Guilty Ride for Taking Kids Out of School

[declansdad]

I can't believe all the responses I've gotten just from posting this yesterday. I was venting because I was ticked. I have yet to read all posts which I will do so when I'm done writing this. In answer to some questions. I live in Barrie, Ontario which is about 1hr north of Toronto. The Board of Education up here is Simcoe Board. I took my kids out of school 3 years ago and back then they were in grades 8, 6, and 3. Up here those grades are all in an elementary school (no middle school involved). The principal told me that he didn't like the fact that I was taking them out but there wasn't anything he could do about it because they are my children. Fast forward to yesterday. I was really ticked. I vented on this board and then phoned my sister who by the way teaches for the Toronto Board of Education. Which has totally different rules to our board. She basically told me that this whole form is BS. You do not have to justify to the school why you are taking them out. We are going the last week of September and the Friday of that week is a PD day for both the elementary schools and high schools. My kids will be missing a total of 4 days. She as a teacher told me to screw the form. Write a short note telling the VP of the high school and the the teacher of the elementary school that the kids will be absent from Sept 25 thru Sept 28 returning on the 1st of October. The schools do not need to know why you are taking them out. Sign it and give it to the proper people on the Friday before you leave. Even though my kids are good students whether they are able to make up the work or not the 4 absent days will not make or break their school year. She says if the school has a problem with it they will get in touch with you to discuss it but really what can they do? Nothing! It's not like your the first person to take kids out of school and your not going to be the last. So this morning I wrote a short note saying that my kids will be absent and when they will be returning. I did not tell them why. It is dated Sept 22 and it will be handed to them on that day. (Which by the way is the day we leave.) End of Story!

Cheers!

I just had to edit because I finished reading all the posts. I just want to add that I don't feel guilty taking my kids out of school. If you as a parent want to take your kids out you should be able to without people trying to make you feel guilty. If you prefer to keep your kids in school and take vacations in summer thats great too. If you are a good teacher and you love your job and as a teacher if you are a compassionate person you will be able to understand why us parents take our kids out of school to have family time. I just want to clarify that not all of us are able to take holidays the same time as the school has there holidays. We should be allowed to take the time off without any justification or guilt. Just because a school closes at Christmas, March Break, Summer Break doesn't mean that all professions are able to get that time off too!

You are correct in saying that no one should feel guilty about taking your children out of school if that is the only time available to you to travel as a family. I am curious though as to why you wouldn't just give them the note now? If you see no problem in your decision, why wait to tell the school?

Also, just because your sister is a teacher in Toronto doesn't mean she would understand the policies of another district. The reason for the form could simply be so that things are documented as to what was going on with your children. A school, just like any other institution, needs to be able to provide documentation as to what happened/didn't happen if there ever was a legal dispute. I'm not saying that is what would happen but unfortunately that is what our society is becoming.

 

[drag n' fly]

double post

 

[drag n' fly]

I'm not a parent nor a teacher...just an observer. My question, and don't kill me because this topic always seems to get heated, is...why should you expect a teacher to do EXTRA work so that your child can go on vacation to WDW? I'm sure a lot of them do extra work already for no extra pay.

Wouldn't it tick you off if you had to work overtime because a co-worker, somebody you don't particularly know very well, has been given permission to disappear for a week or two and enjoy themselves while you had to do their work?

Reading all these threads by supporters of pulling kids out of school (high school even), makes it sounds like it was a piece of cake for all the kids to make up the time, the work and the lessons. While I don't doubt the intelligence and comittment of these kids, it couldn't be easy for all of them to catch up 1 week of missed classes in high school. Bring homework with you on vacation? Oy, what kind of vacation is that?

I read with great interest about the one school who mentioned that it was ok to miss so many days but her child would not be exempt from the exams and that she was fine with this since exams prepared students for university. Ummmm...was this fine with the daughter? She may love the idea of getting out of school for a week but come exam time, probably not. What's better for preparing students for university? Exams or time spent in class.

Lots of people mention pulling their kids without any problems but most of these kids are still in elementary school. High school is such a different kettle of fish.

