Ha! This "snowflake" behaviour is hard to beat!

Dad should go to the car and if it should absentmindedly drive home, so much the better.

You forgot to add one phrase: Dad should go to the car WITH THE CHILD.Even if she has special needs, that isn't a good reason to give in to bratty behavior. Even autistic and mentally ******** kids can learn to behave or be removed from the premisis.

Poor dad. Can you imagine what life is like at home?:scared1:
 
Could she have had some special needs, DD5 is special needs and among the things that she has is OCD and we have had issues with things with numbers. Not excusing if there are no issues but when your child is special needs sometime you just have to do things that seem crazy to prevent a complete meltdown and by the way my DD5's name is Sarah

Sorry, I would NOT be indulging a 5 yr old with OCD. I also think it would make it worse, and at a younger age. She could have a melt down in the car, instead, or at home. And if her therapist recommended to indulge her, I'd be finding a new therapist. I don't believe in learned helplessness or enabling.
 
Could she have had some special needs, DD5 is special needs and among the things that she has is OCD and we have had issues with things with numbers. Not excusing if there are no issues but when your child is special needs sometime you just have to do things that seem crazy to prevent a complete meltdown and by the way my DD5's name is Sarah

kymmyk, I think I understand. When you have a special needs kid, you choose your battles. This morning at VBS, a fellow parent of an autistic child stated that if her son didn't want to brush his teeth that morning, she chose to overlook it. She chose to focus on safety issues, and behavioral issues toward other children.

Now some kids are just being bratty no doubt. But I tend to cut a lot of slack, as we're going through this firsthand.
 

Could she have had some special needs, DD5 is special needs and among the things that she has is OCD and we have had issues with things with numbers. Not excusing if there are no issues but when your child is special needs sometime you just have to do things that seem crazy to prevent a complete meltdown and by the way my DD5's name is Sarah

This is what I was wondering too. If she is special needs, I can see doing it to get out without a meltdown but if she isn't - then oh my goodness.

Of course no kid should be indulged like this, special needs included and the way it's described sounds like mom indulging but we don't know what has already happened in the day and sometimes we have to pick our battles.
 
Someone is gonna have to explain this picking battles stuff. I'm almost 40 and I do not remember my parents or those of my friends ever "picking a battle". You either did what you were told or your did nothing and probably got spanked. Did I grow up in a bubble? After work today I was talking with the fellas, one African American, a Latino and myself Asian. We were talking about this exact thing. None of our parents, all from different backgrounds, areas of the country and nationalities ever seemed to "pick their battles". And all three of us turned out pretty darn good.

I just don't understand.
 
I understand special needs, but won't giving into all the quirks of OCD just make the rituals even worse? Shouldn't the parent instead work to confront these rituals in many small ways daily, regardless of meltdown, in order to help the child overcome the obsessions and eventually learn to compromise within normal social settings?.

It's not that simple. First of all OCD isn't about a child not knowing how to compromise, the OCD kids I know can often compromise fine, as long as the issue isn't a compulsion or an obsession. I'm going to tell you a story to give you a sense of why sometimes a mother might make the choice to let something like this happen.

I had a little boy with OCD in my class one year. Some of his compulsions were dangerous. For example, if an object, or a part of a person, hit into something he had a compulsive need to touch that place to make sure it was "OK". Sounds OK -- well if a ball from the playground bumped a parked car on the other side of the street he'd run to touch the car, unaware of the other cars moving in the street. If another child was kicking the underside of his desk, he's crawl under to put his hand between the child's foot and the desk to try and touch it between kicks, he was fast because he "needed" to touch the spot before the foot got there again, and if the other kid didn't notice (or didn't care) and he got kicked -- that was not a deterrent.

He also had a compulsion about licking things, specifically things that other people had touched, like light switches, and door knobs and toilet seats -- I don't think I need to go into details about that.

He also had an obsessive need to have a pencil with a "good eraser", because it somehow magically warded off mistakes before they happened.

