Heartbreaking news...a big reminder to be aware of wildlife on property

[MariMama]

People do not read signs. I'm not being flip when I say this - we have signs up at our business that states our hours in bold, clearly at the person's eye-line when they reach the door. It never fails, 20 people a day will pull on the lobby door, not bother to read the sign, walk to the other side of the building to the other main entrance, pull on that door, ignore that sign, and walk away muttering to themselves about the fact that we are not open. Our business has been open for 50 years, the hours don't change and we live in a town of 15,000 people - by the numbers, every single person MUST have pulled on that doors at least once, yet it still happens every single day. Because the signs - even clearly visible - do not register because they want something and they want it on their timetable.

This is a tragedy, but let's not think a sign would make a difference to the outcome. I am very much landlocked but I know to be on the lookout for snakes and alligators when we vacation in Florida, just as I knew to be on the lookout for bears when we were in Alaska. A sign stating the obvious would not deter anyone because it would just be background noise that the average vacationer would not pay attention to.

How many of us have stood and read all of Disney's rules and warnings at every posted location? Anyone? Anyone?

We cannot build a bubble around every dangerous thing in this world - warning labels and signs are strictly there to keep lawsuits to a minimum. Common sense has to come into play the vast majority of the time and when it doesn't, these tragic accidents are blown up all over the place. I am heartbroken for this family - they are experiencing something that no family should ever have to go through and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives, but I also don't think Disney was negligent. I am sure that no sign would have changed this horrific outcome.

I know this post is from 30+ pages ago, but I had to quote it to give you an AMEN.

 

[nandm92574]

You are certainly entitled to an opinion, but thank goodness people like you are not responsible for making laws (though I do cringe that people like you are part of a jury pool.) You are creating an illogical and impossible standard. Alligators are the topic of the day and, in your mind, visitors should have been warned, educated and access to water idiot-proofed. All of this despite the fact that the incident was the first of its kind on Disney property and is rare overall. It was a freak incident. Yet you continue to ignore that there are countless risks and that for any company to adequately warn is simply not practical (nor required by law.)

Throwing around words like "negligent" underscores your lack of rationale and logic. Take some time to read Florida law on the subject of wild animals and you will see that your conclusion of negligence is not supported. http://www.leagle.com/decision/1986839487So2d352_1752/PALUMBO v. GAME & FRESH WATER FISH COM'N

From the case:

"The law of Florida does not require the owner or possessor of land to anticipate the presence of or to guard an invitee or trespasser against harm from wild animals unless one of two conditions exists: the animal has been reduced to possession, or the animal is not indigenous to the locality but has been introduced onto the premises. Appellees had not reduced the alligator to possession before the attack, and since alligators are indigenous to Florida, appellees were not required to have the alligator under dominion and control."

Case law is very fact specific. I am sure that you may want to research strict liability and attractive nuisance and invitee liability. You have differing facts here such as movie nights, smore time etc. not the same

 

[jknc]

Good for you!!!!!!!!

So did I.

Not everyone will know to. No reason to oppose placing signs there that will educate them, right??

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They should place more appropriate signage along all bodies of water and I am sure they will.

But it absolutely won't keep people from entering the waters.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Boski]

We are not talking about a multitude of random dangers; we are talking about alligators.

But you are more likely to die from a Bee/Wasp than a alligator.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

They should have warned about the alligators. My point was, people going to Disney are not going camping in the wilderness of Canada, they are not touring a remote canyon, they are not in the African jungle. They are in Disney. Education about alligators would have been helpful. An alligator sign would have been helpful. A laminated folder about alligators near water, on the table, in the room, would have been helpful also. BECAUSE, then the parents would have been armed with the knowledge to keep their children safe.

Floridians know how to behave because they deal with their pets being stolen, as a wildlife person from Florida on tv said, 'every day'. Pets get killed by alligators every day, but it doesn't get publicized because it's not a human. Floridians see alligators in their backyard, every day, on the golf course, near water, wherever. Visitors from Nebraska do not.

They didn't know there were alligators where their baby was playing. If they did, I am fairly certain that they wouldn't have been out in a dangerous area, at night. Disney was wrong not to warn them about alligators near, and within, their property.

