HELP me get my 6 month old to sleep! PLEASE! (update post 74)

[MistressMerryweather]

You and Tiffjoy can tell yourselves that, but co-sleeping is normally how it starts. The child gets used to co sleeping, doesn't want to change, and then the parent is stuck tryng to get a little kid to stay in their own room, a much more difficult task than getting an infant trained to sleep through the night.

Really folks, we aren't making this up. Not saying it always happens, but everybody isn't making it up just to give you a hard time.

Doesn't matter what the difficulty level is. What matters is age appropriateness. Sleep training a 6 week baby is absurd, and a 6 mos is not far behind. What you are saying is, it's easier for you, not the child.

No worries though. No need to patronize me. Y'all aren't "everybody" and much more of the world is aware of the correct age appropriateness of infant sleep habits as well as sharing our opinion in the matter. I don't go around arguing these things on a normal basis, but sometimes it's hard to let it go by.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You and Tiffjoy can tell yourselves that, but co-sleeping is normally how it starts. The child gets used to co sleeping, doesn't want to change, and then the parent is stuck tryng to get a little kid to stay in their own room, a much more difficult task than getting an infant trained to sleep through the night.

Really folks, we aren't making this up. Not saying it always happens, but everybody isn't making it up just to give you a hard time.

This is simply not true. Since when is a parent stuck? If they are then maybe they need to figure out what THEY are doing wrong. As a parent you have to figure out the best way to transition your child. Of course that only happens if the parent really WANTS to. There is no magic wand, you have to figure out what works best for your child.
As for kids not staying in their beds- I have read so many threads about people putting double baby gates up on the doorway, turning the doorknobs around etc. in their child's room here on the Dis. A lot of those parents were CIO parents and either couldn't transition their child to a bed from the crib or didn't want to get up early in the morning. I personally do not agree with those tactics. I don't use CIO and the kids stay in bed with no drama or cage doors. YMMV.

 

[jodifla]

Doesn't matter what the difficulty level is. What matters is age appropriateness. Sleep training a 6 week baby is absurd, and a 6 mos is not far behind. What you are saying is, it's easier for you, not the child.

No worries though. No need to patronize me. Y'all aren't "everybody" and much more of the world is aware of the correct age appropriateness of infant sleep habits as well as sharing our opinion in the matter. I don't go around arguing these things on a normal basis, but sometimes it's hard to let it go by.

Sleep training a young child isn't absurd. In fact, I just call it good parenting!

As I said, worked like A CHARM for us. We were the envy of all our friends with little ones, and they were all asking us for advice to break their previous habits, especially co-sleeping, which many (but not all) were sorry they ever started.

 

[justhat]

This is just a general question and not asked in judgment, but out of interest... does/has anyone here nurse? And if so, for how long?

I'm mostly curious because I know that if I didn't breastfeed my daughter at night, we would have been done nursing a long time ago, so I'm very curious to hear if anyone has done CIO and/or STTN at 4-6 months and maintained a nursing relationship.

I am nursing my youngest right now and nursed the older 2 till 21 and 22 months. Like I said earlier, my first was a bad sleeper so she night-nursed a long time. She was up anyway so whatever. My 2nd and this baby did not night-nurse past 3 months. Well, this one did when she had the cold I mentioned 3 weeks ago, but not anymore. My 2nd was 6 weeks old when he started sleeping 7 hours at a time, and by 3 months it was 12 hours at night, no wakings, so therefore no nursing. And this one was slightly older when she started longer sleep chunks, but again, by 3 months old she was sleeping nearly 12 hours straight, no night-wakings/nursing.


And I have said it before, but my 2nd did CIO periodically, but it didn't affect the nursing relationship at all.




One thing I totally don't get, why are certain CIO supporters acting as though the only way to ever get a kid from not waking overnight, sleeping soundly, etc. is through CIO? I mean the comments like "Once we did CIO my child never woke up again overnight." We didn't do CIO with my 1st and once she started sleeping overnight, she NEVER woke up. She is 6yo now and has not woken up overnight since the day she starting sleeping through the night, many, many years ago. Well no, she did get stomach bugs twice and woke up vomiting, but other than that, not one night ever. But she didn't do CIO, we used the Pantley "No Cry Sleep Solution" method.