Did he have these obsessions because people "gave in" or "indulged" them? No, he had them because he had them - I'm sure there's some deep seated psychological theory, but all I know is that neither we, nor his parents, ever let him run across the street, nor did we let him lick the toilet seat -- not once, and yet he continued to try.

For him, at least, and I can't speak to other kids with the same disability but I wouldn't be surprised if this was true, he had a sliver of ability to control the compulsions and obsessions. For example, he helped us make a vibrant red "stop sign" to hang on the toilet, and if he saw it and if he could sometimes remember to lick a shiny bracelet he wore instead, and if he knew he wasn't going to have that much self control, he could usually remember to ask someone to come with him and physically stop him. We had another child in the classroom, who would sometimes throw tantrums and kick the trash can as hard as he could (big improvement, when he arrived he'd kick staff members), and sometimes, the little boy could be satisfied to touch the other side of the trash can, whereas other times it was all he could do to tell us that he was going over there to touch the trash can (that is to put his little hand between the trash can and the foot of another child who was kicking it as hard as he could) and we'd have to chase him down.

But doing these things, controlling the compulsions was exhausting, and just like a child with a physical disability might be able to walk around WDW in the morning, and yet 100% need a wheelchair in the afternoon, he could easily run out of steam. It was a constant balancing act, because like exercise, some practice controlling the compulsions was good because it built stamina, but too much lead to fatigue and actually made it harder to do the same thing tomorrow. We had a chair in our classroom (this was a special ed class if you haven't figured that out yet), with a seat belt for a child with a physical disability. The little boy could do up the seat belt, but couldn't undo it (it wasn't designed that way, not intended as a restraint, just intended to hold a child's hips back so they didn't slide around, but the clip was tight and his fingers were small). Sometimes, near the end of the day he'd be so exhausted from trying to stop himself that he'd climb in and buckle himself in the chair because he just couldn't face the work of trying any longer, and he also couldn't stand to know he was disappointing us when he failed.

Anyway, like I said, this little boy had an obsession with pencil erasers. In my classroom I had a rule -- when it comes to pencils you "get what you get and you don't get upset". You don't spend writer's workshop whining about how your pencil's too short or the eraser's almost gone -- you spend it writing. I've had that rule for years, and I made every single kid in my class follow it. . . except him. He got a pencil with a beautiful newish eraser every day. Because I knew that if I didn't he'd get over it, but that priceless bit of energy or will power he needed to get over the eraser would then be used up, and chances were that later in the day there's be a ball that went into the street, or a trash can to touch on the side, or a toilet to not lick, and he'd need that precious bit of energy, because maybe today would be the one day I wasn't fast enough.

In addition, I knew he was working hard -- all day long he was working to stay in control, in fact he was probably working 10 times as hard as I was, and he was only a very little boy. So by giving him the pencil with the nice eraser I was able to say -- "I know you're carrying a big burden, and you do it so bravely, let me take this tiny piece from you".

Was that going on with Sarah? I don't know. Probably not. Maybe she was a spoiled snowflake. Maybe that wasn't her mother and her mother died the week before (grieving kids are notoriously controlling), or maybe she was recently diagnosed with some condition that impacted her food choices (like celiac) and mom had said no a thousand times during that trip to the store and decided that, just this once, she was going to say yes. Or maybe she was a spoiled snowflake.

Unless Sarah's parents come here and tell us, we'll never know.
 
That poor little dude...thank you for sharing that, mnf.



Barring something like that...I recently met a woman with a 9 year old boy (though he looks much younger and emotionally acts much younger, while being much smarter than your typical 9 year old). She treats him like a "snowflake". But...she has reasons. Not sure if they are good reasons; I've seen him act MUCH better when she's not there (we know each other from the YMCA, and we got into a "you watch my kid while I work out then we'll switch" routine) so I know he CAN be different. But of course she doesn't see that (and doesn't believe it, unfortunately). She feels that she has reasons for rescuing her 9 year old from situations that don't require rescuing, for allowing him to be completely hypocritical (a typical-sized 10 year old threw foam blocks towards him during a game when *everyone* was throwing foam blocks, and that was BAD, but then he throws hard handballs directly AT my 6 year old and that's just a fun game...for the most recent example), for giving in to most of his whims.

