Has Disney let Universal Catch Up In All Market Segments?

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
Because there now happen to be 4 parks. But again I don't see Michael Eisner holding a gun to a guests head telling them that they HAVE to go to Animal Kingdom. Taking your reasoning into effect, suppose that Disney only offered a 3 day hopper, the "uninformed" public would end up shelling out more money to pay for a one day pass to the 4th park of their choice if they do decide to go to a 4th park.

So is that why Universal doesn't offer any type of hopper pass? So your forced to either buy another one day pass or their second day/second park pass.

We used hopper passes at the Universal parks last week and they have quite a few variations. They offer two day hoppers, two day hoppers with a third day free and the 5 consecutive days hoppers. We got the 5 consecutive days hoppers and used three days which was still a good deal with each costing under $90.

By the way, Jim Hill has reported that Universal does have the LOTR and Harry Potter rights http://www.jimhillmedia.com/nav4/index.htm?../articles/08142002.1.htm~contentFrame I guess that only time will tell.

 

[EUROPA]

Universal does have theme park rights to LOTR and HP.

Speaking of Peter Jackson: Here's one reason that Disney's infamous Imagineers envy the folks at Universal Creative: Universal has the theme park rights to use all of J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" characters to build new shows and rides around. And here's another reason why Mickey gets jealous whenever anyone ever brings up Universal: You know J.K. Rowling's highly popular "Harry Potter" series. Universal Studios has the theme park rights to all of those characters as well.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/nav4/index.htm?../articles/08142002.1.htm~contentFrame

 

[Planogirl]

GMTA Europa.

 

[EUROPA]

Yeah I guess so.

In fact the rumor that I heard has a very large castle as the centerpiece of Universal's Third Park.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Planogirl
By the way, Jim Hill has reported that Universal does have the LOTR and Harry Potter rights http://www.jimhillmedia.com/nav4/index.htm?../articles/08142002.1.htm~contentFrame I guess that only time will tell.

So because it was reported by the Jim Hill media it must be true. Besides Jim Hill or the site itself what information do they have to back up that claim?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Planogirl
We used hopper passes at the Universal parks last week and they have quite a few variations. They offer two day hoppers, two day hoppers with a third day free and the 5 consecutive days hoppers. We got the 5 consecutive days hoppers and used three days which was still a good deal with each costing under $90.

How long has the 5 consecutive days been around? I don't remember seeing that when I was there in January. The problem that I see with the Universal tickets though is that it appears that the days expire on them. So what happens if you buy the 5 day pass and only use one day on it? Do the days expire?

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
How long has the 5 consecutive days been around? I don't remember seeing that when I was there in January. The problem that I see with the Universal tickets though is that it appears that the days expire on them. So what happens if you buy the 5 day pass and only use one day on it? Do the days expire?

I don't know how long it's been around, I spotted it on the Universal website just a few months ago. And yes, it is restrictive in that the days do expire if I understand it right. Which seems to be why a lot of people are going for the annual power pass at just about $100 but I don't like this one because the dates are restricted. If I could go again within a year, I would have gotten the unrestricted annual pass for $150 which also includes a lot of discounts. I liked the 5 day pass because even if I went for only two days, I still saved money and I could park hop. Plus we could use the Universal Express feature which was nice with some of the more popular attractions like MIB and BTTF.

As far as Jim Hill being correct or not, I do tend to have a lot of faith in his reports but of course he isn't infallible which is why I stated that only time will tell.

 

[HB2K]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
Because there now happen to be 4 parks. But again I don't see Michael Eisner holding a gun to a guests head telling them that they HAVE to go to Animal Kingdom. Taking your reasoning into effect, suppose that Disney only offered a 3 day hopper, the "uninformed" public would end up shelling out more money to pay for a one day pass to the 4th park of their choice if they do decide to go to a 4th park.

So is that why Universal doesn't offer any type of hopper pass? So your forced to either buy another one day pass or their second day/second park pass.

Not meant to be a personal attack, but if you don't know what you're talking about shouldn't you look it up before making these statements?

A) I only want to spend one day of my vacation in each park. If I want Park Hopping privledges, I am FORCED to either purchase a day @ DAK or I am FORCED to spend another day in the same park....which is what I didn't want to do. Either way Disney is forcefully getting another admission from it's customer.

B) Universal DOES offer a 2 or 3 day park hopper pass.

 

[HB2K]

Really? Only one by my count. Mickey's Philharmagic is taking over the space that the Lion King show once was in. The other two are going to be attractions built from the bottom up. Both Universal shows, Neutron and Shrek are using show elements that are already in place in their old shows.

Mission:Space is a replacement for Horizons. AS with the Mission:Space replacement of Horizons, it's my understanding that the Shrek attraction has ZERO remenants of the Hitchcock attraction.

 

[HB2K]

I'm left wondering what "theme" Universal could do next, without seeming like they are taking a que from Disney. Another thrill park? Why? When they could expand on IOA. An animal park? No. Not after the inital horror show of Animal Kingdom. An educational park? Epcot anyone? I'm not trying to make an attack, just wondering where they could go.

