Help! Why won't Disneyland (anywhere on property) accept a renewed DL or Tribal ID as Proof of age?

[bumbershoot]

I'd be willing to bet that the number of underaged kids trying to buy booze at Disney is legion.

Really? Teens want to spend $10 to get a cup of beer when they could buy a 6pack of the same beer for the same or less? Hmm.

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

Really? Teens want to spend $10 to get a cup of beer when they could buy a 6pack of the same beer for the same or less? Hmm.

Yes. Really.
I knew someone who got their pass revoked and they weren't allowed in the park for a year because they tried to buy a drink underage at DCA.

 

[StageTek]

Really? Teens want to spend $10 to get a cup of beer when they could buy a 6pack of the same beer for the same or less? Hmm.

Yes, really. Teen in DCA aren't thinking, "Let's leave the park for a few hours and see if we can get a 6 pack to drink in the parking lot and then come back." They want to walk around the park with a beer to share with their friends.

 

[StormyCA]

Really? Teens want to spend $10 to get a cup of beer when they could buy a 6pack of the same beer for the same or less? Hmm.

Yep. I think StageTek and Snap Crackle about have it covered. It's not about the price, it's about looking/acting like a 'grownup'. Or their perception of what makes them one!

 

[bcla]

This isn't correct. The law is indeed clear - that alcohol may not be sold or served to anyone under 21. Acceptable id's are also pretty clear and described in detail. But that's about it. There is no law that purchasers must have id. Nor one that sellers must id anyone.

Now in order to obey the one clear law (no selling to under 21'ers,) businesses are given wide latitude on their carding policies. So many places card everyone (and refuse sales without approved id) which makes it easier both to assure no under 21 sales and to train staff with such clear policy. But they don't "have" to card anyone at all. They should, they'd better or they'll end up without a liquor license. None-the-less, the actual act of verifying age via an approved id is not legally mandated at all.

As to why businesses go so far to id everyone, you are correct regarding the stringency of the ABC and costliness of both the initial alcohol license as well as any fines. I think one would have better luck fighting the IRS than the CA ABC.

Seeing an acceptable ID is an affirmative defense. That's why most ask for it.

I don't know if the law is that clear. It says a federal/state/county/municipal ID with a photo and listing DOB and a description is acceptable. It's not actually specific that it must be issued in the US nor that tribal IDs can't be considered acceptable. There might be some interpretations out there, and I understand that lots of businesses keep books of examples of licenses/state IDs, US military ID, and passports for employee training and reference.

 

[my*gracie*girl]

That is interesting. I went over my birthday in July, 2015 and had the Oregon paper copy of the renewed license and the expired original and they took them for selling alcohol at all establishments I attempted...I know for sure Tortilla Joes, Cozy Cones and Cove Bar.

 

[bcla]

That is interesting. I went over my birthday in July, 2015 and had the Oregon paper copy of the renewed license and the expired original and they took them for selling alcohol at all establishments I attempted...I know for sure Tortilla Joes, Cozy Cones and Cove Bar.

Sure. However, do you look like you might be borderline legal age for alcohol? The state has recommendations, and viewing an acceptable ID from a list is supposed to be a defense against a violation. As someone stated, there's no legal requirement that ID even be requested, but it's basically covering all bases to ask for ID. Actually, the language in the law isn't even specific that it has to be valid, just that a valid driver license is one of the forms accepted.

A document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a valid motor vehicle operator's license, that contains the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person. ​

 

[my*gracie*girl]

Sure. However, do you look like you might be borderline legal age for alcohol? The state has recommendations, and viewing an acceptable ID from a list is supposed to be a defense against a violation. As someone stated, there's no legal requirement that ID even be requested, but it's basically covering all bases to ask for ID. Actually, the language in the law isn't even specific that it has to be valid, just that a valid driver license is one of the forms accepted.

