Has anyone else had enough of this Paula Dean buisness?

[penn19]

To me, the whole blending in with the blackboard is no different from the picture below that was all over Facebook. Why hasn't anyone had an issue with this? Because the person is white?

I agree with that. I am an Irish girl and I thought it was funny when I saw it on FB. I laugh when I hear Irish jokes also but....

I am sure someone will be along shortly to correct me that it absolutely it isn't the same thing.

 

[OceanAnnie]

If you read the deposition, it's way more than one word used one time. It's a repeated pattern of looking the other way when offensive or stereotypical "jokes" are made at others expense. And making excuses for behavior that would not be tolerated in most companies.

I imagine that her business partners read the deposition word for word and then decided to part ways...

I was speaking to the court of public opinion. Paula Deen isn't the first or last person white or black to make "jokes" about anything, but it is interesting how some are overlooked by the public and and others are a cause of outrage.

Just interesting to me.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I was speaking to the court of public opinion. Paula Deen isn't the first or last person white or black to make "jokes" about anything, but it is interesting how some are overlooked by the public and and others are a cause of outrage.

Just interesting to me.

For the billionth time, owning a restaurant that requires a separate entrance for black employees is not a joke.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Why hasn't anyone had an issue with this? Because the person is white?

I'm Irish. I think that's hysterical.

But if someone from England says ANYTHING about potatoes, they are going to hear it. Can you guess why?

 

[eliza61]

I just find it very strange. Seems like a double standard. That word is in music and movies and it's used all kinds of ways. Same with "cracker". That's in music and movies too. Why do some get a pass on the use and others are destroyed? How is it offensive on one hand and acceptable/used as part of a product to make money on the other? For the segment of society that doesn't use that word, why aren't they as offended by the entertainment industry as they are by Paula Deen? It's odd to me.

To me, the whole blending in with the blackboard is no different from the picture below that was all over Facebook. Why hasn't anyone had an issue with this? Because the person is white?

It very much seems like a double standard but what you have to remember OA is that it's very much steep in history and that historical aspect is hard to separate.


WARNING!! lol, remember guys this is just one black persons take on the topic. I am not an authority on any thing (as my children seem fond of telling me.

first there is the fear factory. Remember for much of this country's history, a white person calling you a N-word could have deadly consequences. I'm not talking just getting into a fight, I'm talking about simply not stepping off the sidewalk when a white women passed could get you killed. Now lot's of folks think this is long ago history but look at it this way. My mom was a civil rights attorney, I remember it and thus share these stories with my sons. So to my sons, this isn't ancient history.

The supreme court just threw out the voter right act. Now many white folk say "times have changed" we don't need it anymore. let me say for most black folks we see this as an attempt to simply get our vote discounted and to turn back the hands of time to the 1950's We view it as another attempt to make sure we (blacks) never again get empowered to vote. Remember almost all the strides made in civil rights were made through the courts and through voting. Many specifically believe it is so another African american will never get elected again as president.. We remember and we remember well the abuse we took just to get to vote now.

Now there was a backlash against many rappers especially the gangster rappers against their lyrics and especially against those god awful videos. Don't even get me started on the fights in my house because it's banned. A women named C. Delaros Tucker (fascinating women guys, go google.) spent most of her life fighting the entertainment industry. most mainstream R & B stations will bleep out the word. So basically rappers get a pass because in the realm of how they are perceived they don't have much power. there is not that fear that underneath the words is some one who will try to resinstate Jim crow all over again. May not be a rational fear but it is a very real fear.

look at it this way, if you have a son and he gets pulled over by the police the worst you worry about is him getting a ticket. I have to teach my son that saying the wrong thing to a police officer in 2013 can get him killed. My sons when they were taught to drive also took a class on what not to do and how to answer the police. Because paranoid or not, in this country an African American kid driving a lexus is often equated with a drug dealer. I can't take the chance that I'm over blowing it. I have no choice but to teach my son's these things.

