GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[roomthreeseventeen]

Comparing NJ to KY is pointless. KY had four months' notice not to end up in the mess we did in the Northeast. They ignored it.

 

[kdonnel]

Just False.

So you are saying that vaccines don't work?

Tell that to all the people saved by vaccines.

Herd immunity is how vaccines work. If you get the Rt down to less then 1 a virus dies out. If each sick person infects less then one other person there is no spread.

You get to herd immunity either through infection or vaccinations. I believe that might be one of very few facts not in dispute in the scientific community.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

So you are saying that vaccines don't work?

Tell that to all the people saved by vaccines.

Herd immunity is how vaccines work. If you get the Rt down to less then 1 a virus dies out. If each sick person infects less then one other person there is no spread.

You get to herd immunity either through infection or vaccinations. I believe that might be one of very few facts not in dispute in the scientific community.

What folks are saying is that so far, it seems the natural COVID anti-bodies don't last very long. So the vaccine is going to have to do better.

 

[Searc]

Florida is 100% lying about COVID related deaths.

Yep.

 

[kymom99]

Comparing NJ to KY is pointless. KY had four months' notice not to end up in the mess we did in the Northeast. They ignored it.

What on earth are you talking about?? I’ve been with you and your posts up until now. Our rate is still under 5% positive. We kept the curve flat up until now.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

What on earth are you talking about?? I’ve been with you and your posts up until now. Our rate is still under 5% positive. We kept the curve flat up until now.

That's great. KY is doing much better than a lot of other southern states.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Just False.

What is false?

 

[Searc]

Not necessarily that options are better now, but more so that we have a (slightly) better understanding of how to treat certain patients. Still a lot of just hoping and praying. Otherwise, we wouldn't have as many deaths as we continue to have.



Just False.

I love when people post links without reading them.

The pertinent paragraphs from the link that disprove what he's trying to claim ~

However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn't yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

You have what inside information to know this? Lol, keep on screaming the sky is falling.....

No need for any inside information. They've been caught playing games several times along with a few other states. To this day, Floirda counts deaths of non residents on a separate line that you have to go find and add in yourself. We're hearing and seeing and they're reporting 4,982. Well it's not 4982. It's 5,091 when you add in the non residents. Several states, including Florida, are not counting their probables in their death counts either. And note a probable is someone that has tested positive but has not been verified. I must note that I'm not talking the difference between 5,000 and 20,000 here. But skim 100 off here, a couple of hundred off there, and it adds up a bit. And every state missed some of the early deaths.

So you are saying that vaccines don't work?

Tell that to all the people saved by vaccines.

Herd immunity is how vaccines work. If you get the Rt down to less then 1 a virus dies out. If each sick person infects less then one other person there is no spread.

You get to herd immunity either through infection or vaccinations. I believe that might be one of very few facts not in dispute in the scientific community.

Just because someone thinks your herd immunity post doesn't square with the facts does not mean they don't believe in vaccines. Vaccines work by training the body to recognize and react to a specific disease. Herd immunity is the RESULT of vaccination. And most experts would put the threshold at about a lot more than 40 for genuine herd immunity. Getting back to Covid, we don't have a vaccine. And given our population, to achieve even 50% immunity would result in 2.5 million deaths under the rosiest of rosy scenarios. That was assuming that only 50% would actually get it, everyone that got it (and lived) would be immune, and that case fatality rates would fall to predicted levels immediately rather than stay where they are or gradually fall. Realistically it would be more. Scary scenario? Over Ten million. All for just 50% immunity that we don't even know how long it will even last yet. Failure on that scale is simply not an option.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's great. KY is doing much better than a lot of other southern states.

So then why did you say Kentucky "ignored it"? Of course you don't say what "it" is.
Here's your statement again just to refresh your memory...

Comparing NJ to KY is pointless. KY had four months' notice not to end up in the mess we did in the Northeast. They ignored it.

And didn't everyone have the same "notice"?

 

[onatrek]

Very amazing time lapse map (you can view it on 'fast' or 'slow' settings) to see the number of positive cases per million residents by county change.

It's really remarkable!

https://www.corona-per-capita.com/v...oe-Qc00elXBBSsErC8V7b4FqUzSSQue__duLeAzcCmWrs
Plus you can view by state, as well.

 

[Cramden]

So then why did you say Kentucky "ignored it"? Of course you don't say what "it" is.
Here's your statement again just to refresh your memory...


And didn't everyone have the same "notice"?

Nope. New York was being seeding from thousands of travelers coming into JFK from Europe for up to two months before the Government enacted the European Travel Ban. The rest of the country got to learn how to treat more effectively and reduce the spread from their misfortune.

