Have you all heard about the new dining rules? Get aload of this:

[frannn]

Something about CRO being phased out and cancellation policies being 45 days with no penalty for everyone in the future (but this may not be the case, as per the CM I spoke to today. I believe the problem was that an AP holder who makes a reservation far in advance of discounted rates (just to have a room guaranteed to be waiting for them) would then get penalized with a cancellation fee once the AP rates finally came out (less than 45 days from your expected visit). I would think that once AP rates came out, it would be like trying to get a ressie for CRT for breakfast. I heard that Disney may be indirectly trying to discourage room only ressies. But then again, new policies usually get intrepreted a 1000 different ways by different CMs, so the fat lady hasn't sung on this one yet. But, on another note....where the heck are my Oct AP rates?????

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

According to Mouse Planet, that stupid new policy ended today and we are back to all being treated as equals. There must have been quite an uproar.

 

[mitros]

I wonder if the clown that thought that plan up was fired?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by mitros
I wonder if the clown that thought that plan up was fired?

FIRED!?!?! Are you nuts!!! A note of commendation was placed in his personnel folder. It isn't his fault that a bunch of malcontents on the internet caught on too quickly!!

Maybe next time his idea will work!! You have to encourage this type of thinking if we expect to stay solvent through the next quarter!!!

 

[d-r]

==

Originally posted by HB2K
So is it your stance that:

A) This policy was changed due to a dozen or so phone calls, letters, etc sent by hardcore ONLY disney fans from this or other sites?

or

B) The policy was changed due to a massive write in campaign by a large number of Disney customers?

I'm sorry....I don't see this policy being changed by a few Disney fan boards. There had to be some type of wide ranging impact that caused Disney to change this policy mid-implementation.

Clearly then you do not understand the situation.

There was no policy. There was no change of policy because there was nothing ever put in to place in the first place. There was nothing more than a rumor on Deb Will's page, a couple of threads on the Dis, and some confused CMs who verified parts of the rumor to that Scott guy with the PS calculater thing, and not parts of it, depending on when he called and who he talked to and which screen on their computer they were looking at. Oh it is not CRT. Oh wait, yes it is. No it isn't. But it is the Grand Floridian kid programs, No it isn't. Wait, maybe it is. There was never any communication about this from Disney - people had no way of hearing about it other than from these web sites. The "policy" never hapenned. I posted a few days ago that I spoke to someone at WDW and they told me that there was conflicting information about what would happen, that there was new information the day after the initial information - you know what, nothing was every put in to place, CMs were never authorized to discuss plans with people, and if someone hadn't leaked it to Deb Wills when they saw the initial version of it, it would have never been known. Case closed. It really doesn't matter if there is conflicting information to the cms before hand if it is not given to the guests, that's why we have a back stage, and in this case it never was on stage, except for the leak to Deb Wills and then to people who called after reading it on the internet - if you would read this and the other couple of threads about this you would see that often CMs at CRO told people not to worry about this, and not to believe everything they read on the internet. It was never on any official communication whatsoever. Yet somehow you believe there was this massive campaign that stopped this policy that never was. Good grief. That massive write in campaign that set off a change the very next day after the initial information went out. It just doesn't stand up to logic.
This "policey" was not changed "mid-implementation" because it was never implemented, and there was not a "wide ranging impact" because there was no way for a wider audience to have any knowledge of it.

Let's put this together. When CRO is eliminated,. and every one goes through WDTC, then everyone will have either a wdtc package or a dvc through member services. Everyone on property. Yes, even AP holders would book a room only package. The original idea was to give everyone staying on property 180 days to make a PS, but thanks to a few people reacting to an internet rumor it looks like they got cold feet. Look for it still to happen if WDTC becomes the only way to book a room. The problem with it was it hadn't taken in to account DVC, which could (would) have easily been done - it wouldn't have been in the initial information going out to WDTC, because dvc wouldn't go through wdtc, why would it specifically address dvc - it would be in the information going to MS, and our PS would go through them (with the advantage of being on the 800 number, which there will not be one of at CRO in January when the Disney Club is caput - do you see how this fits together, now).

Now I can understand people not wanting to give up CRO if they prefer CRO policies to the travel company's, but that was never the issue in this little internet fiasco. By the way, did you hear about that new Harry Potter attraction going in at Epcot?

