Guy with no kids spends a night in Cinderella's Suite

[Keyser]

The guy or gal standing in the middle of the bridge blocking my view of the Tree of Life is not there to wish me a "magical" day.

They are there to take my picture.

You're right - they're there to take your picture. The horror ! And, if you like the picture they take, they might even charge you money to buy it !

What exactly would you propose? Should there be no photographers at all? People like getting their picture taken in Disney parks, and always have. People also like having other people around to take their picture so that they don't have to carry their own camera with them to get these pictures - it's a service. Maybe Disney should have people who will stand around just to take a picture with the guest's camera? Oh wait, the photopass people already will... Maybe the photopass people shouldn't force guests into getting their picture taken in the first place? Oh wait, they don't. Maybe they shouldn't try to hard sell the pictures once they've taken them? Oh wait, they don't do that either. Maybe they should just make it as convenient as possible to buy these pictures if you want to, and make it just as easy not to if you don't? That sounds like what they're doing. Or, maybe the prices for the final pictures should be cheaper, so that the photopass program is revenue-neutral - charging guests only what the actual cost of the service comes to, with no additional profit? Well, maybe there's something to that argument, but it's not the one you're making - you're saying the whole photopass system is a problem.

You don't have to use the photopass people. You don't have to buy anything. Shoot - this is about the softest sell I've ever seen. You're more than welcome to avoid them entirely. I've never had a photopass person push me into getting a picture taken, much less trying to buy one. The most they've ever done was to ask if we'd like our picture taken. They've always been happy to take a picture with our own camera. In 1999, though, the photographers at the entrance were pushier. And, you had to buy your pictures by going to a special place in the park. What do you know, there's something in the past decade that Disney actually managed to improve so that it's a better experience for the guest.

Should no food be sold on Disney property? Do you want to get rid of all the restaurants as well? Is selling food just the cheap and easy way out? Or is there something more fundamental - like maybe guests would like to be able to buy food in the park, and Disney is going to provide it to them? Maybe you can say Disney "overdoes" the food, or charges too high prices, or occupies valuable theme park space with restaurants. But, surely you wouldn't try to say that food in the park is only there because of the greed/bad business decisions of the Disney executives.

And, this is not an issue of tradeoff. You say they have to take your picture because it's easier than building rides. These are not exclusive things. Photopass is not costing the company money, so it's not like they're doing it instead of investing money in an attraction. It's not like they're saying "we could do photopass, or we could build an attaction", or diverting creative resources to photopass when they could be devoting them to attraction development.

So again, what you propose they do to photopass that would improve the guest experience?

 

[raidermatt]

it's a service...Or, maybe the prices for the final pictures should be cheaper, so that the photopass program is revenue-neutral - charging guests only what the actual cost of the service comes to, with no additional profit? Well, maybe there's something to that argument, but it's not the one you're making - you're saying the whole photopass system is a problem.

...

Should no food be sold on Disney property?... But, surely you wouldn't try to say that food in the park is only there because of the greed/bad business decisions of the Disney executives.

And, this is not an issue of tradeoff. You say they have to take your picture because it's easier than building rides. These are not exclusive things. Photopass is not costing the company money, so it's not like they're doing it instead of investing money in an attraction. It's not like they're saying "we could do photopass, or we could build an attaction", or diverting creative resources to photopass when they could be devoting them to attraction development.

Ok, I'm not as set against Photopass as Mr. AV, but make no mistake, it is a PRODUCT, not a service. That's not necessarily bad, of course Disney has to have products, but let's just be honest about it.

There is something cheap about a guy/gal standing in the middle of the street wanting to sell you a picture, no matter how polite and unobtrusive they try to be. And one of AV's points was that he is in fact blocking the view of the castle at times.

They will take pictures with your camera(s), but my experience is you have to ask for this in most cases. Since most people assume they won't do it, it's coming off like any other photo taking guy anywhere else as opposed to any kind of "service". They really want to do this right? OFFER in all cases to take pictures with the guests camera as well.

You mention prices, and they are absolutely outrageous. Sure, they now offer the convenience of the CD or using the internet, but despite the fact that these services also cost less for Disney, they don't charge any less than you pay in the park. Certainly the prices could more reasonable without having to make the whole product revenue-neutral.

So yeah, they do it better than its done in most places, but its still got a lot of room for improvement.

