Have you ever heard of this? School related **update pg. 4

[Jeanny]

Now as for her behavior, I'm sorry she is 14 not 2. A new baby shouldn't effect her life so much that she has 20 detentions coming.

But there's not only ONE new baby... look at the OP signature, the oldest was the "only" for 10 years, now there's a stepfather and three sisters, 4, 2 & a newborn.... I still say that has a lot to do with her behavior!!!!!

 

[tinkerrn]

This is really bothering me. Sorry, I keep posting. Please, don't forget to ask about resources available in your area. Some hospitals have outpatient programs that adolescents can attend after school. I just can't see why sending her back a grade will help. That is just shoving her and her problems under the rug. The school system should be proactive and not reactive towards her behavior. Considering the probelms she presenst with, they should be advising you on how to seek out help for her. I just think sending her back a grade is a very lame and pathetic way to get her 'lost' in the system. This is something that you might have to take a more active role in, especially if the only answer is to send her back. Call her physicians office and find out what resources they have. There are good therapists who can help your family. Please, don't let the stigma of 'mental health' prevent her form getting the help she needs.

 

[Keli]

I don't envy you having to navigate this mine field. It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is, it's so hard to make yourself follow through, and sometimes it just doesn't turn out like you thought even when you do make all the right choices. Good luck with everything, I hope your dd finds her way and that your family life becomes smoother. It's not easy but I know you're doing your best to work it all out.

 

[halestrm]

Well, I was an only for 7 years. I can promise you that although I was spoiled, my grandparents were not allowed to reverse my punishments from my parents.

My MIL tried once with my daughter and I informed her that she would not be allowed to spend time with my daughter for a week if she did it again.

It sounds like you need to get the family on board or she is in for a lot of trouble. Make sure everyone understands the extent of her bad behavior. I am sure the family wants her to suceed in life.

Good luck

 

[MrsPete]

A friend of ours son kept skipping classes. When his parents told him his mother would take him to class if he did it again he thought they were bluffing. Well was he surprised when his mother came to the school and walked him from class to class. She sat in the back of the room for all the classes. He was humiliated and never cut class again. I think they only did this for a few days and he was cured.

In 14 years of teaching I have known TWO PARENTS who did this. In both cases, the student was humiliated but quickly learned a lesson and never repeated the behavior.

 

[Chicago526]

Never heard of this either. A friend of mine in high school pulled this kind of stuff, so they sent her to a special school for kids with disapline problems. Best thing that ever happened to her, too! So I can see a transfer to a differant school, but not putting a kid back a grade!

What would that accomplish, anyway?

 

[leighe]

I have never heard of a child being put back a grade because of behavior problems. If the child has met the requirements to move from 8th to 9th grade then how could they possible be moved backwards?

 

[MrsPete]

Adolescents are very vulnerable to peer pressure; drug use and STDs are very high among them. I am not suggesting that she is doing these things, but sometimes there is a pattern that starts with problems at school and family conflict.

You're absolutely right; these things DO tend to come together. Given her age, she's probably not into drugs and sex YET, but if you don't get a handle on her behavior, chances are she will progress to these things. Right now you have a fighting chance to get her back "on the straight and narrow". If you allow her to make excuses and blame everyone else for her behavior, then by the time she's a junior or senior in high school, she'll be "too far gone" to help.

As a teacher, I'll tell you the scenerio that bothers me to no end: Parents who see that their 9th or 10th grader is making bad choices, but they do nothing about it. Instead, they believe the child when she says that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or that the teacher is mean, or whatever . . . then once the child is older, the problems escalate (because the child has learned that the parent isn't going to punish them or do anything about the problems) . . . grades drop, but the parents buy the child a car anyway . . . questionable friends are brought into the home, and the parents just lecture when the child stays out all night . . . these parents whine that they've "tried everything" -- threatening to take away the car, etc., but they never follow through . . . then suddenly as the child approaches 18 and graduation, the problems become so serious that they can't be ignored: perhaps trouble with the law -- DUIs or shoplifting -- and the parent suddenly realizes that the child is months away from being a legal adult, and the parent realizes that he has "no more chances". I've seen parents cry and wish they'd done more at younger ages.

On the other hand, I know a child who got himself into some serious trouble the first week of summer. He's a good kid, not a trouble maker in any way, but he's only 16 and our state doesn't allow him to drive after dark or with more than one friend in the car. He broke these rules, and his parents took away his car FOR THE REST OF THE SUMMER. No dates, no summer job, no cruising around with friends. He is now the poster boy for safe driving. I'm sure it was a testy summer for the parents, and I'm sure he whined a lot, but I applaud their decision to stop that behavior in its tracks before he did something really serious like drinking/driving.

