Help!!! Did I make a mistake?

[chalee94]

I think one of the last posts made it very clear to me ... I, too, would like the freedom to use my points however I want.

well, if you've got the extra dough, suit yourself.

101 pts plus a $95 fee for one night in a hotel room? (i've been to the hotel del...it's very nice but that's crazy.) trading in RCI for timeshares that often cost only $1 upfront with maintenance fees only 50-60% of what you are paying for DVC?

everybody puts a different value on that "freedom" but take a good look at the cruise and other trade-out point charts to see what it is really costing you.

and remember that while DVC resort point charts are relatively fixed (they can be reallocated but never just raised 5% across the board), the point charts for trades are renegotiated annually and may change considerably over the course of your ownership.

One more question, as I am intrigued by this resale market, if I bought more points on the resale market can I combine them? I vaguely recall reading that they can't be combined for certain things?

not sure anyone has tested it out, but i would expect that you would not be able to combine resale pts with direct pts for external trades like cruises or the poly.

if you buy resale at AKV with the same UY month and it is titled the same, you can combine the resale pts with the direct pts to book AKV at 11 months out. if you buy a different home resort, you can combine the pts at 7 months but not before that. if you buy a different UY month, they cannot be combined under the same member number and it gets more complicated.

 

[crisi]

You won't be scammed, but make sure that you are buying what they are contacted to give you, and not the bells and whistles that have been known to change. When we joined, the trading company was II, not RCI.

We have a whole 150 points...because we are not Disney every year people. We are Disney every other year in a two bedroom where our kids get their own space people. In the off years we go lots of other places...on cash, not using a timeshare at all (although we often end up in timeshare units on cash). Cash gives us a ton of flexibility, the ability to take advantages of great travel deals, the ability to travel on short notice, and to go where we want.

We find our DVC to be a good value...it's one of the best ways to stay ON SITE in a Multi room unit for an reasonable price for the every other year trip we take. But I would not buy again. We bought years ago resale for a fairly small amount of money, and knowing what I know now, I wouldn't bother to get stuck with a timeshare. This years trip is a wonderful example of why not...having skipped last year (and gone to Maui and Washington DC as our vacations) we are in a use them or loose them position on points. My brother In law was very ill and died recently...now we have a trip scheduled that we'd rather skip, my husband used his vacation time to spend with his brother and no one is in the mood...and can't turn the points into anything else before they expire.

 

[cz4ever]

Thank you all for your replies. This has really been helpful and I appreciate all of your opinions.

That being said, I locked into a price last friday and am STILL waiting for my fedex'ed contract. SO my 10 days hasn't even begun and that's why I "didn't skip over the MF portion of my contract." I will read it thoroughly and I'm sure I will have a greater understanding of everything.

I think one of the last posts made it very clear to me ... I, too, would like the freedom to use my points however I want. If I am doing this, then I am going for it and want no restrictions. We had the money in a vacation fund, and from what I gather, after three trips (Spending like we normally spend) we will break even and still have 40+ years of trips to take!

I also don't like to be scammed, which is my hestiation. Don't mess with a consumer protection attorney!

One more question, as I am intrigued by this resale market, if I bought more points on the resale market can I combine them? I vaguely recall reading that they can't be combined for certain things?

Congrats! Sounds like you have basically made up your mind, and I'm sure you'll enjoy your year's of WDW vacations!

That said, the point that many people have been trying to make regarding direct-vs-resale is that the benefit of being able to use your points for other Disney activities (cruises, Adventures by Disney, and the like) is somewhat illusory. The DVC point cost to book Disney cruises and the like is generally (very) overpriced compared to what you could get if you "rent" your points out and use the cash to book direct. You can "rent" your DVC points easily for $10/point (there are entire forums here and elsewhere dedicated to discussion of renting DVC points). So if a trade costs 100 points, that's equivalent to $1000. Keep that in mind when deciding if a particular trade price is reasonable. Also, the only options you lose by buying direct are directly using the points for Disney Cruises, Adventures by Disney, and the other (non-DVC) Disney hotels. Your trading rights for non-DVC timeshares (RCI and the like) are identical whether you buy direct or resale.

 

[cz4ever]

We find our DVC to be a good value...it's one of the best ways to stay ON SITE in a Multi room unit for an reasonable price for the every other year trip we take. But I would not buy again. We bought years ago resale for a fairly small amount of money, and knowing what I know now, I wouldn't bother to get stuck with a timeshare. This years trip is a wonderful example of why not...having skipped last year (and gone to Maui and Washington DC as our vacations) we are in a use them or loose them position on points. My brother In law was very ill and died recently...now we have a trip scheduled that we'd rather skip, my husband used his vacation time to spend with his brother and no one is in the mood...and can't turn the points into anything else before they expire.

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. That's sad to read.

