Guess what they are planning on replacing the fireworks and parade with?

[Peter Pirate]

Come on LB, you know I know that...I was just kiddin' with Bob.

However, my point was IF (that's a big if) they were to quit curtailing things and actually give back (hours, etc.) wouldn't it make sense to implement a dark day (say MGM on Monday, Epcot on Tuesday & AK on Wedneday) until crowds were warranting more? I realize it'd be a huge stretch for this management to see the light but they could actually have the best of both worlds. They'd save bigtime on a whole Park being closed 3 days a week and ths would way more than offset the added hours to the open parks...But, again, it would take someone who actually does want to fix things to understand and implement this. Sadly, it would more likely be close the parks and further reduce the hours...Until there is no one left to visit anyway..

By the way, I am not necesarly endorsing this plan, I just think it's an interesting scenerio and one possibility...

 

[Another Voice]

A few more whispers –

Whatever nighttime show is selected, it’s rumored that it will only happen on Friday and Saturday nights. It will be in place of the nighttime parade & fireworks that had been the standard at the Magic Kingdom. If enough people stay (and spend money on merchandise) in the park, the number of days could be expanded – but it’s rumored to be very unlikely. The rumor why the Character Crowd is being pushed in certain quarters is that it can be held in daylight and support a six (or earlier) closing.

On “dark days” for the park. First off, this is not a tactic to adapt to lowered attendance. Even with the current downturn, attendance is still higher than it was when a couple years ago when WDW was able to keep four parks open without even breathing heavy. Closing parks is only to increase profits – the assumption is that the same number of people would be spending the same amount of money in three parks, but that Disney would save tremendous costs by closing the fourth park.

The reason that Animal Kingdom “needs” a shut-down day is the same reason that California Adventure “needs” a dark day. The parks were designed to operate seven days a week, three hundred sixty-five days a year. The problems are caused by budget cuts and poor decisions (to save money). In DCA’s case, the rumor is that traveling versions of its off-the-shelf rides were purchased to save money, but are being run far more hours than the structures could possibly handle. At the time the rides were purchased, the argument was that superior Disney maintenance would make up the difference. Of course, guess which department gets hit with the steepest budget cuts. So basically closing a park for a day or two is simple a way to make the guests pay for Disney’s mistakes.

And the dark days themselves are not financial the best option. In strictly business terms they are hugely expensive assets that are going to sit idle. Isn't it better to figure out a way to make them productive? Customers for the parks are on site all the time.

Lastly, it’s true that Disneyland was closed on Monday and Tuesdays during the off season in the 1960’s & 1970’s. It was a very different market than WDW (mostly local visitors versus mostly vacationers) and at a time when travel pattern were very different (vacations and trips were much more confined to summer than they are now). There is no comparison between that situation and what WDW is rumored to doing.

Mr. Pirate – Walt got it without question. But it seems that Eisner has defiantly lost it.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Mr. Voice...I tend to agree.

But as to the necessary AK down time. My friend tells me the issues of savannah habitat maintenace were downplayed during AK's planning & inception & the people in charge of the environment alwas new a down day was, in his opinion, a necessity. The situation is now worsening...

 

[Luv2Roam]

Maybe the early critics of DAK were right -- Disney should have kept their fingers out of the live animal business.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

And the dark days themselves are not financial the best option. In strictly business terms they are hugely expensive assets that are going to sit idle.

It also doesn’t do a hell of a lot for marketing and image. From their point of view it’s better to ‘pretend’ all is well and make their cuts (strictly for profit to prop up other aspects of the company) by diminishing the SHOW. Their hope is that most people won’t notice or even if they do it won’t make a big difference. By going with a “dark day” concept, they are admitting defeat!

Isn't it better to figure out a way to make them productive? Customers for the parks are on site all the time.

AV!!! I’m a little surprised at you!! You’re using logic! And business insight!! Something the “Head Mouse” doesn’t know much about, it seems!!!

 

[hopemax]

Peter, is this friend someone that you talk to regularly?

