Hardened hearts

[momz]

What has happenned in our society that elementary aged children can speak so cruely to each other. the days of the school yard bully being the kid that stole your lunch money, or knocked your books out of your hand are over. Now it's more about using words to emotionally toy with others. What is the point of that? How do you teach your child to respond? How can it be overcome?

 

[barkley]

i don't think it's anything new.

i'm 49 and was a bully magnet growing up. i remember kids saying horrendously cruel things to me throughout school. it just was'nt common for kids to let their parents or teachers know about it because they feared the retailiation that would come from it. there was also the "sticks and stones" mindset, so verbal bullying and harrassment got largly dismissed.

i think as this kind of stuff gets talked about more it might get people to realize what an impact this kind of behaviour has.

with our kids we've told them from a young age that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can scar forever"-and that they even need to watch what they say when they think they are doing good natured teasing (i had older sibs who thought their teasing was good natured, and did'nt intend anything bad with it-it realy hurt me and to some extent negativly impacted my self esteem).


i think with some people though, until they see the devastating effects first hand it never gets through to them what their words can do. i had an interesting thing happen at my 20th highschool reunion. a man came up to me with tears in his eyes and introduced himself. he had been absolutly awful to me when we were kids-said realy mean stuff. he offered the most heartfelt apology and explained that he never realized how much those words could hurt someone until his own daughter went through a similar experience at school and he saw it from the victim's perspective.

 

[rwdavis2]

I know how politically correct this will sound. But anyway, most schools will do nothing to stop bullying or cruel behavior and I'm not sure there's a lot they can do. My daughter received a lot of this in middle school and the school was less than helpful. They told us whe would have to learn to ignore it. If this had been 20-30 years ago I would have told here to beat the crap out of the next kid that picked on her and I'm sure it would have stopped. But the consequences are so much more severe these days I kept my mouth shut. The emotional scars tooks years to fall away and having thought about it she would have been better off beating one of these kids up to have it stopped.
BD

 

[Magic Mom]

It's not new. For some reason I was the brunt of the mean girls' attention in 5th grade and middle school. They used to call me a sl** and wh***, among other cruel things. I'm not sure why, I was so shy I couldn't even speak to boys. The first time they called me Sl** I didn't even know what it meant and had to look it up in the dictionary. It was awful. I went to a pretty nice middle class suburban school too.

 

[barkley]

I know how politically correct this will sound. But anyway, most schools will do nothing to stop bullying or cruel behavior and I'm not sure there's a lot they can do. My daughter received a lot of this in middle school and the school was less than helpful. They told us whe would have to learn to ignore it. If this had been 20-30 years ago I would have told here to beat the crap out of the next kid that picked on her and I'm sure it would have stopped. But the consequences are so much more severe these days I kept my mouth shut. The emotional scars tooks years to fall away and having thought about it she would have been better off beating one of these kids up to have it stopped.
BD

some schools are doing better at addressing it than others. dd's public highschool is REALY proactive on it, i did'nt realize how much so until we got caught up in an incident.

apparantly some boy at the highschool made some mean remarks to dd, she did'nt say anything to anyone but one of her friends overheard it and went to the principal. we got a call from the principal explaining that he had dd in his office earlier that day to investigate the matter and wanted to let us know that the boy had been "appropriatly disciplined". we figured the kid got talked to, maybe a call to the parents or detention-nope, 2 days in school suspension (much worse according to the highschool kids than at home suspension).

dd knew the words were hurtful and inappropriate, did not know it constitued bullying in her school's conduct code-her friend did.

 

[Buckalew11]

yeah, it is not new. I was never bullied although I was stalked and threatened by a girl who thought I was *going to* steal her BF. That was pretty awful. But what my DD suffered through with school bullies (girls) was horrible. Nothing was really done...private school, hard times, you do not want to lose tuitions you know...

 

[The Mystery Machine]

What has happenned in our society that elementary aged children can speak so cruely to each other. the days of the school yard bully being the kid that stole your lunch money, or knocked your books out of your hand are over. Now it's more about using words to emotionally toy with others. What is the point of that? How do you teach your child to respond? How can it be overcome?

If you are asking how your child can overcome bullies, cruelty, and the crap, you have to engage your kid in role playing, doing things that they are good at so they gain self confidence, and they need to get a group of friends that have their back.

In other words in order to overcome it, the burden lies on the parent to help their child, know what is going on in their life, and do what is necessary.

Taking karate, boxing, or some self defense classes can be a confidence booster, for example.

My youngest is in 8th and it is rough out there.