As to your dilemma, why not rent your points out, either directly or via one of the services that will do it for you (in return for a cut)? I realize that it's not something that everybody wants to get into, but if your points have at least a bit of time before they expire, it's fairly painless from what I've read (not done it myself).

 

[crisi]

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. That's sad to read.

As to your dilemma, why not rent your points out, either directly or via one of the services that will do it for you (in return for a cut)? I realize that it's not something that everybody wants to get into, but if your points have at least a bit of time before they expire, it's fairly painless from what I've read (not done it myself).

Not something I want to do. It isn't the money, it's the commitment to a trip at this time, if that makes sense. Renting the points would cause the same emotional turmoil. Renting the points takes care of the money, which isn't the problem. The problem is the very existence of the trip...and it's existence is still there even if we cancel it.and cancelling it will have one effect we are trying to avoid, letting their uncles death affect our kids in ways it doesnt need to (they know its the disney year) Had we not had the points, we have not bothered to schedule any vacation at all this year and been in wait and see mode. No issue with the kids because nothing would have been on the table this year.

And I rally don't want the liability. Nevr say never, but I'd need to be in a tight spot before I'd take that risk

 

[cz4ever]

Not something I want to do. It isn't the money, it's the commitment to a trip at this time, if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. Best of luck working through this trying time. Protecting the kids makes a lot of sense under the circumstances.

 

[ELMC]

I think one of the last posts made it very clear to me ... I, too, would like the freedom to use my points however I want. If I am doing this, then I am going for it and want no restrictions.

There are a lot of people who feel this way. Although it's not something I agree with, it certainly is your (and their) option. Just know that you are paying for convenience when you do this. If that's ok with you, cool.

We had the money in a vacation fund, and from what I gather, after three trips (Spending like we normally spend) we will break even and still have 40+ years of trips to take!

I am curious how you arrived at these calculations. Typically, DVC salespeople will tell you that the break even point for a DVC purchase is in the neighborhood of 8 years.

 

[JimMIA]

You're spending $15,000+ on something you aren't sure how it works!

I did too (actually a lot more than $15K), and I'm quite sure I'm not alone. And that was after coming home from WDW, researching on the DIS for about six weeks!

I was able to learn enough to buy resale, but I really only had limited knowledge of the nuts and bolts of how DVC ownership works when I bought.

I don't know about everyone else, but I suspect most of us learned most of what we know AFTER buying.

 

[ELMC]

I think one of the last posts made it very clear to me ... I, too, would like the freedom to use my points however I want. If I am doing this, then I am going for it and want no restrictions.

I'm wondering if you are looking for opinions or support at this point. Are you looking for advice on what you should do, or advice on how to get the most benefit from a membership that you have decided to keep?

 

[ELMC]

I am happy with my direct purchase of AKL (280 points a year; paid in full immediately like you; absolutely does not make any sense to me to finance this) because now that the major part of the money is spent I can go on incredible vacations without having to use actual cash 'yearly' for my accommodations.

I'm glad that you are happy with your direct purchase and for some people like yourself, having the flexibility to use your points for cruises and the like is worth it, even if it is not the "most economical" use of points. Some people like me can't get past the thought of not maximizing the value of every single point, and that is probably why I ended up buying resale.

 

[DougEMG]

So my question for you is, did any of the posts that gave advice contrary to yours have any appreciable effect on you, or were they exercises in futility?

ELMC, it's not an exercise in futility as I'm sure there are lurkers reading this thread that will take what has been said and make use of that information to help them make their decision. I know that's what I use to do.

At the end of the day, everyone is free to do whatever they want with their money. Personally I don't really care how you spend your money as it doesn't effect me.

If someone makes a decision to buy DVC that then doesn't work out because they didn't know what they were buying, maybe there will be a good deal on a resale one day and we can help then by taking it off their hands

 

[GOOFY D]

Here's the deal. You worked for the money. You saved the money. It's your money. If you want to spend it on a frivolous luxury purchase, that is completely your right. But please just admit that's what your doing instead of coming on here and posting a bunch of erroneous facts that you are using to justify your purchase. It would be a lot more comforting if you said "hey, we don't know what we're doing but it looks like a great idea and it sounds like fun so we're going for it!" It's what you're doing, it would just be nice if you realized that.

Sorry, but I have read through this thread and have to wonder why you are so condescending to those looking for information. You posted one informative, detailed post, but you seem to want to get a point across that, on words alone, appear almost mean, but certainly condescending. You appear very informed and very knowledgeable and many of us come here as newbies for information, not a beat down. You have offered great information and I have learned alot, but the tone is a little harsh IMO. Just my $0.02.

 

[crisi]

There are a lot of people who feel this way. Although it's not something I agree with, it certainly is your (and their) option. Just know that you are paying for convenience when you do this. If that's ok with you, cool.