I'm not saying that the original poster's child is heading for a bad future. In fact, I feel sure that the original poster is doing EXACTLY the right things at this point: she's searching for answers, suggestions, stories from people with experience. She's formulating a plan to STOP her daughter's behavior while it's still just a matter of being out of class, etc. I think she will turn her child around before these nightmare scenerios occur in her home.

 

[tiff211]

Going back to middle school? That doesn't make sense. Her problems are behavioral, not academic. As a high school teacher, no, I've never heard of such a thing.

However, you MUST get control of this situation immediately. 9th grade (and 14 years old) is, in my opinon, the worst age kids -- especially girls -- go through. In many cases it's a result of more freedom than they've been used to in middle school. They aren't as ready to manage their own behavior as they'd like to think; they think they're being cool when they're actually being bratty! Sadly, many smart-alecky teens on TV reinforce the idea that this is the way to behave -- after all, their problems always work out within a 30 minute show, and usually they work out without adult help! Children often think the real world works the same way. That things WILL get better as she matures; however, it'll take serious work on your part. Just telling her "do better" won't work; you need to give her the skills with which to do better, and you need to give her incentive to do better.

Here's my suggestion -- it's something that I used back when I taught 9th grade, and IT WORKS when the parents and the school work together: Pick up a copy of the book Taming the Homework Hassle by John Rosemond. He's a very old-fashioned, no excuses, no nonsense writer on the subject of parenting. I know that your daughter's problems don't specifically deal with homework, but he devotes an entire chapter to a system that I've personally used with students in the past, and it works for behavior problems as well as homework issues. Quick run-down: You and the teacher(s) TOGETHER make up a checklist of behaviors that need to improve. You might decide that she needs to

1) be on time for class
2) have all materials with her in class
3) have all homework complete
4) be respectful to classmates and the teacher
5) use class time wisely

It must be individual for YOUR CHILD -- only you and the teacher know what her specific problem behaviors are.

Together you type it up and provide your daughter with enough copies that she has one per day. EVERY DAY she is responsible for handing it to every teacher at the end of every class period. The teacher spends about 10 seconds checking off "yes" or "no" to each question. The child brings it home to you, and she is allowed X amount of privledges based upon what she did in school THAT DAY. You might decide that 1 "no" equals no TV, 3 "nos" mean no TV and no phone, more than 3 "nos" mean no privledges and extra chores . . . whatever works for your child. She is either rewarded or punished EVERY DAY based upon what she's done THAT DAY. The responsibility is placed squarely where it belongs: on the shoulders of the student. The teacher has a quick, easy way to communicate with you, and it doesn't take away from class time. You have constant feedback from the school. I'd suggest using the check sheets until the next grading period, then meeting again to see if you need to re-word or change some expectations, or perhaps move to a once-a-week checklist (to wean her off the system if she's showing good behavior).

I strongly suggest that you get the book and read the whole chapter. It gives a sample sheet and discusses potential pitfalls such as substitute teachers who don't know the system. I have seen this system work WONDERS when the parents are behind it and are consistant with the punishment /rewards at home.

I am definitely going to get that book! I am willing to try anything at this point.

 

[tiff211]

Just one warning: I had a cousin who was allowed to choose which parent he lived with. The result was that he bounced back and forth. He'd live with dad a while and attend school A. When things got rough (trouble at school, home, whatever), he declare that he couldn't stay there and he'd run to his mom's house, which included moving to school B. Things'd be great for a while, but once the honeymoon period was over and he got into some trouble there, he'd head back to dad's.

Today he's almost 30 and is a mess. He was always allowed to run away from his problems rather than being forced to stay and work through them. He cannot keep a job, he has a drug problem and a criminal record. He has a child whom he does not support. I'm not saying that this was all caused by his "bouncing around" as a child, but I do think it contributed to his problem behavior.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that where to live is not a child's decision. I can see allowing the child to voice an opinion, but it's a complicated issue involving space, money, insurance, schools, adult supervision, siblings, etc., etc., etc. These are decisions that should be made by parents; parents have more wisdom and foresight and are in a position to make better judgements than children, who have only limited experience and often make their decisions based upon temporary, superficial criteria.

