Grand Floridian shouldn’t allow non hotel guests

[Genie+]

I love Grand Flo though Poly is my overall favorite resort partly to due to all that is being discussed here. Poly is so much easier to get to TTC and 5 options to MK means easy pivot during those peak times.

Last year we took our trip the week before Christmas, this year we took it the week before Thanksgiving. December was bonkers. The few times we took the Resort Monorail they took 45+ minutes. Long lines and then stoppages. Forget trying to take VGF monorail to EP monorail most evenings, especially if there’s MVMCP or EP EEH.

We came to the conclusion to rely more on other transportation than Resort Monorail. In theory the Monorail is a big selling point of those resorts - it’s just to be avoided at certain times/dates.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I'm not saying to restrict anyone. Someone mentioned a lightning lane for getting on the monorail from GF as there is too long of a line.
As a way of making the lobby not as crowded all at once I simply asked if there would also be a lightning lane to exit at GF to cut down on the guests exiting at once. No idea how that would even be feasibly possible but just threw that out as less people at a location means less people trying to leave said location.

The biggest part of the issue is not that GF is overcrowded but that it is the last stop before MK.
You will have Contemporary, If someone gets on at TTC and finally Poly all getting on first making the monorail full.

I was the one who mentioned the lightning lane. The reason I brought up restrictions in my last post was because it seems like that is what most (rightfully imo) balk at. Adding a priority lane isn’t about restricting anyone so it should, in theory, be a net positive addition.

My point wasn’t necessarily about stopping crowds. I don’t think that’s possible as it goes against Disney’s goals that many have already mentioned here. So no, adding a lighting lane to exit at GF would probably be very complicated and not what Disney would want anyway. But the OPs point was general frustration as a paying guest and being treated equal to (actually less than, they are paying a lot of money to have the same experience as those just visiting) visitors. In adding a priority lane for transportation of on-property/ADR guests it at least removes some of the burden off of paying guests and puts in on visitors, which is how it should be. It’s a way to make the guest experience hopefully a little bit better and perhaps alleviate the frustrations of a busy lobby/resort during the busiest seasons.

And this isn’t a panacea to the issues. You’re right, being the last stop before MK is one of Grand Floridian’s biggest downfalls. During busy times, I actually think they should leave a cabin free on every, or atleast every other, monorail for Grand Floridian guests. There’s clearly different things they could to help, even marginally; the answer can’t always be, well, then don’t come then, as some have said.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not sure if people are considering just how much manpower, policing and effort it would be to even attempt to implement most of what has been mentioned. Disney these days (specifically mentioning these days as in the amount of visitors WDW gets) doesn't have time to check someone's ticket, someone's hotel reservation, etc as a pedestrian for entry into a specific line and certainly doesn't want to reduce overall capacity of their already limping along main transportation of the monorail just to have parts of it reserved for hotel guests. It doesn't take away the annoyance factor but it is what it is because it is what it is.

 

[mab2012]

The answer can't be to avoid staying at your fave resort...

But this begs the question... why is it your favourite resort if it is uncomfortably crowded and the transportation is inadequate?

I mean, you might have paid a lot to stay there, but you clearly didn't pay enough for exclusive access. (There are places that do that. I expect they cost a lot more than VGF.)

This all kind of sounds like buyer's remorse to me. "I paid a lot for something and now I'm mad that the thing I paid for isn't what I thought." That sucks, to be sure, but it doesn't mean that you have an inherent right to the thing you thought or hoped you were buying.

 

[Genie+]

Didn’t there used to be a ‘gold’ bus or something that looped the monorail resorts? Has that returned?

 

[tjkraz]

There were some years where you needed to show your room key to access the Resort Monorail at WDW back before the age of Magic Bands.

I have no recollection of that ever happening. If there are written accounts of how it was managed at the time (forum posts, blogs) would be curious to read.

As for the monorail, it's hard to hypothesize about the need for change without really understanding the system and its passenger flows. The theory is that the monorail is being overloaded due to guests coming to GF to see the gingerbread house, et al. Given the direction the train moves, you would have people coming from MK, Contemporary, TTC and Poly all riding that resorts monorail to the GF to view holiday decor. Well, if there really are an excessive number of people arriving via train, they should be freeing up a lot of capacity for more passengers to load at GF with every train that arrives.

