Have you ever wished for your child to fail at something?

[KiminChicago]

OK, maybe fail is too strong a word. I just want something to shake DS up a little.

DS (13) is currently getting ready to audition for the Illinois Music Educators Junior High Band for our district. His music teacher, DH and I have all tried to explain to him that he needed to be practicing every day (at least this week and next -- the auditions are on October 2nd), and he especially needs to be practicing his scales (some judges won't even score the musical selections if the scales aren't good).

The problem is that music has always come so easily for him. In 4th grade his music teacher started all her students on the recorder. She set it up as a "dojo" and every time one of the students played a song through perfectly, they got a "belt" for their recorder (a piece of yarn in the proper color). She started this in October, DS was a "black belt" before Christmas. That's when we started having her give him clarinet lessons after school -- he finished the whole 5th grade clarinet course before June. In 5th grade, he decided to take up the trombone since he was so far ahead of all the other clarinets. And he started taking saxphone lessons in addition to clarinet lessons after school. Last year (7th grade) he played clarinet with the regular band and sax with the jazz band.

Now he's in 8th grade and apparently he thinks he's so good that he doesn't need to practice. He hasn't even picked up his clarinet since Thursday and I'm trying really hard not to nag him about it so I haven't said anything. I half hope that things go badly next weekend and he'll finally realize that everyone else who auditions is also that good and he needs to work a little harder if this is something he wants. Next year in high school it's only going to get more competitive.

Does anyone have any tips on how I can get through this and maybe motivate him to practice more? I should also point out that he was the one who made the decision to audition on the recommendation of his band director at school -- I'm not making him do this.

 

[Imzadi]

It sounds like he's musically gifted. Maybe, instead of playing with and against other kid students, he should get a teacher who can teach him on adult levels and really challenge him. Also bring him to an adult band/orchestra rehearsal. Let him sit in the back and learn what it's really like in the adult music world and what will be required of him in out there. He may find that it IS over his head, and that's where he should be.

I remember, back all through elementary school, one fellow classmate who was always acting out in class, during all the years. He was the one the teachers separated out, put in the back of the room, etc., to punish for his behavior. He was labeled as the smart mouth, troublemaker & rebel.

In 6th grade when we took the achievement/I.Q. tests, he tested at college level for everything. He had even finished the tests way before everybody. In hind sight, he was clearly a mega-genius. He was just bored out of his skull because was smarter than the teachers. But, we didn't have special advancement, gifted programs back then. They also didn't have the psychological teaching to understand how to deal with a gifted child. And the teachers themselves lacked the humility to say, "I really don't have the skills to teach him. He is well beyond me and needs someone else who's gifted at HIS level, to work with him."

Instead, the school basically punished him for being so bored. He needed to keep his brain occupied, so he basically mis-behaved all through elementary through high school. When he turned 16, he was legally allowed to quit school, he did. He really was smarter than everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a version of Bill Gates.

While, yes, I thoroughly understand you want to teach your DS humility by failing (once.) Maybe putting this big fish in a small pond, out in the ocean to realize there are other bigger, more talented fish, and that there is so much more to learn, is a better humility. If he still loves music that much, he will rise to the challenge required.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Since I have older kids....brats.

Here is what I would say.....I would sit him down and say honey, I know you are gifted in music however you are going to be up against kids that are also gifted like you and probably better than you.

Now I don't want to have to nag you anymore so I am going to say for the last time, I wish you would practice just a bit. I am your mom and I would be very proud if you make this and hurt if you are sad if you don't.

Then I would give him a hug and leave it at that.

 

[polkadotsuitcase]

Sounds like it's one of those things that he may have to learn himself? I wouldn't nag, either, but let the natural consequences fall where they may. One of my guys is on the cusp of the weight range for football (there's a maximum weight that they're allowed to be and still carry the ball). One part of me wanted to keep reminding him during the week not to eat that second serving if he wanted to make weigh-in. The other part wanted to let him deal with it himself because a) that's a better lesson for him and b) I really don't want him to develop weight/body/self-esteem issues. It's hard, but I let him "tackle" it himself, and he did end up self-regulating.

Good luck!

 

[disneyfans95]

lol yeah football.

Those 5 day a week practices just would never have fit in our schedule.

He was down to picking and playing football or soccer (he is good at both). Settled on soccer. While still takes time, no way near the amount football takes and the travel team stuff was in a tighter space then football would have been.

so yeah, we are bad parents

 

[bballmom56]

When my DD was about that age (maybe a year or two older) she qualified for a national competition for which she was very excited and motivated. It was a team and individual knowledge event that she won at our state level. She had been doing this event for several years, always studied, and won the state event at least 3 times.