Like I said, don't kill me for having a differing opinion. A lot of times, this topic comes up and it seems like a support group for pulling kids out rather than one of differing opinions. I thought I'd throw in another view.

"Wouldn't it tick you off if you had to work overtime because a co-worker, somebody you don't particularly know very well, has been given permission to disappear for a week or two and enjoy themselves while you had to do their work?"




Your comparison that a coworker has to pick up the slack while someone takes time off does not even relate to what I said. Implying I have no respect for the teachers time is incorrect. A package given to the child to complete is not taking advantage of the teachers time. It is a simple request for something that is going to be taught anyways and most teachers are so well prepared they already know months ahead what they are teaching. I have never had a problem with any of my kids teachers and have been more than happy to oblige with any requests and in return we do the same. I just feel your view as an "observer" is a bit jaded and had my thread been completely quoted by you, you would have also noticed that I have my own opinion about kids leaving high school for any length of time. A relationship with a child's teacher is based on mutual respect and communication. Basically you get what you give. Even though I respect your opinion, you should try to relate to what the people with children are saying on this thread instead of insulting them for making what they feel is in the best interests of their children and their family.

 

[mommytodarlings]

I had to fill out the form and get principal's approval for dd who just started kindergarten. I was ticked at needing approval. I mean how much is she really going to miss anyway.

My parents always pulled me out of school for vacations. Whether it was for a fall extra long weekend of camping or Florida, they never had any problems.

I did have a few teachers make comments when I came back, things like I wouldn't know the lesson because I "was down south with my toes in the sand" I just brushed it off.

At least I had a nice vacation,

 

[drag n' fly]

I had to fill out the form and get principal's approval for dd who just started kindergarten. I was ticked at needing approval. I mean how much is she really going to miss anyway.

My parents always pulled me out of school for vacations. Whether it was for a fall extra long weekend of camping or Florida, they never had any problems.

I did have a few teachers make comments when I came back, things like I wouldn't know the lesson because I "was down south with my toes in the sand" I just brushed it off.

At least I had a nice vacation,

That was funny!

 

[F4disneyfan]

We have been very lucky our kids teachers have always wished teh kids well and asked them to do a journal and take lots of pictures so they could present it to the class when they got back. My oldest DD even missed a provincial testing day while we were on holidays one year. If the school ever gave me a problem about going away in Dec I would tell them to go pound salt my kids my decision end of discussion.

 

[DCA_MillionaireFreak]

That's odd, I explained to my teachers that I was going to go to DLR in May, my agenda mentioned a form but I never was required to have it, I made arrangements to make up work (one teacher just told me to have a good time), and I was good and my grades didn't suffer. It's weird that you would require approval, as a matter of fact my agenda even says "But the sole decision is on the parent and student".

 

[pxlbarrel]

Your comparison that a coworker has to pick up the slack while someone takes time off does not even relate to what I said. Implying I have no respect for the teachers time is incorrect. A package given to the child to complete is not taking advantage of the teachers time. It is a simple request for something that is going to be taught anyways and most teachers are so well prepared they already know months ahead what they are teaching. I have never had a problem with any of my kids teachers and have been more than happy to oblige with any requests and in return we do the same. I just feel your view as an "observer" is a bit jaded and had my thread been completely quoted by you, you would have also noticed that I have my own opinion about kids leaving high school for any length of time. A relationship with a child's teacher is based on mutual respect and communication. Basically you get what you give. Even though I respect your opinion, you should try to relate to what the people with children are saying on this thread instead of insulting them for making what they feel is in the best interests of their children and their family.

OK, I'm now quoting your entire post since you seem to think I had an ulterior motive in NOT quoting your entire post earlier (it was merely so people didn't have to re-read the entire thing). Please tell me where I insulted people for making what they feel is in the best interest of their children and their family? And where in my post do I even say I don't relate with what people are saying?