 

[OceanAnnie]

If you read the deposition, it's way more than one word used one time. It's a repeated pattern of looking the other way when offensive or stereotypical "jokes" are made at others expense. And making excuses for behavior that would not be tolerated in most companies.

I imagine that her business partners read the deposition word for word and then decided to part ways...

You do make an interesting point. Most "companies" don't tolerate what you outline, yet there are companies endorse and promote people that do those very things. Society tolerates those very things, to a point because it exists. You can say you don't like it, but it's there. No outrage. There is a tipping point and I think it hinges on "who" says it, not what is said.

 

[OceanAnnie]

For the billionth time, owning a restaurant that requires a separate entrance for black employees is not a joke.

For the first time, I never said it was. I was referring to the global issue, not specifics. Thank you.

It very much seems like a double standard but what you have to remember OA is that it's very much steep in history and that historical aspect is hard to separate.


WARNING!! lol, remember guys this is just one black persons take on the topic. I am not an authority on any thing (as my children seem fond of telling me.

first there is the fear factory. Remember for much of this countries history, a white person saying this could have deadly consequences. I'm not talking just getting into a fight, I'm talking about simply not stepping off the sidewalk when a white women passed could get you killed. Now lot's of folks think this is long ago history but look at it this way. My mom was a civil rights attorney, I remember it and thus share these stories with my sons. So to my sons, this isn't ancient history.

The supreme court just threw out the voter right act. Now many white folk say "times have changed" we don't need it anymore. let me say for most black folks we see this as an attempt to simply get our vote discounted. We view it as another attempt to make sure we (blacks) never again get empowered to vote. Many specifically believe it is so another African american will never get elected again. We remember and we remember well the abuse we took just to get to vote now.

So basically rappers get a pass because there is not that fear that underneath the words is some one who will try to resinstate Jim crow all over again. May not be a rational fear but it is a very real fear.

Hi, E.

Thanks for acknowledging it. I think we can have an honest discussion about it. We have broached it before without any ill will. You know I don't have any.

I think there is this chasm involving perspectives that people are afraid to talk about. To a degree I think that plays into reactions of people when it comes to race.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Note I am talking specific about the United States.

Irish are Caucasians. Other Caucasians are also white. Irish were not discriminated against because they were pale. You wouldn't necessarily know if someone was Irish specifically by how pale their skin was.

Irish were recognized more by accent, last name, religion, "number of children". They were persecuted because of the perception of being perpetually drunk, Catholic, and "takin' yer jobs!"

Make all the pale jokes you want. You're just as white. That doesn't phase me. You are also likely American. American history with Irish persecution pales in comparison to Africans.

THAT's the difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

 

[frndshpcptn]

You do make an interesting point. Most "companies" don't tolerate what you outline, yet there are companies endorse and promote people that do those very things. Society tolerates those very things, to a point because it exists. You can say you don't like it, but it's there. No outrage. There is a tipping point and I think it hinges on "who" says it, not what is said.

Harassment in the workplace and a company promoting Howard Stern saying outrageous things for entertainment shock value are two very different things. She was being deposed because of ongoing harassment issues in the restaurant her brother runs. That should not be tolerated, if proved true.

The deposition brought to light the more unsavory things that she has either said or not admonished when being said over time. And yes, because of who she is she will get more negative attention. She's known as a sassy but sweet gray haired lady who cooks yummy food with a Southern drawl. She's not an envelope pushing musician or comedian or someone who makes their living saying things that are jaw dropping. So yes, there is a different expectation for her behavior than for others. If it came out that Eminem or Jay-Z had said something offensive, no one would (really) bat an eye. Because that's their schtick. It's not her, so it's a bigger deal.

 

[penn19]

Note I am talking specific about the United States.

Irish are Caucasians. Other Caucasians are also white. Irish were not discriminated against because they were pale. You wouldn't necessarily know if someone was Irish specifically by how pale their skin was.

Irish were recognized more by accent, last name, religion, "number of children". They were persecuted because of the perception of being perpetually drunk, Catholic, and "takin' yer jobs!"

Make all the pale jokes you want. You're just as white. That doesn't phase me. You are also likely American. American history with Irish persecution pales in comparison to Africans.

