GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[GreatLakes]

It's easier in the suburbs probably, where you're not taking public transportation.

Public transportation is one of the things I think should be shut down until a much later phase. It is useless to have social distancing and then pack people into subway cars and buses.

The real damage is all the younger people are the supermarket cashiers, restaurant cooks, servers, hostesses, grocery store baggers, hair stylists, doctors'/dentist office staffs, hospital workers...all interacting with thousands of elders every day - beyond their own grandparents and family. That's what's truly scary.

This is why I think the not truly essential places like hair stylists should remain closed and the actually essential places should change their business model to have the least employee/customer interaction possible. The place I grocery shop allows you to scan and bag your items as you go, pay at an untended station, and leave the store without any interaction what so ever with anyone. Obviusly there are other people in there but no one is physically touching every single item I bought to bag them. If people all bagged their own groceries, provided they were physically able, it would cut down on any interaction. If restaurants were carry out only with minimal staff and let you pay in advance and get your food without physical interaction that is one less contact point.

There are ways to still conduct essential business and mitigate the stranger interactions and it probably needs to happen at least another few months if not into 2021.

Disney should definitly not open and neither should any other theme/amusement park. Cedar Point as an example should just open for 2021. That is really the only safe option.

All of this will be hard but it is the right thing to do. Short term sacrifice for a long term better outcome. Jobs come and go, the economy cycles, death is forever.

 

[tippity]

AIDS isn't a virus. HIV is.

Thanks

 

[tippity]

The less virulent thing is um, not true.

Sorry, but you don't know that. Nor does anyone else. Are the treatments solely responsible for increased lifespan or has the virus adapted? Or is it both?

 

[DLgal]

This is why I think the not truly essential places like hair stylists should remain closed and the actually essential places should change their business model to have the least employee/customer interaction possible. The place I grocery shop allows you to scan and bag your items as you go, pay at an untended station, and leave the store without any interaction what so ever with anyone. Obviusly there are other people in there but no one is physically touching every single item I bought to bag them. If people all bagged their own groceries, provided they were physically able, it would cut down on any interaction. If restaurants were carry out only with minimal staff and let you pay in advance and get your food without physical interaction that is one less contact point.

Don't most supermarkets have self checkout these days? Even Target and Wal Mart have this. I haven't had an interaction with a checker or bagger in 3 months.

And I'm sorry, but hairstylists and barbers need to be open. People can't go around looking all shaggy and unkempt forever. Some people still have to look professional for jobs, you know. I am finally getting a haircut tomorrow. Haven't been since February. My stylist owns and operates his salon and has altered his schedule to accommodate ONE client at a time in the building, that is it. Masks are required. Hand washing and a temperature check is required upon entry. Clients have to wait in their car until the previous client has left and the station has been disinfected. Styling tools are disinfected between clients, per state guidelines that existed before the pandemic. He is using disposable capes. I feel safer getting my hair cut than shopping in a supermarket or Costco with 100+ other people.

 

[DLgal]

Sorry, but you don't know that. Nor does anyone else. Are the treatments solely responsible for increased lifespan or has the virus adapted? Or is it both?

Virulence is actually a measurable characteristic. Scientists know and understand how to determine how virulent any given virus is, so yes, some people most certainly DO know that.

 

[wombat_5606]

But lung damage seen on CT scan doesn't always translate to functional issues. In a previously healthy individual, with completely healthy lungs pre infection, they are able to sustain a small amount of damage with no ill effects on quality of life. Lungs are "overbuilt", in that they are larger than they need to be, and can sustain a fair amount of thickening without compromising breathing ability.

That's great news. Time will tell.

 

[Christine]

Sorry, but you don't know that. Nor does anyone else. Are the treatments solely responsible for increased lifespan or has the virus adapted? Or is it both?

Well, that's what I was asking you (I know you didn't address your question to me). You made a claim that it's less virulent. I am not arguing that, I had just never heard that. But you said it like you knew that to be true. I'm not going to be a jerk and ask you to prove it; I'll look for myself. But you did make that claim. Another poster said it's not true. And now you say that no one knows that.

 

[sam_gordon]

This is why I think the not truly essential places like hair stylists should remain closed

OK, I'll bite. Did you read about the two hairdressers in Minnesota(?) who tested positive for COVID, had worked with customers WHILE they were positive and NO customers (of the 100+ IIRC) or other staff came down with it? Masks and other precautions were pointed to as the reason it didn't spread.

 

[GreatLakes]

OK, I'll bite. Did you read about the two hairdressers in Minnesota(?) who tested positive for COVID, had worked with customers WHILE they were positive and NO customers (of the 100+ IIRC) or other staff came down with it? Masks and other precautions were pointed to as the reason it didn't spread.

That's great for that one set of interactions. I still think things that won't result in death if not consumed should be closed. People will die without food and water or medical attention, no one will die without a haircut, tattoo, roller coaster ride, and so on. The less we open the less interaction we have the less spread there will be.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

That's great for that one set of interactions. I still think things that won't result in death if not consumed should be closed. People will die without food and water or medical attention, no one will die without a haircut, tattoo, roller coaster ride, and so on. The less we open the less interaction we have the less spread there will be.

So how to you propose these people support themselves while their businesses are closed? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you - I don't understand why any bars have reopened, but it's not as simple to keep everything closed as it sounds. People have to be able to support themselves - pay their rent, buy food, etc.

 

[wombat_5606]

So how to you propose these people support themselves while their businesses are closed? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you - I don't understand why any bars have reopened, but it's not as simple to keep everything closed as it sounds. People have to be able to support themselves - pay their rent, buy food, etc.

