HD/Blu Ray Camcorder Questions- HELP!

There is a blu-ray camcoder, and it is best to stay away right now:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Hitachi-DZ-BD7HA-Camcorder-Review-33581.htm

And before commiting to HD-DVD or blu-ray, Blockbuster should give you a hint as to the future: they see video downloads as their future, with a reduced/no need for stores. They even bought a movie download serivce. Americans already prefer their DVRs to anything else. If all this continues, then HD discs may have a small future (they'll be around, just won't dominate).

I personally still prefer HDV (tape). It's at least archivable, and can be transferrred to any dominant format in the future.
 
OK, I got the format thing down, now- questions- What is the benefit of buying an HD/blu ray camcorder- if he cannot burn the cd to watch his video without investing several hundred to get the correct burner?

Well, the simple answer to this was brought up in your first post. Something about liking to have cutting edge technology :).

Also, lots of people can now hook up their computers to their HDTV's OR you can watch the raw HD footage right out of the camera. I'm also not sure that you cant edit stuff then 'reload' it to a tape or harddrive camera and play it that way. Now that last part I do NOT know if that's possible or not. But I do know the other 2 (hooking computer up or playing straight from camera) are for sure both possible.

LOL, now that brings up one more thing, that's assuming your computer is set up with the proper video card and stuff to output the HD signal :)

See, so much fun on this newer stuff :). I personally still feel like I did in my first post (think it was my first one). That is to get him involved in the purchase somehow. I'm a geek. Just built my new computer, has a top of the line video card, TV tuner, etc, have it hooked up to my HDTV for just this reason (Canon HV20 HD vid camera). Using Vista and the media center built into it, it's just slick to be able to watch all my edited HD video right off the computer on my 52" HD TV :goodvibes :love:
 
There is a blu-ray camcoder, and it is best to stay away right now:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Hitachi-DZ-BD7HA-Camcorder-Review-33581.htm

And before commiting to HD-DVD or blu-ray, Blockbuster should give you a hint as to the future: they see video downloads as their future, with a reduced/no need for stores. They even bought a movie download serivce. Americans already prefer their DVRs to anything else. If all this continues, then HD discs may have a small future (they'll be around, just won't dominate).

I personally still prefer HDV (tape). It's at least archivable, and can be transferrred to any dominant format in the future.

Wow, yea, run from that one, although I guess someone needed to start something. Not a very good review at all. When your shiny new $1600 camera gets compared to $300 cameras, that's a bad thing.

And this statement amazed me, I had no idea companies still did this..
Hitachi supplies the shooter with a thin battery-shaped DC adapter that fits in — you guessed it — the battery chamber. You cannot charge the battery while the camcorder is plugged into the external power source
 

I would not buy something that wasn't either 1280x720 or 1920x1080

I think it would be a mistake to ignore the large number of very good HD camcorders, which shoot in 1440x01080. That's pretty much the standard for HDV shooting. It scales nicely to 1920x1080 with the replication of every 3rd horizontal pixel or to 1280x720 by dropping every 9th horizontal pixel. In quality tests I've seen, there is a much larger difference in image quality between 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 camcorders associated with sensors (3x vs 1x), lenses, codecs and bitrates. I certainly can't see any advantage of 1280x720 over 1440x1080, except maybe smaller file sizes.

In general, I think the 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 debate is about as meaningful as the 6mp vs 8mp debate was. There is a theoretical difference, but it's not something that you'll notice in real world usage.


As for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate, I would ignore it for camcorders. There aren't any camcorders that capture directly to either format that you actually want. Besides, just about anyone serious enough to drop $1,000 on an HD camcorder is likely to also be serious enough to at least minimally edit their footage. If that's the cast, then the capture and playback formats need not be the same.

At the moment HDV and AVCHD are the two dominant HD video formats. AVCHD has some theoretical advantages but so far the HDV camcorders seem to have better real world performance. Honestly, neither are perfect but both are serviceable. AVCHD will put higher demands on a typical computer today.

As a word of caution, I use a beefy computer (quad core, 4 gig of RAM, RAID 0 drives) and I am amazed at how long encoding HD takes on it. With some basic processing, you can easily be looking at 6 to 1 or longer for encoding time vs playback time. I do my shooting in HD and do most of my rendering to SD DVD for now. I'll still have the HD footage when I want to go back and play with it later. For now, I'm usually more interested in the shorter rendering time and in the ease of universal DVD distribution.
 
I just bought a Aiptek A-HD for $120. for the price, pretty nice 720P. :)

I wouldn't even rule out 720P camcorders. MPEG compression annoys me more than resolution.
 
First of all I have a Sony HDR-HC3 and I love it. It is a mini-dv hd camera. I wouldn't recommend Sony if your son is a huge techie, unless he wants to buy just Sony products. Sony has a bad habit of making all of their equipment proprietery, which means buy Sony use Sony(to a certain point).

I recently purchased an adapter for my Sony that allows me to attach an external microphone of my choice that uses an 1/8" plug.