But barring something like that...just this afternoon we went to the store after DH's dental appointment, chose an express lane...DS expressed his desire to be in lane 9 (ugh, because the boy I mentioned above is 9, sigh) instead of line 7 where we were. And we said "nope". Then he said "can I have a toy car?" And we said "nope". And then we paid for our items and went home. Was pretty simple.


Then again, before we tweaked DS's diet at 3, we had to deal with some mega-tantrums, and those are embarrassing. I can imagine it would be even MORE embarrassing with an older kid, so I can imagine the urge to just give in would be higher.
 
Did lane four have a refrigerator case? Maybe she wanted that lane because she wanted to work over a parent for a soda or something.
 
Maybe she just liked the number 4. I had a kid in my class once who just liked the number 4. He'd go through his math worksheets and find all the problems where the answer was 4, and circle them so he could "save the best for last". Then he'd skip them and do them at the end.

The part that I liked the best was that he'd then take out the math manipulatives and carefully count them out to do the math to figure out the answer (this was Kindergarten). I'd sit there, wondering why he needed to do that since obviously knew the answer was 4, but I think he liked to savor them.

Sometimes I'd make sure there were 4 problems with the answer 4 just because it was a simple way to make him sooooo happy. He'd just laugh and laugh at the sheer wonder of.

OK, that was completely tangential. Please excuse the interruption.
 
kymmyk, I think I understand. When you have a special needs kid, you choose your battles. This morning at VBS, a fellow parent of an autistic child stated that if her son didn't want to brush his teeth that morning, she chose to overlook it. She chose to focus on safety issues, and behavioral issues toward other children.

Now some kids are just being bratty no doubt. But I tend to cut a lot of slack, as we're going through this firsthand.

I have a 7 yo dd with autism and a 12 yo ds with special needs, so I know about choosing my battles. My 7 yo would totally "need" (in her mind) to do a certain thing like go to a certain lane number, so I would choose to wait the few extra minutes. So would my dh. We would be thankful that this was our biggest "battle" for the moment. I am so beyond what other people think.
 
It's not that simple. First of all OCD isn't about a child not knowing how to compromise, the OCD kids I know can often compromise fine, as long as the issue isn't a compulsion or an obsession. I'm going to tell you a story to give you a sense of why sometimes a mother might make the choice to let something like this happen.

I had a little boy with OCD in my class one year. Some of his compulsions were dangerous. For example, if an object, or a part of a person, hit into something he had a compulsive need to touch that place to make sure it was "OK". Sounds OK -- well if a ball from the playground bumped a parked car on the other side of the street he'd run to touch the car, unaware of the other cars moving in the street. If another child was kicking the underside of his desk, he's crawl under to put his hand between the child's foot and the desk to try and touch it between kicks, he was fast because he "needed" to touch the spot before the foot got there again, and if the other kid didn't notice (or didn't care) and he got kicked -- that was not a deterrent.

He also had a compulsion about licking things, specifically things that other people had touched, like light switches, and door knobs and toilet seats -- I don't think I need to go into details about that.

He also had an obsessive need to have a pencil with a "good eraser", because it somehow magically warded off mistakes before they happened.

Did he have these obsessions because people "gave in" or "indulged" them? No, he had them because he had them - I'm sure there's some deep seated psychological theory, but all I know is that neither we, nor his parents, ever let him run across the street, nor did we let him lick the toilet seat -- not once, and yet he continued to try.