Well, some peer pressure and maturing issues came into play and she put her back up to studying. It was something that came easily to her, but still required effort and studying particularly for the national level. I encouraged her, but of course could not force her to study. She would only get one chance at going to the national event for this competition, but that didn't override the other issues.

Well, her team finished 4th and she finished as 17th individual overall. Sounds great, but she knew if she had been on the top of her game she could have helped her team do better and also could have been in the top 10 who get awards and recognition. We talked about it in the following months and years and she admitted that yes, she cooked her own goose. She never let that happen again. I never said "I told you so" or that I was disappointed in her. I wasn't. She had to do what was right for her and learn from it - which she did. A very valuable lesson was learned.

So OP, if he makes it - great! If he doesn't, it could certainly make him understand how much he does need to put into it. And then for his high school years, he may be much more driven to achieve. So either way, it will be ok.

 

[golfgal]

Natural Consequences are always the best. Stop nagging and let him learn on his own that there will always be someone better than you out there. If he tries out and doesn't make it, lesson learned. If he tries out and makes it, there will be enough pressure in that group to practice and do well so lesson learned.

School comes very easy to DS15 and he went into a couple classes last year thinking they were going to be a cakewalk only to learn that the teachers he had were very tough. It took one B on his first test to realize that he needed to study. He, however, seems to have forgotten that over the summer because he was warned that his Spanish teacher is VERY hard, chose not to study, got a B- on his first test, he has been studying again.

 

[JLTraveling]

It sounds like he's musically gifted. Maybe, instead of playing with and against other kid students, he should get a teacher who can teach him on adult levels and really challenge him. Also bring him to an adult band/orchestra rehearsal. Let him sit in the back and learn what it's really like in the adult music world and what will be required of him in out there. He may find that it IS over his head, and that's where he should be.

I remember, back all through elementary school, one fellow classmate who was always acting out in class, during all the years. He was the one the teachers separated out, put in the back of the room, etc., to punish for his behavior. He was labeled as the smart mouth, troublemaker & rebel.

In 6th grade when we took the achievement/I.Q. tests, he tested at college level for everything. He had even finished the tests way before everybody. In hind sight, he was clearly a mega-genius. He was just bored out of his skull because was smarter than the teachers. But, we didn't have special advancement, gifted programs back then. They also didn't have the psychological teaching to understand how to deal with a gifted child. And the teachers themselves lacked the humility to say, "I really don't have the skills to teach him. He is well beyond me and needs someone else who's gifted at HIS level, to work with him."

Instead, the school basically punished him for being so bored. He needed to keep his brain occupied, so he basically mis-behaved all through elementary through high school. When he turned 16, he was legally allowed to quit school, he did. He really was smarter than everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a version of Bill Gates.

While, yes, I thoroughly understand you want to teach your DS humility by failing (once.) Maybe putting this big fish in a small pond, out in the ocean to realize there are other bigger, more talented fish, and that there is so much more to learn, is a better humility. If he still loves music that much, he will rise to the challenge required.

This. I had a tested IQ of 185. I was reading college engineering and psych texts when I was 3. I simply couldn't survive in a normal classroom. It was a huge battle my whole life to try to find a situation that worked, and I ended up graduating at 14.

Get your DS evaluated by a music instructor outside of the schools. Let him join an adult class or consider private instruction at his own level. I don't think it's so much about teaching him humility...that'll come on its own once he's properly challenged. But right now he needs an outlet that will challenge him. He'll be so much happier in the long run.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

My daughter is in a similar situation. She plays French Horn in the high school band. She plays every day in band class, and has a weekly private lesson. But it's very rare of her to pick up her horn at home (a few times a month) unless she is going to be playing for church.

District band auditions are in early December. She is going to try out this year. But I haven't heard her play the required piece at home once.

I want her to learn that practicing is important. But I don't want her to learn that by not making district band...

 

[libraryfreak]

I used to wish for the same thing. My daughter is very bright, and would procrastinate on a six week project till the night before it was due. I was literally praying, "get a d, get a d... that'll teach her," but no, she'd pull an A out of her butt. Would totally tick me off. The teacher would comment, "nice job, you put alot of work into this". GRRR...