If 100 people disembark from the resort monorail at the GF, it means there's space for 100 to get on. Things continue to flow.

If that's not happening, it makes me question other factors. Was it an Extended Evening Hours night or MVMCP? We're assuming that a couple hundred people loitering around the GF lobby means many were non guests. But it's a 1000 room hotel. It doesn't take a huge percent of actual resort guests headed to MK during the evening window to cause transportation to back-up. Adding more queues and scans isn't going to help the flow much if 80-90% of the riders are actually hotel guests. But the change in procedures will frustrate many people, both guests and non-guests.

The closed walking path between Poly and GF is undoubtedly a huge issue. One that may be resolved in about 2 weeks. If people really are riding the monorail to tour decor (or coming over for a meal, etc), walking from Poly to GF is a very easy trek. But it hasn't been available for more than a year.

At the times in question, there may have been unplanned problems with the express monorail which caused traffic to spike for the resort monorail.

I'm unclear how we're even judging the ratio of guests to non-guests. Yes, the lobby is busier during the holidays. But a big portion of that increase is probably resort guests themselves, who have similar reasons to visit more often and spend more time in the lobby. I really hope it's not "I could tell they didn't belong here" or "I overheard a family talking about driving from Kissimmee."

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Similar to the Vegas strip. People walk in and out of Vegas hotels every day just to see them. Resort hopping at WDW is the same as walking the Vegas strip. It is part of the experience.

Correct which is why I mentioned Vegas specifically to another poster who tried to position it like people are weird for doing something that is quite commonplace elsewhere.

Bellagio's Conservatory and Botanical Gardens is one of the best examples of that located right by the lobby and definitely something people go to Bellagio for to take pictures and leave. It's almost always busy in the Bellagio lobby especially as if you walk off the street you have to go through the lobby to get to different parts of the hotel. Flamingo Hotel is another one where people go to look at the Flamingos, Wynn has a smaller attraction of their small carousel but also the Lake of Dreams show, New York, New York has their rides you can do, I could go on and on. I never thought that as a hotel guest of Bellagio that the Conservatory (which does seasonal displays) shouldn't be available for non-guests, neither have I thought that for Wynn with the Lake of Dreams show both of these places are among the most expensive on the Strip.

Vegas isn't the only place out there either but WDW does not have the corner market on visiting the grounds of different hotels just to peruse around. The hotels obviously hope you spend money while there but that doesn't take away from the fact that they promote, design and implement sights to see just to get you to their hotel.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Sorry need to ask. You believe because you own dvc you should have the right to use any other hotels amenities even when not staying at the hotel?

Just want to make sure I understand you

Because if that’s accurate, that’s beyond bonkers

You are literally not contributing $1 to those amenities if you are not redeeming your points there. What gives you the right to use something if you haven’t paid for it?

When you go to the movies do you buy a ticket to one movie and then go to all the other movies playing because you bought one ticket?

I think you missed the whole point of my post. It was ment to be satire.

 

[Genie+]

But this begs the question... why is it your favourite resort if it is uncomfortably crowded and the transportation is inadequate?

I mean, you might have paid a lot to stay there, but you clearly didn't pay enough for exclusive access. (There are places that do that. I expect they cost a lot more than VGF.)

This all kind of sounds like buyer's remorse to me. "I paid a lot for something and now I'm mad that the thing I paid for isn't what I thought." That sucks, to be sure, but it doesn't mean that you have an inherent right to the thing you thought or hoped you were buying.

If WDW serves wayyyyyy to many stringbeans as the vegetable on TS entrees, should I stop booking ADRs or give WDW feedback to take it easy on the stringbeans?

The repetitive stringbeans and transportation situation both impact value. I don’t think anybody’s out of line pointing this stuff out, and it’s unreasonable to just say don’t buy it because that is ultimately not good for the guest or the business. There are few businesses that do not continue adjusting their products based on perceived value and customer feedback. WDW has to decide what is and isn’t worth managing better.

 

[nuhusky123]

I think you missed the whole point of my post. It was ment to be satire.

