Have you ever heard of this? School related **update pg. 4

Sorry about the newborn mistake!! I think since it just said "newborn" I was thinking it was a boy instead of a girl!! Well, one thing is for sure---you make beautiful girls!!!

I am not sure why I think it is for attention. I guess because there are 3 other children in your house, I assumed that. My sister has 4 kids and I see it there quite often. Nothing as serious as your daughter is exhibiting though. I am afraid for her...all that trouble may lead to more trouble. What does she tell you about the question of why she is doing these things or why she isn't doing other things?
 
So what exactly did the letter say. That they would demote her, or that she would be sent to "such and such" school? If it only named the school, and did not say she would be demoted, my guess is that they have an "alternative" classroom there for the highschool students who are behavioral problems.
 
Buckalew11 said:
Sorry about the newborn mistake!! I think since it just said "newborn" I was thinking it was a boy instead of a girl!! Well, one thing is for sure---you make beautiful girls!!!

I am not sure why I think it is for attention. I guess because there are 3 other children in your house, I assumed that. My sister has 4 kids and I see it there quite often. Nothing as serious as your daughter is exhibiting though. I am afraid for her...all that trouble may lead to more trouble. What does she tell you about the question of why she is doing these things or why she isn't doing other things?

No problem! ;)

I often get that response it must be attention that she needs. I try my best to give her the attention she needs. I spend quality time with her once the others go to bed which I tell her is a benefit they don't get.

When her father and/or I ask her to explain her behavior, she will blame it on the teacher or excuse it in other ways. She never accepts the fact that she was wrong. I worry about her because she really shows no remorse and is so unfazed by any punishments she gets for her actions.
 
sha_lyn said:
So what exactly did the letter say. That they would demote her, or that she would be sent to "such and such" school? If it only named the school, and did not say she would be demoted, my guess is that they have an "alternative" classroom there for the highschool students who are behavioral problems.


What I actually got was 3 Reports of disciplainary referrals which say what she did in what class. Then on the last report the VP wrote, conference to be sent back to (school name) next infraction. It is the JR high she went to. As far as I know there is no such program like that there but even still that would be so....I don't even know the word.
 

tiff211 said:
No problem! ;)

I often get that response it must be attention that she needs. I try my best to give her the attention she needs. I spend quality time with her once the others go to bed which I tell her is a benefit they don't get.

When her father and/or I ask her to explain her behavior, she will blame it on the teacher or excuse it in other ways. She never accepts the fact that she was wrong. I worry about her because she really shows no remorse and is so unfazed by any punishments she gets for her actions.

How does she feel about being sent back to the middle school? Does she seem unfazed by that as well?

What about friends? Does she have a lot of close friends in her grade that she might miss if she were sent elsewhere?

How does she feel about moving with her father? I seen you mentioning that you've talked about it before, but what does she feel now that it's possibly going to become her reality?
 
N.Bailey said:
How does she feel about being sent back to the middle school? Does she seem unfazed by that as well?

What about friends? Does she have a lot of close friends in her grade that she might miss if she were sent elsewhere?

How does she feel about moving with her father? I seen you mentioning that you've talked about it before, but what does she feel now that it's possibly going to become her reality?


She says that she would be really embarrased but I don't see any real concern on her part. She says she is not going to get in trouble anymore.

She does have lots of friends at her school now.

She wants to live with her dad. I know I am the "bad parent" so she thinks it will be peaches and cream with him. The only gripe she really had so far is that she will have to share a room with her sister whereas here she has her own.
 
Going back to middle school? That doesn't make sense. Her problems are behavioral, not academic. As a high school teacher, no, I've never heard of such a thing.

However, you MUST get control of this situation immediately. 9th grade (and 14 years old) is, in my opinon, the worst age kids -- especially girls -- go through. In many cases it's a result of more freedom than they've been used to in middle school. They aren't as ready to manage their own behavior as they'd like to think; they think they're being cool when they're actually being bratty! Sadly, many smart-alecky teens on TV reinforce the idea that this is the way to behave -- after all, their problems always work out within a 30 minute show, and usually they work out without adult help! Children often think the real world works the same way. That things WILL get better as she matures; however, it'll take serious work on your part. Just telling her "do better" won't work; you need to give her the skills with which to do better, and you need to give her incentive to do better.