And then the question becomes - why not use cash? If saving money isn't important and maximizing flexibility is the most important criteria, nothing is more flexible than cash. Its easy to get timeshare units all over the world for cash, often at heavy discounts, although that isn't the most important criteria - DVC points are easily rentable if you don't want to use CRO to get your room. Cash is far more flexible for cruising, DCL only releases a small amount of rooms for cruising on points, and a year or two ago it was nearly impossible to cruise on points when there were plenty of cash rooms available.

 

[GOOFY D]

And then the question becomes - why not use cash? If saving money isn't important and maximizing flexibility is the most important criteria, nothing is more flexible than cash. Its easy to get timeshare units all over the world for cash, often at heavy discounts, although that isn't the most important criteria - DVC points are easily rentable if you don't want to use CRO to get your room. Cash is far more flexible for cruising, DCL only releases a small amount of rooms for cruising on points, and a year or two ago it was nearly impossible to cruise on points when there were plenty of cash rooms available.

Is there any risk with renting out points? What if the user of the points damages the room or does something detrimental. Are you, as the point holder/owner, liable for the costs/problems?

 

[vicki_c]

Is there any risk with renting out points? What if the user of the points damages the room or does something detrimental. Are you, as the point holder/owner, liable for the costs/problems?

Yes - there have been cases with owners having their accounts frozen due to problems caused by a guest - not many, but some. You are liable if they trash the room in some way, leave an unpaid bill, etc.

 

[disneynutz]

So here's what you did. You asked for advice, and then sifted through the now dozens of posts which, for the most part, advised you to cancel your contract and learn about what you are buying, until you found the post that supported your thinking. And now you're using that one post to justify your purchase. So my question for you is, did any of the posts that gave advice contrary to yours have any appreciable effect on you, or were they exercises in futility?

I think that as humans, we are programed this way.

I can tell my family not to vacation at WDW in August because they will be hot and sweaty, and guess what, they go in August and complain because they were hot and sweaty.

Many of us need to learn from our own experiences.

Bill

 

[ELMC]

Sorry, but I have read through this thread and have to wonder why you are so condescending to those looking for information. You posted one informative, detailed post, but you seem to want to get a point across that, on words alone, appear almost mean, but certainly condescending. You appear very informed and very knowledgeable and many of us come here as newbies for information, not a beat down. You have offered great information and I have learned alot, but the tone is a little harsh IMO. Just my $0.02.

I appreciate your saying this and I have to say that I agree. I suppose I did let myself get a little frustrated and that wasn't a good thing. My intention is to help, and I've gone back and edited my posts to try to communicate my thoughts without being condescending. My original (and possibly obnoxious) remarks will live on forever in the posts of those who have quoted me.

Sorry all.

 

[cz4ever]

Is there any risk with renting out points? What if the user of the points damages the room or does something detrimental. Are you, as the point holder/owner, liable for the costs/problems?

Note: This answer is based on what I have gleaned from these and other Disney-related boards -- I have not personally reviewed the DVC legal contracts regarding liability. But I believe it to be true and accurate.

Ultimately, yes, you as the owner of the unit are responsible for any damages that your tenant incurs. Renters are required to put down a valid credit card at the time they check in and Disney will go after them (and their credit card) first if they damage the room. But if that avenue does not work, Disney has the right to come back to you as the owner for compensation. So, yes, there is a risk.

That said, the overwhelming experience reported on these and other boards is that the risk is very low and can be mitigated somewhat with due diligence during the rental process and an appropriate contract.

I do not recall offhand whether 3rd party brokers who will rent on your behalf provide any liability protection.

 

[k3chantal]

Actually, the major part of the money hasn't been spent yet. Your purchase price only accounts for a small percentage of your overall vacation costs. You still have to pay for travel, food, park tickets, and maintenance fees. Maintenance fees which, by the way, project out to be close to ten times your initial buy in cost.

You're right, the cost to travel, food, tickets, etc....definitely does have to be factored in. That' why I don't think going on a cruise is such a 'bad' way to spend your points. Not only do you get the accommodations when you cruise; your food and entertainment is in the price. (of course you can spend more but you don't have to).

That's not entirely true, because you are ignoring the fact that you had to put down roughly $28,000 up front for the right to save this money on an annual basis. You need to find a way to account for this one time cash outlay in your calculations.


As maintenance fees increase, they will be more expensive to stay using points as well.

Again, you are ignoring the $28,000ish dollars that you had to pay up front.

I feel I can 'ignore' the money I spent 'up front'; it is exactly that 'spent'. I don't have to ever come up with it again and it was painless at the time I spent it. So yes, I guess I could waste my time and figure it into the costs of my past, current and future vacations but it is irrelevant because it is spent and not a number I must factor in again to figure out if I can afford to take the vacation.