But you also say its not a tradeoff. Logically, that makes sense. As you say, this generates money, so its not taking away from building attractions. But what that leaves out is that all the company cares about these days is that the parks meet their numbers. Everything is viewed in that context. So if they can make enough money off of Photopass and lame marketing schemes, it does take the place of building more and better attractions. Put simply, they choose to grow their business through things like this INSTEAD of through more investment in the substance of the parks. Its cheaper and less risky.

Food? Nobody suggested they shouldn't sell food. He just said it was bad and overpriced.

 

[YoHo]

Frankly, I'd rather have the CM's shouting about the food, because that's what they should be doing. If you were to walk down a classic mainstreet with food vendors, they'd be shouting out advertising their wears.

Also, Disney used to not offer to sell you a picture. There used to be no camera men in front of the castle.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The photogs certainly DO block your entrance and view of the 'Tree Of Life'...Every single time.

 

[tinkspark]

They will take pictures with your camera(s), but my experience is you have to ask for this in most cases. Since most people assume they won't do it, it's coming off like any other photo taking guy anywhere else as opposed to any kind of "service". They really want to do this right? OFFER in all cases to take pictures with the guests camera as well.

You mention prices, and they are absolutely outrageous. Sure, they now offer the convenience of the CD or using the internet, but despite the fact that these services also cost less for Disney, they don't charge any less than you pay in the park. Certainly the prices could more reasonable without having to make the whole product revenue-neutral.

Hmm that is quite the opposite experience i've ever had. Nine times out of ten if a photographer sees someone taking a picture of their family they will offer to take that picture for them on their camera. And of course they can't do that if they are helping a family who does want a photopass picture.

The CD is actually quite reasonable. If you bought the rights to any pictures taken by a professional photographer... you better believe it will cost you more then 125 dollars. 125 dollars isn't bad when you can get up to 1000 pictures for it... if you had 400 pictures taken by a professional photographer it will cost you anywhere upwards from 750 dollars.

Also, Disney used to not offer to sell you a picture. There used to be no camera men in front of the castle.

Thats not true... Walt Disney himself started the orignial contract with Kodak. Kodak did not want to do it because they don't take the pictures just provide the means for developing.

The photogs certainly DO block your entrance and view of the 'Tree Of Life'...Every single time.

Hmm well I seem to notice hundreds of people with cameras around their neck in my way all the time and they aren't cast members. So maybe tourists just shouldn't be allowed to carry cameras either. At least cm's will move out of the way if you politely ask unlike other guests.

 

[Another Voice]

So again, what you propose they do to photopass that would improve the guest experience?

Well, they could them, all the excess vending carts and all the rest of the revenue enhancement clutter and dump them in the trash.

Photopass is not a service. It's Disney effort to sell you something else once you're already in the park. It's a for profit enterprise because taken my $70 for an admission ticket, my $8.00 for a hamburger and my $350 a night Motel 6 room doesn't quite fill the corporate trough of greed anymore.

Call it "magical" if you want, but normal people understand what's going on.

You might feel sorry for me, but if you think this is "Disney magic" than it's you who should receive the pity.

If you bought the rights to any pictures taken by a professional photographer... you better believe it will cost you more then 125 dollars.

There's nothing professional about a minimum wage cast member standing in front of Spaceship Earth waving a bad preset camera. To call Photopass "professional" is an insult to real professional photograhpers. And to demand that we pay the same price??

125 dollars isn't bad when you can get up to 1000 pictures for it...

Who gets a 1000 pictures taken of them? Britney Spears? Does Photopass come with the head shaving as well?

 

[pfishgirl]

So I guess I'll get flamed here.. but.. I thought this article was Kinda sweet.. He didn't HAVE to invite anyone, but he did, a family with 2 little Princesses..


I would of done the same.. I probably would of picked a family with girls that were just a bit older so they could Really experience and Remember it though...

 

[tinkspark]

Well, they could them, all the excess vending carts and all the rest of the revenue enhancement clutter and dump them in the trash.

Photopass is not a service. It's Disney effort to sell you something else once you're already in the park. It's a for profit enterprise because taken my $70 for an admission ticket, my $8.00 for a hamburger and my $350 a night Motel 6 room doesn't quite fill the corporate trough of greed anymore.

Call it "magical" if you want, but normal people understand what's going on.

You might feel sorry for me, but if you think this is "Disney magic" than it's you who should receive the pity.


There's nothing professional about a minimum wage cast member standing in front of Spaceship Earth waving a bad preset camera. To call Photopass "professional" is an insult to real professional photograhpers. And to demand that we pay the same price??


Who gets a 1000 pictures taken of them? Britney Spears? Does Photopass come with the head shaving as well?