THAT's the difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentimen

Forgive me. I'm feeling "blonde" today. Or maybe I'm just a dumb Mic. I don't know. But they were still persecuted, correct? Thats what you said above. A stereotype about the Irish meant they were discriminated against. Do people think that ALL Irish are/were perpetually drunk, Catholic and had hordes of kids?

 

[2Kds2K9]

ARGH. Now I see that Target has dropped her as well.

I think this whole thing is unfortunate and getting blown out of proportion daily. Yes, she was wrong. However, as she stated in her apology, very few of us can say we never said something off color or offensive. She just happens to be in the public eye and was truthful in stating she used the N word in a conversation.

Yes, I've read the other accusations as well and don't think that her comments were meant in a mean or degrading manner. I think she is a product of how, where and when she was raised. Does it make it right? No, but it makes one understand a little better. Just as these rappers today use the N word all the time and sing/rap about offending ideas. Until they stop, it will always be out there.

By these companies dropping her, they are not only hurting her, they are hurting those who worked for her. There are many people who will now be out of a job because of this fiasco.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[phorsenuf]

Note I am talking specific about the United States.

Irish are Caucasians. Other Caucasians are also white. Irish were not discriminated against because they were pale. You wouldn't necessarily know if someone was Irish specifically by how pale their skin was.

Irish were recognized more by accent, last name, religion, "number of children". They were persecuted because of the perception of being perpetually drunk, Catholic, and "takin' yer jobs!"

Make all the pale jokes you want. You're just as white. That doesn't phase me. You are also likely American. American history with Irish persecution pales in comparison to Africans.

THAT's the difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentimen

I see. So the only discrimination that can happen is against black people. The hell with all others. Got it.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Harassment in the workplace and a company promoting Howard Stern saying outrageous things for entertainment shock value are two very different things. She was being deposed because of ongoing harassment issues in the restaurant her brother runs. That should not be tolerated, if proved true.

The deposition brought to light the more unsavory things that she has either said or not admonished when being said over time. And yes, because of who she is she will get more negative attention. She's known as a sassy but sweet gray haired lady who cooks yummy food with a Southern drawl. She's not an envelope pushing musician or comedian or someone who makes their living saying things that are jaw dropping. So yes, there is a different expectation for her behavior than for others. If it came out that Eminem or Jay-Z had said something offensive, no one would (really) bat an eye. Because that's their schtick. It's not her, so it's a bigger deal.

Something is wrong with that to me. Selective outrage. Either it's offensive or it's not.

You are ascribing it as schtick. Many entertainers you don't know if it's schtick or not.

You are right on one point. No one bats an eye.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I see. So the only discrimination that can happen is against black people. The hell with all others. Got it.

The vast, vast majority of racial discrimination in this country is against Blacks and Muslims. I’m sorry if you don’t like the truth.

 

[phorsenuf]

The vast, vast majority of racial discrimination in this country is against Blacks and Muslims. I’m sorry if you don’t like the truth.

I'm not stupid, I'm well aware. I was referring to the post about the Irish. Just because their (or Italians, or Asian) discrimination may not as prevalent, it doesn't mean they should be poo-pooed, does it?

 

[Nancyg56]

You do make an interesting point. Most "companies" don't tolerate what you outline, yet there are companies endorse and promote people that do those very things. Society tolerates those very things, to a point because it exists. You can say you don't like it, but it's there. No outrage. There is a tipping point and I think it hinges on "who" says it, not what is said.

I think that part of it is that you pick your audience. I don't pretend to listen to rap music, but I know some of the language and the violence against women is terrible. The music that glorifies that behavior is never ever in my home. DD knows that if she plays music in my presence, while I don;t care about the genre, I will not tolerate the graphic choices.

So if I am spending my money on products, services and advertising, I am going to make sure that I remember who is my audience. PD has offended a lot of people, does not seem to have an antennae to gauge that she is not making it better, so I would distance myself from her.