This is the best part of your entire post, by far, and it supports what I've been saying about buying direct all this time. It may not be the best way to get monetary value out of your points, but there is a value to it. Some people enjoy the convenience of being able to book a cruise using their points instead of going to WDW for that year. That's wonderful and it's a great option to have. There's nothing wrong with that because your priorities (convenience and flexibility) are different from my priorities (savings and maximization of resources). It's refreshing to hear direct purchasers say "it may not be the best value for my points but I enjoy the way I'm using it".

I think you have summed it up the best out of all the posts I have read or responded to on the subject between direct and resale. It is all about an individual's priorities. Yes, convenience and flexibility wins me over consistently. People who only buy resale have a way of sometimes sounding 'superior' to those of us who have bought direct. It is refreshing to actually read that 'there is nothing wrong with that'. Phew....finally acknowledgment that resale may not be the only way........

 

[JimMIA]

To the OP:
First of all, I think it's very important that you understand that nobody here is trying to talk you OUT of buying DVC.

You titled your thread "Help! Did I make a mistake?"

The answer to that -- offered with respect and a desire to be HELPFUL, not critical -- is yes, you made a mistake. You would be way ahead of the game rescinding and reconsidering.

You may well end up buying DVC. If it fits your needs, it's a good product. But make that decision knowing most of the ins and outs, and understanding which benefits are REAL and which sales points are mirages.

Ok, I think I need to clarify a few things. For starters, my husband and I are both attorneys and we are knowledgeable about time shares and contracts etc...

The analogy I'd make is to buying a car.

Yes, you understand the contract. It says you pay $X for one-zillionth of Unit 431 or whatever at AKV, as represented by X number of points. You understand that just like you understand that your car purchase contract says you're paying $2000 down and $500 a month for 36 months for your new Fosworth Grand Conquest chariot.

But how does the computerator thingee work on that fine machine? What kind of gas mileage does it get? How does the flux modulator interact with the fuel injection system?

Did you know that you can drive that baby on any expressway -- but only 15% of the surface roads?

Did you know that the lowly purchaser who bought the same Fosworth "pre-owned" can also drive on that same 15% of the surface roads?

Will your payments go up?

You may understand the sales contract, but you clearly do not understand the product you are buying...and that is why you should rescind.

I'll give you a classic example:

We like to go all over the world, but really feel like Disney is a place we would like to call home now that we have a family. One of my good friends has travelled the world using her DVC points and that was an important aspect in our decision.

First of all, shame on you, counselor! You know what they say about a lawyer who has themselves for a client? If you understood the product, that would have been your last consideration.

But since you bring it up, let's explore that because it is important to you.

I also didn't think resale was the way to go b/c I read that you can't use your DVC to travel to non disney resorts if you bought on the resale. (?)

And this is related.

Okay, here's what you need to know about using DVC points for any type of non-DVC stays.

One -- like just about any timeshare, using the timeshare within its internal system always gives the best value. Go outside, you pay more for less...sometimes paying through the nose.

Two, and very important -- you DO realize that resale purchasers can also use their points through RCI...right??? The "restricted" uses are mostly REALLY poor value options.

Three, also very important -- you DO realize that the non-DVC uses of points are NOT guaranteed to ANY purchaser, direct or resale...right??? Trust me they're not. Non-DVC benefits can be, and have been, changed or eliminated with one swipe of the Mouse's pen.

With that background, let's look at "traveling the world" with RCI through DVC.

Currently, DVC exchanges through a corporate membership in RCI. That is a critical distinction which means that YOU do not have an individual membership in RCI and can't do anything on your own. You have to go through DVC Member Services, and you don't get any of the substantial benefits of individual RCI membership. (I'm going to ignore those for the moment, because they don't apply to DVC, but they are good benefits.)

So, tell me about RCI, you say. Okay, if you go to RCI's website you'll see an exaggerated claim of 6,500+ resorts worldwide. WOW -- how cool is that?

Now, real-world, there is a lot of double-counting in that number. The actual number is something around 4,000. Still pretty impressive.

So...as a DVC owner, I can book vacations at 4,000 RCI resorts worldwide? Uh...not exactly.

Actually, you have access to a little less than 600 last time I looked. So you do have some indirect access to RCI -- but only to about 15% of RCI.

And...Disney can take that away at any time, regardless of how you purchase. They're with RCI now, used to be with Interval International (II), RCI before that. These things change.

What do other systems like Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, Sheraton, Bluegreen, etc offer? Is it better? Or not as good? If timeshare exchanges are important to you, you should know the answer.

That's just one example.

*****
Ah, but if you buy direct you can use your points for Disney Cruise Lines!

Yes you can, but are you aware that just last year, DVC members were blacked out of DCL for about 10-11 MONTHS?

And again, critically important -- that benefit can be changed or eliminated with zero notice at any time.

*****
Do your research, counselor. You wouldn't spend $15,000 of a client's money and be unprepared. Do your research.