If one was so inclined, I could think of ways to make a whole park around one movie.

Lord of the rings, with all of it's detailed worlds, could make quite a park.

How long has the 5 consecutive days been around? I don't remember seeing that when I was there in January. The problem that I see with the Universal tickets though is that it appears that the days expire on them. So what happens if you buy the 5 day pass and only use one day on it? Do the days expire?

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the park hoppers at Universal is the unused "paid for" days do not expire.

If you purchase a 2 day park hopper, and you get a third day for free and you use one day, the free day expires within 7 days, but the paid for second day does not.

On this I could be wrong, so I'll wait for someone else to confirm it.

So because it was reported by the Jim Hill media it must be true. Besides Jim Hill or the site itself what information do they have to back up that claim?

How are you backing up your claim?

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm not a U/IOA pumper and in fact have never been there, nor do I really have the desire to expend the necessary effort to leave WDW and go there.

Thank you, Matt, for the most significant point in this entire discussion. How can anyone believe that Universal has caught up when even those who find most fault with Disney can't be lured to the Universal offerings? If Universal had caught up in most (forget all) market segments and is doing things so much better than Disney, how come you aren't beating down the USF/IOA doors?

But to their audience, U/IoA is not considered 2 1/2 day parks. Much of Disney's audience, however, consders AK to be a 1/2 day park.

You are are shaky ground here. First off, you yourself point out that USF or IOA don't provide enough compelling attractions to even make them half day parks for many. To you, and to many more, they are no day parks. The number of people that go to Disney and not to Universal while in Orlando is probably huge. The number that go to Universal and not to Disney............how small do yo think that one is? That says an awful lot.

As for how many of whose guest think in terms of half day..................... I think you overstate when you say 'much' of Disney's audience when it comes to AK. What do you have to base that on? A relatively small group on an internet bulletin board? Furthermore, what is your basis for concluding that some/most/all (?) of Universal's audience doesn't consider the parks 'less than full day'? Not like you have anywhere near the number of people talking on line about these parks (which also says a lot, doesn't it ). Bottom line is that I'm sure there are just as many people who would consider these parks 'half day' (for whatever their reason) as you will find at any other park - and that ignores the people who flat out have no desire to even show up.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by HB2K
Mission:Space is a replacement for Horizons. AS with the Mission:Space replacement of Horizons, it's my understanding that the Shrek attraction has ZERO remenants of the Hitchcock attraction.

Replacement and retooling are completely different things. Mission: SPACE is replacing where Horizons was, but the building was completely demolished and started from scratch on the ground up. Shrek is going into a pre-fab building that is just being customized to accompany the new special effects. Cost saving measure? Yes. But I feel then that Universal is limiting themselves on this particular attraction, by not being able to provide a new space for this show they are limiting themselves to a certain available space.

If one was so inclined, I could think of ways to make a whole park around one movie.

I don't think that anyone would make a park exclusively to one movie. The demographic factors just aren't there, not everyone is in to the fantasy genre.

How are you backing up your claim?

This is from a Theme Park insider trade magazine: Warner Brothers is also reported to be looking into designing a Harry Potter theme park.

HARRY POTTER, characters, names and related indicia and WARNER BROS.,
shield logo and related indicia are trademarks of Warner Bros. TM & © 2003.
Harry Potter Publishing Rights © J.K.R. This was pulled from the WB movie site.

It is all in a matter of where you look or who you talk to, everyone has a different story and a different "source", so until an official statement or announcement is made, I'm not holding my breath.

Universal DOES offer a 2 or 3 day park hopper pass.

Is that something new also? When I was there in January they only had Annual Passes and one day passes, but you could purchase a second day/second park pass while you were in either of the parks. I didn't see anything about hopper passes, as I would have picked one up. Why? I'm not a fan of the studios, but I sure would have liked to skip some of the stuff at IOA to do the few things I like at the Studios.

 

[crusader]

Shrek is going into a pre-fab building that is just being customized to accompany the new special effects. Cost saving measure? Yes. But I feel then that Universal is limiting themselves on this particular attraction, by not being able to provide a new space for this show they are limiting themselves to a certain available space.

Why is this? Does the park have buildout limitations or is it to streamline the contruction by using an existing permitted facility. UO has an entirely different set of rules and regs to comply with than WDW.

How can anyone believe that Universal has caught up when even those who find most fault with Disney can't be lured to the Universal offerings? If Universal had caught up in most (forget all) market segments and is doing things so much better than Disney, how come you aren't beating down the USF/IOA doors?

They haven't caught up in terms of magnitude but they have been successfully drawing from the same market segment. They do provide attractions which are extremely competitive in terms of design and effects - and yes, families are splitting their vacation time between the two venues more and more.

But no, UO will probably never surpass WDW in scope and capacity - they are much too limited.