My feelings about these threads is that people make it sound so easy for their kids to get right back into the swing of things and catch up. There's ALWAYS at least one post where people are ticked off at their teachers/school board/principal because they're not really happy that the kids are taking so much time off of a school. "It's none of their business"...well, in a way...it is their business. Their job is to teach your children and it's hard if they're not in class. I suppose that if a teacher or principal wants to talk to you about it, it's not to bar you from doing so (well, they couldn't) but to make sure you have thought it through and know the consequences. And sure, that may be demeaning or insulting that they think you don't have the best interests of your kids in mind, but it's not you that they're thinking about....it's the kids.

I love family vacations as much as the next person. I'm just not sure the general statement that "taking a high schooler out for a week is not a problem" is such a good one to be spreading. (That's in quotes....not because I'm quoting anybody specifically...cause I'm not.)

And why is it that whenever somebody comes onto a thread with a different opinion, they ALWAYS have to say, "Don't kill me or don't flame me"?

 

[seashoreCM]

Could you rather than the teachers prepare a package (a list) of things your kids will have accomplished as of two weeks following their return? Some of the items should already have been accomplished prior to departure and you can set aside some study time at the resort for more of the things. The list just needs to look like it more or less follows the curriculum and need not match (is not itself a quiz whose correct answers match) exactly what the teacher would have prepared as a list. If the teacher prepares a list anyway, then discard your list.

A teacher reserves the right to give your kid upon return the same test the rest of the class got the previous week. So it is not an inherent burden on the teacher when your kid misses a test.

 

[drag n' fly]

OK, I'm now quoting your entire post since you seem to think I had an ulterior motive in NOT quoting your entire post earlier (it was merely so people didn't have to re-read the entire thing). Please tell me where I insulted people for making what they feel is in the best interest of their children and their family? And where in my post do I even say I don't relate with what people are saying?

My feelings about these threads is that people make it sound so easy for their kids to get right back into the swing of things and catch up. There's ALWAYS at least one post where people are ticked off at their teachers/school board/principal because they're not really happy that the kids are taking so much time off of a school. "It's none of their business"...well, in a way...it is their business. Their job is to teach your children and it's hard if they're not in class. I suppose that if a teacher or principal wants to talk to you about it, it's not to bar you from doing so (well, they couldn't) but to make sure you have thought it through and know the consequences. And sure, that may be demeaning or insulting that they think you don't have the best interests of your kids in mind, but it's not you that they're thinking about....it's the kids.

I love family vacations as much as the next person. I'm just not sure the general statement that "taking a high schooler out for a week is not a problem" is such a good one to be spreading. (That's in quotes....not because I'm quoting anybody specifically...cause I'm not.)

And why is it that whenever somebody comes onto a thread with a different opinion, they ALWAYS have to say, "Don't kill me or don't flame me"?

Gee mabey it may be due to the hostiliy and judgemental tone of your thread. I believe I stated many of the same things on my response as you have. I believe you are attempting to address everyone's point in this thread. I felt you were making irrelevant comparisons in regards to what this thread is about and then getting steamed at everyone because you at times do not make sense. My response specifically has nothing to do with disrespect for teachers and a poor attitude towards following school protocol. If you have concerns about those posts you need to quote and address them individually not glom them all together and wonder why I thought you were insulting people. As for ulterior motive..none whatsoever I am concerned that you are lashing out at everyone with your personal "observers" opinion and then wondering why someone just might say quit flaming?

 

[RainbowsMist]

I too work in an Elementary School and I must agree with a previous poster. I see kids come to class 10-15 minutes late all the time. Right there that's 10-15 minutes that the teacher has to stop and go over again and explain to the student that was late what was missed. Meanwhile they could be using that time more wisely and it's very disruptive to the entire class. Imagine if it was a student that had missed 5-10 entire school days? Sure there is homework and worksheets that can be done..BUT there will be LOTS of questions and explanations that need to be addressed to that particular individual student. That time is being taken away from the other students (those that did show up for the previous 5-10 days). It's amazing how much time can be lost.