A document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a valid motor vehicle operator's license, that contains the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person. ​

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your question. He was showing an acceptable ID based on the list according to my experience...was the point of MY comment. That I traveled to CA and home from CA (by plane and through TSA, but I guess I hadn't mentioned that) with the exact same expired driver's license and renewal paper copy that the OP stated her daughter's boyfriend had and that it was considered a valid form of ID in each instance. My comment was directed at the OP and was expressing my surprise that he seems to have 3 pieces of ID that satisfy your exact quote. If they were unsure of the expired, it surely matched the renewal copy and if they doubted both of those pieces, his Tribal ID surely would have corroborated the first two. How old someone 'looks' has no bearing on whether they should trust your provided documents.

Perhaps the thread has taken a turn after the original comment and maybe it appeared that I was commenting or passing judgement on something else?

 

[Malcon10t]

Like BCLA said, they aren't required to ask for ID, however, if they sell to someone underaged, their only defense is a policy of taking an accepted by the state ID. If they are found to accept other IDs, then it can go against them.

I have been involved in company shops, where my daughter was to use unacceptable IDs (expired DL, an out of country ID, expired passport). She would approach and attempt to buy and if the employee accepted the ID, it was noted and the employee would be retrained. We worked both convenience stores and restaurants. Companies paid us to do it because the fines and penalties can cost them too much.

 

[my*gracie*girl]

But, he had both the expired and the paper renewal. Does CA do it differently? That is what we are given here in Oregon and IS a valid driver's license as long as they are both present/shown. Like I said, I flew to CA through security in OR and CA and ordered drinks on and off DLR property and every instance I they compared both the expired license (with a hole punched in it) and the paper renewal copy. I am just confused about what we are arguing, I guess! No worries.

 

[Malcon10t]

In California, the expired license is not valid. A paper license does not have a picture on it as required. Also the tribal ID is not an acceptable form in CA. If you were using an expired license for alcohol, I guess we will be getting busy again...

 

[my*gracie*girl]

In California, the expired license is not valid. A paper license does not have a picture on it as required. Also the tribal ID is not an acceptable form in CA. If you were using an expired license for alcohol, I guess we will be getting busy again...

Actually in Oregon and Washington the temporary license does indeed have a photo and they are watermarked/scannable like the regular license.

https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/pages/driverid/samplecards.aspx

http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/licenseexamples.html

edited: I may be incorrect about the barcode on the WA license. OR does for sure have that on their interim/temporary/renewal license.

 

[bcla]

But, he had both the expired and the paper renewal. Does CA do it differently? That is what we are given here in Oregon and IS a valid driver's license as long as they are both present/shown. Like I said, I flew to CA through security in OR and CA and ordered drinks on and off DLR property and every instance I they compared both the expired license (with a hole punched in it) and the paper renewal copy. I am just confused about what we are arguing, I guess! No worries.

Actually, a California temporary paper DL doesn't even require any photo ID to be valid for driving. I've lost my DL before, and one was issued for me with maybe 90 days validity for me to use until my DL with photo arrived. However, it's not supposed to be valid for airport security since there's no photo. A federally recognized tribal ID is recognized.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Technically, California specifies a single ID with photo, DOB, and description. The only exception is a passport, which will have a photo but typically no physical description. Accepting the expired photo DL and temp DL isn't compliant. A lot of bartender/cashier training stresses this. That doesn't mean that some might believe they're OK if they're convinced that a customer is of legal age after being presented with and expired photo ID.

The only consequence from the state is for selling alcohol to a minor. There is none per se for failure to check for acceptable ID. However, checking for an acceptable ID is an affirmative defense, even if the ID was borrowed/stolen/fake (but realistic enough).

 

[my*gracie*girl]

Actually, a California temporary paper DL doesn't even require any photo ID to be valid for driving. I've lost my DL before, and one was issued for me with maybe 90 days validity for me to use until my DL with photo arrived. However, it's not supposed to be valid for airport security since there's no photo. A federally recognized tribal ID is recognized.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Technically, California specifies a single ID with photo, DOB, and description. The only exception is a passport, which will have a photo but typically no physical description. Accepting the expired photo DL and temp DL isn't compliant. A lot of bartender/cashier training stresses this. That doesn't mean that some might believe they're OK if they're convinced that a customer is of legal age after being presented with and expired photo ID.