I am actually looking forward to Jim Hill's next column.

 

[d-r]

PS I just went and read that mouseplanet "article" and it is not very accurate and just perpetuates the misinformation.

 

[DisneyKidds]

If it wasn't the customer revolt, if not as many people were informed of this change as you say....what made Disney abandon the change?

I do believe the good d-r has covered it, but did you ever consider the supposed new, stupid policy was never anything more than an unfounded rumor, hence Disney didn't have to "change" anything?

As for this "almost catastrophic change that almost drove away, or maybe did, what little was remaining of Disney's loyal fan base", if this is the best the naysayers can get on Disney about lately you really are grasping at straws .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Man oh man!! Work is really cutting into my DIS time!!! It’s hell trying to play catch-up every day!! Well, here’s a stab at one anyway…

D.R.

By the way, did you hear about that new Harry Potter attraction going in at Epcot?

Are you saying that your ‘Harry Potter’ rumor is analogous to the one you say started on Deb’s site? I assume you are otherwise the example is totally lost to me. So let’s go with that assumption.

Now, your first paragraph of that post was very well written. A cogent argument postulating the non-effect of this baseless ‘rumor’ and subsequent Internet backlash had on Disney management and a very strong (if not down right reasonable) contention that “there was no policy”. Very good indeed!!

You should have stopped there. But you didn’t. You went on with:

The original idea was to give everyone staying on property 180 days to make a PS, but thanks to a few people reacting to an internet rumor it looks like they got cold feet.

Like it says under Walt’s picture (courtesy of the tag fairy) whoa! And I do mean WHOA!!!!


You can’t have it both ways. Either there was NOTHING to the rumor or they did indeed have a plan or as you put it “The original idea” (read: policy). Just because the “plan” wasn’t fully implemented, or may have been in the final planning stages, doesn’t change it from being a “policy”. What matters is that in the minds of the administration (the setters of the ‘policy’) it was ‘policy’. It’s just that the ‘policy’ hadn’t taken effect yet. Yet being the operant word. I’m sure that in the course of business, day in and day out, you run across the same thing.

You really don’t want to argue semantics, do you? Policy, plan, “the original idea”… Does it really matter what terms we use? I see this as a classic case of “a rose is a rose”. Maybe you needed a qualifier. How about ‘impending’? What about ‘proposed’. Or perhaps future, imminent or looming (any good thesaurus will do)! The point is that the administration was giving this concept due consideration. And they stopped!! Or at least that is what was suggested by HB2K.

So which was it? Was the FUTURE policy:

… nothing more than a rumor on Deb Will's page, a couple of threads on the Dis, and some confused CMs who verified parts of the rumor to that Scott guy with the PS calculater thing, and not parts of it, depending on when he called and who he talked to and which screen on their computer they were looking at.

or was the FUTURE policy:

… to give everyone staying on property 180 days to make a PS…

You seem confused. Hmmmm. So am I!!


Now I’m not sure what type of campaign changed the impending ‘policy’. I don’t know if it was ‘massive’. But you seem to agree that something stopped it.

but thanks to a few people reacting to an internet rumor it looks like they got cold feet.

If that’s all it takes to shake up management then I would suspect that Beastly Kingdom is right around the corner!! And that’s not mention a certain Head Mouse being unceremoniously drummed out of the Kingdom!!! Heck!! I just hope I get the credit I deserve for the ouster!!! And to think, all it took was 4,000 words a post and a “$” inserted into his name!!


(Again, and just as an aside, if it were a baseless rumor, there’s nothing to get cold feet over, is there? I guess I’m confused again.)

 

[d-r]

I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear, there, Baron, and I apologize if I was confusing. Let me try to break it down a little more, and then, I am over it. We really are spending too much time on it. Anyway.