That being said, I too am going to WDW in March 2007. We're going for 2 weeks however 1 of those 2 weeks is our March break. My children (4, 10,12) will be missing 5 school days rather than 10. My children will also be taking work with them therefore they won't be "lost" when they get back & hold the class up. I'm going to meet with their teachers before we leave to be sure we'll have all bases covered.

Regardless, I hope you enjoy your trip with your family and get this situation resolved peacefully and quickly.

Good luck!

 

[pxlbarrel]

Gee mabey it may be due to the hostiliy and judgemental tone of your thread. I believe I stated many of the same things on my response as you have. I believe you are attempting to address everyone's point in this thread. I felt you were making irrelevant comparisons in regards to what this thread is about and then getting steamed at everyone because you at times do not make sense. My response specifically has nothing to do with disrespect for teachers and a poor attitude towards following school protocol. If you have concerns about those posts you need to quote and address them individually not glom them all together and wonder why I thought you were insulting people. As for ulterior motive..none whatsoever I am concerned that you are lashing out at everyone with your personal "observers" opinion and then wondering why someone just might say quit flaming?

This is ridiculous. There was no "hostility" in my original post nor in my subsequent until you tried to make it so. Just because I quoted your one line, does NOT mean the entire message was directed at YOU.

I'll stop quoting people now...it just seems to get me in trouble in this thread.

I'm not sure how I'm judgemental when I don't really care if you guys pull your kids or not. I do care that there seems to be such suspicion regarding the motives of various school boards, teachers, and principals. Perhaps I'm wrong but I would find it reassuring if a teacher was concerned about a child missing school. I would find it disturbing if they didn't care. I'll bow out of this thread now as it seems that I upset some people and in the whole scheme of things, I don't really care enough to continue this "hostility".

 

[PandaBear & Boo]

You are correct in saying that no one should feel guilty about taking your children out of school if that is the only time available to you to travel as a family. I am curious though as to why you wouldn't just give them the note now? If you see no problem in your decision, why wait to tell the school?

Also, just because your sister is a teacher in Toronto doesn't mean she would understand the policies of another district. The reason for the form could simply be so that things are documented as to what was going on with your children. A school, just like any other institution, needs to be able to provide documentation as to what happened/didn't happen if there ever was a legal dispute. I'm not saying that is what would happen but unfortunately that is what our society is becoming.

Why should I have to tell them in advance. So that my kids get bogged down with work to do. This is our vacation our family time. I am not going to worry about whether my kids are writing in their journals or doing whatever other work their teachers gave them. Last time when I pulled them out my daughter was given so much that it just got to be ridiculus. Not going through that again.

As for my sister, I never mentioned in my post that she understood the policies. She just said it was Bullsh**. She has been a teacher for almost 30 years and I think that she knows by now that all Boards of Education are different.

 

[Scratch42]

Correct me if I'm wrong..............

But isn't ALL SCHOOL BOARDS IN ONTARIO SUPPOSE to follow the same curriculum?

Well DD forgot to go to the office once again!

Let's hope today she is successful!

j

 

[PandaBear & Boo]

Correct me if I'm wrong..............

But isn't ALL SCHOOL BOARDS IN ONTARIO SUPPOSE to follow the same curriculum?

j

I think they have the same curriculum but it's the policies and procedures that are different.

 

[declansdad]

Why should I have to tell them in advance. So that my kids get bogged down with work to do. This is our vacation our family time. I am not going to worry about whether my kids are writing in their journals or doing whatever other work their teachers gave them. Last time when I pulled them out my daughter was given so much that it just got to be ridiculus. Not going through that again.

As for my sister, I never mentioned in my post that she understood the policies. She just said it was Bullsh**. She has been a teacher for almost 30 years and I think that she knows by now that all Boards of Education are different.

I think that you should tell them in advance for nothing more than common courtesy. Finding out at the last minute can cause headaches for teachers. If there was activities planned that included daughter, this would obviously change things in that class.

You also stated that it is your decision to take your child out of class (which I agreed with), so to me it know looks like your are waiting simply to avoid telling the school.