My 2nd, the CIO baby, he does, at nearly 4yo, still wake up overnight and crawl into my bed. This didn't start till he was older, about 2 I guess, but still, he was the CIO kid and he's the one who wakes overnight. Not routinely, but at least once a week I find him in my bed. The 6yo though, like I said, hasn't been in my bed 1 night since she stopped co-sleeping with us at almost 2.5yo, (and she was sleeping through the night while cosleeping long before then).


And the transition to her own bed, like I said, she picked it out in the store, helped us build it (it was a toddler bed), and that was that. Never a qualm from her about it. We just switched story time from our bed to hers, sang to her in her bed, said goodnight and walked away. Same as when she slept in our bed, just different place. She didn't bat an eye. Basically the same idea as transitioning from crib to bed. My 2nd always slept alone, but did move from crib to bed at 20 months and it was basically the same procedure for him.

If you want to make it hard, you can, but it can be done very easily as well.

 

[jodifla]

This is simply not true. Since when is a parent stuck? If they are then maybe they need to figure out what THEY are doing wrong. As a parent you have to figure out the best way to transition your child. Of course that only happens if the parent really WANTS to. There is no magic wand, you have to figure out what works best for your child.
As for kids not staying in their beds- I have read so many threads about people putting double baby gates up on the doorway, turning the doorknobs around etc. in their child's room here on the Dis. A lot of those parents were CIO parents and either couldn't transition their child to a bed from the crib or didn't want to get up early in the morning. I personally do not agree with those tactics. I don't use CIO and the kids stay in bed with no drama or cage doors. YMMV.

Again, sleep issues are huge for many families. So while your strategies have worked for you, many people are just not that successful at it.

There are books, classes, university research projects and endless message board questions on it for a reason. For some families, it IS difficult. And largely for the same reason parents struggle when the children are infants....they have crying, hysterical, begging children, who don't understand why the rules have changed. And the parents are exhausted, and it's hard to make good decisions when you are exhausted. SO they often just give in because they are desparate for sleep, and the bad cycle continues.

When we moved into our house in Florida 20 years ago, we were surprised that the door lock was backward. A parent had to tell us why that would be!

For me, I'm glad that we didn't start anything that we didn't want to continue. And I make no apologies that I figured out how to get a decent amount of sleep when my child was young. Sleep deprivation for any lenght of time is dangerous.
They use it as a form of torture for a reason.

 

[justhat]

You and Tiffjoy can tell yourselves that, but co-sleeping is normally how it starts. The child gets used to co sleeping, doesn't want to change, and then the parent is stuck tryng to get a little kid to stay in their own room, a much more difficult task than getting an infant trained to sleep through the night.

Really folks, we aren't making this up. Not saying it always happens, but everybody isn't making it up just to give you a hard time.

Since you haven't coslept, you wouldn't know this personally. Since those who have coslept are telling you otherwise, why are you fighting it? I coslept with 1 out of 3 kids and she had no issues going to her own bed. Same way my 2nd kid had no issues moving from crib to bed at 20 months. There is really no difference.

And cosleeping kids can sleep through the night. Cosleeping does not mean they are up all night long. My older daughter coslept till 2 years, 5 months old, but was sleeping through the night long before then. She went to bed at 7:30pm, fell asleep on her own in our bed, and stayed asleep all night in our bed. When we moved her to her own bed there was zero issues.

If you have never done it, why do you have such strong opinions? In fact, I don't think I have even seen a post on these boards in the 7.5 years I have been on them about a cosleeping parent not being able to get the kid out of the bed. I have seen many posts from CIO parents claiming all their cosleeping friends had that issue, but never once did I read one from a cosleeping parent asking for advice. Not saying it hasn't happened, but clearly not as frequent as you describe if I haven't seen one in all these years.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Again, sleep issues are huge for many families. So while your strategies have worked for you, many people are just not that successful at it.

There are books, classes, university research projects and endless message board questions on it for a reason. For some families, it IS difficult. And largely for the same reason parents struggle when the children are infants....they have crying, hysterical, begging children, who don't understand why the rules have changed. And the parents are exhausted, and it's hard to make good decisions when you are exhausted. SO they often just give in because they are desparate for sleep, and the bad cycle continues.

When we moved into our house in Florida 20 years ago, we were surprised that the door lock was backward. A parent had to tell us why that would be!

For me, I'm glad that we didn't start anything that we didn't want to continue. And I make no apologies that I figured out how to get a decent amount of sleep when my child was young. Sleep deprivation for any lenght of time is dangerous.
They use it as a form of torture for a reason.

