Help needed for a punishment that fits the crime

[dicar123]

I'm going to weigh in with the camp which says the "Gosh, where did the egg go?" charade is unproductive.

I've done it to my own kids. I understand the desire to give them a chance to redeem themselves a bit by confessing. Here is why I stopped.

Asking "innocent" questions about what happened almost always backfire. If kids think they can possibly get out of trouble with a lie, they will. Then, we're mad about more than the original problem, and part of it, we created with our own behavior.

Second, when you bust them, they know you have been dishonest with them and they feel tricked. By mom.

I want my kids to trust me. I want them to deal with me in a straightforward manner. It seemed to me that I wasn't giving them a good example of that type of behavior.

 

[shortbun]

Perhaps allowing the younger to 'use' instead of 'take' something of the older's. But really, it goes deeper than that doesn't it? It's a betrayal of sorts to the younger sister. Consequences that go toward repairing the gap between them might be good. Older sister reads daily to younger sister? Older sister does chores of younger sister? I would seriously discuss the loss of the party on Saturday to make the 10yo understand the severity of her sin, although I might not take it away if other reparations can be found.
In this case there needs to be consequences AND restitution.

It is my opinion that you set her up to lie to you. She's 10 and it's reasonable for her to think she might be able to hide her crime. In a way, you lied to her when you tried to trick her into telling her. Straight forward communication....I found the wrapper from your sister's candy in your lunchbox...it's obvious you took it in spite of our warnings and refusals so we're now going to discuss consequences and how you are going to repay your sister.

 

[SandrA9810]

If missing a game is punishment to the team, missing practices wont hurt them. Maybe if she misses one or two practices, the coach will sit her out for the game. Then she'll still be there without the ability to play, which could probably feel like torture to her if she's used to playing in every game. And the team will still have enough players there to play the game. Don't they usually have like 4 extras on a time to swap out or something, so the same kids don't play the whole entire game?
Same thing with the party, if the friend isn't far away she should go deliver the gift and explain to the friend that she can't stay. She'll see all the other kids there and want to be there more.
It's easier to seem like you're not missing much, till you really see what you're missing.

It's hard to get kids to tell the truth like that, they usually haven't figured out by this point that the reason you ask "innocent" questions like that is that you know the truth already. If she isn't in trouble yet, and she doesn't think you know, she'll still lie hoping you haven't figured it out yet. But it still can teach her that telling the truth when some thing happens is better than trying to lie/hide it. And let her know if she comes clean on her own, her punishment would be less severe.
I'm surprised she didn't get sick from the chocolate. I know it's got a long shelf life, but I wouldn't assume it would last 5 months.

The first thing that you should do, is have her tell the younger sister what she did. If you tell the younger one first, she'll probably hold more resentment against it.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I would ground her from the party. I like the idea of visiting the friend and delivering her gift and explaining why she cannot come to the party, while you and the younger dd stand there next to her.

My dd's are 18 and almost 13, so no stranger to girl issues.

 

[cabanafrau]

So be it. Time for athletes to learn young that they don't get special treatment.

No party. No soccer.

^^^ Ding, ding, ding! Eggxactly -- pun intended. We have a winner. Your DD should remember this incident for the rest of her life -- and hopefully remember it's not a path she ever wants to go down again.

Sure, this situation really is inconsequential in the scheme of things, but it needs to be nipped in the bud right here and right now. This was a particularly deliberate act on her part and she proved to you she knew how wrong it was by compounding it with lies.

 

[robinb]

I'm going to weigh in with the camp which says the "Gosh, where did the egg go?" charade is unproductive.

I've done it to my own kids. I understand the desire to give them a chance to redeem themselves a bit by confessing. Here is why I stopped.

Asking "innocent" questions about what happened almost always backfire. If kids think they can possibly get out of trouble with a lie, they will. Then, we're mad about more than the original problem, and part of it, we created with our own behavior.

Second, when you bust them, they know you have been dishonest with them and they feel tricked. By mom.

I want my kids to trust me. I want them to deal with me in a straightforward manner. It seemed to me that I wasn't giving them a good example of that type of behavior.

It is my opinion that you set her up to lie to you. She's 10 and it's reasonable for her to think she might be able to hide her crime. In a way, you lied to her when you tried to trick her into telling her. Straight forward communication....I found the wrapper from your sister's candy in your lunchbox...it's obvious you took it in spite of our warnings and refusals so we're now going to discuss consequences and how you are going to repay your sister.

