HC viewing policies and manners

[jmartinez1895]

I had a small issues come up the last time we where at EPCOt and I just wanted to ask you all for your advice and opinions should we run into this again. First let me start by saying that I know and fully understand that the HC areas for Illuminations are first come first serve. We arrived about 45 minutes prior to show time. once inside there was a woman sitting on the "first row" and had her empty baby stroller turned sideways ( to block more space) and three or four bags to her other side and then two kids almost laying down on each end; she was taking up the whole area on the front. We asked her very kindly is we could push our son ( in his special stroller) up to the rail so he could see better and she told us no, these seats are saved. About 5 minutes before the show starts here comes her group of about 7 people, one in a chair. They move all the stuff and sit down, but the problem we had was that my son could not see over them, they where all tall and even when they sat they blocked his view. He missed the first part of the show, but at least the best part ( in his opinion) is the fireworks in he sky so he could see those.
Do you think that I should have found the CM and asked him to intervene and if I did is there anything that could have been done. I always thought that it was first come first serve based on people in wheelchairs not people getting there and holding spots. I would have understood if a person was holding one or two spots while someone made a potty break or got a drink, but to hold 8 spots for 40 minutes.....anyway, I hope that this is not a problem on our upcoming trip, but I just wanted advice on how to handel this if is should come up.

 

[clanmcculloch]

I don't know policy but manners would dictate that person in mobility devices be allowed up front and able bodied people who can stand go behind their party and stand so that as many people with mobility devices as possible can get in and see the show.

 

[POOHsie]

Yes, there is a CM or two assigned to each HC viewing area for Illuminations. When I am in there, the front row is for HC people, possibly with an assistant, who would be required to sit below the view of other HC people in their chairs.

The CMs are usually at the entry to the HC area. In my case, my DD and her BF were allowed in, but against the very back of the area. Then rows formed up front for wheelchairs and ECVs. Able-bodied were all placed behind, except, as I say, someone in a WC who needed an assistant who would be sitting or kneeling on the ground. I also believe there was a limit to how many able-bodied were allowed in the area with the HC person. I think the 8 or 9 people you described were way too many able-bodied vs. HC for her group in the HC area. And they belonged in the back. However, I could be wrong on certain technicalities.

It galls me to no end what some able-bodied people will do in the HC areas to insist on getting their way, at the expense of HC people who the space is set aside for. The CMs who handle those areas have to be vigilant and tough-as-nails. It's the only thing that works. My experiences can be summarized by saying at every HC viewing area, there are always people trying every trick they can, to insert themselves into this area, tho they don't belong. The CMs are constantly running them out or pushing them to the back.

You need to get hold of the CM to assist you. Don't try to have a personal altercation with the offending person. It might lead to bad behavior and language directed at you by the other party. You must let the CM handle it. IMO, you had every right to complain.

 

[peemagg]

I know the one time that I saw Illuminations from the handicapped area, I was questioned by the CM as to my being there. I was there legitimately, but because I was not in a wheelchair or ECV (I did use one that trip, but it was back in the room, because we were only there to see Illuminations, but was using a cane), the Cm asked me about being there. It was not a problem when I showed him my cane and told him that I was indeed handicapped. We (my Mother and I) were back against the wall in the rear of the section anyways, so there was no problem with us being in the way of anyone, but we did see many who were not handicapped try to get under the ropes and the CM had to keep chasing them out. Some were not kind to the CM.

 

[KPeveler]

In general, the rule is that those with wheelchairs and scooters and other mobility devices are allowed in the front row, and (if it is crowded enough to be an issue) ONLY wheelchairs. I wish CMs would enforce that more. I don't even bother using the wheelchair viewing areas in DL for the parades anymore for this reason.

 

[SueM in MN]

Agree with the others.
The policy is for a party of no more than 6 (5 plus the person with a disability). Usually, they keep the row along the fence for guests in mobility devices and one or 2 other members of their party, who are asked to sit, kneel or crouch down, if possible so others can see around and over them.
In most cases, even if you got there 5 minutes before the show with someone who needed to stay in their mobility device, if there are more than 2 able bodied people with any disabled person along the fence, they should be asked to move by the CM. As was already posted, the intent of the viewing areas is to allow as many people with mobility devices as possible to be along the rail where they can actually see (including guests with strollers as wheelchairs).
As others mentioned, if a problem develops, go to the CM, don't try to handle it yourself. In fact, if I saw someone who looked 'camped out' in many spots along the rail, I would probable go to the CM without asking those guests to move. All you would need to say to the CM, is something like "where should we stand?" or "can you help us. There is not a spot where we can see."

I don't know if they possibly had a GAC for someone in the first group to arrive, but normally the CMs will only allow someone with a GAC or a mobility device into the area. AND, would not allow someone to save more than one spot along the rail, even if their whole party was in the area, but just not along the rail. The people you describe were rude, even if they had several with disabilities in their party.

What happens in real life though is variable and many people are incredibly rude. People without disabilities try all the time to get into those areas. Some are bold and just pretend they did not see the wheelchair symbol on the rope when they lift it up. Others say they are waiting for another member who is disabled (and often that person never shows up).

There is one spot, manned by a CM to enter the area, but many of the areas are long and people unattached the rope on the other side and let themselves in. Especially as it gets later and darker, it gets more difficult for the CM to see what is happening on the other end of the area. Some of the 'moving to the front' occurs just as the show is starting, so the CM may not see it.
And, our experience is that some of the CMs manning the handicapped viewing areas are young and fairly timid, especially at Epcot, where they tend to be young people from that country on exchange experiences. (The CMs at Fantasmic, from our experience, do tend to be tough as nails 'Drill Sargeant' types more often).

The Illuminations viewing areas between Canada and the UK and in front of Germany are not actually that large and some of the spots are in front of trees. So, someone saving that many spots could actually have used most of the available spots just for their one party.
My DD has gotten a 'tree spot' where she could see nothing at all several times in the past. Sitting next to her in the 'prime' viewing spots in some cases were empty ECVs (the person using them chose to stand at the back of the viewing area, leaning on a fence or sitting on a bench), an empty stroller (the child held on dad's shoulders, blocking other's views) and a sleeping child in a stroller (grandma was using an ECV).

 

[jmartinez1895]

Thanks everyone for the reply's. For all I know every single person in the group that I told you about could have had some form of invisible disability and needed to be in that area, my true problem with this group was the camping and holding of the spots. You all have answered my questions and made me feel better if I do report this if it should happen again.