Okay- I get what you are saying but let me show it to you from a different angle. The baby isn't sleeping through the night etc. Mom is exhausted, simply cannot stand another minute awake. So the baby comes in bed with Mom. Heaven! Everyone sleeps! Mom catches up on her sleep and feels like a new person. Now that she can think clearly she can decide if she wants to continue like this or plan for transitioning the baby back to their own bed. She then slowly starts putting that plan in place all the while still getting a good night's sleep because she is slowly transitioning the child. Before you know it the child is sleeping alone and all are happy.

Many people are not successful at it because they start co-sleeping and have no idea what to do next. It seems that when someone asks for advice about it you hear screams of CIO! There is a middle ground there. It is not neccesary to use CIO to sleep train a child. If it worked for you then that is great but I personally could never ever do that and neither could my husband. Different strokes and all. I will admit that I personally think it is a horrible thing to do but again- that is my opinion.

As for all the classes, messages boards etc. on this topic, well, any parenting topic has a bazillion resources. I am sure that you don't agree with all of them on all topics and neither do I. Many of those resources are nothing more than opinions and you know what they say about opinions......

I still stand by my opinion that it is a parenting problem not a co-sleeping problem. The parents need to figure out what they want and how to achieve it. It's like potty training. Not every method works for every child and each child does it at a different age. You just have to figure your kid out.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Oh- I did want to add something. Many times a subject will come up in conversations among parents. Let's say we are talking about pacifiers. One parent will say "Yeah, my kid still uses one" and another parent will say "You need to get that kid off that pacifier!" blah blah blah. Then that parent will repeat the conversation to another friend at a later time and say "Mary says her kid still has a paci and she doesn't know what to do to get rid of it. She is at her wit's end!" The person with the strong opinion of whatever tends to turn the conversation around and make it seem like the other person is having a hard time of it. Same thing with co-sleeping. You (a general you) might hear me say I am tired. Then you will do on a diatribute about how I need to get my kids out of my bed when the reality is that I am tired because I was up really late doing PTA stuff etc. Then that same person will go and have it in their head that I can't get my kids out of my bed etc. when that is not the case at all. I think most of the time people create problems in their head where there is none. I don't understand why anyone would care where I sleep since it doesn't effect them. Yet everyone has an opinion.

 

[jodifla]

Since you haven't coslept, you wouldn't know this personally. Since those who have coslept are telling you otherwise, why are you fighting it? I coslept with 1 out of 3 kids and she had no issues going to her own bed. Same way my 2nd kid had no issues moving from crib to bed at 20 months. There is really no difference.

And cosleeping kids can sleep through the night. Cosleeping does not mean they are up all night long. My older daughter coslept till 2 years, 5 months old, but was sleeping through the night long before then. She went to bed at 7:30pm, fell asleep on her own in our bed, and stayed asleep all night in our bed. When we moved her to her own bed there was zero issues.

If you have never done it, why do you have such strong opinions? In fact, I don't think I have even seen a post on these boards in the 6.5 years I have been on them about a cosleeping parent not being able to get the kid out of the bed. I have seen many posts from CIO parents claiming all their cosleeping friends had that issue, but never once did I read one from a cosleeping parent asking for advice. Not saying it hasn't happened, but clearly not as frequent as you describe if I haven't seen one in all these years.

I've seen it plenty on the boards, and I've heard about it plenty from friends IRL. I sat next to one man who was just miserable about it. He felt the whole co-sleeping/nursing thing had taken over his life and marriage. I had another friend who started co-sleeping during a divorce, and her son was in her bed for months, because she couldn't figure out how to stop what she started. I had yet another friend who always had to lay down with her children before they would fall asleep. ANd I had the other friend who had the two hour putting to bed process.

So I decided to work on it from the get-go. ANd my experience was, it worked great. At 8, my son is a great sleeper.

We've had just a couple of rough patches.. and those were during illness, which is of course to be expected. During those times, one of us joins him in his room. When we moved, my husband made the (big mistake) of wanting him to sleep with us for a few nights. DS quickly wanted to make that habit, so I had to nip that in the bud right away. It took about 3 nights, and then it was done. Between that experience and my friend's personal sagas, it left a big impression on how quickly that could become something the child doesn't want to give up.

People who come here asking for tips on how to get their child to sleep through the night rarely are interested in co-sleeping. OP wasn't, and she said herself it was her own doing that her child wasn't learning how to sleep through the night.