She ended up scoring in the 99th percentile on her SAT's and ACT. (She only took them once.) But... she got to college and she now is only an average student. She does go to a hard school, the average ACT score is 31, so she is among peers intellectually. I admit, and so does she, it was a kick in the pants to learn you're not the best or brightest out there. So it eventually worked out.

As for your son, I think too he may be gifted musically and could be bored. I agree with trying to find an adult group nearby, but also have you tried finding a summer camp for clarinet? There are plenty out there. It would put him with other gifted musicians and he'll be able to find like minded kids. Could he be feeling a little geeky? This would put him at ease knowing there are others like him.

Oh - is he playing a student model? Maybe for Christmas you could get him a better one? I know they're very expensive, but perhaps it would renew his interest.

Congrats on having such a talented child.

 

[tonilea]

It sounds like he is a big fish in his little pond. The new pond is going to be stocked with fish just like him - except they may practice more.

 

[Katy Belle]

Yeah, been there, still there! Ds plays the tuba, very well. He went to band camp this summer, in another state. He did not practice the audition music. So, he did not make it into the "honor" band. I thought that would teach him. Nope. He ended up getting an award for "most outstanding musician in the symphonic band" and a scholarship for next year.

District try outs are coming up, and he wasn't practicing. I told him that if I was paying for private lessons, and the fee for try outs, that he had to show effort. He is practicing now, for a while anyway.

Good luck!

 

[sunnyday123]

Since I have older kids....brats.

Here is what I would say.....I would sit him down and say honey, I know you are gifted in music however you are going to be up against kids that are also gifted like you and probably better than you.

Now I don't want to have to nag you anymore so I am going to say for the last time, I wish you would practice just a bit. I am your mom and I would be very proud if you make this and hurt if you are sad if you don't.

Then I would give him a hug and leave it at that.

This. I went through this with DD last year in school. Trust me when I saw I have no idea where this kid got her intelligence, but she is smart. She's always received extra work because she finishes early, and last year she was placed in a advanced math class with another child that was on an 8th grade level ( she was in 6th). Didn't study, etc.

She got a C the first marking period. She was devastated, stupid and didn't know why I bothered to send her to school anymore. This was after blaming the teacher, of course. We talked, and she realized it was her, not anyone else, and she would actually have to put effort into something now.

By the 2nd marking period, she was back to an A and has been fine ever since. I was relieved she got that C, it helped her realize things are not always easy, and sometimes you have to put in some effort. Sometimes the best lesson they can learn is from a mistake.

 

[AristocatFan]

Been there with oldest DS and the only thing that woke him up was life itself. He would not take sax lessons and rarely practiced yet was always 1st chair alto sax. Didn't matter that we tried to get him to see that he should always be improving. Then his sophomore year of HS, his friend knocked him down to 2nd chair. Wake up call! He did get 1st chair back his junior and senior year. It just took life experience to open his eyes.

 

[arminnie]

Here is what I would say.....I would sit him down and say honey, I know you are gifted in music however you are going to be up against kids that are also gifted like you and probably better than you.

Now I don't want to have to nag you anymore so I am going to say for the last time, I wish you would practice just a bit. I am your mom and I would be very proud if you make this and hurt if you are sad if you don't.

Then I would give him a hug and leave it at that.

Good advice.

I used to wish for the same thing. My daughter is very bright, and would procrastinate on a six week project till the night before it was due. I was literally praying, "get a d, get a d... that'll teach her," but no, she'd pull an A out of her butt. Would totally tick me off. The teacher would comment, "nice job, you put alot of work into this". GRRR...

She ended up scoring in the 99th percentile on her SAT's and ACT. (She only took them once.) But... she got to college and she now is only an average student. She does go to a hard school, the average ACT score is 31, so she is among peers intellectually. I admit, and so does she, it was a kick in the pants to learn you're not the best or brightest out there. So it eventually worked out.

I was that kid except that it worked a lot longer for me. Even when I was in grad school at Stanford (extremely competitive) I would make top grades even in the honors sections when I did almost nothing till the last minute.

I had never failed. I got vitually every job I ever interviewed for. Lots of promotions, etc.

But in my mid 30s the company I worked for was bought out and over 50,000 people lost their jobs. I was one of them. It was literally my first "failure" in life. I was devastated and really did not know how to handle it.

I had to learn that even being the best or the brightest out there did not mean that you didn't have to handle life challenges. I had no skill set for dealing with not having the perfect outcome.

 

[Jill in Chicago]

Consequences are an ongoing process for all of us,especially adolescents. The more a teen can learn on their own the better. As for motivation step back, way back. No more cajoling to practice. He knows what you believe. The more you reiterate it, the more he will not listen to you.