Do I think there was an idea? Yes, absolutely, I would even say I know it. I wasn't trying to deny that...on the contrary I was trying to clearly acknowledge that (and that was what caused the confusion, though, sorry). Do I think there was a plan, do I think it was on the company intranet, do I think that cro cms could access that information? Oh yes, absolutely, I am quite sure of it. I am also pretty sure that there was contradictory information on that intranet, and that things were changed and updated within a 24 hour period. I am also quite confident that the information was never intended to be on-stage. This is where you got confused, but to me it isn't a contradiction - there was a plan, there is a plan, it was put in to place. We got to glimps a little bit of the plan in a rough draft stage before it was worked out and smoothed out, and before it was intended to be told to guests. August 4 came and went, and a policy change took place: 90 day PS for all guests. THAT IS THE POLICY. Again, look at the threads on this site about this - the information that people received, if they received any - was different at different points in time - I'm thinking mostly of the Scott priorty seating guy.

What is contradictory is the idea that people would be angry about a policy - that WDTC guests could book at 180 days and other guests at 90 days - that was never a policy. It never happened. Was it an idea? A Plan? Something that was leaked to Deb Wills by someone in CRO before it should have been released to the public? Absolutely. But this is not the policy that ever took place. It never happened. It isn't clear to me how people can be angry about something that never happened. It becomes "real" when it is put in to place, not when it is planned.

An "idea" is not a "policy" until it is put in to place, now is it? I mean, somewhere in the design of my truck there may have been a fatal flaw that was discovered in the engineering stage and the design was changed and the flaw was never built - should I return my truck as defective? It is like some sort of minority report thought crime!

It is not "If we can dream it, it is done."Sometimes ideas have to be refined, sometimes not everyone has a complete picture of the idea, either. Also, I'm really NOT sure that the rumor that was reported by Deb was the whole story - are you? Again, it is very resonable for me to say that the information on the CRO screens did not specify DVC because there was NO NEED for them to - why would they?

And again, I maintain that aside from two or three internet sites, there was no way for anyone in the general public to be aware of this idea.

This isn't a case of "Both ways." Human enterprise is often more complex than a dichotomous either/or situation.

I hope you understand what I'm saying. If not, I don't know what to tell you. I tell you what, if anyone can find one person - just one single person - who held a travel company package and booked a PS 180 days out on Aug. 4 - or, even more interestingly, one single person who was quoted a wdtc package and was told that one of the perks would be making PS 180 days out, I'll be willing to continue this discussion and I'll revise my impression and understanding of this matter. Until then, it is just fantasy, frankly.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

D.R. I understand. And you are right. We are spending too much time on this. But I still havet two remaining thoughts. Kind of leftovers, if you will.

It isn't clear to me how people can be angry about something that never happened.

Well, I would be more than a little upset if my wife decided to call a lawyer for a divorce, but then decided not to because she was ‘pressured’ out of it.

It becomes "real" when it is put in to place, not when it is planned.

Yes that’s when it becomes ‘real’. But the disappointment and even anger comes way before that point. As in my wife calling the lawyer, it is the ‘original thought’ that would bother me. It almost doesn't matter if she actually placed the call, the mere thought of it would be enough to send me over the edge. It shows thought process. It shows direction. And so it is in this case. Again, it is just another example of how blatantly arrogant and out of touch management really is.

It is like some sort of minority report thought crime!

Even though I don’t agree, I like the concept and the wording of this sentence! I wish I would have said it!! (You also have a movie reference!! Two of them!! Congratulations!! )

 

[d-r]

As in my wife calling the lawyer, it is the ‘original thought’ that would bother me.

Aye, of course it would.

Land Baron do you remember three's company? How it always worked on every episode?

Chrissy would over hear something and draw a wrong conclusion, She'd tell Janet and they would get bent out of shape, Larry would get slapped, Jack would get dumped, and then every one would figure out it was a misunderstanding and Mrs. Roper would try to get Mr. Roper to get frisky.

So what if you overheard your wife talking on the phone, and you thought she was thinking about a divorce with your lawyer when she said "I want to really give him the shaft," but actually she was having a fly rod custom made for you by a bamboo craftsman?

But this isn't your wife, and it isn't one person making a decision, it is a complex organization with different people with different bits of imformation at a given time, and different levels of oversight and channels of communication. Sometimes things get revamped before they go public.

OK let's be done, I understand your point.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Okay... now I'm confused. I read and responded to the other thread that was linked to originally in this thread.
So as of now... it's 90 days out except for the restaurants listed there.... RIGHT? Or not? I don't know if I can trust the websites I used to trust on finding out how many days prior to make specific PS's or not... after reading this thread!

So I guess I call WDW tomorrow and ask. *confused now*