 

[justhat]

I've seen it plenty on the boards, and I've heard about it plenty from friends IRL. I sat next to one man who was just miserable about it. He felt the whole co-sleeping/nursing thing had taken over his life and marriage. I had another friend who started co-sleeping during a divorce, and her son was in her bed for months, because she couldn't figure out how to stop what she started. I had yet another friend who always had to lay down with her children before they would fall asleep. ANd I had the other friend who had the two hour putting to bed process.

So I decided to work on it from the get-go. ANd my experience was, it worked great. At 8, my son is a great sleeper.

We've had just a couple of rough patches.. and those were during illness, which is of course to be expected. During those times, one of us joins him in his room. When we moved, my husband made the (big mistake) of wanting him to sleep with us for a few nights. DS quickly wanted to make that habit, so I had to nip that in the bud right away. It took about 3 nights, and then it was done. Between that experience and my friend's personal sagas, it left a big impression on how quickly that could become something the child doesn't want to give up.

People who come here asking for tips on how to get their child to sleep through the night rarely are interested in co-sleeping. OP wasn't, and she said herself it was her own doing that her child wasn't learning how to sleep through the night.

Again, not saying it hasn't come up, but I see tons of posts from CIO'ers complaining about cosleepers not leaving the bed and have yet to read one from a cosleeper begging for help. I hear your examples, but again, that is from the point of view of a CIO'er, and like MouseHouseMama said, that can be slightly exaggerated.

I am betting your divorced friend wanted her kid in the bed. She was used to sleeping with someone and was now alone. Her kid was a replacement. If she wanted him out she'd have gotten him out. She may have said "oh I wish he'd get in his own bed" cause she knows your stance on cosleeping. Or maybe to get some attention. But if she wanted him out, it would have been done.


Like your 8yo is a great sleeper, so is my 6yo, and she didn't need to CIO. My ~4yo CIO kid, he is a great sleeper too, but like I said, he does wake up from time to time and crawl into my bed.


I don't suggest cosleeping to a parent with a sleep question, but I would see no problem in offering non-CIO advice. They don't have to cry in order to sleep independently. And I say that having used that method with 1 kid. There are no-cry ways to do it, that do NOT involve cosleeping, it's not such a black and white issue.

 

[jodifla]

Oh- I did want to add something. Many times a subject will come up in conversations among parents. Let's say we are talking about pacifiers. One parent will say "Yeah, my kid still uses one" and another parent will say "You need to get that kid off that pacifier!" blah blah blah. Then that parent will repeat the conversation to another friend at a later time and say "Mary says her kid still has a paci and she doesn't know what to do to get rid of it. She is at her wit's end!" The person with the strong opinion of whatever tends to turn the conversation around and make it seem like the other person is having a hard time of it. Same thing with co-sleeping. You (a general you) might hear me say I am tired. Then you will do on a diatribute about how I need to get my kids out of my bed when the reality is that I am tired because I was up really late doing PTA stuff etc. Then that same person will go and have it in their head that I can't get my kids out of my bed etc. when that is not the case at all. I think most of the time people create problems in their head where there is none. I don't understand why anyone would care where I sleep since it doesn't effect them. Yet everyone has an opinion.

I agree that this happens, but my conversations were one on one with parents who were telling me their situations, and that they weren't happy about it. ANd not just once, but multiple times.

I think that people need to go in with their eyes wide open when they do the nursing / co-sleeping. Kind of like everything else with parenting, everything doesn't work for everybody.

If co-sleeping is a great fit for your family then that's great. As PPs have said, it works for many families around the world. Just not mine.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

In fact, I just call it good parenting!

Nice implication.

 

[badblackpug]

Okay my question for the people that sleep with their kids...Do you have to go to bed when they do? My little ones are asleep by 8pm. (BTW my 7m old sleeps through the night) There is NO WAY I am ready for bed at 8pm, I would be up @ 3am every day!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Okay my question for the people that sleep with their kids...Do you have to go to bed when they do? My little ones are asleep by 8pm. (BTW my 7m old sleeps through the night) There is NO WAY I am ready for bed at 8pm, I would be up @ 3am every day!

No. I do not have to go to bed with them. I will be honest though- if I can go to bed that early I will jump at the chance! I run from the moment my eyes open in the morning until my head hits the pillow. So- if I have nothing going on and I don't need down time I will hit the sheets. Most nights thought I don't go to bed at the same time. In fact, all my kids are sleeping and I am Dissing!