I need no pity because I can enjoy life because I let the positive outweigh the negative. There is no reason to believe that everyone is out to get me.

Maybe you should talk to some of the photograhers, many of them were professional photographers long before they started with Disney. Most of the ones left are in school for photography or something related. So its not insult at all. In fact there are even photographers that run their own business and work at Disney part time for their great benefits. But you've never talked to one so you wouldn't know. I don't know about you but I wouldn't call 5,000 dollars worth of equipment bad? Each location has its own settings to get the best shot. And when do they ever wave their camera? Sadly, the photographers are way underpaid but so are all cast members.

I never said that anyone should have to pay the same price for photopass pictures... I was pointing out that Disney actually is reasonable in what they are asking for a copyright release.

I've taken more then 1,000 pictures on vacation before. In fact I won't go anywhere without my laptop and plenty of spare memory because I never know how many I'll end up taking. As far as Disney goes there are always groups traveling together that can easily get 1,000 pictures in just a couple days.

 

[tinkspark]

So I guess I'll get flamed here.. but.. I thought this article was Kinda sweet.. He didn't HAVE to invite anyone, but he did, a family with 2 little Princesses..


I would of done the same.. I probably would of picked a family with girls that were just a bit older so they could Really experience and Remember it though...

No i agree

 

[Another Voice]

But you've never talked to one so you wouldn't know.

I actually spend a good portion of my day around people who take pictures for a living. A "professional" is not "someone who's in school". And if they claim they're using a $5,000 camera out there on Main Street, then someone needs to take away their eBay account because they've been scammed.

I was pointing out that Disney actually is reasonable in what they are asking for a copyright release.

Wait a minute - I have to pay Disney for the rights to my own image!?!?!?!?! I thought that was kind of mine already. That's a great revenue enhancement right there - you're owned by Disney just by entering the parks.

Maybe the story about the guy waking up at the Grand Floridian in a tub full of ice and missing a kidney isn't an unrban myth after all...

And there is no "copyright" on taking a picture of the castle - Disney had made no effort to enforce its rights in fifty years; you loose those rights if there's no good faith effort made - especially when the pictures are for non commerical use. I'd love to see Disney sue John and Joanne Tourist for snapping an unauthorized picture!

As far as Disney goes there are always groups traveling together that can easily get 1,000 pictures in just a couple days.

Yes - but you said paying Disney's $125 wasn't unreasonable for a 1,000 pictures. So I guess this means I can force Jimmy Olson there by the Tree of Life to follow me for an entire week until I get my 1000 pictures. You've got me there, that would be a sweet deal.


It's been fun, but you've convinced me that PhotoPass is nothing but a bad and horrible way for Disney to get a few dollars more. It's a distraction from what Disney really should be doing - providing an unique and outstanding experience to their guests. They could do this by building good attractions inside interesting parks, by using imagination and talent, by instilling a sense of pride in their work. By creating a place people want to go.

Disney ought to be chasing after dreams instead of chasing after the last few coins in my pocket.

 

[raidermatt]

Hmm that is quite the opposite experience i've ever had. Nine times out of ten if a photographer sees someone taking a picture of their family they will offer to take that picture for them on their camera. And of course they can't do that if they are helping a family who does want a photopass picture.

The CD is actually quite reasonable. If you bought the rights to any pictures taken by a professional photographer... you better believe it will cost you more then 125 dollars. 125 dollars isn't bad when you can get up to 1000 pictures for it... if you had 400 pictures taken by a professional photographer it will cost you anywhere upwards from 750 dollars.

You must be just he luckiest guy ever. Never have I observed any Photopass person regularly offering to take pictures with guests' cameras, and just about every guest does have a camera.

If I hired somebody to professionally take these types of pictures, they would be 10x better than the ones the Photopass people take, so you can't base the price on what an outside photographer would charge. They rush through them at times, their framing is spotty and they struggle with lowlight conditions. That's not a knock on them personally. I'm sure they are trying to do their best in what are sometimes difficult situations, and let's face it, if they were established professional photographers, they wouldn't be on this gig. But again, we have to be honest about the product.

And yes, I have chatted with some of them. I will say this... there is a WIDE range of quality when it comes to the photographers. And as AV said, the cameras they are using are not $5000 pieces of equipment. I don't know what the photopass equipment costs, but the cameras aren't anywhere near that.

The copyright thing is a non-issue. The only reason they have the copyright is because they took the picture in the first place. They have no copyright claims against any pictures taken by anyone else for non-commercial use. I've got the same copyright protection on the pictures I take myself. That doesn't make them worth professional prices.

