GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[jlwhitney]

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...tions-to-sars-cov-2-increase-transmissibility
Early reports are that that will not be an issue with COVID.

And nothing as pointed to it causing worst infections, if anything possibly less sever.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yes to the last part! Everyone seems to talk death rates as if there is nothing between perfectly fine and dead. I'd rather not have life long breathing issues, kidney issues, etc. and we don't know enough or hear enough about long-term complications yet to just breeze by a "low" death rate.

Completely agree. There's this false idea that you end up in 3 lanes with COVID-19. You don't know you even had it, you get "the flu", or you end up hospitalized and possibly dead. My cousin has COVID-19 right now and according to him, "this is the sickest I've ever been". He's going through the cycle of fevers now with serious night sweats, shortness of breath and serious fatigue. He's 28 and made a boneheaded move....went to Florida unnecesarily and is really regretting it now. I know of a lot of people now who have had COVID-19 at this point, they're either dead, were "the sickest they've ever been" (7 people like that), or completely asymptomatic (all college kids of friends). We're still learning so much about this disease and I think it's premature to say that those people who are younger, get a bad case of it, and survive....won't have possible longer term ramifications to their health.

 

[NotGrumpyButPrettyClose]

And nothing as pointed to it causing worst infections, if anything possibly less sever.

I'm certainly hoping that it stays that way! But I'm going to prepare for the worst, just in case. The newspaper articles/editorials from late 1918 to early 1919 describe how the populace let down their guard after the initial outbreak subsided in the Summer of 1918. Because the virus is continually mutating as it passes from person to person, we won't know that it has become more lethal or more benign without the passage of time.

The silver lining was that after the 1918 Spanish flu outbreak finally ended, most economists agree that it gave birth to the Roaring Twenties.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I know the virus is not going away, it's always out there. I guess I'm just a little angry that people are behaving recklessly and allowing communities be "overseeded" with the virus so that it makes it very difficult for everyone else to safely get out there and just do their business. It doesn't have to be that way: One group gets to party and everyone over 50 feels like they have to hide in the house? There's a way for everyone to be able to get out.

Yup, I feel exactly the same way. We're 52 and 51 here and while my husband does have mild asthma, he's very fit. I have no underlying conditions. But I think Dr. Birx said something about this disease affects you as you get older....on a sliding scale. It's not like you turn 65 and *voila* you get a bad case of COVID-19. And since a pretty big cohort of adults refuses to wear a mask, lots of us in the 50s and up group will continue to only partially participate in the economy. And those of us who are 50 and up...typically have more money than those who are younger than us. And so, because we can't all act like responsible adults and do the most minor of things....wear a mask, this economy will not be able to fully recover. It's such a shame.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Completely agree. There's this false idea that you end up in 3 lanes with COVID-19. You don't know you even had it, you get "the flu", or you end up hospitalized and possibly dead. My cousin has COVID-19 right now and according to him, "this is the sickest I've ever been". He's going through the cycle of fevers now with serious night sweats, shortness of breath and serious fatigue. He's 28 and made a boneheaded move....went to Florida unnecesarily and is really regretting it now. I know of a lot of people now who have had COVID-19 at this point, they're either dead, were "the sickest they've ever been" (7 people like that), or completely asymptomatic (all college kids of friends). We're still learning so much about this disease and I think it's premature to say that those people who are younger, get a bad case of it, and survive....won't have possible longer term ramifications to their health.

This mirrors a lot of what I've seen. Younger people may not end up hospitalized, but unable to do much of anything physical, like climbing stairs, months later.

 

[NotGrumpyButPrettyClose]

Completely agree. There's this false idea that you end up in 3 lanes with COVID-19. You don't know you even had it, you get "the flu", or you end up hospitalized and possibly dead. My cousin has COVID-19 right now and according to him, "this is the sickest I've ever been". He's going through the cycle of fevers now with serious night sweats, shortness of breath and serious fatigue. He's 28 and made a boneheaded move....went to Florida unnecesarily and is really regretting it now. I know of a lot of people now who have had COVID-19 at this point, they're either dead, were "the sickest they've ever been" (7 people like that), or completely asymptomatic (all college kids of friends). We're still learning so much about this disease and I think it's premature to say that those people who are younger, get a bad case of it, and survive....won't have possible longer term ramifications to their health.

I've been reading the scientific research papers that have been published in the last two weeks on the structure of the virus and it certainly helps to explain a lot of the varying symptoms in those who test positive for the virus. The scientists who study viruses, both here in the US and abroad, have never encountered a virus particle with so many proteins for cleaving a cell's outer membrane and for evading/disabling cellular defense mechanisms.