Here's my suggestion -- it's something that I used back when I taught 9th grade, and IT WORKS when the parents and the school work together: Pick up a copy of the book Taming the Homework Hassle by John Rosemond. He's a very old-fashioned, no excuses, no nonsense writer on the subject of parenting. I know that your daughter's problems don't specifically deal with homework, but he devotes an entire chapter to a system that I've personally used with students in the past, and it works for behavior problems as well as homework issues. Quick run-down: You and the teacher(s) TOGETHER make up a checklist of behaviors that need to improve. You might decide that she needs to

1) be on time for class
2) have all materials with her in class
3) have all homework complete
4) be respectful to classmates and the teacher
5) use class time wisely

It must be individual for YOUR CHILD -- only you and the teacher know what her specific problem behaviors are.

Together you type it up and provide your daughter with enough copies that she has one per day. EVERY DAY she is responsible for handing it to every teacher at the end of every class period. The teacher spends about 10 seconds checking off "yes" or "no" to each question. The child brings it home to you, and she is allowed X amount of privledges based upon what she did in school THAT DAY. You might decide that 1 "no" equals no TV, 3 "nos" mean no TV and no phone, more than 3 "nos" mean no privledges and extra chores . . . whatever works for your child. She is either rewarded or punished EVERY DAY based upon what she's done THAT DAY. The responsibility is placed squarely where it belongs: on the shoulders of the student. The teacher has a quick, easy way to communicate with you, and it doesn't take away from class time. You have constant feedback from the school. I'd suggest using the check sheets until the next grading period, then meeting again to see if you need to re-word or change some expectations, or perhaps move to a once-a-week checklist (to wean her off the system if she's showing good behavior).

I strongly suggest that you get the book and read the whole chapter. It gives a sample sheet and discusses potential pitfalls such as substitute teachers who don't know the system. I have seen this system work WONDERS when the parents are behind it and are consistant with the punishment /rewards at home.
 
tiff211 said:
She wants to live with her dad. I know I am the "bad parent" so she thinks it will be peaches and cream with him. The only gripe she really had so far is that she will have to share a room with her sister whereas here she has her own.
Just one warning: I had a cousin who was allowed to choose which parent he lived with. The result was that he bounced back and forth. He'd live with dad a while and attend school A. When things got rough (trouble at school, home, whatever), he declare that he couldn't stay there and he'd run to his mom's house, which included moving to school B. Things'd be great for a while, but once the honeymoon period was over and he got into some trouble there, he'd head back to dad's.

Today he's almost 30 and is a mess. He was always allowed to run away from his problems rather than being forced to stay and work through them. He cannot keep a job, he has a drug problem and a criminal record. He has a child whom he does not support. I'm not saying that this was all caused by his "bouncing around" as a child, but I do think it contributed to his problem behavior.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that where to live is not a child's decision. I can see allowing the child to voice an opinion, but it's a complicated issue involving space, money, insurance, schools, adult supervision, siblings, etc., etc., etc. These are decisions that should be made by parents; parents have more wisdom and foresight and are in a position to make better judgements than children, who have only limited experience and often make their decisions based upon temporary, superficial criteria.
 
tiff211 said:
She says that she would be really embarrased but I don't see any real concern on her part. She says she is not going to get in trouble anymore.

She does have lots of friends at her school now.

She wants to live with her dad. I know I am the "bad parent" so she thinks it will be peaches and cream with him. The only gripe she really had so far is that she will have to share a room with her sister whereas here she has her own.

Well, I'd say it looks like the ball is in her court. You either allow her to go live with her father and see how that goes, or she stays there with you and you make her pay the piper. It sounds like the school is willing to give her another opportunity. I don't like what the school is trying to do here, it just doesn't sit well with me, but I'd probably let her know if she didn't straighten up and fly right, that's the consequence she will have to face. If she stays with you though, I feel you should fully back the school. I probably would have too, but I seen in the original OP you stated you weren't going to allow this to happen (something to that extent anyway). If your daughter picked that up though, she'll play you against the school in a heartbeat.

I was pretty rebellious when I was young too. My mom actually received fines for my brother and I for skipping school MANY times. It takes quite awhile to get to that point. Moving us out of that district straightened us right up though. It wasn't the school, but rather the people we were associating with in that area. My mother moved us 4 hours away, so that whole side of our lives was gone in an instant.
 
MrsPete said:
Going back to middle school? That doesn't make sense. Her problems are behavioral, not academic. As a high school teacher, no, I've never heard of such a thing.

SNIP

You gave some execellent advice. This is one of the best responses I think I've ever read on any message board. While we don't have these problems right now, I think I'm going to search for a copy of this book too.
 
Uh, just a guess.... newborn? Recent behavior problems with eldest child?