Forgive me. I'm feeling "blonde" today. Or maybe I'm just a dumb Mic. I don't know. But they were still persecuted, correct? Thats what you said above. A stereotype about the Irish meant they were discriminated against. Do people think that ALL Irish are/were perpetually drunk, Catholic and had hordes of kids?

You just used the word that my father would have washed my mouth out if I used. Dumb "Mick" is not nice, it is very offensive to many people of Irish descent. Even if the person who uses it is Irish.

And we can talk about the persecution of the Irish immigrants who came here not that long ago. And we can talk about some of the names they were called.

 

[Wendy31]

For the billionth time, owning a restaurant that requires a separate entrance for black employees is not a joke.

Actually, the restaurant (both restaurants, I believe) have separate employee restrooms & separate entrances - for all their employees.

Now, as to whether or not both white & black employee were equally made to use the employee restrooms or entrances, I don't know.

I am a southerner. And I'm white. While I am not proud of everything that has happened in our history - whether it be our southern, American, or world history - I am proud to be southern.

I am not a racist. I was not raised in a racist household, & I hate the way stories like this paint all southerners. There is more to the south, more to our story, than this stereotype.

That said, as I said in the other thread, I don't know whether or not Paula Dean is a racist or not. I think she is guilty of lack of oversight of her businesses (&, in doing so, failing to ensure an harassment-free environment for her employees), & her blind defense of her brother is tragic.

There are many layers to this case. I read both the deposition & the claim. And the issue is not just whether or not Paula Dean said the n-word years ago. For me, the issue is what she failed to see was happening, &, by her not "seeing," she was, in effect, condoning what was happening.

She expected Lisa Jackson to do what every other southern woman (in Paula's view) does & "cover" for the men - "boys will be boys"... "it is the way it is." A fatal flaw was seeing in Lisa Jackson a confidante or a woman w/ a like mentality - she failed to understand that Lisa Jackson was an employee. And Paula Deen was too easily distracted, too "busy," & too proud & too sure of her own esteemed status & celebrity to take time to listen to reports.

Now, I'm not saying she's not racist. I'm sure, whether she admits it or not, she still is living w/ that old "southern way".

But, like others have said, I find the persecution of Paula Deen a little too much. I'm not defending her or supporting her. And I'm not saying she shouldn't have to answer for the ways she allowed her businesses to be run. But I think she's being attacked for the wrong reasons.

And the truth probably lies somewhere between the deposition & the claim.

I'm offended when Kanye West sings the n-word as much as I am when I hear a 65 year old southern man say it. I'm as offended when I hear two girls jokingly call each other a b- as I am when Eminem calls me that in a song. Her idea of a plantation wedding is just as exploitative as a Playboy mansion party w/ server girls in bikinis & bunny ears.

And, as an aside, when rappers & kids call each other the n-word or the b-word or whatever, it does nothing to progress our genders & races &, instead, in a sense, creates more of a "difference," more of a separation. And it only serves to perpetuate the problems & to trivialize the issues. It's not entertainment. It's not cool.

Anyway, I found this blog post today which is written by Maria Dixon, an African American Ph.D. As I read it, I actually got a little teary.

http://http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mariadixonhall/2013/06/saying-grace-paula-deen-progressives-and-race/

From her post...

When it comes to discussing race, progressives have little tolerance for intolerancepast or present. We throw labels around as easily as the Pharisees threw stones at adulterous women. How dare someone not have OUR enlightened view on the world! How dare they not have been born with the innate view of justice, righteousness, and soul that we have!

So when Paula Deens transcript was leaked to the press last week, the script was already in place. The media would report that she used the N wordeverybody would gaspthen the outrage would begin. She would be crucified by the New York Times, Facebook pundits, and of course, her fellow chefs. She would be tried by the court of public opinion who would judge her entire lifes work and character by the use of the N word in a private conversation. RACIST! we would yell. She would cry. Her business would be destroyed and progressives would declare victory.