 

[kdonnel]

Just because someone thinks your herd immunity post doesn't square with the facts does not mean they don't believe in vaccines. Vaccines work by training the body to recognize and react to a specific disease. Herd immunity is the RESULT of vaccination. And most experts would put the threshold at about a lot more than 40 for genuine herd immunity. Getting back to Covid, we don't have a vaccine. And given our population, to achieve even 50% immunity would result in 2.5 million deaths under the rosiest of rosy scenarios. That was assuming that only 50% would actually get it, everyone that got it (and lived) would be immune, and that case fatality rates would fall to predicted levels immediately rather than stay where they are or gradually fall. Realistically it would be more. Scary scenario? Over Ten million. All for just 50% immunity that we don't even know how long it will even last yet. Failure on that scale is simply not an option.

Vaccines work because of herd immunity. Without herd immunity vaccines would not protect society.

Each year when I get the flu shot I am not only protecting myself but those who do not get the flu shot. Some of the people who get the flu shot don't even get protected by the shot itself. They end up protected because of herd immunity. That is ultimately how vaccines work.

By the CDC estimate there have been 38,862,780 Americans infected with the coronavirus resulting in 143,226 deaths. Thus far an overall CFR of .36%. That number is right in line with their planning estimates.

Assuming 164,000,000 Americans (roughly 50% of the population) needs to get infected OR be vaccinated to reach herd immunity that means we need another 125,000,000. Even if we assume all 125,000,000 get infected at the current CFR that is another 450,000 deaths. No where near 2.5 million, no where near over 10 million.

The sky is not falling.

The end of the world is not near.

This is a manageable disease.

 

[montreid]

Smaller and more rural states will have more traditional hot spots rising up and if no robust surveillance or prevention spread measures in place, the horse literally gets out of the barn before you can respond. A good case study is Albany ga..Dougherty county. It started with just two cases and two funerals and exploded from there. All it takes is a little match to a whole lot of fire Kindle to get this virus going. That's the challenge for rural cities. Testing and tracing fast. If you have large groups together....mask and distance to minimize spread and allow tracing and isolation to happen.

For large areas like Miami Dade already out of control, concerted coordinated measures needed to cap this and get back down. My colleagues in JMH are exhausted already and this hasn't peaked on hospitals yet for at least another two weeks if the reported cases are.truly stabilizing for two weeks.....remember it takes many hospitalizations two plus weeks duration so utilization will remain high for awhile

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

This is a manageable disease.

"One out of five patients are going to get a severe form of the disease."

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Nope. New York was being seeding from thousands of travelers coming into JFK from Europe for up to two months before the Government enacted the European Travel Ban. The rest of the country got to learn how to treat more effectively and reduce the spread from their misfortune.

For sure NY got hit hard because of international travelers, but they weren’t the only state without warning. The West Coast had ZERO warning and had flights coming from Mainland China. Before the ban, SFO alone had 90 flights a week from Mainland China.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Here goes that "our state is better than your state" thing again.

Let's look at some stats:
NJ
Total Cases: 182,936
Deaths: 15,776
Cases /mil: 20,596
Deaths/mil: 1,776

KY
Total Cases: 22,184
Deaths: 667
Cases /mil: 4,965
Deaths/mil: 149

Yes, Kentucky has seen a rise in cases over the last week, but I'm still hoping our mask ordinance (went into effect a week ago) will bring those numbers down.

I never said "our state is better than your state" Sam....didn't say that. We all know that the NY/NJ/CT metro area got slammed. I mean honestly, you're going to blame the largest metro area in the nation for getting hit very early on with a disease that we barely understood?

I sincerely hope every other state does *way* better than we did with respect to cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

I would just like to see a bit more effort on some of the leaders and citizens of those states.

 

[anthony2k7]

So you are saying that vaccines don't work?

Tell that to all the people saved by vaccines.

Herd immunity is how vaccines work. If you get the Rt down to less then 1 a virus dies out. If each sick person infects less then one other person there is no spread.

You get to herd immunity either through infection or vaccinations. I believe that might be one of very few facts not in dispute in the scientific community.

But many "facts" surrounding all this are still in dispute. Like whether re-infection is possible with covid.

Heres just one example. If re infection is possible, forget herd immunity. Basically forget a viable vaccine as well.

If re-infection isn't a thing then the other explanation of these people is that perhaps many or even no one ever really gets over covid fully.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284446561011937280

 

[dvcgirl67]

But many "facts" surrounding all this are still in dispute. Like whether re-infection is possible with covid.

Heres just one example. If re infection is possible, forget herd immunity. Basically forget a viable vaccine as well.

If re-infection isn't a thing then the other explanation of these people is that perhaps many or even no one ever really gets over covid fully.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284446561011937280

Yes...the "facts" keep changing. There are at least two studies I've seen where immunity lasts just 2-3 months in some people who have been infected
.

 

[anthony2k7]

This is another tweet by Dr Eric that needs some attention...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284970848277991426