GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[roomthreeseventeen]

Perhaps but I think the point was that NYC cannot continue outside dining into the winter. Then what?

I assume we go back to delivery and takeout. Outside dining isn't a huge business. Most restaurants have four or five tables at the most.

 

[montreid]

Very doubtful, since the Northeast states are still largely closed. The reason the Southern states have such bad outbreaks now is because they are open.

My point -- sustained large scale economic generating outside activities won't be a viable option in Jan in northern states. So the choice is either driven indoors or another proverbial shutdown for our northern states.

Given recent choices, I would venture a portion of America is going to choose more indoor activities in non-family-bubble groups, hence a resurgence of the virus.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

My point -- sustained large scale economic generating outside activities won't be a viable option in Jan in northern states. So the choice is either driven indoors or another proverbial shutdown for our northern states.

Given recent choices, I would venture a portion of America is going to choose more indoor activities in non-family-bubble groups, hence a resurgence of the virus.

Cuomo has said we go back to phase 1 if that happens.

 

[dvcgirl67]

My point -- sustained large scale economic generating outside activities won't be a viable option in Jan in northern states. So the choice is either driven indoors or another proverbial shutdown for our northern states.

Given recent choices, I would venture a portion of America is going to choose more indoor activities in non-family-bubble groups, hence a resurgence of the virus.

This is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Cuomo has said we go back to phase 1 if that happens.

In your opinion how long is that really sustainable/viable? Both from an economic standpoint and a compliance one?

 

[EveDallas]

Not in my part of Texas. And I’m outside a major city. I’m sure it’s possible but it’s not ALL of Texas.

.

 

[EveDallas]

This is what's happening in Texas.

Funeral homes are running out of storage space for the deceased or facing delays of more than a week to bury bodies. Crematories are backing up.
The federal government has dispatched mobile morgues. Refrigerated trucks are popping up behind hospital wards and funeral homes, bodies wrapped in plastic or sheets lined up on their floors.

Never mind. Not even worth it.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Never mind. Not even worth it.

You don't like facts?

 

[Jrb1979]

This is happening in a PORTION of Texas. Not the entire state.

Its still happening so it's a bad thing. I love how everyone just puts their head in the sand and try to downplay it. More should be done to help with the spread. For some reason NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT. Make masks mandatory, fine any that don't follow social distancing. I'm sure a $900 fine will make people listen. Hoping for it to bet better doesn't work.

 

[EveDallas]

You don't like facts?

Again. not worth it.

 

[EveDallas]

Its still happening so it's a bad thing. I love how everyone just puts their head in the sand and try to downplay it. More should be done to help with the spread. For some reason NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT. Make masks mandatory, fine any that don't follow social distancing. I'm sure a $900 fine will make people listen. Hoping for it to bet better doesn't work.

Not downplaying anything. Simply pointing out that it isn't the whole state.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Again. not worth it.

OK, again, almost everyone here lives in reality. You seem not to.

 

[dvcgirl67]

In your opinion how long is that really sustainable/viable? Both from an economic standpoint and a compliance one?

You didn't ask me, but it's not viable economically. As it is, the PPP money is running out, unemployment is going off a cliff as well. These things were supposed to be the "bridge" from April to July. But the bridge wasn't long enough because we didn't tackle the virus as a nation.

NYC is going to be in a 25-50% mode for the foreseeable future. We're about a 60 minute train ride to the city (shorter by ferry). And *nobody* I know has any plans to commute to the city for the rest of this year. They are just being crushed. There's next to no tourism there now. Broadway is dark until January at the earliest, and that will likely get bumped as well.

This virus is just incredibly contagious indoors. I just a story about the lifeguards on Long Beach Island, which is a little over an hour to the south of me. 26 lifeguards on the island have tested positive. You'd think....that should be easy. Lifeguards work outside. They were provided with "PPE packs" with hand sanitizer, masks, gloves...etc. But....lifeguards are young for the most part. Typically they are high school and college kids. And what does that cohort do when they're not working? They party together, which is what this group did. All cases linked to parties on July 12th and 14th.

That's exactly what will happen when we open schools. And things will further spread if we continue to open up indoor dining and things like that as it gets colder.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

These things were supposed to be the "bridge" from April to July. But the bridge wasn't long enough because we didn't tackle the virus as a nation.

I respectfully disagree. I have never been under the impression that what you spoke of was a bridge for just april to july; how could it have been when no one knew how long we would be with this virus? It was temporary relief yes but not one designed to make things as they were before. How long did it take us to recover from the Recession? There was a stimulus then but it was not a bridge, just a bit of additional help. No one was going to suddenly recover after getting their stimulus back in 2008 same for now.

I also respectfully disagree with you saying "the bridge wasn't long enough because we didn't tackle the virus as a nation." The virus does what it wants to do. Have you not seen how nations who do have a national effort still have issues? Or have it under control for a while then resurgence occurs? The entire global economy is affected. We can and should have done better but that doesn't mean that it PPP, unemployment, etc was supposed to take people's financial woes away. Again it was just an additional help. They were talking about it in March about additional payments over time.