IMHO sounds like a case of "I'm not getting the same amount of attention now there's a baby in the picture...let's see how can I get the attention back on myself."

Of course, I'm not a therapist but it's kinda strange the two coincide...
 
Maybe sending her back to middle school is not the best action for the school, but sorry your daughter is out of control. Sending her to live with her father will make the problem worse. You need to take her to school and walk her to her class. When she has detention, go to the school and take her to it. She will be so embarrased, she will do what she needs rather than you helping her do it.

A friend of ours son kept skipping classes. When his parents told him his mother would take him to class if he did it again he thought they were bluffing. Well was he surprised when his mother came to the school and walked him from class to class. She sat in the back of the room for all the classes. He was humiliated and never cut class again. I think they only did this for a few days and he was cured.
 
minniecarousel said:
I work in a HS & I've never heard of sending kids back to middle school! However, if she is so uncooperative, around here, she'd be sent to the "alternative" HS. That would be a drastic step. So, if the school is serious - she had better get her act together. I also have to ask if this is the first you've heard of this? Sounds like it's time for you to have a "sit-down" with your daughter and the school psychologist or guidance counselor - she is obviously crying out for help!

We also have an "alternative" HS. Also in our district we have a multi age, multi grade class which happens to be in a middle school that does handle discipliarian problems. These student can range from 6th -grade to the age of a 10th grader. Its sort of an alternative set up as a last resort before they are placed in the alternative high school for good.

Since the OP's daughter is 14, that can be a 8th graders age. Perhaps they are thinking that she needs more maturity until she hits high school.

It also may be an academic issue as well. Her grades may be suffering as well. Maybe the school has an academic probation of some sort.
 
tiff211 said:
Don't kids just act up because they want when they want and want to do what they want to do sometimes.

yes, they do... and you say you are giving her the attention that you can. Apparently, it's not enough. I still say it's a way to get your attention by acting "bad"...

Take her to Chicken Little with the rest of the family. If you don't you'll only add fuel to the fire, and she'll only retaliate.
 
You said she is 14, is she in 8th grade or will she be 15 soon? That is the only thing I can think of for sending her back to middle school.

Now as for her behavior, I'm sorry she is 14 not 2. A new baby shouldn't effect her life so much that she has 20 detentions coming. I think mom needs to crack down on her behavior until she starts acting her age and not like a toddler. No phone, no friends, no computer, nothing. As she improves her behavior and her grades then she starts earning back privileges. You keep letting her slide using the excuse of the new baby and she will never learn. You said she always has an excuse for her behavior, too bad, the only excuse is that she chose to act that way. She needs to start owning up to her behavior. If the school feels she isn't ready for 9th grade, then maybe that will be the eye opener for her to grow up. You have already said that you won't allow that, well, your DD has already won the battle then. You have just taken the school's discipline out of the picture.

If she wants to move in with dad, well, then maybe she should with the understanding that she can't move back in with you until her behavior improves. You need to look long term here and the way she is going she is going to end up flunking out of school. Is that what you want for her? I think an immediate meeting with the principal, vice-principal, school counselor and BOTH parents along with DD is needed to stop this cycle.
 
WOW!!!! My heart goes out to you. I am an RN that works with adolescents on an inpatient acute unit. IMHO, sounds like she has some unresolved 'issues' that needs to be further evaluated. I admitted adolescents for this type of behavior about 95 % of the time. Most of our referals actually come from the schools. You might want to discuss this option. It is a very difficult decision to make, but in the long run it can save their lives. Alot of oppositional and defiant behavior starts with missing school, running away, etc.. Its just a thought, sometimes they are hospitalized for a few days to a few weeks. They have counseling and family therapy also. They have a treatments team that works with each patient. The doctors, social workers, art therapists, nurses, etc.. Find our what your resources are from the counselors. They also attend school while they are in the hospital, so they don't miss any work. I know that this is a very difficult time and you must not forget yourself; you might want to look into counseling also. Trust me, its not a bad thing. It just lifts alot off your shoulders when you know that you have a healthy support system. Good luck and be sure to ask the school what resources that are out there.
 
In our school system there is a policy on this but it is only used for the 8th graders who have barely made it to HS. They are sent on to HS for a trial period (first marking) and if they can't keep up they go back to 8th grade. They know this in advance though, so it is not like they are just making decisions here and there.

I am not sure if this still exsists, but it did about 5-6 years ago. :)
 
MrsPete said:
Going back to middle school? That doesn't make sense. Her problems are behavioral, not academic. As a high school teacher, no, I've never heard of such a thing.