 

[AndreaA]

You lose all credibility as soon as you say this is nothing worse than the flu.
What you are really saying is you want *your* life to go back to normal but the vulnerable need to be kept at home so you aren't inconvenienced.

It’s not me saying it’s nothing worse than the flu, it’s statistics. I didn’t make up the numbers from the CDC. No, we don’t know what long-term consequences might be, which is why people should still remain cautious (which I said in my first post) but they probably don’t need to be freaking out as if the world is ending when they see someone who isn’t being as cautious as they are, or read numbers that, even when true, are clearly played up for ratings. I mean I see only stories about the states where there are surging numbers. Where are all the stories about states like mine, or NY, or the rest of the NorthEast, where numbers are looking quite good.

I’m not sure what you‘re even referring to when you say “going back to “your” life. I pretty specifically stated that people should still be taking precautions, so... For example, I sure as hell wouldn’t be going to Disney in July.

”The Vulnerable” need to be protected during EVERY serious illness - including the seasonal flu - so I’m not sure why you would be offended at that idea.

When it gets right down to it, YES, if you are that vulnerable, then STAY HOME. I mean why would you risk going out? Even If mask wearing was 100%, it’s still not 100% effective. That doesn’t mean that everything else should be closed forever (or until a vaccine is created, whichever comes first). I mean people need to eat. People need to work. Businesses need customers to survive. If that means that ”The Vulnerable” have to stay home in order to be safe, then I guess that’s what has to happen. Your alternative suggestion seems to be that because a small sub-set of the population is particularly affected by this virus, everyone else should also remain shuttered in their homes, or something. Oh, and by the way I would consider myself one of “The Vulnerable” and am taking proper precautions because of that. I don’t expect the rest of the world to stop because I need to protect myself and my family.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

It’s not me saying it’s nothing worse than the flu, it’s statistics. I didn’t make up the numbers from the CDC. No, we don’t know what long-term consequences might be, which is why people should still remain cautious (which I said in my first post) but they probably don’t need to be freaking out as if the world is ending when they see someone who isn’t being as cautious as they are, or read numbers that, even when true, are clearly played up for ratings. I mean I see only stories about the states where there are surging numbers. Where are all the stories about states like mine, or NY, or the rest of the NorthEast, where numbers are looking quite good.

I’m not sure what you‘re even referring to when you say “going back to “your” life. I pretty specifically stated that people should still be taking precautions, so... For example, I sure as hell wouldn’t be going to Disney in July.

”The Vulnerable” need to be protected during EVERY serious illness - including the seasonal flu - so I’m not sure why you would be offended at that idea.

When it gets right down to it, YES, if you are that vulnerable, then STAY HOME. I mean why would you risk going out? Even If mask wearing was 100%, it’s still not 100% effective. That doesn’t mean that everything else should be closed forever (or until a vaccine is created, whichever comes first). I mean people need to eat. People need to work. Businesses need customers to survive. If that means that ”The Vulnerable” have to stay home in order to be safe, then I guess that’s what has to happen. Your alternative suggestion seems to be that because a small sub-set of the population is particularly affected by this virus, everyone else should also remain shuttered in their homes, or something.

I have a friend who runs marathons. He had no symptoms of COVID, can't walk up the two stairs to his house, and has antibodies, months later. That's worse than the flu.

 

[AndreaA]

so ... how do you propose we “protect our most vulnerable“? And ... “nothing more than the flu“? We really don’t know what the long term effects of this virus are, there are reports of it compromising various organs in the body, etc. Just wondering what your thoughts are on these ... thanks.

Well I am speaking particularly of those in long term care facilities, because in my area (and around the country) that is where the largest percentage of deaths have occurred. I cannot remember the specific ratio, but I believe it was something like 40% of deaths are falling on the .4% of the population that is in long term care facilities.

Clearly those who live there aren’t the ones bringing the virus in, so those who work there should be more stringently screened. I mean maybe the workers need to go through a two week quarantine, work for a month (while still basically quarantining) and then go off for a week, then repeat, and cycle with all the workers. Having had relatives in such facilities, I know that there actually AREN’T a lot of healthcare workers in a lot of them. Obviously some government funding to support the workers while in quarantine and between “shifts” would need to be provided. Facilities need to completely separate residents. Most have at least two to a room. Ventilation needs to be improved as well.