 

[janets]

If you are asking how your child can overcome bullies, cruelty, and the crap, you have to engage your kid in role playing, doing things that they are good at so they gain self confidence, and they need to get a group of friends that have their back.

In other words in order to overcome it, the burden lies on the parent to help their child, know what is going on in their life, and do what is necessary.

Taking karate, boxing, or some self defense classes can be a confidence booster, for example.

My youngest is in 8th and it is rough out there.

I hve a 7th grader who has been the one to be the target for years. He was always a bit heavier than the others (think husky) and while he was not as physically agile as them (and was never as good a baseball player) he was always so smart and verbal and seriously, talked rings around these kids. So they called him all sorts of names and it even got a bit physical in 2nd grade.

I have always been on top of the situation. I talk to him about it, we talk about what he can say and do in various situations. He took karate for years as well. It was useless. He simply never got a group of friends, no one was ever interested in "having his back." Even now, the kids who are kinda his friends, when the "bully" kids call him names, they laugh along. Most say they don't mean anything by it, but this is simply not what friends do.

He has recently grown about 2.5 inches and lost 19 lbs. He looks great. Yet this Wednesday he came home from religious school to tell me that yet again, this one kid and his sidekick were calling him all sorts of names, basically fatso and cow. And this was in the sanctuary in temple! He says things back, tells them to shut up, tries to ignore them. Doesn't work and doesn't stop.

So the whole strategy of talking and teaching them to work through it, talk to the bully, all that stuff, to me is a crock. I now just tell him to stay away from them, keep his head down and wait it out. However with this one kid, if it happens again, I see his mother a lot and I'm planning on saying something to her. We have known this kid since kindy and they go to our synagogue. This summer, DS was in a Jewish day camp with this boy. It was our first year there, the other kid had been there for many years. He has a group and of course, they excluded DS, called him names, that sort of stuff. Luckily, one incident was observed by the counselors, who called the kid on it and even contacted his parents. I think they were totally unaware of exactly what kind of kid they are raising and the problem seemed to be better controlled over the remainder of the summer.

Well, now they are back at school and religious school and are together again. And he's starting back up, never around adults so no one really knows him. I really think I might have to chat with her about this. I stay out of it, but I'm getting kind of sick of this kid's continued obnoxious mouth to my kid (and he has even made fun of my 8 yo...what 13 yo does that?).

 

[Jennasis]

NEW???

30 years ago I was tormented mercilessly by both boys and girls. It was always words...they never stole my lunch money or touched me or my things. It was ALWAYS verbal assaults.

The only thing "new" is that magically the country is more intolerant of it...and that's a good thing.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I hve a 7th grader who has been the one to be the target for years. He was always a bit heavier than the others (think husky) and while he was not as physically agile as them (and was never as good a baseball player) he was always so smart and verbal and seriously, talked rings around these kids. So they called him all sorts of names and it even got a bit physical in 2nd grade.

I have always been on top of the situation. I talk to him about it, we talk about what he can say and do in various situations. He took karate for years as well. It was useless. He simply never got a group of friends, no one was ever interested in "having his back." Even now, the kids who are kinda his friends, when the "bully" kids call him names, they laugh along. Most say they don't mean anything by it, but this is simply not what friends do.

He has recently grown about 2.5 inches and lost 19 lbs. He looks great. Yet this Wednesday he came home from religious school to tell me that yet again, this one kid and his sidekick were calling him all sorts of names, basically fatso and cow. And this was in the sanctuary in temple! He says things back, tells them to shut up, tries to ignore them. Doesn't work and doesn't stop.

So the whole strategy of talking and teaching them to work through it, talk to the bully, all that stuff, to me is a crock. I now just tell him to stay away from them, keep his head down and wait it out. However with this one kid, if it happens again, I see his mother a lot and I'm planning on saying something to her. We have known this kid since kindy and they go to our synagogue. This summer, DS was in a Jewish day camp with this boy. It was our first year there, the other kid had been there for many years. He has a group and of course, they excluded DS, called him names, that sort of stuff. Luckily, one incident was observed by the counselors, who called the kid on it and even contacted his parents. I think they were totally unaware of exactly what kind of kid they are raising and the problem seemed to be better controlled over the remainder of the summer.

Well, now they are back at school and religious school and are together again. And he's starting back up, never around adults so no one really knows him. I really think I might have to chat with her about this. I stay out of it, but I'm getting kind of sick of this kid's continued obnoxious mouth to my kid (and he has even made fun of my 8 yo...what 13 yo does that?).

Wow that is tough.

I have girls so I have always taught them to be tough. If they are getting bullied they fight back with words and they are good at it.

The weight issue is a big problem because weight will mess with a kids self confidence.