For him, at least, and I can't speak to other kids with the same disability but I wouldn't be surprised if this was true, he had a sliver of ability to control the compulsions and obsessions. For example, he helped us make a vibrant red "stop sign" to hang on the toilet, and if he saw it and if he could sometimes remember to lick a shiny bracelet he wore instead, and if he knew he wasn't going to have that much self control, he could usually remember to ask someone to come with him and physically stop him. We had another child in the classroom, who would sometimes throw tantrums and kick the trash can as hard as he could (big improvement, when he arrived he'd kick staff members), and sometimes, the little boy could be satisfied to touch the other side of the trash can, whereas other times it was all he could do to tell us that he was going over there to touch the trash can (that is to put his little hand between the trash can and the foot of another child who was kicking it as hard as he could) and we'd have to chase him down.

But doing these things, controlling the compulsions was exhausting, and just like a child with a physical disability might be able to walk around WDW in the morning, and yet 100% need a wheelchair in the afternoon, he could easily run out of steam. It was a constant balancing act, because like exercise, some practice controlling the compulsions was good because it built stamina, but too much lead to fatigue and actually made it harder to do the same thing tomorrow. We had a chair in our classroom (this was a special ed class if you haven't figured that out yet), with a seat belt for a child with a physical disability. The little boy could do up the seat belt, but couldn't undo it (it wasn't designed that way, not intended as a restraint, just intended to hold a child's hips back so they didn't slide around, but the clip was tight and his fingers were small). Sometimes, near the end of the day he'd be so exhausted from trying to stop himself that he'd climb in and buckle himself in the chair because he just couldn't face the work of trying any longer, and he also couldn't stand to know he was disappointing us when he failed.

Anyway, like I said, this little boy had an obsession with pencil erasers. In my classroom I had a rule -- when it comes to pencils you "get what you get and you don't get upset". You don't spend writer's workshop whining about how your pencil's too short or the eraser's almost gone -- you spend it writing. I've had that rule for years, and I made every single kid in my class follow it. . . except him. He got a pencil with a beautiful newish eraser every day. Because I knew that if I didn't he'd get over it, but that priceless bit of energy or will power he needed to get over the eraser would then be used up, and chances were that later in the day there's be a ball that went into the street, or a trash can to touch on the side, or a toilet to not lick, and he'd need that precious bit of energy, because maybe today would be the one day I wasn't fast enough.

In addition, I knew he was working hard -- all day long he was working to stay in control, in fact he was probably working 10 times as hard as I was, and he was only a very little boy. So by giving him the pencil with the nice eraser I was able to say -- "I know you're carrying a big burden, and you do it so bravely, let me take this tiny piece from you".

Was that going on with Sarah? I don't know. Probably not. Maybe she was a spoiled snowflake. Maybe that wasn't her mother and her mother died the week before (grieving kids are notoriously controlling), or maybe she was recently diagnosed with some condition that impacted her food choices (like celiac) and mom had said no a thousand times during that trip to the store and decided that, just this once, she was going to say yes. Or maybe she was a spoiled snowflake.

Unless Sarah's parents come here and tell us, we'll never know.


I teared up reading about "your" little boy. You are one amazing person! That little guy was blessed to have had you in his life!!
 
My sister and I witnessed a good "snowflake" story over the weekend. We ate at a character breakfast at Disneyland on Sunday. Next to us was a family with a little girl about 7 and a little boy about 4. At the end of their meal a few waitresses brought the little girl some fruit with a candle in it and quietly sang her happy birthday. She blew it out and the little boy went ballistic! We assumed the parents might make this a learning experience for the little boy (it's not always about you, it's nice to celebrate other people, etc), but no! While the dad rightfully took the little boy away, and while they were gone the mom asked the waitress to bring a lighter so she could relight the candle! The little girl was so mad and the mom kept saying you'll get to eat all the fruit. So here it was her birthday and she had to wait for her brother to get back to eat her birthday fruit.