I'm trying to imagine why AK needs a down day, but the 1,800 acre San Diego Wild Animal Park is able to operate 365 days.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by hopemax
Peter, is this friend someone that you talk to regularly?

I'm trying to imagine why AK needs a down day, but the 1,800 acre San Diego Wild Animal Park is able to operate 365 days.

...*cough* Bush Gardens, *cough * Sea World *cough*

 

[larry_poppins]

Thank God for the Oriental Land Company!
We will always have Tokyo.

Larry

 

[Peter Pirate]

Got a frog in your through Euorpa?

San Diego, Sea World & Busch Gardens didn't try to totally & accurately emulate a foreign landscape for their attractions. The problem lies with the plant material, the Florida climate and the inability of the imported material to adapt & reproduce as rapidly as it would in its native environment. Add to this the fact that the animals in this environment are captive to their region and can't wander away as they could in the wild. The responseto this dilemma by the landscapineers (I coined a new term) can't be done in the dark...

 

[EUROPA]

The point is that these are all problems that other places are able to over come and that Disney has for years now. Remember the aniamals at AK don't even live in the enviorment. They are only out there at most 12 hours of day(8 most of the time). They don't eat the stuff that grows on the land. Closing the park for a day would not be a repsonse or answer to those problems. Which they have been able to slove for years and are now a "problem", yet it would be due to Disney's mistakes in other areas of the company.

 

[Luv2Roam]

If you removed the Asian animals and non-native fauna from San Diego Zoo, there would be little remaining...
They seem to do a pretty darn good job, with a Skyfari to boot!
Peter Pirate -- I think you and your friend are losing this cause.

 

[Peter Pirate]

The pont is I'm talking about the plants not the animals (what other place has tried to recreate such an enviroment). The animals wern't intended to eat what grows naturallly, but guess what? They are and Disney was warned ahead of time about this & chose to forge ahead anyway. BTW, the SD Zoo is little league compared to the faux savannahs.

My friend worked for Disney, was involved in the AK (animal side) planning & implementation at AK & today see's real problems associated with what they've tried to do.

I've only tried to share a little information from inside the realm, take it for what it's worth...

 

[Bob O]

Peter-The thing is is that if they did close a park one day a week is that initially they might have longer hours and the parks that are opened. But in time they would reduce those hours and still have parks closed and the waits for attractions would be increased. If your friend is right is a maintence problem caused by AK and not the fact the park is open 7 days a week.
To me the bottom line is that disney believes they have a very dedicated fan base and that they can make these cuts and the disney fanatics will just take it all in and not complain and tow the company line and just keep coming and keep spending money. Kind of how the cigarette smokers keeping gettin hit with taxes and do little complaining but keep buying cigs no matter what the cost. As long as the public keeps justifying their actions it wont stop.

 

[roymccoy]

Very good points, Bob O.

Roy

 

[Another Voice]

In other words Mr. Pirate, I’m supposed to lose a quarter of my vacation options because Disney ignored advice from experts on how to plant a garden?

At the very least, why does the entire park have to be shut down simply to accommodate the maintenance needs of a single attraction? Wouldn’t it be better to simply shut down the safari for one day a week and leave the rest of this “full day” park open? Or how about running the safari half-days two days a week? Certainly loosing just one ride (like happens all the time due to rehabs) would be better than losing a whole park for the guests. There must be dozens of other solutions for plant maintenance.

But maybe there is a plant that’s at the center of this whole issue: fig tree. Disney needs the leaves to cover over some embarrassing management decisions.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Certainly loosing just one ride (like happens all the time due to rehabs) would be better than losing a whole park for the guests.