I do love my camera and there are several cameras to choose from:

Sony HDR-HC3
Sony HDR-HC5
Sony HDR-HC5E
Sony HDR-HC7E
Canon HV10
Canon HV20

I have recommended mini-dv cameras because I don't like the HDD cameras because of space limitations(especially if on vacation) and I don't like the direct to DVD cameras because most you can't edit any of the video.

As for video editing software I would recommend Cyberlink Power Director 6, tons of features but easy to use. Or Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 11 both are equally as good, so your choice(Pinnacle is just a tad more expensive).

And last but not least, the Blu-ray burner they range in price but start around $500 so if he doesn't care if the videos are high quality then skip the burner for now. If you do go with a tape based camera, if or when he gets a Blu-ray burner he can then burn the tapes onto disk in hi-def.
 
I think it would be a mistake to ignore the large number of very good HD camcorders, which shoot in 1440x01080. That's pretty much the standard for HDV shooting. It scales nicely to 1920x1080 with the replication of every 3rd horizontal pixel or to 1280x720 by dropping every 9th horizontal pixel. In quality tests I've seen, there is a much larger difference in image quality between 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 camcorders associated with sensors (3x vs 1x), lenses, codecs and bitrates. I certainly can't see any advantage of 1280x720 over 1440x1080, except maybe smaller file sizes.

In general, I think the 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 debate is about as meaningful as the 6mp vs 8mp debate was. There is a theoretical difference, but it's not something that you'll notice in real world usage.
I agree mostly - but the fact remains, only 1280x720 and 1920x1080 are "correct" high-definition resolutions. (Unlike digital cameras, where there is no standard size.) I personally would rather wait until 1920x1080 ones become more or less standard (in the same way that 1080P televisions are finally becoming pretty common) rather than getting an in-between solution. Similarly, a lot of nice TVs have 1366x768 resolution - but I wouldn't buy one.

1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i I would suspect, 1440x1080p would be better but again you're getting a stretched image. Imagine if a DSLR was released with an oddball resolution like that. :)

As for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate, I would ignore it for camcorders. There aren't any camcorders that capture directly to either format that you actually want. Besides, just about anyone serious enough to drop $1,000 on an HD camcorder is likely to also be serious enough to at least minimally edit their footage. If that's the cast, then the capture and playback formats need not be the same.
I agree 100%. Forget that terminology completely when shopping for a high-def camcorder.

And as I mentioned earlier, you most certainly can put high-def content on a regular DVD, just less of it. I haven't been following it very closely, but my understanding is that BluRay players are pretty good at playing back AVCHD or transport stream high-def from homemade DVDs, and I think Nero can burn an HD-DVD format onto a standard DVD (definitely not sure about this one, but I believe that's the case.) There's nothing magical about BluRay/HD-DVD discs themselves, they just hold more data.

As for downloading movies off the internet - I don't think it'll ever catch on. First off, the big killer is that would put an enormous strain on the internet itself, and the backbone carriers likely won't be happy about that. Second, you need a fast connection to even get DVD-quality video in realtime - on your end, and the host needs to have a pretty enormous pipe to handle many connections grabbing movies. Third, to get high-def content into a format that has a prayer of getting across the internet in realtime, it will need to be heavily compressed. Hardly comparable to a good BluRay with huge bitrate and a big fat DTS 7.1 soundtrack. Fourth, downloads like that are sure to be heavily DRMed and therefore ephemeral - and people like to OWN movies. Even if you could keep them, a good 1080P high-def movie can easily be 15-20 gigs. That's a ton of space even with today's large hard drives. Fifth, consumers have gotten used to nice extras, which would be a tough sell with a streamed movie.
 
I'm also not sure that you cant edit stuff then 'reload' it to a tape or harddrive camera and play it that way. Now that last part I do NOT know if that's possible or not. But I do know the other 2 (hooking computer up or playing straight from camera) are for sure both possible.

I archive all my DV movies that way. I download the footage to my computer, edit the video however I see fit. Then I burn it to DVD with menus, etc. Then I upload the video back to a DV tape for archiving.
 
What is the benefit of buying an HD/blu ray camcorder- if he cannot burn the cd to watch his video without investing several hundred to get the correct burner?

Although it is possible to capture, edit and master a disc in high definition, the whole process is still expensive.

I believe most people with a HD camcorder capture and edit in HD, then master to a standard definition DVD.

In 6-12 months HD-DVD/Blu-ray mess will get straighten out and burners will drop from the current $500.00 to something more reasonable. Then all your old movies can be re-master to HD. Shoot HD now, worry about the mastering mess later.

The cheaper alternative is to simply shoot SD and will until the whole HD ecosystem is complete and affordable.


-Paul
 
I am shooting all my videos in HD right now and I don't even have an HDTV, I will get one soon. But If I will keep all of my tapes for future recordings onto HD disk if or when I get a Blu-ray or HDDVD burner.

But for everylastbreath I wouldn't worry about anything but the camcorder for now.
 
I agree mostly - but the fact remains, only 1280x720 and 1920x1080 are "correct" high-definition resolutions. (Unlike digital cameras, where there is no standard size.) I personally would rather wait until 1920x1080 ones become more or less standard (in the same way that 1080P televisions are finally becoming pretty common) rather than getting an in-between solution. Similarly, a lot of nice TVs have 1366x768 resolution - but I wouldn't buy one.