It’s true that we don’t know what the long-term effects are - just as we NEVER know what long-term effects of new diseases are going to be. I’m certainly not advising that people just throw caution to the wind - especially depending upon where in the country you reside. However, new treatments have been emerging, and hopefully those will stem some of that. And some areas of the country simply have not been hard hit and/or have their outbreaks under control.

In my area, the vast majority of cases were in long term care facilities, and community transmission peaked very briefly and then fell to low double digits or single digits per day - even after re-opening the state. We are surrounded by states with similar numbers, with the exception of one, which is more populated, but has been seeing quickly declining numbers for over a month now. If that remains true, I’m certainly not going to advocate for kids to wear masks, for example, when school begins, but I hope to see more outdoor classroom space used, and possibly an alternate day schedule for attendance in order to keep social distancing as much as possible.

And of course, like everyone else, I hope that a vaccine will be available by early next year.

 

[AndreaA]

I have a friend who runs marathons. He had no symptoms of COVID, can't walk up the two stairs to his house, and has antibodies, months later. That's worse than the flu.

I’m talking about with regards to fatalities, which I thought was pretty clear since I said it right after mentioning all of those statistics. Obviously this isn’t a virus one should be holding parties for, as in the old “chickenpox” days.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I feel like there’s something at play here in Florida (especially central) and I’m not sure what, but it definitely deserves some deep diving into the data.

we’re spiking here. Granted, most of the Florida spike is due to the southeast part of the state but we’re spiking as well.

The age of those tested positive has dropped significantly so maybe that’s why our hospitals are not overrun. By the numbers our hospitals should be looking how they did in NYC but they don’t. Is it a less affected group being infected now? Most reputable experts say that the virus can’t have mutated in a meaningful way so quickly so it’s not that the virus is weaker. I’m personally very curious as to what is happening here.

I think there’s two groups here that aren’t complying and I do think they’re different. Group 1 is teens and early 20s who are naive and ignorant and feel invincible. Look, I’d like to say I would have been smarter when I was that age but I did some super dumb stuff that I look back on in horror. This is the group I’ve seen in what little I go out, not wearing masks and getting too close. Group 2 are the middle aged plus cohort screaming about freedoms. I haven’t seen this group in person but the internet tells me they’re out there. I don’t know how much group 2 is actually impacting things vs just being super loud.

Both groups are idiots but I have a lot less disdain for one of those groups.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I feel like there’s something at play here in Florida (especially central) and I’m not sure what, but it definitely deserves some deep diving into the data.

we’re spiking here. Granted, most of the Florida spike is due to the southeast part of the state but we’re spiking as well.

The age of those tested positive has dropped significantly so maybe that’s why our hospitals are not overrun. By the numbers our hospitals should be looking how they did in NYC but they don’t. Is it a less affected group being infected now? Most reputable experts say that the virus can’t have mutated in a meaningful way so quickly so it’s not that the virus is weaker. I’m personally very curious as to what is happening here.

I think there’s two groups here that aren’t complying and I do think they’re different. Group 1 is teens and early 20s who are naive and ignorant and feel invincible. Look, I’d like to say I would have been smarter when I was that age but I did some super dumb stuff that I look back on in horror. This is the group I’ve seen in what little I go out, not wearing masks and getting too close. Group 2 are the middle aged plus cohort screaming about freedoms. I haven’t seen this group in person but the internet tells me they’re out there. I don’t know how much group 2 is actually impacting things vs just being super loud.

Both groups are idiots but I have a lot less disdain for one of those groups.

The average age of a COVID patient in Florida is 35. Those people are less likely to be hospitalized. In New York, our issue was largely folks in nursing homes.

 

[Searc]

I feel like there’s something at play here in Florida (especially central) and I’m not sure what, but it definitely deserves some deep diving into the data.

we’re spiking here. Granted, most of the Florida spike is due to the southeast part of the state but we’re spiking as well.

The age of those tested positive has dropped significantly so maybe that’s why our hospitals are not overrun. By the numbers our hospitals should be looking how they did in NYC but they don’t. Is it a less affected group being infected now? Most reputable experts say that the virus can’t have mutated in a meaningful way so quickly so it’s not that the virus is weaker. I’m personally very curious as to what is happening here.

I think there’s two groups here that aren’t complying and I do think they’re different. Group 1 is teens and early 20s who are naive and ignorant and feel invincible. Look, I’d like to say I would have been smarter when I was that age but I did some super dumb stuff that I look back on in horror. This is the group I’ve seen in what little I go out, not wearing masks and getting too close. Group 2 are the middle aged plus cohort screaming about freedoms. I haven’t seen this group in person but the internet tells me they’re out there. I don’t know how much group 2 is actually impacting things vs just being super loud.