I'm not dead set against the thing, but there are still significant issues with it that they could address and make it more Disney. Its hardly the kind of thing you can throw out there as an example of true Disney.

 

[tinkspark]

I actually spend a good portion of my day around people who take pictures for a living. A "professional" is not "someone who's in school". And if they claim they're using a $5,000 camera out there on Main Street, then someone needs to take away their eBay account because they've been scammed.

Well SLR Nikon's Cost about 1,000 dollars just for the body. Plus they have an external flash, two different lenses, a PDA, software, an external battery for the flash, and tripods. Not to mention the little things they have for the equipment as well like a UV filter and a lens cloth. That adds up to about 5,000 dollars worth of equipment. You obviously know nothing about cameras.

Wait a minute - I have to pay Disney for the rights to my own image!?!?!?!?! I thought that was kind of mine already. That's a great revenue enhancement right there - you're owned by Disney just by entering the parks.

Maybe the story about the guy waking up at the Grand Floridian in a tub full of ice and missing a kidney isn't an unrban myth after all...

And there is no "copyright" on taking a picture of the castle - Disney had made no effort to enforce its rights in fifty years; you loose those rights if there's no good faith effort made - especially when the pictures are for non commerical use. I'd love to see Disney sue John and Joanne Tourist for snapping an unauthorized picture!

Actually that is the law. Anytime a photographer takes a picture of you they own the rights not you.

Yes - but you said paying Disney's $125 wasn't unreasonable for a 1,000 pictures. So I guess this means I can force Jimmy Olson there by the Tree of Life to follow me for an entire week until I get my 1000 pictures. You've got me there, that would be a sweet deal.


It's been fun, but you've convinced me that PhotoPass is nothing but a bad and horrible way for Disney to get a few dollars more. It's a distraction from what Disney really should be doing - providing an unique and outstanding experience to their guests. They could do this by building good attractions inside interesting parks, by using imagination and talent, by instilling a sense of pride in their work. By creating a place people want to go.

Disney ought to be chasing after dreams instead of chasing after the last few coins in my pocket.

Nobody said anything about getting 1,000 pictures of the tree. There are photographers all over the parks. There are always 20 to 50 in each of the main theme parks, more in the magic kingdom. They are at the waterparks. Kids having makeovers at bibiddi bobbodi boutique get the experience photographed by photopass. The studio they have their pictures taken in afterwards... anyone can walk in and have studio pictures taken to add to their card. During Christmas they are with Santa Claus at Downtown Disney, with the Christmas trees, at the Osbourne lights, which is especially useful at night since most guests can't get the same shot.

They will also do any shot you want, they don't have to take the picture right where they are standing... so any family could easily get 1,000 different pictures.

Like it was addressed before Photopass is not taking away from Disney's efforts into creating new attractions for the theme parks. But some how you are under the delusion that it is. The cast member that came up with the idea for Photopass pitched the idea and ran with it. He was not an attraction specialist he had an idea on how he could improve the photo system. So they did not use any extra resources to create photopass.

 

[tinkspark]

You must be just he luckiest guy ever. Never have I observed any Photopass person regularly offering to take pictures with guests' cameras, and just about every guest does have a camera.

I'm not dead set against the thing, but there are still significant issues with it that they could address and make it more Disney. Its hardly the kind of thing you can throw out there as an example of true Disney.

Well first of all they won't offer if they don't know you want a picture. They usually only offer if you are struggling to take a picture of your family or look like you looking for somoene.

Nobody said that it was true Disney. The arguement is that it is something Disney has actually tried to approve on. They are always trying to improve but some people believe they are just trying to tak the "cheap easy way out." Which is not Disney at all.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

A bit OT but maybe can put some perspective on the discussion.

tinkspark, am I right in assuming that it is your belief that Walt's ideals (the original philosophies of customer service, quality product, etc.) still live in Corporate Disney in a way that (management believes) is conducieve to doing business in the 21st Century. In other words the old tenets could never be adhered to 50 some odd years later but have HAD to adapt in time to compete in the modern workplace. Is this a correct view of the beliefs you are basing your opinions on?

 

[tinkspark]

A bit OT but maybe can put some perspective on the discussion.

tinkspark, am I right in assuming that it is your belief that Walt's ideals (the original philosophies of customer service, quality product, etc.) still live in Corporate Disney in a way that (management believes) is conducieve to doing business in the 21st Century. In other words the old tenets could never be adhered to 50 some odd years later but have HAD to adapt in time to compete in the modern workplace. Is this a correct view of the beliefs you are basing your opinions on?

