Grrr... Passenger Vessels Services Act

KMack

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Mar 10, 2012
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129
Grrrrrr... we booked a B2B for November. New York to San Juan and then San Juan to Miami. Disney contacted our TA today to tell them that the PSVA does not consider Antigua a foreign port for the purposes of the legislations. As a result, we have to cancel one of the cruises because we may be denied boarding in San Juan.

Has anyone else experienced this before????
 
Grrrrrr... we booked a B2B for November. New York to San Juan and then San Juan to Miami. Disney contacted our TA today to tell them that the PSVA does not consider Antigua a foreign port for the purposes of the legislations. As a result, we have to cancel one of the cruises because we may be denied boarding in San Juan.

Has anyone else experienced this before????
The PVSA looks at where a passenger embarks a ship and where the same passenger debarks the ship in making it's determinations.

So, your B2B would be a NY to Miami cruise. You can't sail from one US port to a different US port without a stop in a DISTANT foreign port. A distant foreign port, to the PVSA, is any port NOT "in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)".

Antigua (West Indies) is considered part of North America, so doesn't qualify as a distant foreign port.

To answer the question - yes, there are people who have experienced this before (check out the Alaska repo cruises in 2012 to see what happened there).
 
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ot sure how yours slipped through the system this long.
I believe the DCL booking system isn't set up to recognize B2B cruises that would be illegal under the PVSA (unlike some other cruise lines). They probably have to wait until some real person does the bookings checks.
 
You said you have a travel agent. Your travel agent didn’t know this. I will be looking for a new one.
Can’t fault our travel agent. We booked online through Costco weeks apart. The second booking was just a few days ago.

Asinine protectionist legislation.
 
Can one of your cruises be on a different cruiseline for about the same dates? It sitnks, but it is what it is.
 
The act does not prohibit such transport (it can't) - it applies a fine to be paid for any passenger which is transported from one US port to another, somewhere to the tune of $750. If an emergency requires a passenger to debark in US port, he/she is responsible for this fine (which is paid to cruise line, in turn paying to feds). I wonder if similar could apply to B2B.
 
The act does not prohibit such transport (it can't) - it applies a fine to be paid for any passenger which is transported from one US port to another, somewhere to the tune of $750. If an emergency requires a passenger to debark in US port, he/she is responsible for this fine (which is paid to cruise line, in turn paying to feds). I wonder if similar could apply to B2B.
It is a violation for a cruise ship to transport a passenger between different US ports without a stop in a distant foreign port.

From the PVSA (bolding mine):
Coastwise transportation of passengers—19 CFR § 4.80a
There are three common transportation violations, set forth below, that can occur when a non-coastwise-qualified vessel transports passengers between U.S. coastwise ports.

First, a non-coastwise-qualified vessel transports a passenger directly between U.S. coastwise ports. (19 CFR § 4.80a(b)(1)). For example, a violative coastwise transportation occurs when a passenger embarks in San Francisco and is carried to Seattle, where he/she disembarks.

The fine is assessed against the cruise line. Typically, the cost is then charged to the passenger's onboard account (so that the passenger "pays" the fine). And, if the cruise line continues to allow such violations, they can be banned from the ports involved. No cruise line will knowingly violate the law in this manner.

This fine is also assessed against a passenger that dies while on the cruise and the body taken from the ship in a different US port than originally embarked in. In that case, the fine can be challenged, and will, usually, be dismissed.

There's no such provision to allow any number of people to willingly violate the law and "just pay the fine".

BTW, the fine is now $778 for each passenger that violates the PVSA (I got that from the https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-&-the-passenger-vessel-services-act)
 
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I'm perpetually surprised there hasn't been activity on overturning that. An awful lot of wealthy cruisers are regularly inconvenienced/irritated by this. And there's no clear benefit.
 
I'm perpetually surprised there hasn't been activity on overturning that. An awful lot of wealthy cruisers are regularly inconvenienced/irritated by this. And there's no clear benefit.
It's been proposed several times to change/repeal the act, but it never makes it through.

Most of the changes made the act much less palatable than it is now. Including one that would require all foreign port stops to be 48 hours minimum. And another change requiring at least 50% of all cruise ports stops on any given cruise have to be a foreign port.

The history of the act had to do with protecting american jobs.

In 1886, President Cleveland tried to protect American jobs by signing the Passenger Vessel Services Act, which permits only U.S.-flagged vessels to carry travelers between U.S. ports, such as San Diego and Seattle or New York and Miami. How does a ship get a U.S. flag? To qualify, the ship must be made at a U.S. shipbuilding facility, owned by an American company and staffed by an American crew.
 
I feel like the people who don't see what the PSVA does to protect American's interests are also the same people who do not understand the importance of the Electoral College. (And no, I am not saying the two things are connected in any particular way.)
 
I feel like the people who don't see what the PSVA does to protect American's interests are also the same people who do not understand the importance of the Electoral College. (And no, I am not saying the two things are connected in any particular way.)

They can drop the cruise ship portion without repealing the entire law.
 
They can drop the cruise ship portion without repealing the entire law.
Since the "entire law" pertains to "Passenger Vessels" that would be difficult.

From the first page of the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act):

the laws and regulations that are to be adhered to by the trade community engaged in the coastwise transportation of passengers,
 
Since the "entire law" pertains to "Passenger Vessels" that would be difficult.

From the first page of the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act):

the laws and regulations that are to be adhered to by the trade community engaged in the coastwise transportation of passengers,

But most of the arguments always end up being about national defense and somehow the Navy rather than economics. Although part of that seems to be people confusing it with the Jones Act. Repealing the PVSA would mean a lot more American jobs. But they'd be union jobs. Maybe that's what people don't like.
 

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