Went right over my head

 

[nuhusky123]

Correct which is why I mentioned Vegas specifically to another poster who tried to position it like people are weird for doing something that is quite commonplace elsewhere.

Bellagio's Conservatory and Botanical Gardens is one of the best examples of that located right by the lobby and definitely something people go to Bellagio for to take pictures and leave. It's almost always busy in the Bellagio lobby especially as if you walk off the street you have to go through the lobby to get to different parts of the hotel. Flamingo Hotel is another one where people go to look at the Flamingos, Wynn has a smaller attraction of their small carousel but also the Lake of Dreams show, New York, New York has their rides you can do, I could go on and on. I never thought that as a hotel guest of Bellagio that the Conservatory (which does seasonal displays) shouldn't be available for non-guests, neither have I thought that for Wynn with the Lake of Dreams show both of these places are among the most expensive on the Strip.

Vegas isn't the only place out there either but WDW does not have the corner market on visiting the grounds of different hotels just to peruse around. The hotels obviously hope you spend money while there but that doesn't take away from the fact that they promote, design and implement sights to see just to get you to their hotel.

Casinos rely on foot traffic. Vegas hotels are mostly casinos and they want to draw gamblers in. Some have shows, food or other gimmicks to attract the punters but Vegas compete for eyeballs

Disney hotels are billed as resorts and they are not competing for eye balls.

Comparing the business model of a resort to a casino is apples to oranges

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Casinos rely on foot traffic. Vegas hotels are mostly casinos and they want to draw gamblers in. Some have shows, food or other gimmicks to attract the punters but Vegas compete for eyeballs

Disney hotels are billed as resorts and they are not competing for eye balls.

Comparing the business model of a resort to a casino is apples to oranges

With all due respect you need to re-read the quote that I was first quoting.

This is the quote from a different poster which I responded to with the Vegas reference.

"Which begs the question, where else other than WDW is it acceptable to go hang out in the lobby of a hotel you aren't staying at (or possibly eating/drinking at)? Think about it. It would just be weird, wouldn't it?"

It does not in ANY way matter what you believe some place relies on, it is simply not the case that WDW is the only place out there nor is it is a weird thing. People tend to think Disney is far more unique than it really is...it's not unique in every thing certainly not in the premise being discussed about hotel hopping around and influx of people not in the least is it unique in this.

 

[DisnEElove]

But this begs the question... why is it your favourite resort if it is uncomfortably crowded and the transportation is inadequate?

I mean, you might have paid a lot to stay there, but you clearly didn't pay enough for exclusive access. (There are places that do that. I expect they cost a lot more than VGF.)

This all kind of sounds like buyer's remorse to me. "I paid a lot for something and now I'm mad that the thing I paid for isn't what I thought." That sucks, to be sure, but it doesn't mean that you have an inherent right to the thing you thought or hoped you were buying.

Don't assume I want exclusive access, because I mention how I like the idea of "buzzing" resorts multiple times in my PP. You seem to think that staying-guest enjoyment and visitor access are mutually exclusive. There is no buyer's remorse. Have you never weighed the pros and cons? All of my fave resorts have pain points, and it's okay to share continuous improvement ideas to help soothe that pain a bit. And yes, I do have rights to what I thought I was buying -- it's all in the deed: A stay at my fave resort. As I stated before, until Disney changes amenities, I'd like to enjoy the amenities I am told are available to me as a paid guest there. Interesting that you mentioned "inherent rights" - because paying to stay at a resort and expecting that resort experience isn't an example of an inherent right. But this begs the question... Do you believe you have an inherent right to access everything unlimitedly for free?

 

[Marrila]

Casinos rely on foot traffic. Vegas hotels are mostly casinos and they want to draw gamblers in. Some have shows, food or other gimmicks to attract the punters but Vegas compete for eyeballs

Disney hotels are billed as resorts and they are not competing for eye balls.

Comparing the business model of a resort to a casino is apples to oranges

Disney resorts have destination dining and lots to see and do that varies with location.

Las Vegas hotels generally have very good restaurants, concerts or Broadway shows, or unique things to see like the Bellagio conservatory, as well as high end shopping and casinos.
Many Las Vegas visitors are not particularly interested in gambling.
It's not the old days on the 70's and 80's. Well, unless you are hanging out at the Flamingo.