You guys said it a lot better than I did. that's what I was trying to put my finger on with the OP's questioning. OP, you lied to your DD when you said you didn't know where the egg was just as much as she lied to you about the same thing. You both knew that the egg had been eaten and you lied to each other. And now she has lost as much trust in you as you have in her. In addition, your average 10-year old will now dwell on being tricked by mom and how unfair getting caught was and not the real issue at hand: the theft of the egg.

I forgot to add in my earlier post that I also think that your older DD should apologize to her sister.

 

[Kath2003]

No kids but my two cents: I would ground her until Monday. That means no soccer, no party and bed time moved forward by 30 minutes.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think that a 10 YO knows that taking anything, even a chocolate egg, after being told not to take it is stealing. In my home it was not the value of the item that mattered, it was the actual theft that was dealt with. After a trip back to a store to return a small toy and to apologize for taking it my DS never took anything off of the shelf again.

I think the trust is damaged and would tell DD that I was so disappointed with deceit all over one small egg. She would be missing the party. She would be writing that letter suggested in another post. She would know that trust is earned and that she is responsible for earning my trust again. I would never teach my children to retaliate by taking another possession or destroying something special.

 

[cathyce2]

After talking with DH here's what we've decided....

Younger DD does not yet know about the theft. She was already in bed when it was discovered and since today is her first day of kindergarten and she was already nervous I didn't want her to be upset about the candy egg too. When they come home older DD will be explaining the situation to younger DD. Then we will be going to the chocolate shop where the egg came from where DD1 will buy DD2 a replacement treat of her choice. It's about 10 miles away so I'll be charging her gas money as well.

Then DD1 is grounded for 2 weeks. Since she won't be going anywhere execpt school and soccer she won't be needing her cell phone. She rides home with my neighbor so the adults can call if there are any problems. She will not be attending the party and will be explaining to the girl. I'll also make a followup call to the mother to explain in general terms that she can't attend due to a behaviour issue. I'm still feeling bad about this part since the girl is new to the area and doesn't have many friends here. DD1 new her from another activity previously. We will give a gift.
Since she will be spending lots of time at home she can help with some extra chores.

She will not miss soccer. This is an elite travel team with schedules set in advance by the regional league. I have to pay for practice time with the club trainer whether she uses it or not and there are financial penalties for missing games without a doctors note or prior club approval which this would not qualify for. Missing practices and games could also hurt her chances for making the team next year, so DH and I don't feel that taking away soccer is appropriate.

Thank you all for you insight and suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes...

 

[Pumbaa_]

good to nip this in the bud. Sets quite the example for both of the girls really. And the thief will think twice about stepping wrong as she enters her teen years

just another thought. Before you layout the punishment, ask her how she thinks she should be punished. She might be harder on herself than you would. Even give her time to think about how she should be punished. Compare against what you planned, and see how it comes out.

Then she can't complain about being grounded if she grounds herself

 

[dawson5]

My youngest son is a sugar junkie and a candy thief. The other day he confessed to stealing candy before I even knew it was gone. He is at the age now (11) where he knows it is wrong, knows that with stealing the consequences and reactions of mom & dad are worse when compounded with lying. Somehow we have instilled in him that honesty is always the better option, I guess after 11 years it finally sank in. We have used that same "do you know what happened to ____?" with him in the past, sometimes it's a genuine query as to the whereabouts of missing candy and other times it's because we knew he did it (found candy wrappers in drawer, under mattress, in pockets, etc.).

I wish the OP luck with this.

So be it. Time for athletes to learn young that they don't get special treatment.

No party. No soccer.

I have done this in the past and as recently as last football season, with the approval of his coach and a "talking to" by him. He also gave me the idea of making him go to practice and sit and watch.

One exception, I had called a coach to tell him the situation, explained he would not be making the game (baseball, 12 kids on the team, coach pitch, minimum of 8 players needed to play the game) and why. The coach let me know that he would be the 8th player and that they needed him or would forfeit the game. I conceded, let him play, he went, played and went directly home afterwards, no team snack. I spoke to him about not punishing the team and he had to write why what he did was wrong (I do not even remember what it was now). To this day, this coach will not "draft" my son for baseball.

Weigh your options, know your coaches. We've had two different kinds, the difference between our coaches, the football coach is the father of three boys that are almost the same ages as our boys and has run into the same problems, etc. The baseball coach has one boy, one girl and his solution to misbehaving kids is to write contracts with them. I can't say which option is better, I guess it depends on your kids. Be prepared if you make her sit out soccer that the coach (not sure how they handle the leagues where you are) might not want to "deal" with your daughter and the issues and might not want her returning to that team.

(replied to this before reading that OP had already replied.)