 

[badblackpug]

No. I do not have to go to bed with them. I will be honest though- if I can go to bed that early I will jump at the chance! I run from the moment my eyes open in the morning until my head hits the pillow. So- if I have nothing going on and I don't need down time I will hit the sheets. Most nights thought I don't go to bed at the same time. In fact, all my kids are sleeping and I am Dissing!

Yes, me too! but, honestly, I don't get why they sleep with you then. They are technically sleeping by themselves, but just in your bed. What is the difference between that and putting them to sleep by themselves in their own beds?

I am truly not trying to be snarky, but I truly don't understand the difference.

 

[MistressMerryweather]

No. I do not have to go to bed with them....Most nights thought I don't go to bed at the same time. In fact, all my kids are sleeping and I am Dissing!

Yeah that. I never go to bed at the same time.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Yes, me too! but, honestly, I don't get why they sleep with you then. They are technically sleeping by themselves, but just in your bed. What is the difference between that and putting them to sleep by themselves in their own beds?

I am truly not trying to be snarky, but I truly don't understand the difference.

You know, that's a good question. The kids like to sleep in our bed. I guess it is something fun for them. I also have a tv in my room! When they are infants they usually start the night out in the bassinet but when I go to bed, once they wake up I just snuggle with them. I am nursing and I like to snuggle them. As they get older sleeping in my room is a treat. They get to stay up a little later, I usually will go to bed earlier and we chat and watch shows like the Cake Boss etc. together. It's like a little special time for them. When they are young toddlers I usually will lay with them until they fall asleep which isn't that long but they outgrow that. I don't really have any issues with them going in their own beds. I just don't like CIO. I have found that it just isn't necessary.

 

[jodifla]

Nice implication.

That works on both sides and was in response to PP saying that she "parented" her child to sleep.

 

[justhat]

Yes, me too! but, honestly, I don't get why they sleep with you then. They are technically sleeping by themselves, but just in your bed. What is the difference between that and putting them to sleep by themselves in their own beds?

I am truly not trying to be snarky, but I truly don't understand the difference.

I never went to bed when my oldest did either (the one who coslept), but in her case, she slept in our bed cause she woke up overnight for awhile. We were in a 1 bedroom condo at the time she was born, so her bed was in our room anyway, but when we moved her out of the bassinet she just moved into our bed. She had a crib in the room, but she never really used it. She napped in our bed (alone, as I am not a napper ), went to bed in our bed (also alone, we never went to bed at 7:30!), but when she woke up, she's kinda look around, make sure we were still there, then go back to sleep.

When we moved we set up her new bed in her new room and she slept in it without complaint and never set foot in our beds again. In fact tonight, I forgot that my son spilled water all over her bed this afternoon and her bedding is all still in the dryer. We told her to go to sleep in our bed and she groaned but finally agreed only if we'd move her after her bed is ready. And a couple of months ago, she wasn't feeling well so I told her she could sleep with us, and halfway through the night she got up and went to her own bed. I asked her what she was doing and she said "It's too uncomfortable to sleep with you guys. I like my own bed better."

 

[rparmfamily]

Okay my question for the people that sleep with their kids...Do you have to go to bed when they do? My little ones are asleep by 8pm. (BTW my 7m old sleeps through the night) There is NO WAY I am ready for bed at 8pm, I would be up @ 3am every day!

My 12 mo old goes to bed no later than 8pm, normally 715pm. She goes to bed in her crib. Before I got the crib last month, she went to bed in the packnplay in my room. Eventually she comes in bed with us, last night was 5am and she nursed and crashed back out. Some nights DH holds her when she is sleeping and we just bring her upstairs when we go to bed, but I personally like her to go to bed before us so we can have some quiet time.

I will say that we've sort of done this with is all 3 kids (oldest is 9) and my kids are all very adaptable sleepers. They can sleep in hotels,etc no problems. We have a general schedule for sleep but no concrete schedule, no "special' blankets,etc. I just grab whatever blanket is clean to cuddle up against DD when I'm rocking her (which I don't do everynight...just depends LOL.)

I do pat backs...and that I can bring and do anywhere...we reguarly camp and travel with 12 mo old DD and I think the fact that we do cosleep has made it easier to travel with her. She doesn't expect to be in her own room in her crib. My friends who had great sleepers at home didnt have good sleepers in hotels, etc because of this (baby was used to crib, fan, quiet,etc)

Plus, what works this week might night work next...it's all about being adaptable for us.