 

[DisneyKidds]

They haven't caught up in terms of magnitude but they have been successfully drawing from the same market segment.

Sure, it is inevitable that they will attract some people from the same market segments, but were talking about catching up here. I just don't see it.

UO will probably never surpass WDW in scope and capacity - they are much too limited.

Limited how? In terms of acreage for new venues? I'll give you that. However, we can look past that to see whether Universal has successfully caught up. Take Disney's best park vs. Universal's. That precludes the limitations of which you speak, yet Universal isn't in the same ballpark. The best Universal can hope for is that their best park will pick off Disney's worst. That hardly screams 'caught up in all market segments' to me.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by Eyesnur
I haven't noticed anything freaky at all and I usually type standing on my head, drinking rum and singing 'Fat Bottomed Girls'...But thats just me...I'll let you know if anything weird happens!

Mr. Eyesnur - a quick question for you - check your PM.

 

[crusader]

However, we can look past that to see whether Universal has successfully caught up. Take Disney's best park vs. Universal's.

Which two are these? I will assume MK vs IOA. In this example, MK wins by a landslide in quantity. Now take a look at quality.

There are comparable excellences in JP and Splash.

There are no comparables against Spiderman - unless you are considering the technology of yesterday in HM or PoC with the tech of today - which may be a stretch.

Space Mountain vs Hulk? Jury is out on this one.
What about Dueling Dragons - vs???? BTMRR - not really the same at all.

Fantasyland? Here you've got me. No match from IOA

Mickeys toontown vs Suess Island? IOA wins

In trying to apply this, I think the truth is you can't really do it. UO may actually be providing competition utilizing a two park framework against a threepark approach from WDW. (EPCOT cannot fit in this formula)
In this regard, no they have not caught up. The real question is - can they and will they eventually develop into that dynamic?

 

[LIFERBABE]

Last June we spent a week of vacation in Florida. We had every intention of making WDW our major destination and US/IOA a side trip.

We purchased AP's for US/IOA for $99 and 4-day Hopper passes for WDW at twice the cost.

With the reduced hours WDW had at that time and it being our first time to MK, Epcot and MGM with 2 small children, I knew it would be close to impossible to "hop" from park to park if we were'nt there when the park was open. We don't like to open the parks and prefer to have leisurely mornings when on vacation.
US/IOA had reduced operating hours also, but since we had AP's we could go as much as we pleased and not have to worry about using "days" on our hoppers and not really hopping. I felt like we should have just bought day passes because if you can't hop you've spent the additional money for nothing.

I know WDW has 4 parks and US has 2, but 2 is about all the hopping we could do in 1 day anyway, and since US you can walk to either park it makes it more conducive to hopping than having to take transp. to another park.

We ended up going to US/IOA 4 days of our vacation and MK 1 day. We really enjoyed US. My boys were 3 and 5 yrs and they were thrilled to see Spidey, Rugrats and Spongebob, Scooby Doo, Curious George, and all the characters from Nickelodeon.

We are set to return and know we will visit both parks.
We found the food and souvenirs to be much more reasonable at US than at WDW. We had a great time at MK and the boys enjoyed that also. I do think that if US continues to offer an affordable alternative to WDW and provide nicer accomodations and perks that they will continue to gain, but never eclipse WDW. I still say "we're going to WDW" and my boys liken the entire experience both WDW and US/IOA to that statement.

Kinda like calling a cotton swab a Q-Tip.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Which two are these? I will assume MK vs IOA. In this example, MK wins by a landslide in quantity. Now take a look as quality.

Forget quantily. Forget quality. While I've never been, I'll stipulate that UO has some darn good stuff. They have made gains. They will probably make more. However, if they were to 'catch up in all market segment' would that not mean that they would attract an equal number of quests? All of UO (that would be both USF and IOA combined) doesn't outdraw the MK. How can that be if Universal's offerings have caught Disney in every market segment?

 

[crusader]

However, if they were to 'catch up in all market segment' would that not mean that they would attract an equal number of quests?

Not unless you are defining market segment as market share here. The park can be substantially less in size and offer all of the same things but simply could never accomodate an equal number of guests.

Arguably, you are absolutely right - UO has not caught up. But they have taken some of that market share and will continue to attract more and more guests. You cannot simply dismiss the probability that at some future point the number of guests may be surprisingly comparable on any given day.

 

[DisneyKidds]

The park can be substantially less in size and offer all of the same things but simply could never accomodate an equal number of guests.

True enough I suppose. How does IOA or USF compare size wise to the MK? Is either one 'substantially less in size'. How about USF and IOA combined vs. MK. Not to belabor the point, but is the size of the UO parks what is holding their attendance down?

You cannot simply dismiss the probability that at some future point the number of guests may be surprisingly comparable on any given day.

Not dsimissing anything. I may not think it will happen, but I can't outright dismiss the notion. However, as you point out it is nowhere near happening yet. I suppose some will say that attendance is in no way reflective of performance by market segment, but I don't see how that could be.