Both groups are idiots but I have a lot less disdain for one of those groups.

You forgot Group 3, the 60+ age bracket.

 

[TLSnell1981]

If only so many American weren't such selfish @#$% we could open up without an issue! But the whole "its my right to not wear a mask" crowd is killing that option. It so frustrating to me how easy it would be to do this right but we as a country just cant get past ourselves.

Please don't rely on a mask to prevent contracting/spreading the virus. Too many skip other very important precautions thinking a mask will protect them.

 

[wombat_5606]

I feel like there’s something at play here in Florida (especially central) and I’m not sure what, but it definitely deserves some deep diving into the data.

we’re spiking here. Granted, most of the Florida spike is due to the southeast part of the state but we’re spiking as well.

The age of those tested positive has dropped significantly so maybe that’s why our hospitals are not overrun. By the numbers our hospitals should be looking how they did in NYC but they don’t. Is it a less affected group being infected now? Most reputable experts say that the virus can’t have mutated in a meaningful way so quickly so it’s not that the virus is weaker. I’m personally very curious as to what is happening here.

I think there’s two groups here that aren’t complying and I do think they’re different. Group 1 is teens and early 20s who are naive and ignorant and feel invincible. Look, I’d like to say I would have been smarter when I was that age but I did some super dumb stuff that I look back on in horror. This is the group I’ve seen in what little I go out, not wearing masks and getting too close. Group 2 are the middle aged plus cohort screaming about freedoms. I haven’t seen this group in person but the internet tells me they’re out there. I don’t know how much group 2 is actually impacting things vs just being super loud.

Both groups are idiots but I have a lot less disdain for one of those groups.

I just ran the numbers from the Florida website. They say they have 138,567 cases as of today.

Of that number, 67% of the cases have been between the ages of 15 and 54 and that group has been responsible for 30% of all hospitalizations and 1% of the deaths.

If that age group can't adhere to the safety protocols, how do we ever get back to work? What company that employs people in that wide age group can sustain any level of business when they have employees home or hospitalized at any given moment?

If this age group can't get their act together, whether they believe the virus is going to kill them or not, I just don't see any semblance of sustained economic progress if those percentages aren't lowered by compliance in the short term.

 

[RamblingMad]

Over 10 thousand new cases in FL today. That blows my mind. Now, if these kids go home and visit with their parents and grandparents, you'll see spread into the old age groups. Now, those visits will probably make more sense around Thanksgiving and Christmas, but I don't see the virus only sticking around in the lower age group.

 

[gwynne]

Please don't rely on a mask to prevent contracting/spreading the virus. Too many skip other very important precautions thinking a mask will protect them.

The statistics seem to say otherwise. Masks work.
Masks plus social distancing plus hand washing/sanitizing is even better.
We can do this!

 

[Brett Wyman]

Please don't rely on a mask to prevent contracting/spreading the virus. Too many skip other very important precautions thinking a mask will protect them.

Well too many skip it ALL TOGETHER. Let's focus on those that don't wear them at all first as I can assure you they certainly aren't following any other precautions either.

The statistics seem to say otherwise. Masks work.
Masks plus social distancing plus hand washing/sanitizing is even better.
We can do this!

Its anecdotal but the case of the Supercuts beautician who was infected is a great example of masks working. He/she wore a mask AND a shield and saw 18 customers who ALSO wore masks while getting their hair cut. ZERO OF THE EIGHTEEN CONTRACTED COVID. Thats with an infected person in their faces!

 

[NotGrumpyButPrettyClose]

I’m talking about with regards to fatalities, which I thought was pretty clear since I said it right after mentioning all of those statistics. Obviously this isn’t a virus one should be holding parties for, as in the old “chickenpox” days.

I feel that this boils down to issues that share similar characteristics with using seatbelts while driving, smoking cigarettes in public places and texting/using smartphones while driving. It may be that more folks will begin to wear masks if jurisdictions decide to begin issuing citations.

 

[kymom99]

If only our leadership at the Federal level had lead with a message of mask wearing as our patriotic duty to protect each other, help stop the spread and thus enabling our economy to recover more easily, we would be in a different place today. I think back to times when Americans actually sacrificed for the good of our country, and I don't see that today. We are a selfish nations.

You know if he had said that and set an example, whether he decided to wear it in private, his followers would have gotten on board.