I find it curious that you want to make it seem like these people were less than careful, even stupid. They lost their child in the worst possible way. No one in their right mind would let that happen if they knew better. They didn't know better, and I do blame Disney for that.

And Disney is in FL, which FL is a southern State. What souhthern State doesn't have gators? As I have said, Fl is infamous for them. Guests just choose to be in denial about Disney having them

 

[snoopboop]

Good for you!!!!!!!!

So did I.

Not everyone will know to. No reason to oppose placing signs there that will educate them, right??

I think the only argument against placing additional/modified signs, besides the argument that people should know better already (and it's clearly been demonstrated in this thread that a whole lot of people don't know better already), is that if Disney lists specific dangers on a sign, there will certainly come a time when someone is injured by something not specifically listed on the sign, and once again Disney will be blamed for not warning about that particular danger. As many others in this thread have asked - Where is the line drawn? I don't know the answer to that....

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They should place more appropriate signage along all bodies of water and I am sure they will.

But it absolutely won't keep people from entering the waters.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It won't keep everyone from entering the waters. But one can certainly imagine that it will prevent some. Worth it.

 

[margot31]

How about we all agree to disagree? It was a tragic event.

The good part I see out of this is the family gets to take their little boy home and give him a proper burial and be close to family.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think the only argument against placing additional/modified signs, besides the argument that people should know better already (and it's clearly been demonstrated in this thread that a whole lot of people don't know better already), is that if Disney lists specific dangers on a sign, there will certainly come a time when someone is injured by something not specifically listed on the sign, and once again Disney will be blamed for not warning about that particular danger. As many others in this thread have asked - Where is the line drawn? I don't know the answer to that....

Let's not over complicate. A sign that said something like "BEWARE: dangerous wildlife like alligators live in this lake".

Like I said many pages back, make it a WARNING vs the polite little "no swimming please" REQUEST that connotes only a rule.

 

[nandm92574]

Why do they keep putting up those pesky highway signs letting me know the speed limit? I have a general idea when I am going too fast and I research where I am driving so I know. Seriously. Kids, water, beach, movie, fireworks. Doesn't really require a big leap to put up a warning gators and other wildlife sign.

 

[jknc]

It won't keep everyone from entering the waters. But one can certainly imagine that it will prevent some. Worth it.

I honestly do not know if anyone has been killed by a lightning strike on Disney property.

I hope it has not happened but if it has there needs to be signage all over property warning of the dangers of lightning during the frequent afternoon thunderstorms.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I think that minimum standards would be to warn people not to approach water/water lines at dusk/dark because *there may be alligators* present. It is the resorts responsibility to make this known when they regularly remove alligators from their property. It's really not involved or difficult.

Yes, I have said a sign with a gator on and Do not enter water...but to "educate" and list all wildlife dangers is just not Disney's responsibility.

 

[snoopboop]

Let's not over complicate. A sign that said something like "BEWARE: dangerous wildlife like alligators live in this lake".

Like I said many pages back, make it a WARNING vs the polite little "no swimming please" REQUEST that connotes only a rule.

Well, there are dangers other than wildlife. Bacteria in the water, those awful brain-eating amoebas, sharp rocks, debris.... How can Disney adequately warn of all potential dangers in a concise manner?

I understand your assertion that it's overcomplicating the issue. But, really, from a legal standpoint, I can understand the argument that warning against specific potential dangers opens up the possibility of someone arguing that the sign implies that those are the ONLY dangers.

As I've said already in this thread, it's a lose-lose. For everyone. One can only hope that this incident has brought new insight to thousands of future Disney guests who might not have otherwise realized the dangers of Florida wildlife, even in the Disney cocoon.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I honestly do not know if anyone has been killed by a lightning strike on Disney property.

I hope it has not happened but if it has there needs to be signage all over property warning of the dangers of lightning during the frequent afternoon thunderstorms.

This is just silly.

Everyone knows that lightning can be dangerous. If you're outdoors ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD this is a risk.

CLEARLY not everyone knows that the little zero entry "beaches" that Disney draws guests to day and night have multiple alligators roaming possibly just feet away.

THAT people might not know. Pretty sure they're aware of lightning, bees, and all the other false equivalences mentioned here.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I honestly do not know if anyone has been killed by a lightning strike on Disney property.