The only consequence from the state is for selling alcohol to a minor. There is none per se for failure to check for acceptable ID. However, checking for an acceptable ID is an affirmative defense, even if the ID was borrowed/stolen/fake (but realistic enough).

But, Oregon and Washington temporaries DO contain a photo/description....same as the expired photo ID. Which is why it is valid for TSA and should be valid for his alcohol purchase. Did you see my post above with links of examples? Your CA temporary paper would not satisfy the requirements, but my OR one did. And his WA one does.

 

[grnflash]

But, Oregon and Washington temporaries DO contain a photo/description....same as the expired photo ID. Which is why it is valid for TSA and should be valid for his alcohol purchase. Did you see my post above with links of examples? Your CA temporary paper would not satisfy the requirements, but my OR one did. And his WA one does.

Ok I agree that the temporary card probably does satisfy the requirement. I also think it would be wildly unrealistic for businesses to be required to train staff on all the ins and outs and possible variances, varieties, etc. of all potentially valid id's. Restaurants and bars aren't the TSA. And as this thread shows, the differences between states is extremely different - with 50 states to know about, that's just too darn much to expect. I'm thinking a few legit drinkers being denied is a teensy price to pay in order to deny a larger handful of non-legit drinkers.

 

[bcla]

But, Oregon and Washington temporaries DO contain a photo/description....same as the expired photo ID. Which is why it is valid for TSA and should be valid for his alcohol purchase. Did you see my post above with links of examples? Your CA temporary paper would not satisfy the requirements, but my OR one did. And his WA one does.

When in doubt, an employee is not going to accept it if it's not substantially similar to a "permanent" driver license. In California, anyone who sells alcohol has to go through an authorized certification course, and they don't cover every possible form of ID. Maybe some employees think it's OK, but I'm not surprised if one doesn't.

The Disneyland policy is that they won't accept temporary driver licenses as alcohol ID. What you describe is still a temporary license, even if it contains an image. Even though the state might not come down on an employee, the employer might for violation of the policy.

I think what you have is a gray area that isn't specifically addressed by California law. However, no seller is required to sell alcohol to anyone, and some adopt policies to limit their risks.

If you look at Washington's list, they only specify Washington's temporary driver license, but not that of other states.

http://liq.wa.gov/enforcement/acceptable-identification

 

[bcla]

Ok I agree that the temporary card probably does satisfy the requirement. I also think it would be wildly unrealistic for businesses to be required to train staff on all the ins and outs and possible variances, varieties, etc. of all potentially valid id's. Restaurants and bars aren't the TSA. And as this thread shows, the differences between states is extremely different - with 50 states to know about, that's just too darn much to expect. I'm thinking a few legit drinkers being denied is a teensy price to pay in order to deny a larger handful of non-legit drinkers.

They're worried about their jobs being on the line. On top of that, Disneyland policy is specific that they will not accept temporary driver licenses or IDs.

I can certainly see that the TSA might train their employees more thoroughly on identification, compared to a bartender who might just be taking a short online course.

 

[bumbershoot]

Yep. I think StageTek and Snap Crackle about have it covered. It's not about the price, it's about looking/acting like a 'grownup'. Or their perception of what makes them one!

You said the number is "legion". That's what I quoted and what I'm quibbling with. Not ONE random teen but the preponderance of teens at Disney.

 

[Kender]

I worked for a store that wouldn't allow us to accept any form of ID except for California state IDs/DLs, passports, and US military IDs. I had a lot of people get very angry at me over that. But a lot of the reason for that rule was because we were only trained for those. It simplified things for the company. We also only had to card if the person appeared under 30. Although we did have to card entire groups if they all appeared to be about the same age (and looked under 30).

TSA you don't technically need ID for domestic travel. I believe that was already covered earlier in the thread that one can get through security without an ID. It's just a pain in the neck and can take more time.

 

[my*gracie*girl]

I guess I need to back out of this thread. My initial post expressed surprise because I was served alcohol in multiple DLR with the same pieces of ID that the OP was stating wouldn't be accepted. Perhaps their policies have changed since July 2015.