If/when to goes to her dad's, that's it. She stays put until the time comes for her to go off to college. The reason why I am even thinking about sending her to her dad's is because she is "afraid" of him finding out when she misbehaves. I am the one who punishes her, yells, screams, begs and pleads for her to straighten up but she gets all wide eyed when I grab the phone to call daddy. I have been dealing with this since about the age of 12 and I am at my wits end. I feel that I have tried so much with her and a main source of stress are her grandparents who will call her and tell her they are picking her up without asking. When I say no, they will be rude to me, hang up the phone etc. She has them wrapped around her finger and she knows it and uses it. Her dad is aware of this and knows how difficult it is for me to deal with it all. I just want what's best for her and maybe in a different environment, away from the influence of her more "mature friends", away from the grandparents (more specifically) grandfather who doesn't understand his actions are hurting not helping by not supporting me and my decisions. The fact that she shows no respect for DH, which causes us to fight because of how he reacts to her lack of respect, it just affects me so much sometime to the point of tears. Her father is just as much her parent as I am, I feel like maybe I should just let him take a crack at things.

 

[tiff211]

Well, I'd say it looks like the ball is in her court. You either allow her to go live with her father and see how that goes, or she stays there with you and you make her pay the piper. It sounds like the school is willing to give her another opportunity. I don't like what the school is trying to do here, it just doesn't sit well with me, but I'd probably let her know if she didn't straighten up and fly right, that's the consequence she will have to face. If she stays with you though, I feel you should fully back the school. I probably would have too, but I seen in the original OP you stated you weren't going to allow this to happen (something to that extent anyway). If your daughter picked that up though, she'll play you against the school in a heartbeat.

I was pretty rebellious when I was young too. My mom actually received fines for my brother and I for skipping school MANY times. It takes quite awhile to get to that point. Moving us out of that district straightened us right up though. It wasn't the school, but rather the people we were associating with in that area. My mother moved us 4 hours away, so that whole side of our lives was gone in an instant.

When I said I wouldn't allow that I meant that she is flys right or absolutely goes to her fathers instead of going back to the middle school. She did say she will miss her friends if she goes to her dads which is a plus for me because her friends are a bit more mature than I would like her to be!

 

[tiff211]

We also have an "alternative" HS. Also in our district we have a multi age, multi grade class which happens to be in a middle school that does handle discipliarian problems. These student can range from 6th -grade to the age of a 10th grader. Its sort of an alternative set up as a last resort before they are placed in the alternative high school for good.

Since the OP's daughter is 14, that can be a 8th graders age. Perhaps they are thinking that she needs more maturity until she hits high school.

It also may be an academic issue as well. Her grades may be suffering as well. Maybe the school has an academic probation of some sort.

I think this may be it. Dh (a teacher) said if she has passed the requirements academically there is no way they can put her back into 8th grade.

I often question her level of maturity. She seems more like a 11/12 year old by her actions and behavior.

Her grades are ok, actually better than before. At the beginning of the year, she always said there was no homework, she did it in afterschool, did it in class or rushed through it to get to the phone. I told her that if she got a bad progress report, she was be grounded until her report card came out and she had better grades. She came home with 2 bad reports so I grounded her and lo and behold, she had 1 to 2 hours of homework a night. She recently brought home a note from one teacher letting me now she had raised her grade up to a passing one and then asked me if she could be un-grounded. I know with her I need to stick to my guns so she is still grounded until grades come out.

 

[mudnuri]

If/when to goes to her dad's, that's it. She stays put until the time comes for her to go off to college. The reason why I am even thinking about sending her to her dad's is because she is "afraid" of him finding out when she misbehaves. I am the one who punishes her, yells, screams, begs and pleads for her to straighten up but she gets all wide eyed when I grab the phone to call daddy. I have been dealing with this since about the age of 12 and I am at my wits end. I feel that I have tried so much with her and a main source of stress are her grandparents who will call her and tell her they are picking her up without asking. When I say no, they will be rude to me, hang up the phone etc. She has them wrapped around her finger and she knows it and uses it. Her dad is aware of this and knows how difficult it is for me to deal with it all. I just want what's best for her and maybe in a different environment, away from the influence of her more "mature friends", away from the grandparents (more specifically) grandfather who doesn't understand his actions are hurting not helping by not supporting me and my decisions. The fact that she shows no respect for DH, which causes us to fight because of how he reacts to her lack of respect, it just affects me so much sometime to the point of tears. Her father is just as much her parent as I am, I feel like maybe I should just let him take a crack at things.

I'm sorry but it sounds to me as though your not taking any responsibility for your daughters behavior. The grandfather is the problem, she doesnt like your DH (again, her problem) she manipulates you (her problem) her father isnt around (his problem)....so your willing to send her there to have a crack at raising her?