Have you given him permission to fight back with words?

 

[luvsJack]

No its definitly nothing new. Sometimes I do think that kids forget that that kid they are being mean to is a real person and really does have feelings too.

Our school is doing sooooo much better at dealing with bullies. Even put out a girl this year because her mom refused to discuss her bullying through facebook.

When my sons were in school it was more the "just ignore it" type of reaction to it. We told either one of them to tell every teacher, principal or other adult in the school they could find. Once every adult knew and nothing was done. WE told the adults. If nothing was done, it was up to them. And they defended themselves. Did they have to face the consequences? Of course, but it ended.

Dd has been lucky, once the facebook girl was out, she hasn't had anyone to say anything mean to her. But she is quick to tell someone off. It has helped, I think in their school because some of these kids have known each other since preschool (there are a couple she has known since being in the infant room in child care). When someone says something mean to another, someone usually speaks up in defense.


You speak of hardened hearts, I do think that is true to an extent. Although these mean words have gone on for years,too many kids lack respect of thier teachers and other school officials and they lack respect for the feelings of other people.

 

[janets]

Absolutely. And he's getting better at it too. But these kids just think it's funny, like he's just a joke. So it doesn't do any good for him to respond verbally to them. And it's interesting because this kid is so much smaller than my son, and he's a crybaby. This has been going on for years...something will upset him, he'll get in trouble, and he's crying. Why would these 7th grade boys continue to be friends with a kid who cries in public, but continue to ridicule my kid?

 

[Jennasis]

Absolutely. And he's getting better at it too. But these kids just think it's funny, like he's just a joke. So it doesn't do any good for him to respond verbally to them. And it's interesting because this kid is so much smaller than my son, and he's a crybaby. This has been going on for years...something will upset him, he'll get in trouble, and he's crying. Why would these 7th grade boys continue to be friends with a kid who cries in public, but continue to ridicule my kid?

When I was in HS, I was being taunted by some guys. They liked to call me fat (though I wasn't anywhere near fat, but I was a big girl...like an Amazon).

So finally I'd had enough and told them "You're right...I am fat. But you're an ignorant jack***, and I can lose weight. you're stuck being an ignorant jack*** for the rest of your life".

They left me alone after that.

 

[janets]

When I was in HS, I was being taunted by some guys. They liked to call me fat (though I wasn't anywhere near fat, but I was a big girl...like an Amazon).

So finally I'd had enough and told them "You're right...I am fat. But you're an ignorant jack***, and I can lose weight. you're stuck being an ignorant jack*** for the rest of your life".

They left me alone after that.

He's said to him "well, I'd rather be fat than a crybaby like you." And they just laugh at him and continue to do it. It's like his responses are just showing them that they are getting the reaction that they want. He ignores them, it continues. He responds, it continues. We've talked about this kid alot and he's just really a PITA. That's why I'm getting close to telling his mother just what he's doing when she's not looking.

 

[luvsJack]

Absolutely. And he's getting better at it too. But these kids just think it's funny, like he's just a joke. So it doesn't do any good for him to respond verbally to them. And it's interesting because this kid is so much smaller than my son, and he's a crybaby. This has been going on for years...something will upset him, he'll get in trouble, and he's crying. Why would these 7th grade boys continue to be friends with a kid who cries in public, but continue to ridicule my kid?

Sometimes its hard to figure out why kids choose to be friends with one kid over another. Maybe they are just afraid of becoming the butt of jokes if they aren't his friend.

Have you gone to the school? I would be demanding they do something to put a stop to it.

Is there a way to put him in activities outside of school that would help him to make friends? Having other friends may help his self-esteen enough that he can find the right thing to say or do to this other kid or at least not let it bother him so much.

When younger ds was bullied, my dad went to the other kid's dad. It stopped NOTHING. So, don't assume that will help. They just assumed that thier kid could do no wrong. And the mom of the bully they put out of dd's school would not even talk to anyone about it.

I know what I would tell my own child to do, but I knew they could/can handle themselves. Sometimes the consequences are worth the results. I can't tell you to tell your child that, though. Just don't ignore it or expect him to, because he can't. Keep looking for a solution for him.

 

[MichelleVW]

What has happenned in our society that elementary aged children can speak so cruely to each other. the days of the school yard bully being the kid that stole your lunch money, or knocked your books out of your hand are over. Now it's more about using words to emotionally toy with others. What is the point of that? How do you teach your child to respond? How can it be overcome?

Words have always been used. This is not new at all.