While some things would be better to be national that doesn't correlate to a bridge being long enough to tackle a virus none of us have ever experienced, is so contagious, and is evident it is difficult to contain forever (as is the case when you see countries have resurgences). There are countries out there that have national efforts and still experience issues. We're not alone in that. We may just be worse at it than other countries no denying that.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

You didn't ask me, but it's not viable economically. As it is, the PPP money is running out, unemployment is going off a cliff as well. These things were supposed to be the "bridge" from April to July. But the bridge wasn't long enough because we didn't tackle the virus as a nation.

NYC is going to be in a 25-50% mode for the foreseeable future. We're about a 60 minute train ride to the city (shorter by ferry). And *nobody* I know has any plans to commute to the city for the rest of this year. They are just being crushed. There's next to no tourism there now. Broadway is dark until January at the earliest, and that will likely get bumped as well.

This virus is just incredibly contagious indoors. I just a story about the lifeguards on Long Beach Island, which is a little over an hour to the south of me. 26 lifeguards on the island have tested positive. You'd think....that should be easy. Lifeguards work outside. They were provided with "PPE packs" with hand sanitizer, masks, gloves...etc. But....lifeguards are young for the most part. Typically they are high school and college kids. And what does that cohort do when they're not working? They party together, which is what this group did. All cases linked to parties on July 12th and 14th.

That's exactly what will happen when we open schools. And things will further spread if we continue to open up indoor dining and things like that as it gets colder.

Thank you for answering. I agree with everything you said (and yes, had read about the lifeguards). I wish there was a path forward that solved all problems. NY has done such a great job getting it under control, I’d hate to see that lost. But I’m not sure a “return to stage 1” is a viable option long term. CA is grappling with that right now. It would certainly help the numbers here, but I don’t know if it’s the right answer in the larger picture. Especially since our high risk places are all closed again. But they haven’t been able to stop the private social gatherings that are creating the spread now. Not to mention the lag time in test results, which is inexcusable to me.

But I guess with everything, time will tell, right? I’m sure the powers that be are all looking at the scenarios that lie ahead with the change in weather.

 

[kymom99]

I posted about my son’s work closing yesterday. My friend’s husband is a manager at another store. She told me they closed to deep clean. Not sure if it was positive or presumed. He went to work today. I haven’t heard anymore.

 

[dvcgirl67]

[QUOTE="Heigh-Ho, post: 62169421, member: 667782"

I also respectfully disagree with you saying "the bridge wasn't long enough because we didn't tackle the virus as a nation." The virus does what it wants to do. Have you not seen how nations who do have a national effort still have issues? Or have it under control for a while then resurgence occurs? The entire global economy is affected. We can and should have done better but that doesn't mean that it PPP, unemployment, etc was supposed to take people's financial woes away. Again it was just an additional help. They were talking about it in March about additional payments over time.

While some things would be better to be national that doesn't correlate to a bridge being long enough to tackle a virus none of us have ever experienced, is so contagious, and is evident it is difficult to contain forever (as is the case when you see countries have resurgences). There are countries out there that have national efforts and still experience issues. We're not alone in that. We may just be worse at it than other countries no denying that.
[/QUOTE]

Well, there's no disputing that as the wealthiest nation in the world that was supposed to have the greatest healthcare in the world, that we have failed. The response has been an utter catastrophe. It's not even up for debate. It's obvious. And I also agree that those programs were not put in place forever, but the response so was incredibly lacking in any cohesiveness, that we forfeited any shot we had at crushing the curve nationally, and then opening up slowly and "putting out embers" here and there. We can't do that like they are in many places in Europe because we're still in the middle of a raging forest first.

Our testing is so bad, so delayed with bottlenecks of supplies for the tests back in the news again. Contact tracing isn't possible with such delays in testing. And many people aren't answering questions from tracers when they are contacted because......freedom. So, as long as we continue to be this incredibly stupid as a nation, we're going to live in this "inbetween" of kind of open, but kind of closed. The nation will not move beyond this until the people feel safe. And the people don't feel safe.

But...if you want to go there and say that we just need to learn to live with this and move beyond that. If even *that* had been their message, say back in April when we were all at home literally doing nothing but watching the news, well, maybe that would have helped. But, the message from the administration was "we're over it, so you should be too.....liberate Michgan, liberate Virginia!!" Or something to that effect.

Sooooo much wasted time and opportunity. They wasted the entire month of February. Close the border to China, then did *nothing*. Literally nothing. Closed the country down from mid-march to may....and did nothing. They were completely reactionary. Then we collectively spent 6 weeks at home in the spring. But nobody was planning or talking about the road ahead. Just putting out fires from minute to minute. And that's part of it, but only a part. They kept us in the dark, renewing their "15 days to slow the spread" deal, every 2 weeks like we're all children. What we all wanted....what we all needed, was for them to be honest with us. But they weren't. All of the sudden the experts that we saw on a daily basis went dark. And so states, cities, towns, school districts, businesses, and households all were left to literally figure it out on their own.