Yet, here is the reality: Deen told the truth about her past. Knowing everything: her empire, her contracts, and sponsorships were at stakeshe told the truth. She was more honest under oath than at least 3 US Presidents, several dozen Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, and Non-Denominational preachers and countless business leaders. Unlike the Pope, Joe Paterno, or Donald Trump, she acknowledged she hadnt always gotten it right but that she and her company was committed to doing it better and were doing better.

Lets get this straight. I am not condoning anyone calling me or anyone who looks like me by any racial slur. But neither am I going to kill someones career because they admit that they have in anger, fear, or IN THE PAST have used one. Here it is in a nutshellPaula Deen has used the N word. She has either told or listened to racial jokes. She has probably said stuff and joked about stuff that went over the line. So here is the dilemma my oh so righteous progressive friendsany one who hasntplease step right up and throw the first stone. But before you reach down to pick it up, you better check YouTube; your best friends IPHONE; your high school squeezes slam book; or your grandmas video tapes before you do.

What really angers me is the fact that most of the people really tripping about Deens past are from the North. Thats not to say that Southern African Americans are passive about the use of racial slurs but we are also aware of the reality that mindsets dont all change at the same pace and that if we judged every white southerner over the age of 50 by what they said in the past, we could never buy a car; house, or eat in a Waffle House ever again. Perhaps the reason that much of the civil rights establishment, the men and women who got their heads beat in on the regular, have not condemned Paula Deen is because they know the complexity of the human heart on matters of race. Moreover, they are also aware that someones past doesnt predict their present. Perhaps they remembered that the same George Wallace that stood in the door at the University of Alabama saying that Blacks would never be welcomed, returned in 1985 to the campus to crown and kiss that years Black Homecoming Queen, my sorority sister Deidra Chestang at a time when our campus was threatening to boil over in racial turmoil. That kiss silenced the bigots that day and his words begged all of us to embrace a new South. Though we lost that game to Vanderbilt, that kiss symbolized the magnificent change that Gods grace can make in a mans heart. Many African Americans are standing by Deen, especially those that through the years she has launched into business because they are judging her actions as well as her words.

The South, which houses the largest concentration of African American wealth, politicians, PhDs, doctors, lawyers, and yes, even the most Division I head coaches in the 8 time BCS juggernaut SEC is no longer the black and white film of Eyes on the Prize. It aint perfect. God knows it isnt. Racism still exists in the Southas it does in the North, as it does in the East, as it does in the West. It still exists because people are not perfect. It exists because fear is far more comfortable than love. Yet a whole region of people should not be condemn because of its past and neither should a person.

 

[eliza61]

Something is wrong with that to me. Selective outrage. Either it's offensive or it's not.

You are ascribing it as schtick. Many entertainers you don't know if it's schtick or not.

You are right on one point. No one bats an eye.

And that in itself is very dangerous because generally when an entertainer does it as a stick in order to keep him/herself relevant they have to ramp it up.

My other concern is that when we call each other these things as entertainment we say that they are acceptable.

I tell my sons all the time, no way in heckdom am I going to give you money for you to buy a song where some guy is calling me a "B*&%tch" just not gonna happen. So when the "coolness" of those lyrics get old what does a rapper do next to sell a record?

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm not stupid, I'm well aware. I was referring to the post about the Irish. Just because their (or Italians, or Asian) discrimination may not as prevalent, it doesn't mean they should be poo-pooed, does it?

It should not be Poopooed at all. It was outrageous.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-09-17/community/hc-quinnipiac-irish-famine-20120917_1_lahey-irish-art-famine


I believe that in this country alone, there is enough bigotry and racism against one group or another to go around. We do nto need to one up each other in this very nasty aspect of our history.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I think that part of it is that you pick your audience. I don't pretend to listen to rap music, but I know some of the language and the violence against women is terrible. The music that glorifies that behavior is never ever in my home. DD knows that if she plays music in my presence, while I don;t care about the genre, I will not tolerate the graphic choices.

So if I am spending my money on products, services and advertising, I am going to make sure that I remember who is my audience. PD has offended a lot of people, does not seem to have an antennae to gauge that she is not making it better, so I would distance myself from her.

Exactly.