 

[disneyseniors]

I have read this whole thread and I am saddened by the attitude by some that the Christmas lobby should not be available for non resort guests, or those people, heaven forbid, who go to see the beautiful Christmas displays at the GF and aren't paying guests!

The lobby of the GF has been promoted for as long as I have been going to WDW, since l977. It has always been open to all guests, and I imagine it will always be that way. Sure it's crowded, but it isn't like all the people are camping in the lobby or staying for hours on end, Not spending money.
Most people go the see the decorations and leave. Some actually "pay" for food or souvenirs while there, or book a room for later. So, some actually contribute money to the GF. But I would think most people just go to enjoy the GF displays. There is nothing wrong with that, IMO, and it should be open to everyone, whether or not the "pay". The people also resort hop to other resorts to see their displays too and there is no complaining that I am aware of.

The crowded lobby at Christmas has always been and those staying there have worked around it. They probably know when the big crowds are there and avoid those times, IDK.

However, the bus situation is horrible, and again, has always been bad for guests and others traveling on the monorails or buses. Disney needs to address this situation which has gotten out of hand over the years.

The decision to buy into DVC at the GF was a choice made. If the buyers weren't aware of the crowds, then I can see them being disappointed. Not everything can monetized. There are things that are free for all and that's the way it should be IMO.

I know this is not a popular opinion, so please don't flame me.

 

[Genie+]

I have read this whole thread and I am saddened by the attitude by some that the Christmas lobby should not be available for non resort guests, or those people, heaven forbid, who go to see the beautiful Christmas displays at the GF and aren't paying guests!

I don’t think most of these comments aren’t meaning it that way but rather where non-guest impact basically removes certain periods of time guests can partake in their resort amenities.

Say AoA decided to hold a low priced Disney Character dressed as Santa Meet and Greet every day from 8am to noon. Many AoA guests likely chose to pay higher rack rates so they could use the skyliner and enjoy the convenience of that popular foodcourt. But then everything is so congested in the mornings it is miserable to pop into the quick service for breakfast before hitting the parks, and the skyliner is so backed up uber makes more sense because time is money at WDW. Grand Flo is a similar scenario most evenings in December.

 

[DisnEElove]

I have no recollection of that ever happening. If there are written accounts of how it was managed at the time (forum posts, blogs) would be curious to read.

As for the monorail, it's hard to hypothesize about the need for change without really understating the system and its passenger flows. The theory is that the monorail is being overloaded due to guests coming to GF to see the gingerbread house, et al. Given the direction the train moves, you would have people coming from MK, Contemporary, TTC and Poly all riding that resorts monorail to the GF to view holiday decor. Well, if there really are an excessive number of people arriving via train, they should be freeing up a lot of capacity for more passengers to load at GF with every train that arrives.

If 100 people disembark from the resort monorail at the GF, it means there's space for 100 to get on. Things continue to flow.

If that's not happening, it makes me question other factors. Was it an Extended Evening Hours night or MVMCP? We're assuming that a couple hundred people loitering around the GF lobby means many were non guests. But it's a 1000 room hotel. It doesn't take a huge percent of actual resort guests headed to MK during the evening window to cause transportation to back-up. Adding more queues and scans isn't going to help the flow much if 80-90% of the riders are actually hotel guests. But the change in procedures will frustrate many people, both guests and non-guests.

The closed walking path between Poly and GF is undoubtedly a huge issue. One that may be resolved in about 2 weeks. If people really are riding the monorail to tour decor (or coming over for a meal, etc), walking from Poly to GF is a very easy trek. But it hasn't been available for more than a year.

At the times in question, there may have been unplanned problems with the express monorail which caused traffic to spike for the resort monorail.

I'm unclear how we're even judging the ratio of guests to non-guests. Yes, the lobby is busier during the holidays. But a big portion of that increase is probably resort guests themselves, who have similar reasons to visit more often and spend more time in the lobby. I really hope it's not "I could tell they didn't belong here" or "I overheard a family talking about driving from Kissimmee."