AV is the greatest...I really do wish I knew the true identity..but this really gave me a smile...Imagine seeing a board with a few attractions listed as closed for the day at AK like they have at the true "full-day" parks... that is a funny image the proves what a lame-a** excuse for a theme park AK is as a full-price entertainment option...
of course this can happen even with a great park like the original--- when my secretary was in Anaheim earlier this year she decided to see Disneyland for the first time ever, but at the gate they had one of those signs telling everyone that IASW, SM, POC, HM....etc were all closed for repairs..I was not there and may have some of the details slightly off-the point is that a huge number of the star attractions were closed for maintenance-so she and her family skipped going altogether. It just wasn't worth the time and money at that point...and I don't blame them...that is how our family feels about the fully operational AK...so closing AK one day a week would not alter our options -though the crowd disbursement between 9 and 3 would be affected--closing AK one day a week (or more) to save the other parks seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Peter Pirate]

OK. My last post on the subject & you guys win.

Bob, Roy, I am not arguing that Disney should close their parks on a rotating basis (repeat: I am not arguing in favor of this) I only introduced it for (pertinent) discussion but I guess you guys don't want to discuss things, just beat a dead horse.

The only defending I'm doing is in regard to what my friend said. Yes AV they could close the Safari & Pangani Trail but as was pointed out by Paul that leaves quite a hole in the park (the main reason people go to AK in the first place). That is why my friend suggestd the whole park be closed (I didn't think the obvious needed to be pointed out). Further, he in no way has defended Disney, in fact his comments are quite critical. He hs said (for the last time) that the way the animal habitat was put together would require virtually a whole days landscaping work per week. His group had big problems with this during design & was overuled. Disagree all you want...

Voice how does closing AK for one day a week = 1/4 of your vacation options? Do you typically take one day vacations? That comment deserves a Jeez Louise, I think!

Lastly, it's sad the way this board has turned away from practical dscussion, especially from my perspective (a guy who has in the past defended Eisner but now wishes he'd go). It'd be nice to discuss possibilities, both remote & realistic, but as long as Eisner's in charge most of you will just keep beating that drum...

 

[roymccoy]

is four pages long....how can you say that we aren't "practically discussing" it?

Seems like we're practically discussing it to me!

Roy

 

[Another Voice]

Before you set sail again Mr. Pirate, let me respond.

I too am not advocating closing any of the parks. But I do believe it will happen soon. If it does I wish that The Company would simply be honest with its guests. No lying, no spin, no phony marketing “the guests prefer character interaction and we’re putting in a new kitchen” press releases – just tell us the truth. We can handle it.

The gardening argument for closing down the Animal Kingdom just comes off as one of those intelligence-insulting excuses we’re likely to hear when AK goes dark on Wednesdays and Thursdays. Does anyone really believe that a company renowned throughout the world for imagination and innovation can’t come up with a better why of running the weed whacker than closing down an entire theme park for an entire day? Whether they use this excuse or the “animals need a break” line, it’s still just an excuse to cover-up the real motivation behind what they’re doing.

As for the “quarter of my vacation options”; the way I look at it a trip to WDW is very much like a cruise. I’m there to enjoy the ship, its amenities and its destinations. Closing a park for a couple of days is removing some of my options. I really feel it’s akin to a cruise ship staying docked in port for an extra day to save fuel costs. Yes, I can enjoy all that the ship has to offer, but I’m paying a lot of money to have a choice of activities. The fewer choices I have and the more restrictive those choices become, the less money I am willing to pay.

Faced with an attendance problem, my reaction would be to try to make WDW more appealing to guests and bring more people in (even if it lowers margins a bit). The current management’s response is to reduce costs faster than it’s losing guests. It’s a short term strategy that will maximize short term profits. But it’s also a strategy that will seriously hurt The Company in the long term and that’s been my concern about the current management all along.

The worse part of this whole issue is that I really think that closing a park for a few days can be done in a way that would be accepted by the guests. Be upfront about it, provide compensation, and treat the guests like intelligent adults. We all know about the economy, we all know about the problems with tourism and we’d be willing to accept Disney’s honest attempts to deal with their problems.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Well, I am glad I haven't bought my airline tckets for January yet.
I can see going for the marathon as planned, but I can see where our length of stay may be revised.
Just doesn't seem now is a good time to go. Better to let them battle and tweak and let the dust settle, and then make a judgment on whether it's worth returning or not and for how long.