 

[DizBelle]

1. No party + grounding for a suitable period of time (through this next weekend perhaps). If it's a party, the friend will have plenty of other friends there.
2. She should purchase a comparable treat for her sister now
3. She should purchase a replacement egg when it becomes available

I wouldn't prohibit her from soccer. That's punishing the whole team.

Of course, she should also apologize to here sister.

 

[Dancemom03]

Since she will be spending lots of time at home she can help with some extra chores.

She will not miss soccer. This is an elite travel team with schedules set in advance by the regional league. I have to pay for practice time with the club trainer whether she uses it or not and there are financial penalties for missing games without a doctors note or prior club approval which this would not qualify for. Missing practices and games could also hurt her chances for making the team next year, so DH and I don't feel that taking away soccer is appropriate.

Thank you all for you insight and suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes...

Sounds like you covered all the bases. Here's hoping both your DDs find a way to use this time in a way that'll make them even closer in the future. When all is said and done, it may even be a blessing in disguise for your younger DD, as not only can she spend more time with her big sis this week, but the new treat can help celebrate her first week of kindergarten too.

If I had known your DD played more than rec soccer, there's no way I'd have suggested missing practice or a game. I don't normally buy the whole 'why make the team suffer' thing but with elite sports/dance teams a higher level of committment is expected. We learned the hard way once that, when there are competitive expectations and attendance requirements, every effort needs to be made to see they're met unless you don't mind playing elsewhere the next season.

 

[barkley]

i just want to suggest that for future reference (hopefully you won't ever have to deal with this again but you'll have the info. in case), talk to the coach or whomever is in charge of the soccer league and see if they have any kind of behavioural (on and off the field) standards that they tell the players that they are expected to adhere to. it's getting more common.

the highschool in the town where we formerly lived got national media coverage when they suspended from play several of their top players because of illegal behaviour off the field. it was'nt something the local police would have pursued and it was handled within the families of the players but looking at it "black and white" it was still illegal (kind of like with your dd and stealing the candy). the reason it got so much coverage in the media was because some of the parents were livid that their kids were being punished for something that occured off school grounds/not in the course of the sport. the school and the coaching staff stood firm and said that they had every player sign an agreement that their behaviour on and off the field reflected on the school/team and that their would be consequences in playing for both. the parents were reminded that they were sent a copy of the agreement and had been told from day one it was a condition of play.

the coaches and administrators were peppered with questions from the media about why they had this policy and i thought their answer was very appropriate-that part of team work is trusting your fellow players and knowing that they have developed the character traits and habits that will not cause a fellow player/coach to question if they are being deceitful or can not be trusted. the inital event that caused the problem with these kids was a lapse in judgement but what caused the greater problem is when they (like your dd) were questioned about it they were deceptive.

i understand your reasoning for not taking soccer away in this instance, but i think your dd should be told that elite team or not, should she engage in this kind of behaviour or other inappropriate behaviours in the future that the consequence will include loss of that privledge.

for me (and this is just me-i'll admit my kids are not into sports so i don't have first hand experience) when i talk to parents of kids in sports and i ask what they want for their kids out of the experience they always talk up the self esteem, character and team work aspects. i can very much support that, what i can't support is when i see these kids learn over time by their parents/other teammates parents actions that their sport holds some kind of "on a pedistal"/golden ticket status that always exempts it from being impacted by the players off the field actions/behaviours.

sadly, my kids have told me of classmates who are on these kind of elite teams who live and breathe it and would immediatly correct an inappropriate off field behaviour if it impacted their ability to participate BUT are very aware (and brag about it to their peers) that they know that their parents will "never" punish me so bad that they take practices/games away (with some their "self esteem" and "character" from the sport compells them to believe the team could'nt do it without them, with others they know all too well what their parents pay out of pocket for it-and that their parents will never "hurt themselves" by "losing" that money). btw-i'm not talking highschoolers in this instance-my kids have heard this from classmates since 3rd grade

 

[SandrA9810]

When good athletes get into high school and college, they do get special treatment. Especially when that school is well known for its teams. Kari went to the university of Miami, and her english teacher was forced to allow a football player to retake the final exam like a half dozen times... then grade him on a curve. Just so he would pass with a high enough grade to continue to play on the team.

It definatly needs to be taught very early on that things you do wrong off the field can affect the ability to make it on the field.

For this case, it's her first time. The punishment is very fair for the crime. Now if this was an on going problem, that would be a totally different story. The punishment shouldn't be as harsh as possible, because the next time something bad happens, you can't increase the punishment.
As a kid, a spanking on the butt by my grandfather was practically the only punishment, no matter how severe the crime was. So sometimes the crime was worth the punishment cause I knew what was coming.
You get what I'm saying??