That was well put, thank you. I do believe not everything is done the way Walt would have wanted it but I do believe they are still making the effort to do so.

 

[Another Voice]

Well SLR Nikon's Cost about 1,000 dollars just for the body

So you’re telling me the UV filter and lens cloth cost $4,000? The camera itself is not a $5,000 piece of equipment – the PDA to record the sucker list and the software to make sure the bad pictures end up on the right CD, I don’t care about. That’s not going to change the quality of the picture. Talk about not knowing equipment.

Actually that is the law. Anytime a photographer takes a picture of you they own the rights not you.

In this case I’ve requested the picture, it’s being taken to my specifications and I’m paying directly for it. That falls under the “for hire” law and I own the copyright. It’s the reason the guy behind the camera when they were filming the movie doesn’t own Star Wars.

I do believe not everything is done the way Walt would have wanted it but I do believe they are still making the effort to do so.

Sorry – but Walt’s dislike of sharp pencil gags and old carny tricks is as valid today as it was fifty years ago. The difference was the Walt enjoyed running his theme parks and making movies, today’s management hates the parks and sees them only as giant cash machines to pay off their poor management of the business.

 

[tinkspark]

So you’re telling me the UV filter and lens cloth cost $4,000? The camera itself is not a $5,000 piece of equipment – the PDA to record the sucker list and the software to make sure the bad pictures end up on the right CD, I don’t care about. That’s not going to change the quality of the picture. Talk about not knowing equipment.

Hmm... you conviently forget about the flash, lenses, and exernals? That does change the quality and is expensive. Without the PDA and software the system wouldn't work.

In this case I’ve requested the picture, it’s being taken to my specifications and I’m paying directly for it. That falls under the “for hire” law and I own the copyright. It’s the reason the guy behind the camera when they were filming the movie doesn’t own Star Wars..

Wrong again, because you are not paying the photographer to take the picture. You don't pay for anything unless you want the picture.

Sorry – but Walt’s dislike of sharp pencil gags and old carny tricks is as valid today as it was fifty years ago. The difference was the Walt enjoyed running his theme parks and making movies, today’s management hates the parks and sees them only as giant cash machines to pay off their poor management of the business.

If you are implying that photopass is a cheap carny trick that Walt wouldn't have enjoyed... you are wrong because he initiated having the photographers in the park. It was HIS idea.

I don't know where you got the idea that management hates the parks because they are definitely passionate about their job.

 

[DancingBear]

I like the convenience of the Photopass option of coming home and looking at the photos, cropping them and only buying the ones you want. I never bought any Disney photos under the old "pick 'em up at the front of the park" system, but I've bought Photopass photos.

BUT--

Dancing around the line of photographers on Main Street, and the bridge at AK and such, is annoying, and

It's not a service, it's just another form of souvenir. It's not an enhancement of my park experience.

 

[TheDogbots]

I like the convenience of the Photopass option of coming home and looking at the photos, cropping them and only buying the ones you want. I never bought any Disney photos under the old "pick 'em up at the front of the park" system, but I've bought Photopass photos.

BUT--

Dancing around the line of photographers on Main Street, and the bridge at AK and such, is annoying, and

It's not a service, it's just another form of souvenir. It's not an enhancement of my park experience.

wow you must be the family that won the park to themselves! considering every other guest has to walk around not just cast members, but 50x more guests that are always stopping, looking at their map, running into the people in front of them, etc... especially at those places you mentioned!

as for photopass, it is a service as is other things like locker rentals and those silly penny things.... you don't technically need any of them, but they do enhance the experience of some people. For every one person who doesn't like photopass, i am sure there is one person who doesn't know about it and one person who likes it.


But this is all off topic from the original post. I really think Disney would have taken the APs money for the guy to stay there, even if Walt was alive. Its called publicity.

 

[DancingBear]

wow you must be the family that won the park to themselves! considering every other guest has to walk around not just cast members, but 50x more guests that are always stopping, looking at their map, running into the people in front of them, etc... especially at those places you mentioned!

We were just there a month ago. Crowds were light, but I guarantee you that adding a bunch of photographers standing in the middle of Main Street (all the way from Town Square to the hub) and at the bottleneck which is the bridge entering AK, made things worse. And it's one thing to dodge fellow guests--its another to dodge another person trying to sell me something. Believe me, I never complain when the Dapper Dans are holding up traffic on Main Street.