Let's say he does do well. So be it. Maybe he will continue to do well with his choice of practice time. Maybe he will not. Maybe music is in his future. Maybe it isn't in his heart.

Again, you stated your opinion. The only way he can learn, is to learn on his own. The more a child learns to learn, the better decision makers they become. Learning to make decisions and choices is a learned skill. Every time we, as parents step in, we take away a chance for our child to become cognitively aware of choices and how this will affect him. (Of course a parent should step in when those choices are dangerous, illegal, go against your morals...)

Is it wrong to hope that he fails? I think a better question is, it wrong to hope that he fails so that you can prove your opinions were correct, and his opinions were incorrect.

IF, in fact you were incorrect, as he does well, I would step up and ask, "How do you think you did?" If he says, "Great." Then say, "Good. All that matters is that you feel you did what you needed to do."

Lastly for all those adults, and I have heard many say, "I wish my parents made me practice," or "I wish my parents did not let me quit piano...." I always respond,"It wasn't their job to motivate you. YOU motivate you. What is keeping you from that instrument now? You could take time NOW and learn that instrument. Your choice. In ten years YOU could be playing that instrument well, or in ten years from now you could still be NOT playing."

 

[golfgal]

I think the hardest thing for a parent to remember is that it is THEIR life, not yours and yes, you want the best for them but your idea of what is best for them might not be their idea, accepting that is hard. It is especially hard when you see a kid with so much talent in something wasting that talent.

 

[bumbershoot]

In 4th grade his music teacher started all her students on the recorder. She set it up as a "dojo" and every time one of the students played a song through perfectly, they got a "belt" for their recorder (a piece of yarn in the proper color).

Love that idea!



I can understand where you're coming from, and I think everyone said everything that was on my mind. But I definitely know that being forced to practice isn't going to accomplish much but cause resentment. Sure, like a bunch of my friends with really pushy parents, he might play a bit better, but the feelings he's going to have against you are going to offset that, definitely. And will a "thank you" when they are 35 and playing for some high-end symphony going to make up for those intervening years? Maybe, maybe not.

I knew this one guy in college...it isn't music-related, but it's "doesn't do the work, still does well" related. This guy partied drastically and dramatically every weekend (basically Thursday night through Sunday night). I'm not talking just alcohol though that was definitely included. During the week he was completely clean and sober, and worked his tail off. He was a genius, double or triple majoring in HARD subjects, straight As, hugely bright future, work-wise. But he'd do that to himself every weekend. He, and many others, felt that since he was doing great, it was OK. I always felt "but you could be even better" if he wouldn't do that stuff (plus of course he was endangering his life...though he did make sure to keep himself as safe as possible...he NEVER drove, never really left his room in the frat, didn't even go for a walk to the 7-11 over the weekends). But...he still did incredibly well, despite the things he did and the weekend studying he didn't do...

Not sure what side that story comes down on, but...there's no way to know where your son will fall either. He might be The Genius who will do well despite all the not-practicing, or he might fail at some point. ONly time will tell, I suppose.

 

[monsterkitty]

Some advice from a middle school band director - don't push him to practice, he needs to figure it out on his own. He may make the honor band, but then there are chair auditions. Is he first chair in his m.s. band? If he isn't practicing, he won't be in the honor band.

While the OP hasn't even brought up that her son is gifted, but rather music comes easy for him, I can't believe others are saying he is musically gifted. He may have a natural talent to play the notes and the rhythms, but what about the other aspects of the music? His band director is more than capable of determining if the son is gifted or just advanced. I have some really good players who are certainly advanced for their ages, but in my 21 years of teaching I have only come across 3 gifted musicians.

Mom, you have a great head on your shoulders in working this through. I like that you are encouraging him to do this, yet not pushing him and keeping it real. Your son will probably make the band but the trip isn't over there. The chair auditions are the second and final step and they can be brutal with the competition. This is where those who practice and are prepared will shine and where those who don't will still have a great experience but with some let down.

GOod luck!

 

[marcyinPA]

I believe in natural consequences. You've told him that he needs to practice. He will competing against kids who may be better than he is. If he didn't take it seriously enough to prepare, then it is his own fault if he doesn't make it.

Believe me, I've tried to own my DS15's problems more than I should. He's failed miserably at things many times, even after our guidance and support. He still hasn't learned. Hopefully he will...maybe he won't. There is one thing I know for sure, and that is that I can't do more than I've already done. The rest is up to him.

Good luck!