he is doing that now which is a good thing. He is 21 and not all that mature but is a totally sweet person, helpful and in every other way a great kid. No drugs or anything like that and his friends are great.

he is 21 an adult with a job but still living at home with mommy and daddy looking over his shoulder. He is behaving like a child because you treat him like a child ( telling him he cant have friends over) honestly he needs to leave home, it is probally doing his head in that you are looking over his shoulder, harping on about his over due bills!

Instead of nagging him about money how about helping him move out of home.

 

[TwoMisfits]

He just sounds really immature...lots of young adults go through destroying their credit and come out in their 30s usually correcting their behavior...but it sucks, so I understand trying to prevent the situation. But you're probably only gonna be able to do it if he buys in to "the program" with you.

I would never have let him stop paying rent to fix the car...instead, I'd have floated him a loan (from your rent stash) and had him pay you back over 12-24 months while still paying the rent. Let him learn what it's like to be tight for a few months. I would also have him pay his own car and phone while STILL paying you rent. Rent is for the house, the utilities, and maybe the food (if it's what you buy anyway)...not for other stuff...so other stuff still comes out of his money...

 

[indimom]

A couple $400 bills going to collections won't kill his financial future. Plenty of people have come back from far worse than that. I agree with the others. Don't pay his bills for him. Don't remind him. Step back entirely. Just set his mail/bills in a certain place (his desk?) and let him deal with it. He's not dealing because he still doesn't have to.

Separate your accounts so he's entirely on his own, make sure he's using his own phone for the account contact number so you don't have to deal with the calls when they come in.

Let him crash and burn while the amounts are still small and manageable. When it starts to become harder/more difficult to avoid the problem, he'll be more likely to do something proactive about the issue. OR He'll end up getting his paycheck garnished, his phone cut off, whatever, and he'll have to manage like any adult would under the same circumstances. (Second job, overtime, cut expenses.)

Offer advice if he asks, but don't "help" him do anything. And don't "punish" him either. Life will do that for you, and then you don't have to be the bad guy. When he comes to you asking for help, offer sympathy and suggestions only.

(And for the record, I know how hard this is. We tend to feel likes it's a statement about us or our parenting if our kids do something foolish. But really, it has nothing to do with you. He's a young adult, making mistakes a lot of young adults make. Just try to take yourself out of the equation.)

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

Could you create a spreadsheet of expenses versus what he makes less his bills now while living at home then create another less bills that would be on his own? I would also account for things like dating and future marriage. Something he may not be thinking about, but could potentially happen sooner than later.

I would point out the saving opportunity he has now and how his money could grow if he takes advantage of that.

I would set some limitations. Give a set amount of time for him to achieve some things and then lay out the consequences if not.

I know as a parent we want to take care of our kids, but sometimes we can't and they have to learn on their own.

If he will not listen to you, I would set up an appointment with a financial advisor to go over all this with him.

 

[paulaccc]

Thanks for the advice. So you know, he does pay for the car expense on installments at work. Since he's a mechanic they let him do that. He also pays his own dental insurance via work, we cover his medical.

 

[paulaccc]

Jake, we did print a spreadsheet for him and also we want him to track daily expenses so he can see where his money is piddled away. Our financial advisor said he would talk with him and we just need to figure a time to do that. It is what you say about consequences that we are having a tough time with. We need to tighten the screws somehow but I don't know exactly what consequences are for a 21 year old.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Could you create a spreadsheet of expenses versus what he makes less his bills now while living at home then create another less bills that would be on his own? I would also account for things like dating and future marriage. Something he may not be thinking about, but could potentially happen sooner than later.

I would point out the saving opportunity he has now and how his money could grow if he takes advantage of that.

I would set some limitations. Give a set amount of time for him to achieve some things and then lay out the consequences if not.

I know as a parent we want to take care of our kids, but sometimes we can't and they have to learn on their own.

If he will not listen to you, I would set up an appointment with a financial advisor to go over all this with him.

Honestly, thats not going to work and only put his back up even more. I am an adult child living at home for the last 5 years due to personal reasons. I know if my parents did some like that, my attitude would be, ummm nope, not listening, dont care.

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

Honestly, thats not going to work and only put his back up even more. I am an adult child living at home for the last 5 years due to personal reasons. I know if my parents did some like that, my attitude would be, ummm nope, not listening, dont care.

I feel like in many circumstances, information is power. If he doesn't really know how money works how can he make financially sound decisions?

 

[BadPinkTink]

We need to tighten the screws somehow but I don't know exactly what consequences are for a 21 year old.

the consequences are he needs to move out of home. He is a young adult trying to deal with being a young adult yet still being treated like a child. Its time for tough love, give him a time frame, tell he has to leave home and give him all the help you can to get a place of his own. He needs his independence, figire out his own life without you watching his every move

 

[Pinkos]

Honestly, you've asked for advice but you don't seem willing to take any. Ppl have given you some really good advice here but you don't seem willing to take it at all. They are right, small debt is not going to hurt him. It's better to let that happen now vs later when the debts will be larger. He's 21 not 16. Let him grow up and figure things out. He's in the situation he's in now bc you keep saving him. I get its hard bc he's your son, but it needs to be done. And I think u know that or you wouldn't of asked for advice.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I feel like in many circumstances, information is power. If he doesn't really know how money works how can he make financially sound decisions?

He has to figure out his own way, not the parents way. Most young people now deal with things on a need to know basis. In his cosy little world, with mommy and daddy paying off his bills he does not need to know about proper budgeting so why should he care about spreadsheets and a financial advisor.

When he is out on his own, and needs to figure it out himself he will come and ask for help