So my sister and I assumed the dad would not approve of the mom's behavior, but no when he came back they all sang happy birthday to the little boy and they the little boy ate the sister's fruit! The little girl seemed so sad and exasperated.

I suppose it's possible the little boy was on the autism spectrum or had some other sort of disorder, but to me his tantrum didn't seem any different than seeking attention or jealousy. Even if he was autistic it wasn't fair to the little girl on her birthday. They could have easily deflected the situation another way.
 
Someone is gonna have to explain this picking battles stuff. I'm almost 40 and I do not remember my parents or those of my friends ever "picking a battle". You either did what you were told or your did nothing and probably got spanked. Did I grow up in a bubble? After work today I was talking with the fellas, one African American, a Latino and myself Asian. We were talking about this exact thing. None of our parents, all from different backgrounds, areas of the country and nationalities ever seemed to "pick their battles". And all three of us turned out pretty darn good.

I just don't understand.

This made me laugh! I know what you mean. I don't remember having any choices as a kid. As a parent to 3 kids(15, 11, 9) I mean I pick my battles over trivial things. I won't compromise on safety or moral issues but if one of my dd's wanted to wear pink pants and an orange shirt to preschool, I wouldn't turn it into a war. I don't automatically say 'no' just because I can to things either. Now my kids ar getting older so the issues will be changing. Blue streaks in your hair? Why not? A tattoo? Nope.
 
Someone is gonna have to explain this picking battles stuff. I'm almost 40 and I do not remember my parents or those of my friends ever "picking a battle". You either did what you were told or your did nothing and probably got spanked. Did I grow up in a bubble? After work today I was talking with the fellas, one African American, a Latino and myself Asian. We were talking about this exact thing. None of our parents, all from different backgrounds, areas of the country and nationalities ever seemed to "pick their battles". And all three of us turned out pretty darn good.

I just don't understand.

Ok, pick your battles if they want to have a goofy hair style but NEVER on behavior issues. I am with you on that. The kids WILL behave or they WILL be in trouble. Since we started enforcing this at a VERY young age, our kids don't have behavior issues.

So what if she had a disability, you can ALWAYS take a child out of the store, especially since there were two parents along. Sorry, that girl is REALLY going to have issues in the real world.
 
I have a 7 yo dd with autism and a 12 yo ds with special needs, so I know about choosing my battles. My 7 yo would totally "need" (in her mind) to do a certain thing like go to a certain lane number, so I would choose to wait the few extra minutes. So would my dh. We would be thankful that this was our biggest "battle" for the moment. I am so beyond what other people think.

But would you override your DH after he said no?
 
These 2 parents are enablers and it's not going to be cute down the road when snowflake is older. And the dad needs to grow a pair and put his foot down to all nonsense.
Took the words right out of my mouth

This made me laugh! I know what you mean. I don't remember having any choices as a kid. As a parent to 3 kids(15, 11, 9) I mean I pick my battles over trivial things. I won't compromise on safety or moral issues but if one of my dd's wanted to wear pink pants and an orange shirt to preschool, I wouldn't turn it into a war. I don't automatically say 'no' just because I can to things either. Now my kids ar getting older so the issues will be changing. Blue streaks in your hair? Why not? A tattoo? Nope.
:worship: I agree, I have a very strong willed child, he is 20 and still afraid of me, as he should be :lmao: he had blue hair in middle school but would not dare to throw a tantrum.

Ok, pick your battles if they want to have a goofy hair style but NEVER on behavior issues. I am with you on that. The kids WILL behave or they WILL be in trouble. Since we started enforcing this at a VERY young age, our kids don't have behavior issues.

So what if she had a disability, you can ALWAYS take a child out of the store, especially since there were two parents along. Sorry, that girl is REALLY going to have issues in the real world.
I agree - behave or be removed. I think too many parents make too many excuses for their snowflakes, they have no backbone and the child is clearly in charge. That is so wrong, the child should never, despite any disability be in charge of the parent.
 

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