You bring up some good points. But the resort's sold out on July 4th typically when we're there and while the pools are insanely packed, it's not a hard time getting on a monorail. There are visitors to Poly and visitors to GF. Because GF is the last stop, it suffers the most.

I still think investing in running a separate monorail line for only Poly/GF/CR guests (and ADR) just between November 20th and Jan 1st would be good. Pipe dreams, but no harm in asking.

 

[mab2012]

If WDW serves wayyyyyy to many stringbeans as the vegetable on TS entrees, should I stop booking ADRs or give WDW feedback to take it easy on the stringbeans?

The repetitive stringbeans and transportation situation both impact value. I don’t think anybody’s out of line pointing this stuff out, and it’s unreasonable to just say don’t buy it because that is ultimately not good for the guest or the business. There are few businesses that do not continue adjusting their products based on perceived value and customer feedback. WDW has to decide what is and isn’t worth managing better.

Well, I might or might not choose to complain about the string beans. But either way, if Disney decided for whatever reason to continue to serve string beans, and that was a sticking point for me, then that restaurant probably wouldn't stay on my "favourites" list.

It's not a great analogy though, because your dislike of excessive string beans can be addressed without impacting anyone else's access to or enjoyment of the restaurant. OP did not say "transportation at GF is a problem that negatively impacted my stay and I wish Disney would do something to address it." I think that is a totally valid complaint. OP said (I'm paraphrasing): Disney should not allow the unwashed masses to enter the property at GF because I paid a lot to stay there and I expect exclusivity for my money. Is that a reasonable expectation? I suppose people can have differing opinions on that. But I don't think it's an expectation that Disney has set, so IMO it's something the consumer has to consider when deciding if the resort is really somewhere they want to stay.

 

[mab2012]

Don't assume I want exclusive access, because I mention how I like the idea of "buzzing" resorts multiple times in my PP. You seem to think that staying-guest enjoyment and visitor access are mutually exclusive. There is no buyer's remorse. Have you never weighed the pros and cons? All of my fave resorts have pain points, and it's okay to share continuous improvement ideas to help soothe that pain a bit. And yes, I do have rights to what I thought I was buying -- it's all in the deed: A stay at my fave resort. As I stated before, until Disney changes amenities, I'd like to enjoy the amenities I am told are available to me as a paid guest there. Interesting that you mentioned "inherent rights" - because paying to stay at a resort and expecting that resort experience isn't an example of an inherent right. But this begs the question... Do you believe you have an inherent right to access everything unlimitedly for free?

<sigh> You're reading a whole lot into my post that wasn't directed at you, specifically, but rather to the thread as a whole, which IS about exclusivity. There was a reason I limited my quote to the "favourite resort" part.

 

[nuhusky123]

Well, I might or might not choose to complain about the string beans. But either way, if Disney decided for whatever reason to continue to serve string beans, and that was a sticking point for me, then that restaurant probably wouldn't stay on my "favourites" list.

It's not a great analogy though, because your dislike of excessive string beans can be addressed without impacting anyone else's access to or enjoyment of the restaurant. OP did not say "transportation at GF is a problem that negatively impacted my stay and I wish Disney would do something to address it." I think that is a totally valid complaint. OP said (I'm paraphrasing): Disney should not allow the unwashed masses to enter the property at GF because I paid a lot to stay there and I expect exclusivity for my money. Is that a reasonable expectation? I suppose people can have differing opinions on that. But I don't think it's an expectation that Disney has set, so IMO it's something the consumer has to consider when deciding if the resort is really somewhere they want to stay.

You are putting words in my mouth. A number of posters have implied or overtly said this is about elitism. That’s grossly unfair

I paid for a product and I’m not getting access to that product because wdw is giving it away for free to others thereby reducing the value of my $ and enjoyment of that product

No one just has a right to go to gf or any wdw hotel because it’s a wdw hotel or because they went when they were five so now they have an inherited right as adults, that’s hogwash

This isn’t a communist country. We are a class based country and based on those values you get access to what you pay for

If you fly delta can you sit in first class if you buy an economy class ticket? No

If you buy a Honda civic but see a Mercedes g wagon in the grocery store parking lot are you allowed to swap cars? No

So why is it ok for people who have not paid for the gf amenities to use them at the cost of paid guests?