Again, I dont mean to flame, and honestly I am not, but i would do EVERYTHING in my power to get to the bottom of this. If this means that your DD needs a new therapist- then I'd find one. I'd also go to family counseling- including your new DH, as he's part of the problem. BUt I would stop enabling her. There is NO way that my child would end up with 20 detentions and not having some SERIOUS consequences to pay for that infraction.....I almost wonder if there is more to this story, how can you get 20 detentions and the school not say- wow hang on a second somethings going on with this girl....

I'd dig deeper until you solved whats going on, and take some responsibility for why she's doing what she's doing....

again not flaming so please dont take it that way

Brandy

 

[tiff211]

WOW!!!! My heart goes out to you. I am an RN that works with adolescents on an inpatient acute unit. IMHO, sounds like she has some unresolved 'issues' that needs to be further evaluated. I admitted adolescents for this type of behavior about 95 % of the time. Most of our referals actually come from the schools. You might want to discuss this option. It is a very difficult decision to make, but in the long run it can save their lives. Alot of oppositional and defiant behavior starts with missing school, running away, etc.. Its just a thought, sometimes they are hospitalized for a few days to a few weeks. They have counseling and family therapy also. They have a treatments team that works with each patient. The doctors, social workers, art therapists, nurses, etc.. Find our what your resources are from the counselors. They also attend school while they are in the hospital, so they don't miss any work. I know that this is a very difficult time and you must not forget yourself; you might want to look into counseling also. Trust me, its not a bad thing. It just lifts alot off your shoulders when you know that you have a healthy support system. Good luck and be sure to ask the school what resources that are out there.

We have been to adolscent counseling with someone who was referred by her pedi. She was evaluated and we spent several weeks in counseling wither the two of us or just her. The counselor didn't see any major problems and closed her case. The one thing she agreed was that her grandparents were hurting her by not supporting me and my discipline. Fobidding them not to see her is just a whole HUGE can of worms is not something I can take on, because on the flip side they are amazing people who took me in when I was pregnant and are "grandparents" to my other girls moreso than DH's mom or mine. It's not really the both of them so much as grandpa. Nana just makes excuses for her and blames everything else. Hmmmm, I see where DD gets it from. Grandpa gets ticked at me and will hang up on me or have the biggest attitude. DD sees that and juices it like you would not believe. I could really go on Dr. Phil if I told you all the stories.

 

[daisyduck123]

If it were my DD she would have been punished severly enough the 1st time, that it would have never gotten to this point. It wouldn't have gotten to a 2nd time.

 

[tiff211]

Well, I grounded DD14 for at least the weekend until I could get more info from the school. I did allow her to go to see Chicken Little since it was a family outing but she had to clean out the car. On Saturday, She asked if she could go to her grandparents house. I told her no since she was punished. Sunday, her grandfather called and asked if she could go somewhere with him for the afternoon. I told him no since she had gotten in trouble in school. He says to me "I hope she doesn't breathe wrong one day and get in trouble for that". He caught me off guard since I was sick/sleeping so I didn't respond the way I might have if I had my wits about me. I just told him that messing up is something that I do not take lightly and he shouldn't either. I know she tells him she gets in "trouble" for little things and leaves out most of the story. When she was telling him why she got in trouble in school she said she got in trouble for being late. So I had her read the infractions word for word but I guess it still wasn't a big deal to him. That's an example of my frustrations as far as her grandfather is concerned.

I called the school this morning and spoke with the assistant principal. Turns out she was out last week with pneumonia and the sub assistant principal, who is retired wrote the note about her being sent back. The Asst. Principal said she was not being sent back and sometimes they just say that to scare the pants of the students. I was like "excuse me"???!!! Should you clue the parent in on this scare tactic? I have been tearing my hair out for the past 5 days thinking my child was going to be sent back to middle school. I also asked why did it come to this point before I am notified. She said they have over 1400 students and only one admin. asst. to send out the paperwork to the parents. Turns out she only had 10 detentions not 20 as DD said.

I am scheduling an appointment with her guidance counselor. DD's father will be in town the beginning of next week to pick her up for thanksgiving so hopefully we can do it then.

As far as her going to live with him, I don't know what to do anymore......... I honestly want what's best for her and if that means a new environment with her dad then so be it. She does have 2 sisters (10 and 4) and her stepmom's nephew (15) so the attention thing won't be much different.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

She does have 2 sisters (10 and 4) and her stepmom's nephew (15) so the attention thing won't be much different.

Wait! Are you saying that her blood sisters live with the dad and not her?

 

[tiff211]

Wait! Are you saying that her blood sisters live with the dad and not her?

She has 2 half sisters by her dad and stepmom that live with them and 3 half sisters by me and DH. SHe is the oldest.