To be clear, there is an issue with resampling, but not with stretching. Stretching implies a change in picture aspect ratio, like stretching a 4:3 image onto a 16:9 display. 1440x1080 is 16:9. It does this by using 1.33:1 aspect ratio pixels. There is no requirement that pixels need to be square rather than rectangles. So if your concern is a loss of resolution (compared with 1920x1080), I can understand. If it is a concern over resampling artifacts, I can understand that as well. If it is a concern over aspect ratio stretching, that's not an issue. It's not like the "why is everyone so fat now that I'm watching SD on a widescreen TV" syndrome.


1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i I would suspect, 1440x1080p would be better but again you're getting a stretched image. Imagine if a DSLR was released with an oddball resolution like that. :)

whether 1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i would depend on what you were shooting. If you had very little motion and a need for more detail, the extra resolution, 1.555 mp vs 0.922 mp, would favor the 1440x1080i. If you had a lot of motion and less need for detail, the progressive scanning would be superior. Many HDV camcorders support 24 and 30 fps progressive scanning modes, so you can have 1440x1080p.

Again, you're not getting a stretched image. You're getting an image with rectangular pixels instead of square pixels. You've probably been watching non-square pixels for quite a while. A lot of HD broadcast is captured in 1440x1080. You also look at non-square pixels whenever you watch an anamorphically captured DVD.

My point is that you won't see "stretching" on 1440x1080. You will see a resolution between that of 1920x1080 and 1280x720. I'd strongly recommend any of the three over a standard def camcorder. If you've grown accustomed to HD (or even well mastered DVDs for that matter), the video that you see off of even a good SD camcorder will start to look rather poor. That's especially true as TV size increases.
 
I archive all my DV movies that way. I download the footage to my computer, edit the video however I see fit. Then I burn it to DVD with menus, etc. Then I upload the video back to a DV tape for archiving.

Cool that's good to know, I 'thought' that worked at least for the tapes, but I hadnt done it myself and didnt want to mislead anyone.
 
My point is that you won't see "stretching" on 1440x1080. You will see a resolution between that of 1920x1080 and 1280x720. I'd strongly recommend any of the three over a standard def camcorder. If you've grown accustomed to HD (or even well mastered DVDs for that matter), the video that you see off of even a good SD camcorder will start to look rather poor. That's especially true as TV size increases.
I guess I didn't choose my words correctly, wouldn't be the first time. :) I understand that the aspect ratio is changed, it's the pixels that are stretched. Well, not even that - what happens is that because 1440 is 75% of 1920, when you view it on a standard 1920x1080 display device, you will get two distinct pixels then the third one is doubled. So a 1920x1080 image will give you pixels like this:
12345678
And the 1440 will give you:
12334566

This would show in diagonals that are slightly jagged. Granted, you're unlikely to notice this when we're talking about resolutions this high at 30 fps, no argument. But regardless, 1440x1080 is a temporary - well, I hate to say kludge or hack, but perhaps stopgap is a good word - 1440x1080 is a temporary stopgap until 1920x1080 camcorders become more standardized and/or more advanced chips and sensors become available for the manufacturers to use. (I kind of hope that 1080i itself will be that way, I detest interlacing with every worthless fiber of my being and the sooner everything is standardized on progressive displays, the happier I'll be!)

That being said, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from such a choice. Sometimes you need a piece of technology before it's completely matured. My first DVD player couldn't play burnt DVDs, for example, and my home theater projector is 720P (1080P projectors were about $30k at the time, if they even existed!) Since I'm in no rush for a high-def camcorder, I can afford to wait.
 
If everyone wants to pixel peep,them perhaps consumer grade camcorders are not the best choice. For $12,000 to $250,000 we can get the OP set up with a system which will meet our highest Image Quality requirements. :)

I'd be more concernd aout the entire package; sound, handling, battery life, media... pixel peeping at these levels is just usually way too insignificant.
 
Thank you everyone, because of your comments (and a review on Blu-Ray Camera) I went High Def. Got the Sony HDR SR5, seems to have good reviews and hopefully I did the right thing. Now I would like to get him some good High Def. Edit Software for his computer. Can anyone recommend something?? :confused:
 
Sony Vegas studio for HD is my next purchase $129.

If you run Media Center on vista and get a tv card with 2 tuners, I had to uninstall vegas for it to work, not sure what caused it, but just one of those FYI things.

I use Pinnacle Studio version 11 and like it a lot..
 
I bought Pinnacle Studio version 11 last night, a member of the "geek" recommended it, said it was the best and easiest to use. Fingers crossed I got everything right and my son likes everything! He's such a great kid and always puts so much thought into his gifts, I hope I did right with everything. Thanks so much for everyone on this board's help, couldn't have done it without you guys. Merry Christmas ALL!
 
I would think that would work good, I have v10 right now but I want more control over the sound and video so I think I will give the Sony product a whirl.
You made a wise decision grasshopper, Merry Christmas.
 





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