As for the new girl in town. Maybe you can set up a day for the girls to hang out after the grounding is done. But without your DD's knowledge. Just so the new girl can feel like she's got some friends in the neighborhood.

 

[Disney Doll]

When I was a kid and we did something wrong, we'd have to work it off as punishment. Meaning we'd be doing laundry, raking the grass, cleaning the pool, buggy lugging stuff...it was amazing how much stuff my parents could come up with to do around the house if they needed to.

If we were acting up, my mother would say "The toilets needs a good scrubbing. If this behavior doesn't stop now, one of you will be doing it".

 

[minkydog]

After talking with DH here's what we've decided....

Younger DD does not yet know about the theft. She was already in bed when it was discovered and since today is her first day of kindergarten and she was already nervous I didn't want her to be upset about the candy egg too. When they come home older DD will be explaining the situation to younger DD. Then we will be going to the chocolate shop where the egg came from where DD1 will buy DD2 a replacement treat of her choice. It's about 10 miles away so I'll be charging her gas money as well.

Then DD1 is grounded for 2 weeks. Since she won't be going anywhere execpt school and soccer she won't be needing her cell phone. She rides home with my neighbor so the adults can call if there are any problems. She will not be attending the party and will be explaining to the girl. I'll also make a followup call to the mother to explain in general terms that she can't attend due to a behaviour issue. I'm still feeling bad about this part since the girl is new to the area and doesn't have many friends here. DD1 new her from another activity previously. We will give a gift.
Since she will be spending lots of time at home she can help with some extra chores.

She will not miss soccer. This is an elite travel team with schedules set in advance by the regional league. I have to pay for practice time with the club trainer whether she uses it or not and there are financial penalties for missing games without a doctors note or prior club approval which this would not qualify for. Missing practices and games could also hurt her chances for making the team next year, so DH and I don't feel that taking away soccer is appropriate.

Thank you all for you insight and suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes...

this sounds very fair and the punishment fits the crime. Way to go

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree with these consequences except that she definitely would not play soccer - and, in this house, she'd miss more than just one practice/game so it couldn't be brushed off easily as "well I didn't really want to go today anyway". Call the coach ahead of time to let them know though. If the team is small enough that one or two girls will cause a forfiet, that'll give him the opportunity to contact the other coach and ask to reschedule for a date he'll be able to field a team - or to make sure nobody else misses the same game your DD will. Kids get sick/vacation/attend conflicting events often enough so that missing a couple practices/game for a good reason shouldn't be a huge problem.

..

I just want to mention that as a wife of a travel soccer coach, it is not easy to reschedule games. My DH spends hours and hours trying to rework schedules for various reasons (as a volunteer), and I think he'd be upset to have to put in all of this extra work (phone calls, emails - there are only so many fields available, and many kids play various sports during the seasons) because a parent used this as a punishment. If games are not rescheduled, the league gets fined, and he has hell to pay.

If the coach has enough players, fine, but I don't believe a punishment should punish anyone else but the guilty party.

 

[Dancemom03]

I just want to mention that as a wife of a travel soccer coach, it is not easy to reschedule games. My DH spends hours and hours trying to rework schedules for various reasons (as a volunteer), and I think he'd be upset to have to put in all of this extra work (phone calls, emails - there are only so many fields available, and many kids play various sports during the seasons) because a parent used this as a punishment. If games are not rescheduled, the league gets fined, and he has hell to pay.

If the coach has enough players, fine, but I don't believe a punishment should punish anyone else but the guilty party.

Sorry, you quoted my first post when OP hadn't said that the soccer was anything more than a casual rec council team. Before learning otherwise, I made the assumption that we were talking about a simple rec team on a nearby field since nothing more was mentioned originally. In other words, I goofed.

As the wife of a former soccer coach and mom of kids who have been members of elite leagues/teams for soccer, majorettes, dance, and now lacrosse, I know how important games played on those levels can be. Many probably couldn't be rescheduled, even if the coaches both wanted to. In my second post after learning it was an elite travel team, I corrected myself writing the following...

If I had known your DD played more than rec soccer, there's no way I'd have suggested missing practice or a game. I don't normally buy the whole 'why make the team suffer' thing but with elite sports/dance teams a higher level of committment is expected. We learned the hard way once that, when there are competitive expectations and attendance requirements, every effort needs to be made to see they're met unless you don't mind playing elsewhere the next season.