And we're still in that space, with no national message. And it's too late for that anyway. Most of us don't trust the administration to do the right thing now. It's all about the election, and we all know it. The fallout from here economically isn't going to be great. Because, let's face it, the party in charge are getting a little nervous now. And so they're beginning to morph ever so slowly back into their previous forms....whatever they looked like circa 2012. All of the sudden they all care very much about deficits, government spending, and even public health. It's so predictable that it's laugh out loud funny. Just because they decide it's time to pull the plug, well, that doesn't mean that jobs exist for those people....or.....that everyone will go back to work if they are. People don't feel safe. And anyone who can stay home will, and some who can't afford it will too. They're going to pull the plug on support for Americans at exactly the wrong time. They're over it. Move on, go back to work, we have to move forward as a country. And many millions of Americans are at home, watching, thinking....ok, you go first.

And so begins the next fun chapter.

 

[TLSnell1981]

...

I posted about my son’s work closing yesterday. My friend’s husband is a manager at another store. She told me they closed to deep clean. Not sure if it was positive or presumed. He went to work today. I haven’t heard anymore.

They would have been closed and told to quarantine by the health department if it was necessary.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Well, there's no disputing that as the wealthiest nation in the world that was supposed to have the greatest healthcare in the world, that we have failed. The response has been an utter catastrophe. It's not even up for debate. It's obvious. And I also agree that those programs were not put in place forever, but the response so was incredibly lacking in any cohesiveness, that we forfeited any shot we had at crushing the curve nationally, and then opening up slowly and "putting out embers" here and there. We can't do that like they are in many places in Europe because we're still in the middle of a raging forest first.

Our testing is so bad, so delayed with bottlenecks of supplies for the tests back in the news again. Contact tracing isn't possible with such delays in testing. And many people aren't answering questions from tracers when they are contacted because......freedom. So, as long as we continue to be this incredibly stupid as a nation, we're going to live in this "inbetween" of kind of open, but kind of closed. The nation will not move beyond this until the people feel safe. And the people don't feel safe.

But...if you want to go there and say that we just need to learn to live with this and move beyond that. If even *that* had been their message, say back in April when we were all at home literally doing nothing but watching the news, well, maybe that would have helped. But, the message from the administration was "we're over it, so you should be too.....liberate Michgan, liberate Virginia!!" Or something to that effect.

Sooooo much wasted time and opportunity. They wasted the entire month of February. Close the border to China, then did *nothing*. Literally nothing. Closed the country down from mid-march to may....and did nothing. They were completely reactionary. Then we collectively spent 6 weeks at home in the spring. But nobody was planning or talking about the road ahead. Just putting out fires from minute to minute. And that's part of it, but only a part. They kept us in the dark, renewing their "15 days to slow the spread" deal, every 2 weeks like we're all children. What we all wanted....what we all needed, was for them to be honest with us. But they weren't. All of the sudden the experts that we saw on a daily basis went dark. And so states, cities, towns, school districts, businesses, and households all were left to literally figure it out on their own.

And we're still in that space, with no national message. And it's too late for that anyway. Most of us don't trust the administration to do the right thing now. It's all about the election, and we all know it. The fallout from here economically isn't going to be great. Because, let's face it, the party in charge are getting a little nervous now. And so they're beginning to morph ever so slowly back into their previous forms....whatever they looked like circa 2012. All of the sudden they all care very much about deficits, government spending, and even public health. It's so predictable that it's laugh out loud funny. Just because they decide it's time to pull the plug, well, that doesn't mean that jobs exist for those people....or.....that everyone will go back to work if they are. People don't feel safe. And anyone who can stay home will, and some who can't afford it will too. They're going to pull the plug on support for Americans at exactly the wrong time. They're over it. Move on, go back to work, we have to move forward as a country. And many millions of Americans are at home, watching, thinking....ok, you go first.

And so begins the next fun chapter.

There's a lot I can respond to but I was specifically talking about your comment regarding the PPP, the additional $600 and the stimulus payment as a result of your comment of it supposed to be a bridge between april and july. Most of your response to my comment feels like you're letting off some steam and venting for which I don't blame you for that vent away we all need it right now from time to time and for sure during this whole mess.

 

[montreid]

Well, there's no disputing that as the wealthiest nation in the world that was supposed to have the greatest healthcare in the world, that we have failed. The response has been an utter catastrophe.
[/QUOTE]
We jettisoned our biggest strength and advantage over every other country -- we're the industrial juggernaut of UNITED STATES -- and we sidelined it. We divided. House divided against a virus.

Unless we bring together the full force of the UNITED STATES, we will continue to struggle to find a cohesive way forward.