Instead of putting enormous amounts of cash into corporations that then they buy back stock, terminate employees or very soon after, file for bankruptcy and then use our money for golden parachutes, maybe we could give every American a few bucks to buy the necessities until we get the virus under control and safely re-open with a high percentage of compliance with safety protocols that will allow our economy to run on it's own.

 

[hsmamato2]

I have read all sorts of accounts, including several where people legitimately thought they just had allergies or a sinus infection because it was so mild. Not everyone with symptoms has it rough. My husband is working at Marine Corps boot camp right now and several recruits and staff members are infected, and have symptoms, but none have needed medical attention yet.

well that's a good thing for them..... our buddy who had it wasn't lucky enough to escape all the symptoms,however he was lucky enough to live....so there's that. I'm just saying it's a thing that tends to be overlooked a bit in the media, the actual effects of living through this....

 

[hsmamato2]

But lung damage seen on CT scan doesn't always translate to functional issues. In a previously healthy individual, with completely healthy lungs pre infection, they are able to sustain a small amount of damage with no ill effects on quality of life. Lungs are "overbuilt", in that they are larger than they need to be, and can sustain a fair amount of thickening without compromising breathing ability.

Ummmm...ok. Let's hope not in the long run for those affected.

 

[sam_gordon]

Instead of putting enormous amounts of cash into corporations that then they buy back stock, terminate employees or very soon after, file for bankruptcy and then use our money for golden parachutes, maybe we could give every American a few bucks to buy the necessities until we get the virus under control and safely re-open with a high percentage of compliance with safety protocols that will allow our economy to run on it's own.

Can you elaborate on how much the "few bucks" are? The $600 a week SOME have been getting for unemployment? A match to their salary before they were laid off? Something in between? More? Less?

 

[wombat_5606]

Can you elaborate on how much the "few bucks" are? The $600 a week SOME have been getting for unemployment? A match to their salary before they were laid off? Something in between? More? Less?

I don't have a dollar figure for you. The conversation around this includes providing x amount of dollars for someone's basic needs. It is not going to replace your income. It's going to be used to feed your family. It's going to help keep you in your home. It's going to help those people with no resources and prop up those who have some resources of their own without causing them to deplete those resources.

There are pros and cons. Some say the the cost of long term social service benefits for millions of people will be much higher than providing everyone with some form of payment.

Here's a couple of articles from a think tank with some food for thought. There are many others out there, depending on your opinion.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/andrew-yangs-moment-economic-costs-pandemic-mean-time-ubi-now
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/why-countries-are-giving-people-cash-amid-pandemic

 

[godisney14]

Do you know that not all viruses can mutate? Or which viruses are more prone to mutate, and why?
If not, then let’s try not to assume and make claims about this novel coronavirus. We wont be able to quantify or qualify it’s changes until much later.

It’s not optimal for the virus to kill the host because when the host dies, the virus dies. Many viruses naturally mutate over time to be less virulent because it’s in the best interest of the virus.

In simplistic terms, viruses mutate over time to evade the host immune system from recognizing the epitope of an antigen. Why do you think there’s been no successful vaccine for HIV? Has HIV become less of a problem? Or what about the seasonal coronaviruses, which is also a coronavirus

Actually in NYC, they had a higher death rate using ventilators and that's when re-positioning became preferable. Personally, I consider this whole Virus new, since it's not even 1 year old.

It is hypothesized that viruses are driven, like all living things, to survive. If a virus kills it's host, it isn't very successful. So it learns to avoid killing the host. AIDS is one example.

Same response as above.
Read up on what happened to the Zika virus before it hit America for another example.

But lung damage seen on CT scan doesn't always translate to functional issues. In a previously healthy individual, with completely healthy lungs pre infection, they are able to sustain a small amount of damage with no ill effects on quality of life. Lungs are "overbuilt", in that they are larger than they need to be, and can sustain a fair amount of thickening without compromising breathing ability.

That’s a pretty absurd claim as well. (Edit: not about the argument that lungs are “overbuilt.”)

What happens to Vo2max as you age?
Have you heard of EIAH? It also happens to non-athletes.

 

[cmp3400]

Or what about the seasonal flu, which is also a coronavirus

Do you have a link on this (that the flu is a coronavirus)? This was a hot topic in a conversation I was in and no one could find "proof".
Thanks

 

[godisney14]

Do you have a link on this (that the flu is a coronavirus)? This was a hot topic in a conversation I was in and no one could find "proof".
Thanks

My mistake. Meant to write seasonal viruses, such as the known coronaviruses, not specifically influenza. Very different.

 

[tippity]

Well, that's what I was asking you (I know you didn't address your question to me). You made a claim that it's less virulent. I am not arguing that, I had just never heard that. But you said it like you knew that to be true. I'm not going to be a jerk and ask you to prove it; I'll look for myself. But you did make that claim. Another poster said it's not true. And now you say that no one knows that.

Apologies. What I should have said is: this is a chicken or the egg argument. Viruses adapt to avoid killing the host.

Here's an article about HIV:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414815/

 

[Lumpy1106]

That's great for that one set of interactions. I still think things that won't result in death if not consumed should be closed. People will die without food and water or medical attention, no one will die without a haircut, tattoo, roller coaster ride, and so on. The less we open the less interaction we have the less spread there will be.

Wait, but if no COVID cases have been tied to any of these things, why would we keep them closed? Same goes for beaches and parks. I think there is a line where decisions to close things are being based on "misery loves company" rather than actual science. I for one, got my first haircut in over 3 months last week. I was the only one there and the hairdresser and I both wore masks. There was ZERO chance of either of us transmitting COVID. She seemed fine staying home and collecting her COVID check from the government (could be she was joking though). Personally, as a taxpayer and a guy who really needed a haircut, I'd rather pay her to cut my hair.