However, you MUST get control of this situation immediately. 9th grade (and 14 years old) is, in my opinon, the worst age kids -- especially girls -- go through. In many cases it's a result of more freedom than they've been used to in middle school. They aren't as ready to manage their own behavior as they'd like to think; they think they're being cool when they're actually being bratty! Sadly, many smart-alecky teens on TV reinforce the idea that this is the way to behave -- after all, their problems always work out within a 30 minute show, and usually they work out without adult help! Children often think the real world works the same way. That things WILL get better as she matures; however, it'll take serious work on your part. Just telling her "do better" won't work; you need to give her the skills with which to do better, and you need to give her incentive to do better.

Here's my suggestion -- it's something that I used back when I taught 9th grade, and IT WORKS when the parents and the school work together: Pick up a copy of the book Taming the Homework Hassle by John Rosemond. He's a very old-fashioned, no excuses, no nonsense writer on the subject of parenting. I know that your daughter's problems don't specifically deal with homework, but he devotes an entire chapter to a system that I've personally used with students in the past, and it works for behavior problems as well as homework issues. Quick run-down: You and the teacher(s) TOGETHER make up a checklist of behaviors that need to improve. You might decide that she needs to

1) be on time for class
2) have all materials with her in class
3) have all homework complete
4) be respectful to classmates and the teacher
5) use class time wisely

It must be individual for YOUR CHILD -- only you and the teacher know what her specific problem behaviors are.

Together you type it up and provide your daughter with enough copies that she has one per day. EVERY DAY she is responsible for handing it to every teacher at the end of every class period. The teacher spends about 10 seconds checking off "yes" or "no" to each question. The child brings it home to you, and she is allowed X amount of privledges based upon what she did in school THAT DAY. You might decide that 1 "no" equals no TV, 3 "nos" mean no TV and no phone, more than 3 "nos" mean no privledges and extra chores . . . whatever works for your child. She is either rewarded or punished EVERY DAY based upon what she's done THAT DAY. The responsibility is placed squarely where it belongs: on the shoulders of the student. The teacher has a quick, easy way to communicate with you, and it doesn't take away from class time. You have constant feedback from the school. I'd suggest using the check sheets until the next grading period, then meeting again to see if you need to re-word or change some expectations, or perhaps move to a once-a-week checklist (to wean her off the system if she's showing good behavior).

I strongly suggest that you get the book and read the whole chapter. It gives a sample sheet and discusses potential pitfalls such as substitute teachers who don't know the system. I have seen this system work WONDERS when the parents are behind it and are consistant with the punishment /rewards at home.

Excellent post.

If her dd has been doing this for a long time pre-baby sister and her dad and her grandparents are involved and not really helping then I can see this happening.

I have 5 kids with our baby being 4mo. My 14yo dd acts up, too, but not because of her siblings or she wants attention. That's what teenagers do - they do it because they can. lol

Regroup and get your reins on the situation and yes, the school may have resources so use them.

GL! You have a beautiful family! :wizard:
 
I went back and reread some of the posts. Keep in mind that not all counselors are the same; some are great and others 'ok'. You could talk to her physician and get a referal to someone who works with adolescents specifically. I think that sending her back an grade is just like putting a bandaid over a bleeding wound. It will probably not help her; probably just make her self esteem and the situation even worse. Please seek out professional help. Adolescents are very vulnerable to peer pressure; drug use and STDs are very high among them. I am not suggesting that she is doing these things, but sometimes there is a pattern that starts with problems at school and family conflict. Books are also a great resource, but counseling from someone who is a professional can help. Adolescents as do most anyone tend to open up a lot easier when talking to someone who is not a family member.
 
Based on previous posts you've made about your DD and her preference to spend time with her grandparents and her struggles with her step father and the new family situation, I would definitely say there's a lot more to the situation than she's acting out just to be that way. I think family counseling is in order before the situation gets worse. Shipping her off to her Father's at this particular age, even if she wants it, could damage your relationship with her permanently. and at this age she could decide to act out in other more damaging ways

I'm not saying her behavior should be excused or that you're a bad parent. Just that from an unbiased reader this is coming across as a cry for help and it would help everyone involved if this gets nipped in the bud. a few sessions with a therapist will help clear the air, get you on the same page, and give you a path to proceed that will beneficial to everyone. I'm sure a happier and better behaved daughter will make your life a lot easier.

As far as being sent back to middle school, that's ridiculous. You're held back because you can't cut it academically - you're not demoted because you act up.
 















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