 

[jakoky]

hi there, we just pulled our kids out in may to go to DL....DD-gr 5, DS-gr 7, and DD-gr 9(high school AND on the semester system)...I let all her teachers know that would be away for 12 days, but they only missed 6 school days...bascially they all said they were jealous....she was given only a small amount of math to do and socials studies while away...she did it at the airport and 1 night on the trip....the funniest thing was, when we got back she had to do some catching up, but the only grade affected by her absences was her art grade...i think if any of my kids struggled in school i would not have pulled them out as long as i did, but they all get good grades and i knew that with just a little effort they could and would catch up...dont feel guilty, have fun...i wish we were going back right now

 

[laura001]

I'm a little ticked right now and frustrated! We have a planned trip the end of this month actually in less than 2 weeks. The reason I'm ticked is because one of my DS's came home from high school today with an extended absence form that says quote "Student will speak to Vice Principal for approval and signature." Since when do I need to get approval from a Vice Principal. This is the time that my husband has holidays. It is very frustrating to me that this school is trying to make me feel guilty about having a family vacation. My son said that the secretary told him that the board disagrees with high school students taking vacations during the school year. If that is the case than why do they have this extended absence form. This form is to be used for reasons other than illness or family emergencies. Am I wrong in getting upset over this? I pay my taxes which in turn pays these Board of Education People. It just really ticks me off and I am fuming. I have taken my kids out of school before when they were all in elementary school this is the first time I have taken my kids out of high school. Has anyone taken their kids out of high school before? If so can you please tell me how it went with the school and if you were given the guily ride. Thanks for letting me vent.

You are not wrong at all....speak to the Vice Principal etc. and get the work from his teacher's. I don't understand why they get themselves in such a pickle over all of this.

It is ok for the kids to miss school because of a school trip to say....oh, Paris (not an educational trip)....it is ok to miss because they are in the musical at school, which works out to far more than a week.....it is ok to miss to go touring with the band for a week at different schools at Christmas time ...it is ok to miss a week of the classes they signed up for because the school has screwed up the students schedule (it takes 2 weeks sometimes to get them into the classes they were supposed to be in) and what do they say when that happens...."oh, they can catch up" Oh , please!

Hope it all works out and you have a great vacation!!!

 

[Chester's Mum]

I had this situation in January when I took my daughter out of school (grade 12). She was off for the week between Semester ending at Science Centre School, and would miss 4 days of the second semester at her regular school. We cooperated (although I must admit I was a little miffed), and in addition to speaking to the vice principal (as a matter of fact, he helped her complete the form), I wrote a nice letter explaining my reasons for taking vacation at this time and thanking them for their patience. It was delivered to the school 2 days before we left.

They lost the letter, claimed that my daughter had never come in to the school to talk to anyone, and implied that we were not being entirely truthful, in addition to leaving some alarming messages on our answering machine about the whereabouts of our dd. When I returned, I phoned the school and explained everything, they appeared to be doubtful about my story, but I persisted, emphasizing my dd's impeccable attendance record, and outstanding academic record. They finally relented, apologized for the misunderstanding and all in all it was a tempest in a teapot.

Anyway, everyone makes mistakes, and I'm sure they are getting pressure from somewhere if they are getting into rows with parents about stuff like a 4 day absence. She could have the flu for longer. Nuff said. Don't worry about it, just fill in the form and send it in. Fact is you're going and what are they going to do about it?

You should read some of the posts from the U.S. about taking kids out of school, you think our school boards are bad? Boy are they mean.

 

[PandaBear & Boo]

After some deep thought and over thinking I finally decided that I wasn't going to fill out the form. Instead I wrote the following letter one to my boys vice principal and one to my daughters teacher.

Dear So and So,

This is to notify you that my sons/daughter will be absent from school next week, Sept 25 thru to Sept 28, due to a family vacation. This vacation has been planned since the beginning of the year and I do apologize for the fact that it is during school time, but this is the only time that my husband is able to get his vacation time from work. My sons/daughter will be returning to school on Oct 2. Thanking you in Advance. Sincerely, Me!

So does that sound ok? Thanks to all your posts!