I hope it has not happened but if it has there needs to be signage all over property warning of the dangers of lightning during the frequent afternoon thunderstorms.

You don't need to be in waters to be killed, not at all. A young boy, 11 was killed on football field 2 or 3 years ago by me. A high school boy on a football field by me back in early 90s. Water no where around.
No, Disney does not have to put signs up. Do the shopping centers in FL need to tell you, what about the restaurants? It's mother nature, you're responsible for keeping up with that....not private property's responsibility to warn you of lightning dangers

 

[CandleontheWater]

I think that knowing exactly where the attack took place will help us to understand the attack and put the danger into context. Alligator attacks on people are extraordinarily rare, alligators coming up onto land to grab children on the shoreline are even rarer. If the child was in the water, even 1 foot of water, the attack would make more sense from a biological perspective, because alligators are water predators. They are fast and strong on land, but it is much more difficult for them to attack on land and drag to the water than it is to attack in their natural habitat.

I'm thinking Disney didn't have signs warning specifically of alligators because there is such a tiny chance of it occurring, not because they wanted to mislead guests or break the magic. Really, your children should be safe if they play by the water, or dip their toes in, or fill up buckets for sandcastles, because alligators dragging children into the water from the shoreline is such a freak occurrence, like getting struck by lightning on a clear day. You will certainly be safe sitting on a lounge chair or hammock or watching the nightly movie dozens of feet from the shoreline. Sure, we've all heard of dogs getting snatched by alligators, but even that is pretty rare, and it makes more sense, because small 4 legged mammals are part of an alligators prey profile (like raccoons or rabbits), people are not part of an alligators typical prey.

None of this will make any difference to the family, and my heart goes out to them, but I hope that this crazy, completely rare occurrence does not lead to some giant over reaction by Disney. I hope that the beaches are still accessible, that fireworks can still be watched, and movies will still be shown. I come from this with a healthy respect for alligators and Florida's other dangerous wildlife. I worked as an archaeologist in Florida for 15 years and spent all that time in wild natural areas where I came into contact with poisonous snakes and alligators frequently. The best thing you can do is keep your eyes open and be aware of your surroundings, with a little vigilance we can still enjoy everything that Florida has to offer.

 

[jknc]

This is just silly.

Everyone knows that lightning can be dangerous. If you're outdoors ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD this is a risk.

CLEARLY not everyone knows that the little zero entry "beaches" that Disney draws guests to say and night have multiple alligators roaming possibly just feet away.

THAT people might not know. Pretty sure they're aware of lightning, bees, and all the other false equivalence a mentioned here.

False.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

False.

Lol! Ok.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Why do they keep putting up those pesky highway signs letting me know the speed limit? I have a general idea when I am going too fast and I research where I am driving so I know. Seriously. Kids, water, beach, movie, fireworks. Doesn't really require a big leap to put up a warning gators and other wildlife sign.

Yeah, and for some reason so many people don't adhere to those pesky speed limit signs, especially in Disney lol they think Disney doesn't have LEO to dole out tickets...but they do

 

[belac]

As a parent I have no words, there is nothing but grief that we feel for them and the baby. I can't imagine the horror and just so very sorry and heartbroken for them.
Also as a parent, I think yes a sign of "Alligator Warning" would have kept me off that beach and very away from the water. By my profession, I know that water isn't safe for other than Alligators reasons, so my family wouldn't be in it, but even if I didn't know, an "Alligator Warning" sign (if there would have been one) would have kept us much further away and possibly not in that area at all.
Hindsight is 20/20, and that is just it. There was a time where people did all sorts of seemingly normal things, then a tragedy happens, and warnings (children in cars, car seats should't be in the front, ect..), codes, rules, regulations and laws prevent that from possibly happening again.
Some would adhere to the warning some not, but at least those that would, would have been warned.

In 30+ years of visiting WDW, I never gave wildlife a second thought, unless it was pointed out to me. It has been pointed out when we stayed at WL a couple of times. We did wander to the little beach (yes years ago) and CM warned us of gators. They saw a snake once and CM warned us. Then it gets filed away and forgotten about till the next warning. So perminant signs; yes a good idea.