 

[barkley]

He's said to him "well, I'd rather be fat than a crybaby like you." And they just laugh at him and continue to do it. It's like his responses are just showing them that they are getting the reaction that they want. He ignores them, it continues. He responds, it continues. We've talked about this kid alot and he's just really a PITA. That's why I'm getting close to telling his mother just what he's doing when she's not looking.

one thing to consider-you can get very small digital recorders for less than $30. a neighbor wanted to catch another neighbor saying something-he had it INSIDE a jacket pocket and the reception was clear as a bell.

if your son records something inappropriate you can take it to school/religious school officials and start a conversation about what the school's conduct code is. listen to them and ask in a low key manner how they would respond if they knew a student was saying certain things (use actual examples you have taped) to another student. wait for their response, then turn on the recorder for them to listen to and tell them "now you know, i expect you to immediatly act on this".

i find that when given unrefutable evidence it can go a long way in these situations (oh, and if you do it tell your son not to confide in anyone he has the tape recorder, and if possible, when the kid says something rude and he's taping-to make sure to say the kid's name on tape, because unless the kid says 'thats not my name', it helps prove it's the kid (so rotton kid can't say 'that's not me' when confronted by admin).

 

[cm8]

What has happenned in our society that elementary aged children can speak so cruely to each other. the days of the school yard bully being the kid that stole your lunch money, or knocked your books out of your hand are over. Now it's more about using words to emotionally toy with others. What is the point of that? How do you teach your child to respond? How can it be overcome?

Those kids are usually a product of a "broken" home. They receive no attention, love, and maybe come from a home filled with abuse. They lack self respect and humility. They have no examples on what it means to be a nice person and build themselves up with adrenaline and bullying gets them the "love" that they are missing inside.

You can try to teach your child to forgive them for the words they use to pass judgment on them. It is not always easy but they have to be able to remove themselves from that environment and should be equipped to defend themselves from physical harm.

I am not sure that it can be "overcame" from the child's view point. Sometimes words do hurt and much worst than sticks and stones. However, if you build them (your child) up with love, self esteem and courage, they will eventually grow stronger and the words will bounce off like an insect repellent

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

i don't think it's anything new.

i'm 49 and was a bully magnet growing up. i remember kids saying horrendously cruel things to me throughout school. it just was'nt common for kids to let their parents or teachers know about it because they feared the retailiation that would come from it. there was also the "sticks and stones" mindset, so verbal bullying and harrassment got largly dismissed.

i think as this kind of stuff gets talked about more it might get people to realize what an impact this kind of behaviour has.

with our kids we've told them from a young age that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can scar forever"-and that they even need to watch what they say when they think they are doing good natured teasing (i had older sibs who thought their teasing was good natured, and did'nt intend anything bad with it-it realy hurt me and to some extent negativly impacted my self esteem).


i think with some people though, until they see the devastating effects first hand it never gets through to them what their words can do. i had an interesting thing happen at my 20th highschool reunion. a man came up to me with tears in his eyes and introduced himself. he had been absolutly awful to me when we were kids-said realy mean stuff. he offered the most heartfelt apology and explained that he never realized how much those words could hurt someone until his own daughter went through a similar experience at school and he saw it from the victim's perspective.

NEW???

30 years ago I was tormented mercilessly by both boys and girls. It was always words...they never stole my lunch money or touched me or my things. It was ALWAYS verbal assaults.

The only thing "new" is that magically the country is more intolerant of it...and that's a good thing.

What they said.

The difference is that FINALLY people are starting to take this stuff seriously.

Edited to add: I wish I hadn't kept so much of it from my family. My parents are wonderful, amazing people and I know now (how many years later?!) that I should have been more open about a lot of it. But at the time, I didn't want my family to know what an ugly loser their daughter was.

 

[acejka]

It's not new. I feel kids are a little more soft these days.

I got bullied in elementary school, about my weight in 3rd grade and straight up to about 9th when I started to thin out. I've never been the really fat person, just chunkier than everyone else. I told my grandma, and I was told to suck it up buttercup cause sticks and stones can hurts your bones.... and we all know the rest. I surely wasn't running around saying these words were going to make me do bad thingds to myself. I was stronger than that, and still am. I went through 5 years of torture from 2004-2009 in a law office of all places, nobody stuck up for me when I reported it, I chose to ignore these people and not let them run my life.

I honetly think there are much more bigger, much deeper problems in the kids threatening or commiting suicide/hurting themselves. flame away, but that is my opinion and its not changing at this point. I know it sucks to be called names or told not to eat or that i was pretty when i was thin and when is the baby due and stuff for 10 hours a day, I went through it as an adult and as a kid but it didn't for a second make me think to do those extreme things.